Topic: The real reason Taldren Closed it's offices in CA.

[Dash Jones]

In another thread, I've been disturbed at the out and out ignoring of what Taldren and Mr. Bethke stated as the reason why Taldren of CA of closed down.  Note, Taldren is NOT gone, it is now based in Korea.

Taldren of CA was closed down because they were contracted out to do a game called Black-9.  The company that contracted them to do it, didn't like what it saw.  The other company broke contract, and did not pay the contract breakage agreement.  Taldren, held out hoping the company would pay.  They did not.  Taldren CA did not make that money.  It was Black-9, not SFC it seems.

Why do people seem to overlook this?  Instead they tell little white imaginations of why they wished or hoped Taldren went down, which frankly, seems rather blatant attempts at misleading others, or thinking that if they state it enough, they can make it fact.

In my own hypothesis, I imagine that Taldren was in a rock and a hard place.  If they were given the go ahead to continue work on Black-9, they wouldn't have the time to work on a second project.  If they worked on a second project, they wouldn't have time to work on Black-9, that though it could be good, if they were then given the go ahead once more to work on Black-9, and could not, it would then be THEM who were in breach of contract and owe money...and hence perhaps owe enough to cause the same result...

Hard decision, they gambled.  Just hypothesizing about what happened.  Whether the hypothesis is right or not, Mr. Bethke already told us the reasons Taldren closed down.  I for one trust him.

[Sirgod]

Dash For a More in Depth Look , and Discussion on what happened, Check out ToastyO.com .

Erik, Ann, Erin, and Dave have all posted there. Just remember, Let's not try to cause Problems for them. They ave enough Problems without us Guessing what happened, or being arm Chair Developers.

Stephen

[Elvis]

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

Lack of work is what causes any company to shut down, nothing new to see there.

Taldren, the developer of the SFC series; has no relationship to Taldren Korea; the buck stopped in California.

What was going on in the other thread wasn't really pointing toward any particular reason for the specific of Taldren's demise but was offered up as a critique of how Taldren did business.
 

[_SSCF_Hooch]

To be frank, I think Eric is about as dumb as an old fox. It is always what is not said that is more interesting 

I don't think we have heard the last of Taldren by a long shot, never did.

Hooch

[Age]

   I wouldn't go passing any judgement now untill all the facts are known.I just might have tell K Rolling now Hooch.

[Chris SI]

Dash For a More in Depth Look , and Discussion on what happened, Check out ToastyO.com .

Erik, Ann, Erin, and Dave have all posted there. Just remember, Let's not try to cause Problems for them. They ave enough Problems without us Guessing what happened, or being arm Chair Developers.

Stephen

It would help if you put a link Stephen, ToastyO.com comes up empty on my google search.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Uuuum, it got kinda ugly in there. Walk soft and drop the stick.


http://toasty0.ipbhost.com/

<S>

WaterTiger

[Wildcard]

I personally could care less why they are leaving or shutting down or going out of business or doing whatever you want to call it. I am sorry for the people who lost their jobs. All I want to know is will we get the source code? And if not where can we go and buy it? Can it be bought? Who else owns a piece of it? I mean this code was used 3 times cant be that valuable of a code since the game and software is going to be abandoned.

[Chris SI]

Didn't see anything in the public forums, i assume all this bad blood is hidden in a secret forum.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

Uuuum, it got kinda ugly in there. Walk soft and drop the stick.


http://toasty0.ipbhost.com/

<S>

WaterTiger

Ugly ,don't even come close...more like a cat fight

[Gambler]

Uuuum, it got kinda ugly in there. Walk soft and drop the stick.


http://toasty0.ipbhost.com/

<S>

WaterTiger

Ugly ,don't even come close...more like a cat fight

On the other hand it has given some interesting insight into the goings on.

[Age]

Uuuum, it got kinda ugly in there. Walk soft and drop the stick.


http://toasty0.ipbhost.com/

<S>

WaterTiger

It didn't seem that ugly to me in there.

[Sirgod]

Yep they where actually Pretty respectfull all things considered.

Stephen

[Chris SI]

Well, what do we expect?

Two men have vastly different view points on the past, its only natural they would clash.

I would rather just forget all of it, none of my business.

[Dash Jones]

Heh, Toasty hid the posts...you no how hard it is to find hidden posts when you aren't a member of a forum!

However, I have more respect for Mr. Bethke now.  I would still categorize Taldren Korea the same as Taldren, in that I differ in veiw, much like Interplay and Black Isle were overall, the same company, Black Isle was just part of an arm.  However, other than that, I have to say i still trust Mr. Bethke and what he says was the reasons for Taldren's Closing, as opposed to what a lot of others are trying to force down our throats, and frankly, I can only assume comes from their own bitterness at life or something.

[Elvis]

Its not about the accident guys, at the point it just becomes rubber necking Toasty did well to hide the posts. The interesting part really wasn't the tit for tat, but the history given.

Dash in one of those posts Eric stated that the two offices were intended to be independent but close knit, since Taldren CA has closed the name of the company in Korea willl be changed. 

[Sirgod]

Here's an Interesting Interview With Erik...

http://pc.ign.com/articles/527/527468p1.html

Stephen

[J. Carney]

All told, Erik does a really good job on explaining everything except the real question-

Where did the money for Taldren Korea come from if there wasn't enough money to keep the existing company afloat?

You don't go off on a limb and build a company in a country where you don't even speak the language if you can't keep paying your steady workers after 5 years. It seems that Erik made the plans for Taldren Korea when Taldren SoCal was riding high, and them decided- for reasons known only to Erik and God- to go through with Taldren Korea while closing down the company that put him on the map.

If it has been answered in more than the well everything would have been 'just work at the cost of distraction [from the goal of making a blockbuster]' I could accept that.

Otherwise, it makes Erik look like an opportunist that would sell his soul for a quick buck.

You don't expect a company of any kind to go out there and kick ass every time that it takes on a project. He states that he either wanted a blockbuster every time or nothing out of Taldren SoCal and was unwilling to do any 'grunt work' to keep the company on the field between the big projects.

WHY?

I thought that it was grunt work that keeps a company going?

Anyhow, it just seems like Erik is using some circular reasoning in the explination that he gave himself to justify closing Taldren SoCal.

'We wanted to make our own story' he says- well, stories are not how you build a company. Stories begin and end. Work, the mind-numbing, not-too-fun-but-steady kind is eternal and gives you the time and capitol to make the blockbusters.

That's how a company is successful, and you can see that in the fact that every really successful- and enduringly so- company does a lot of this gruntwork.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

In another thread, I've been disturbed at the out and out ignoring of what Taldren and Mr. Bethke stated as the reason why Taldren of CA of closed down.  Note, Taldren is NOT gone, it is now based in Korea.

Taldren of CA was closed down because they were contracted out to do a game called Black-9.  The company that contracted them to do it, didn't like what it saw.  The other company broke contract, and did not pay the contract breakage agreement.  Taldren, held out hoping the company would pay.  They did not.  Taldren CA did not make that money.  It was Black-9, not SFC it seems.

Why do people seem to overlook this?  Instead they tell little white imaginations of why they wished or hoped Taldren went down, which frankly, seems rather blatant attempts at misleading others, or thinking that if they state it enough, they can make it fact.

In my own hypothesis, I imagine that Taldren was in a rock and a hard place.  If they were given the go ahead to continue work on Black-9, they wouldn't have the time to work on a second project.  If they worked on a second project, they wouldn't have time to work on Black-9, that though it could be good, if they were then given the go ahead once more to work on Black-9, and could not, it would then be THEM who were in breach of contract and owe money...and hence perhaps owe enough to cause the same result...

Hard decision, they gambled.  Just hypothesizing about what happened.  Whether the hypothesis is right or not, Mr. Bethke already told us the reasons Taldren closed down.  I for one trust him.

Well to sum it up and I am 100% positive I know why Taldren went down.

Not enough black ink came in so that too much red ink came out.

Why all that happened I am not privy to though I have read some various views.  I have been over to ToastyO forums and I would recommend anyone to go there and join or just lurk and read some of the last posts from Eric and a few others we have come to know.

In these views three basic visions of what happened have emerged in my mind:

a) Taldren was a good developer overcome by bigger, stronger, more ruthless competition/companies...

b) Taldren was a mediocre to bad developer that bigger badder companies didn't think was worth keeping around which is why they got smegma'ed.

c)  It doesn't seem to matter what kind of developer Taldren was ANY and ALL companies would have folded under like circumstances

I tend to believe (c) is most likely the truth.  I have my own thoughts about Taldren as a company that derive mostly from my long observation of the 3 products they brought to the market.  In that time I would say their first product was almost tragically buggy, poorly advised and conceived, their second product was their best and their third product was forced to some extent.

The game had a positive effect on my life far beyond a thing like this usually has.

[FA Frey XC]

Dash is wrong.

There is no "Taldren Korea".

Taldren CA and Taldren Korea were child companies of Taldren.

When the parent company Taldren fell, the children had to fall as well.

Erik has already stated this as fact and is going to come up with another "company name".

People, can we please get our facts straight before posting speculation?

Regards,