Topic: Litterbox 5 shiplist / modelpack installer for test server

[Julin Eurthyr]

Ladies and Gentle-beings (if any of the guys on this board are gentle...)

I am proud to present the first half of what you will need for the Litterbox 5 test server...

The Litterbox 5 shiplist / model pack installer

If you have the preview pack installed, it's removal will be necessary.  You can readily do so by going to Control Panel -> Add / Remove Programs -> Litterbox 5 Shiplist / Modelpack uninstaller

Then it's safe to install the test server shiplist.

I have ran this pack through Firesoul's model tester, and have confirmed that all models I am cloning are good and there.  Please remember that recent servers have made changes to the stock model folders, I recall RDSL made one to a Mirak ship's folder (the one that controls the Z-MDC, IIRC).  If you have not properly restored your model folders after RDSL, there will be problems.  Either repair the model folder prior to installation, or it's time for a fresh install...

It's sad that I did the repair already, but forgot exactly which folder was affected.

The installation adds about 130 mb disk space used to a purely stock SFC-OP installation.  It might be up to about 150 mb or so, depending on the system configuration...

Since I did not actually include models in this installer, I leave it up to you to populate it with models of your choice.  By default, it clones the most appropriate stock model into the new folder.  The new folders are found right off your game directory, usually (stock installation):
C:\Program Files\Taldren Software Inc.\Starfleet Command Orion Pirates\dipmodels\models
On the folder names, most of them should be self explanatory.  One that might trip you up is the multiple CV directories.  The Stock CV directory is kept on for the CVA / SCS sized ships, while the dipmodels CV directory is for the CA-sized Carriers.

[Fluf]

Thank you Julin for all your hard work on this!  I will be getting a mission pack together hopefully tomorrow and am pushing for a test server up by tomorrow night.

[Capt Jeff]

Just a suggestion for the dip shiplist for AFTER LB5....

Tweak your ships, but base it on OP+.  A lot of people really like the OP+ with models and it would be a shame for those that just like the "plug n play" that you get with his list.

Unless he doesn't give permission of course.....hmm

[FPF-DieHard]

Just a suggestion for the dip shiplist for AFTER LB5....

Tweak your ships, but base it on OP+.  A lot of people really like the OP+ with models and it would be a shame for those that just like the "plug n play" that you get with his list.

Unless he doesn't give permission of course.....hmm

OP+ is "stock" these days . . .

[Grim]

Just a suggestion for the dip shiplist for AFTER LB5....

Tweak your ships, but base it on OP+.  A lot of people really like the OP+ with models and it would be a shame for those that just like the "plug n play" that you get with his list.

Unless he doesn't give permission of course.....hmm

OP+ is "stock" these days . . .

Yep, stock on GSA play more or less.

[KBF-Kurok]

So for this to work I'm going to have to uninstall op3.3?

[Capt Jeff]

So for this to work I'm going to have to uninstall op3.3?

No, but I would re-name the shiplist and fighterlist "OP+ shiplist"  "OP+ Ftrlist", then install the LB5 mod.  You can then leave OP+ installed, and not mess with your OP+ models...

Once LB5 is over, just uninstall LB5 and change the "OP+" lists back to their original name...

[KBF-Kurok]

Thanks for the quick answer, that is what i thought , just wanted comfirmation.
Kurok

[Mace]

Thanks for the quick answer, that is what i thought , just wanted comfirmation.
Kurok

Set up and use the SFCOP mod chooser Strat made.  It's slick as... well you know

[SSCF-LeRoy]

Does the DIP Shiplist point to the OP+ models?

[Fluf]

The DIP Shiplist was made from OP+3.0.  What we did was remove ships that were not used in dyna play, then reformulated BPVs, and then Julin made a installer that copies your current model folders and makes new ones in a separate DIPModel Folder.  This allows you to put the models of your choice in the respective folders if you want.

[Green]

Thanks Julin.

Will uninstall OP+3.3 (can always reinstall later for GSA games) and load this one.

One possible suggestion, can the "Litterbox5Shiplist" installer start to be named with a verison number (i.e. 1.0, 1.1, etc) so we'll know if we have the latest/greatest?  If not, no biggie.  Just an idea.

Thanks again.  Now to find the test server ... "HEY FLUF!"

[Julin Eurthyr]

1.  Your OP+ installation is safe with this installation.  The installer backs up whatever shiplist you have current at the time of installation and replaces it as part of the un-installation.

2.  I've created the model pack because our shiplist is based off an OP+ 3.0 derivative (Storm Season II's shiplist), and plans call for the shiplist to be updated to the current OP+ pack once we've got the formula fully straightened out.  As Firesoul has made significant changes to his model packs since 3.0, it is believed that the old shiplist is not compatable with his current models.  I could make a model-using installation or 2 as time goes on, however, I believe half the fun of having expanded model folders is poking around the Modeler's board, picking expansion / replacement shps based on personal preference (and I know my preference isn't the same as everyone else's around here), and putting them in.  Have some fun finding your own replacement shps...

3.  I'll be changing the name as time goes on, hopefully I'll only need to make one more installer, and that should be the all-in-one final installer...  If there are interm changes, I'll figure something out, hopefully it's the NSIS installer's patching system so we don't need to do multiple long installs...

[Dizzy]

i'D BE HAPPIER IF fs AND YOU GOT TOGETHER AND DISCUSSED THE MODEL FOLDER CHANGES HE MADE FROM 3.0 TO 3.3. Oops.

Reason being, he changed folder names. So if I want to play LB5, those folders wont be compatible unless you have changed 3.0 model folder specs to 3.3 and therefore, all those cool models he has included into his 3.3 D/L will be dumped.

So what is the story here?

[Gook]

For a complete idiot at these things like myself, what exactly do I do from a clean install and 2552 patch.

Please give idiots guide with pointers to places to DL stuff and orde it is to be done. Thankyou in advance

[Fluf]

Gook,  just download the installer anywhere so you can find it, desktop works.  Double click on it and make sure its going to your Taldren Software Directory and it will install everything for you.  When its done, you will see it has made a separate DIPModels folder in your OP folder.  In there, you can replace models as you wish if you want.

Dizzy, although this is based on FS's OP+3.0, it is not intended to work with any of his models or his install package for 3.0 or 3.3.  We removed alot of ships that are never used.  This was basically the SS2 shiplist and we have modified it.  FS has done some fine work, but OP+ is not a true Dyna shiplist, and was never intended to be.  Its more of a GSA shiplist.  This shiplist and installer gives the player the option of switching out models for the classes he/she would like to use.

[Dizzy]

This shiplist and installer gives the player the option of switching out models for the classes he/she would like to use.

Huh?

And you are also saying it isnt model folder compatible with 3.3? As in the shiplist pointers go to the same folders and model names, etc... I dont care if you cut some ships, but does the geometry match?

[Julin Eurthyr]

This shiplist and installer gives the player the option of switching out models for the classes he/she would like to use.

Huh?

And you are also saying it isnt model folder compatible with 3.3? As in the shiplist pointers go to the same folders and model names, etc... I dont care if you cut some ships, but does the geometry match?

In a word:  NO.

At the time we started this project, Storm Season II had recently completed.  We believed that it was a stable D2 modified shiplist from which to base our works from.

As time went on, Firesoul continued his independent work on OP+.  SS2's shiplist is an OP+ 3.0 derivative, and we're up to 3.3 now.

When we asked him about the model folders somewhere around the 3.1 -> 3.2 change, he advised us that there would be major changes to the model folders.  Instead of having to spend hours identifying the ships according to his shiplist, then re-doing the models in our shiplist, we decided to go with the system we have now.  This system is a derivative / expansion of my work on LB4, which, other than a few mis-classed ships, was more-or-less universally accepted at the time.

Once we have the formula locked in, we could theoretically apply it to whatever shiplist we want, whether OP+, GW, RDSL, you name it, we can apply it.  As a design decision, we've chosen to keep on the SS2-based list till we're 100% happy with it.  Of course, this being the first test, we're nowhere near that point...

[FPF-DieHard]

This shiplist and installer gives the player the option of switching out models for the classes he/she would like to use.

Huh?

And you are also saying it isnt model folder compatible with 3.3? As in the shiplist pointers go to the same folders and model names, etc... I dont care if you cut some ships, but does the geometry match?

Dizzy is right, the model name for a lot of ships are differnt on OP+ 3.3 from 3.0.   

[FPF-DieHard]

This shiplist and installer gives the player the option of switching out models for the classes he/she would like to use.

Huh?

And you are also saying it isnt model folder compatible with 3.3? As in the shiplist pointers go to the same folders and model names, etc... I dont care if you cut some ships, but does the geometry match?

Dizzy is right, the model name for a lot of ships are differnt on OP+ 3.3 from 3.0.   

Doh!!  Just checked the list.   it will be fine!!

Serves me right for listening to Dizzy . . .

[Lepton]

Is there a test server up yet??

[Fluf]

almost got it.  Give me 30 mins and Ill get a test server up.

Will be using stock missions for now.  Might do a mission pack later this weekend, but right now, until I hear some bugs are squished, we are going stock missions.

[Green]

almost got it.  Give me 30 mins and Ill get a test server up.

Will be using stock missions for now.  Might do a mission pack later this weekend, but right now, until I hear some bugs are squished, we are going stock missions.

Copy Fluf, you posted the above at 2059, I'll let ya slide and will log in at 2130 ... hey, I hear ya got a pie baking, so I'll spot ya 30 seconds to pull it out of the oven.

[Dizzy]

Ok, im confused now... What will the LB5 installer do to my models folders?

[Fluf]

It will copy your stock model folders, and make new ones in a DIPModels folders, giving you new models for different classes. 

[Dizzy]

So it copies ONLY the STOCK model folders and creates new folders from them? That part is safe. So this is compatible with 3.3 despite it having changed geometries from 3.0 to 3.3? What about when it tries to load a ship that has the changed 3.3 geometry?

Do I need to backup my Models folder? Or is the instal benign and doesnt mess with any existing folders. Also, how do I get rid of the LB5 folders? You didnt copy them into the Models folder, did you?

[Julin Eurthyr]

Okay.

When LB5 is installed over an OP+ installation, this is what happens:

1.  OP+ files (shiplist, fighterlist, strings shipname and model.siz) are backed up.

2.  The Litterbox ones are put into place.

3.  The DIPModels folder is created.  The new ship folders are populated from the contents of the stock OP model directories (ie, the F-NCA folder copies the content of the current FCL folder.  Whether this is the stock Miranda, or a replacement ship doesn't matter.  I use Fleetdock 13 models in my stock folders, and they copy perfectly well.  OP+ models in the OP+ directory are not even touched.

The DIP shiplist does not reference, call, or interact with the OP+ model folder in any way, shape or form.  It's existance (or lack thereof) does not affect LB5/DIP in the least.

If you put the Litterbox shiplists into the "other mod" folder of the shiplist chooser, you can use the chooser to swap freely between OP+ and LB5, theoretically using 2 completely different model sets (outside of what stock folders are referenced by both OP+ and LB5...

Found other questions:

The installer does not do anything with the contents of the stock models folder, other than copy files from them.  Yes, it is benign...

The DIP folders are in a special directory, separate from the stock models and the OP+ models.  In a full OP+ / LB5 installation, you'll have models in 3 places.

LB5 folders are currently designed to disappear with the uninstallation of LB5.  Eventually, we hope to have the DIP folders remain on the hard drive permanently while the shiplist may change from campaign to campaign.  This is the long term vision that is always subject to change (we might eventually re-write the DIP shiplist to reference the OP+ folders

[KBFLordKrueg]

So it copies ONLY the STOCK model folders and creates new folders from them? That part is safe. So this is compatible with 3.3 despite it having changed geometries from 3.0 to 3.3? What about when it tries to load a ship that has the changed 3.3 geometry?

Do I need to backup my Models folder? Or is the instal benign and doesnt mess with any existing folders. Also, how do I get rid of the LB5 folders? You didnt copy them into the Models folder, did you?

I think ya making it way more complicated than it is, Dizzy. I downloaded LB5 stuff, played for a while, then ran the uninstaller and played on another server. No problems, everything was just the way I left it.

[Dizzy]

The installer does not do anything with the contents of the stock models folder, other than copy files from them.  Yes, it is benign...

The DIP folders are in a special directory, separate from the stock models and the OP+ models.  In a full OP+ / LB5 installation, you'll have models in 3 places.

LB5 folders are currently designed to disappear with the uninstallation of LB5.  Eventually, we hope to have the DIP folders remain on the hard drive permanently while the shiplist may change from campaign to campaign.  This is the long term vision that is always subject to change (we might eventually re-write the DIP shiplist to reference the OP+ folders

TY for clarifying. Now I understand. Now about how many more folders are created and can you estimate the approximate size of the final install?

I think ya making it way more complicated than it is, Dizzy. I downloaded LB5 stuff, played for a while, then ran the uninstaller and played on another server. No problems, everything was just the way I left it.

MB I did, LK, but it's more important than you may realize, especially to a server designer such as myself. See, ever since SG3 when S'Cipio, Karnak, and I started this new models folder creation thing, it has been copied and improved upon by about every server since. The problem with RDSL and SG3 was that it added folders to the stock directories. When FS did it, he did it right by adding his models in a seperate folder leaving the stock OP Models alone. For SG4, we are doing the same thing. A few extra folders are created, mostly for the new PF models. It is also a benign installation.

But the thing that is most important to me is what I can steal from LB5 for SG4. And if they have a DIP model folders standard that works good, I should try and refine it and use it in SG4. I mean, that is their intent, for it to become a standard installation for D2, coexisting with OP+.

And perhaps all this discussion should have taken place in a Dev forum for us server admins to figure out, it has shed light for others that are familiar with this process so they know not to be worried about what a new server install kit will do to your game and the way it is setup.

Lessons have been learned. SG3 (because we didnt know any better) and RDSL all messed with the stock directory. And there were problems getting rid of it. Now, with the implementation of copying to new folders, you eliminate the risk of corrupting your game. That's what it's all about. A perfectly safe install, one that is idiot proof, installs and uninstalls without complication and is one smooth operator. Seems like that's what the LB5 installation program is like from what I have read. We will see.

[TotensBurntCorpse]

Alliances on the test server?

seems the mirak are not allied with the roms/isc/hydrans

I BLAME FLUF!

So much for baking pies !

[Julin Eurthyr]

Diz:

Early in the installation process, back when I was testing on a purely stock install, I measured an 130 MB increase in the size of the SFC game folder.

I've added a folder or 2 since then, and now I'm testing directly into my main play folder, as I prefer to test live instead of under sanitized conditions.  Unfortunately, that style won't let me gauge properly the actual increase, since I am a fan of TOS / SFB ships instead of the TMP style that comes with the game.  I don't think I'm adding more than 150-200 mb on to a purely stock install.

All that from just a bit over 300k of installer...  Nice to see the 56k-ers aren't having a problem (or waiting a day) to get onto the test server, eh?

Have you installed the package?  Go to <game>/dipmodels/models and count the folders in there.  That's all the ships (and PFs) that I've added.  I've got to write a readme with the whole model list spelled out one of these days...  Though, off the top of my head, I think each race got enouugh folders so between stock and DIPmodels they got about 14-15 model folders each.  Primary goal was to get a folder for FF, FFB, DD, DW, CL, CW, CA, NCA, BCH, DN, BB, CVL, CV, CVA, TUG, LTT.  Rommies got a 2nd (Starhawk) PF folder, and the LDR got a lot more folders, including their PF.  I've even started expanding the Pirate selection...