Topic: Kirk #1 Trek captain  (Read 12766 times)

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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2004, 10:11:03 pm »
Have you ever seen Picard with outout a shirt?

No.

You have to understand the acting of the times.

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Actually, yes, there are a few episodes where he loses his shirt...in fact there are some episodes he loses ALL of his clothes!
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2004, 10:23:43 pm »
Sorry, Neither Kirk nor Picard deserve the rights as best captain...nor any of those other leading captains...the rights belong to Spock.

Right after Spock comes Riker.

Note...over half the times it wasn't Kirk or McCoy who figured things out...it was Spock.  And in the movies...it was Spock who always saved them...except that once in ST3...of course without him there to help them...they lost the ship!

And then there's Riker...

Who was the Captain that Beat Picard (actually Locutus)...That's Right...Riker!  Who was it that actually got the First Contact going in First Contact...that's Right...Riker!  Who was it that Saved Picard in Insurrection...That's right...Riker.  Okay...Riker was preoccupied in Nemesis...but still...he beat the real strategist of the Reman fleet...leaving Picard to beat that pansy clone of his.

Spock wins my vote for best captain...without Spock...Kirk would have...well died on one of his first missions as Captain of the Enterprise...

Of course, as for woman on Trek...here's a sexist comment...since people are saying Kirk was hot and manly...personally, I think Tasha Yar was hot!

 :-*

 :P

Well, if you go along these lines, then it should be..... WESLEY CRUSHER!!!!!! 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Offline SSCF-LeRoy

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2004, 10:24:51 pm »
Sorry, Neither Kirk nor Picard deserve the rights as best captain...nor any of those other leading captains...the rights belong to Spock.

Right after Spock comes Riker.

Note...over half the times it wasn't Kirk or McCoy who figured things out...it was Spock.  And in the movies...it was Spock who always saved them...except that once in ST3...of course without him there to help them...they lost the ship!

And then there's Riker...

Who was the Captain that Beat Picard (actually Locutus)...That's Right...Riker!  Who was it that actually got the First Contact going in First Contact...that's Right...Riker!  Who was it that Saved Picard in Insurrection...That's right...Riker.  Okay...Riker was preoccupied in Nemesis...but still...he beat the real strategist of the Reman fleet...leaving Picard to beat that pansy clone of his.

Spock wins my vote for best captain...without Spock...Kirk would have...well died on one of his first missions as Captain of the Enterprise...

Of course, as for woman on Trek...here's a sexist comment...since people are saying Kirk was hot and manly...personally, I think Tasha Yar was hot!

 :-*

 :P

Well, if you go along these lines, then it should be..... WESLEY CRUSHER!!!!!! 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I see that you like 'em young then ;)

Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2004, 12:12:31 am »
Sorry, Neither Kirk nor Picard deserve the rights as best captain...nor any of those other leading captains...the rights belong to Spock.

Right after Spock comes Riker.

Note...over half the times it wasn't Kirk or McCoy who figured things out...it was Spock.  And in the movies...it was Spock who always saved them...except that once in ST3...of course without him there to help them...they lost the ship!

And then there's Riker...

Who was the Captain that Beat Picard (actually Locutus)...That's Right...Riker!  Who was it that actually got the First Contact going in First Contact...that's Right...Riker!  Who was it that Saved Picard in Insurrection...That's right...Riker.  Okay...Riker was preoccupied in Nemesis...but still...he beat the real strategist of the Reman fleet...leaving Picard to beat that pansy clone of his.

Spock wins my vote for best captain...without Spock...Kirk would have...well died on one of his first missions as Captain of the Enterprise...

Of course, as for woman on Trek...here's a sexist comment...since people are saying Kirk was hot and manly...personally, I think Tasha Yar was hot!

 :-*

 :P

I agree with you about Spock, he was great.

But wiker?

The only man with less spine than...I don't know how to finish that sentence, I usuially say Riker.

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Offline Age

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2004, 12:22:03 am »
  He always had Class compared to Picard .He knew when shoot first and answer questions later unlike Picard.

Offline Chris SI

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2004, 07:55:03 am »
Hmm, without Shatner, there is no Star Trek.
Shatner was an acclaimed Broadway actor who had already made a name for himself on television before being offered the role in the second pilot.
Patrick Steward was an undistinguished character actor before TNG.
Avery Brooks was best known for a recurring role on Spencer for hire.
Kate Mulgrew was a last minute replacement for Voyager, was known for a stint on 'Cheers' as Sam Malone's love interest.
The latter actors all took off because of Trek, Shatner had a sucessful career before and after TOS.

As for who would win head to head, Kirk would in any contest against the later Capatins, all of whom could never match Kirk's natural leadership or excellent sense of tactics and timing (its all subjective, of course.)

As for being a 'womanizer' or jerk, 60s television required a certain amount of that, but they really made fun of this in the movies, especailly in ST IV and VI.

BTW, "Voyager" was a horrible show until 7 of 9 was introduced, and even after that, it was never top notch, it could be excellent at times, but it would snap back just as easily into pedantic.

I saw each show in order, so I can speak to it from that point of view, I can see how a modern gal might look down her nose at Kirk, but for the children of the 60s, Kirk, Spock and mcCoy will always be beaming down to some planet, and solving the unsolvable, beating the unbeatable, while performing in art-deco surroundings and on a ship that looks like a bad Ramada Inn on the inside.
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2004, 08:44:36 am »


I saw each show in order, so I can speak to it from that point of view, I can see how a modern gal might look down her nose at Kirk, but for the children of the 60s, Kirk, Spock and mcCoy will always be beaming down to some planet, and solving the unsolvable, beating the unbeatable, while performing in art-deco surroundings and on a ship that looks like a bad Ramada Inn on the inside.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  I love this discription!!!  Beautiful!


Offline Grim

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2004, 09:11:29 am »

Kirk was the best captain imo, also Wrath of Khan was my favourite trek film.

Offline hobbesmaster

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2004, 11:56:54 am »
Sisko is not only better than all the other captains, he pwnz0r3s all the other captains!  All the useful qualities of Kirk and Picard rolled into one!

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2004, 12:16:11 pm »
Sisko is not only better than all the other captains, he pwnz0r3s all the other captains!  All the useful qualities of Kirk and Picard rolled into one!

Agreed.  That and he looked cooler.
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2004, 12:40:16 pm »
BAh...Kirk Made Admiral AND got busted all the way back to captian....he is simply the best....he the guy you want to lead in UNKNOWN space....

Picard is a fine "loveboat" captain...dragging a bunch a civilians around KNOWN space....

Kirk's the guy who will break regs to save a friend...

Kirk's the guy who will violate the Prime directive WHEN ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO...

Picard is the guy who talked a crew into giving up life for nothing...when their ship could have been rigged to explode...

Kirk wouldnt have taken any crap from Q either....he would have firgured a way to pit another Q against him and neutralize him...

Kirk is the guy you want at the helm.....when you go where no MAN has gone before...

Cuz when I heard the opening to TNG the very first time....I knew is was down the PC hill we go....

Bah.....from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs....

That Idea has been behind the deaths of MILLIONs here in reality....it has no bussiness being offered up as a Science fiction Utopia...

Tos centered around the importance of the INDIVIDUAL over society....TNG centers around the needs of society being greater than the needs of the individial....

That why after TOS and TMP era.....my next fav Sci-Fi is B5....

"Sometimes the needs of the one...outweigh the needs of the few "....I think that says it all.

Offline The_Joker

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2004, 01:21:39 pm »

Kirk wouldnt have taken any crap from Q either....

Actually, I'd say this statement is more true than you might think.  I provide Gary Mithchell (Where No Man Has Gone Before), Charlie X, Sylvia and Korob (Catspaw), Apollo (Who Mourns for Adonais?) and especially the erstwhile Squire of Gothos, Trelane as specific examples of Kirk "not taking any sh*t" from godlike characters.
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2004, 02:57:31 pm »
=====

Picard is a fine "loveboat" captain...dragging a bunch a civilians around KNOWN space....
=====

Bravo.

Quote of the day and so true.

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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2004, 06:30:43 pm »

Kirk wouldnt have taken any crap from Q either....

Actually, I'd say this statement is more true than you might think.  I provide Gary Mithchell (Where No Man Has Gone Before), Charlie X, Sylvia and Korob (Catspaw), Apollo (Who Mourns for Adonais?) and especially the erstwhile Squire of Gothos, Trelane as specific examples of Kirk "not taking any sh*t" from godlike characters.

I'm not too sure of that.

Sisko tried to take that tack with Q, he ended up looking like an idiot.

Half the fun of the Q/Picard dynamic was watching Q throw endless insults and put-downs at the human race and having Picard keep his faith in humanity.

Even when Q was right.

There's a time and place for each tactic.

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Offline FPF-AJTK

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2004, 08:55:49 pm »
Oh Puh-LEAZE! Prick-not-so-hard was SUCH a crybaby puss that he had to get Kirks 140 year old but outa the treknobabble cosmic ribbon to kick the crap outa Soren, an old geezer that was hundreds of years old that bitch slapped picard.

Dont get me wrong, Picard was a decent Captain, and his shortcomings were not his fault.

Roddenberry split Kirk into 2 parts: Picard the thinker and Riker the warrior.

So Riker got to fight and get 99% of the trim on TNG and Picard got... a flute.

Here is the uber-point: Kirk NEVER woulda been a freakin BORG.

Picard = weenie
Kirk = MacDaddy


I liked Sisko, even if he was in command of a freaking glorified toll booth at the end of the wormhole.

I HATED Voyager, but yeah, Janeway was the closest to Kirk of any of the others.

I did like the boxing match between Sisko and Q, priceless.

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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2004, 03:58:57 am »
Oh Puh-LEAZE! Prick-not-so-hard was SUCH a crybaby puss that he had to get Kirks 140 year old but outa the treknobabble cosmic ribbon to kick the crap outa Soren, an old geezer that was hundreds of years old that bitch slapped picard.

Dont get me wrong, Picard was a decent Captain, and his shortcomings were not his fault.

Roddenberry split Kirk into 2 parts: Picard the thinker and Riker the warrior.

So Riker got to fight and get 99% of the trim on TNG and Picard got... a flute.

Here is the uber-point: Kirk NEVER woulda been a freakin BORG.

Picard = weenie
Kirk = MacDaddy


I liked Sisko, even if he was in command of a freaking glorified toll booth at the end of the wormhole.

I HATED Voyager, but yeah, Janeway was the closest to Kirk of any of the others.

I did like the boxing match between Sisko and Q, priceless.



HOLY sh*t.

Where did all that anger come from dude? It's just a TV show.

i disagree with 90% of your post but I don't start throwing insults left and right...

Just take a deep breath and realize it's just a TV show mate :).

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2004, 05:41:42 am »
Uhhh.... yeah.

Boy, that kinda ruined this fun debate.

Time to go.

Offline Father Ted

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2004, 07:12:15 am »
If it weren't for Kirk, we wouldn't have Picard, Janeway, Cisco, and Archer to kick around. And without McCoy, we wouldn't have Crusher, Bashir, or the EMH(who was the funniest character on Voyager). Without Scotty, we wouldn't have.....

Point is, compare all you like, but without the originals, you wouldn't have the followups to compare them to. Paramount, Berman, and Braga owe a huge debt to the original series' cast for turning Trek into a phenomenon that outlasted its 60's heyday.

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Offline Gambler

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2004, 09:13:31 am »
I have to agree with AJTK about Picard and Kirk. 

What I hated most about Picard was the fact that he never made decisions without his staff in the ready room backing him up.

Typical TNG episode that I recall.

Something is going to destroy someone or something or hurt the crew.

Picard calls a meeting to discuss with the staff what should be done.

Staff does it, we win.


Typical TOS episode

Something is going to destroy someone, something or hurt the crew.

Kirk kicks it's ass.  Certainly with the help of his crew, but he's the leader.



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Offline Chris SI

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2004, 10:15:31 am »
Kirk led the way, but Picard had his moments.

The 'early' Picard seemed to be a designed weenie, the 'anti-Kirk' since Rodenberry didn't want another Kirk. This back-fired badly, as Steward looked like a useless weakling for about two years.

After that, we get a different Picard, confident, and not so willing to have his first officer or 'counciler' (WORST IDEA for a recurring role since Wesly) tell him what to do. The early episodes had the ludicrous scenes of Riker 'forbidding' Picard from doing things, and Troy wanting Picard to 'explain to the crew' why he had to scratch his backside, not exactly heroic.

Year three threw all that touchy-feely crap out an airlock, and TNG took off as a series from that point on.
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