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Kirk #1 Trek captain
« on: June 29, 2004, 11:14:30 am »
This was written by Laura Goodwin.

=============

Kirk: My Ten Reasons
Specifically, my personal top ten reasons why James Tiberius Kirk to me will always be more than "The Best Enterprise Captain"
by Laura Goodwin
Most "Kirk is best" lists compare him to Captain Picard of the Next Generation Enterprise, asserting he's the better man of the two for reasons like these:




Kirk can wear nothing but red tights and still look butch. (Charlie X)

Kirk stole clothes from a Depression-era skid-row clothesline and made those rags look good by putting them on. (City on Edge of Forever)

Kirk has more than sex appeal going for him. His story is a ripping yarn. For example, Kirk survived Kodos the Executioner's pogrom as a kid, and as an adult had the satisfaction of bringing him to justice. (Conscience of the King)

When Kirk was forced by an alien race to fight a murderous enemy without weapons or anyone to help him (Arena), he wasted no time trying to reason with these plainly unreasonable beings. He fashioned a primitive cannon out of a hollow log and local minerals and fired a handful of raw diamonds right into his enemy's heart. Fabulous!

Kirk is no glamour boy: he's FIERCE! He's killed Gods (Who Mourns for Adonis, The Apple), kidnapped and intimidated leaders of nations (Cloud Minders, Piece of the Action, others), threatened a queen with a spanking (Elaan of Troyius), seduced enemy women (Wink of an Eye, By Any Other Name, others), defied all-powerful super-beings (Charlie X, Squire of Gothos, others), got into fights with a Vulcan Ambassador's son (Spock), totally destroyed several different culture's status quos (Taste of Armageddon, many others) and got away with ALL of it. Shoot, he got *promoted* to ADMIRAL.




Kirk didn't know how to drive a car with a standard shift, but he gave it a go anyway. (Piece of the Action)
 

Kirk walks with vigor and radiates masculinity. Picard walks like he has a load in his pants.

Kirk has more sex appeal alone that Picard's whole bridge crew combined!

Kirk would rather have his shirt ripped off than keep fussily tugging it into place like Picard always does with his.
Now look, that last is simply not true. Shatner had to fuss with his costume a lot too. The difference is, in his case, it is fun to watch.

===============
OK, fun's fun, but seriously, this stubborn Kirk worship which will not die is no trivial matter. My assertion is that James T. Kirk is one of the most popular fictional characters of the hero class for many very solid reasons. He's one of the most relentlessly positive and entertaining creatures of imagination that the public of any age has ever seen. To begin with, he's no ambivalent anti-hero hero: he's a straight out HERO hero; there's nothing namby-pamby about his heroism. Dark side - what dark side? He may be rather fanatical and a bit hot-headed at times, he occasionally struggles with doubt and the rare regret, but he is through and through a perfectly decent fellow without being one bit prissy about it. Modern men who are thrashing about for worthwhile role models keep coming back to Kirk, and modern women point to him again and again as an example of what's desirable in a man. This phenomenon demands serious examination.

Kirk didn't exist, so we had to invent him. There is something in our human urges that wants a guy like him to appear. Now that we have him, we can't let him go. He incorporates in one personality some of our most rare and wonderful human qualities, and we like identifying with him, because by doing so we ennoble ourselves. He's beyond centered and authentic, he's utterly sincere: he says what he means and lives his beliefs - and for him, that works. In his world, these qualities are rewarded. In our world, a world where many of us feel courage means compromising ourselves to survive, it's comforting to know that people still enjoy imagining the gallant and dauntless Captain Kirk, and the world of the future that's home for such a man.

OK, here indeed at last is, as promised, my personal top ten reasons why James T. Kirk is not only the all-time best Enterprise Captain, but one of the most wonderful fictional heroes ever:

10) Inspiring - Leads by example, and also gives great pep-talks. His people are amazingly loyal, and this is because of him. He himself is fiercely loyal and dedicated, and his people appreciate it, and emulate him.

9) Passionate - Kirk demonstrates a fanatical degree of focus. Idealistic, big-hearted and true, he has a passion for excellence. He feeds his own fire by surrounding himself with similar super-achievers, and by tolerating no negativity from lesser creatures.

8) Fearless - A heroic, rough-and-ready, can-do kind of guy. Both mentally and physically daring.

7) Resourceful - Makes the best of every situation. Handles problems well on his own, and uses his team well, too.

6) Tough - Takes a licking and keeps on kicking. People who go against him always end up regretting it. He is stubborn, brave, and resilient as hell, with terrific stamina and an indomitable spirit.

5) Appealing - Pleasant, bright and witty, he smiles and laughs easily. He's a real people person. You'd invite him to a party, or to meet your mom.

4) Creative - Finds wicked cool ways to unnerve his enemies, and everybody else. People often give him what he wants out of sheer astonishment at his audacity. He also uses softer methods to win, including a sudden generous gift of pure forgiveness. He also has a gift for sharing his vision of how things should be in passionate fits of eloquence.

3) Smart - Can outwit computers and beat his genius Vulcan pal at chess. What he doesn't know, he knows how to find or figure out. Doesn't clutter his mind up with facts: that's what computers are for. He cultivates his own practical abilities and nourishes his own human wisdom.

2) Farsighted - Has a vision of how things should be and what he can do to make it happen. Sees the big picture, and his (and your) place in it.

1) Sexy - Yes! He's sexy, but he's more than that: he's sexy in a rare and wonderful way. Handsome, virile and not at all shy, he is comfortable with his sexuality. He's masculine, but affectionate: loves to hug and kiss. He enjoys his own body and enjoys giving and getting pleasure. He's a fun guy who loves women, and he also respects them, but he's not wimpy about it. He confidently has used sex as a weapon without compunction when he thought it was appropriate. He is warm and welcoming to women, and has many women friends, but he's a man's man, not "a ladies man", nor "one of the girls". Kirk is physically affectionate with his male friends too, and never wonders for a second if it's proper. He's very touchable. This unique combination of approachability, initiative, and chemistry is the fuel that powers his famous charisma.


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Offline Chris SI

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2004, 11:33:14 am »
Quite a testimonial.
Taldren poster known as FFZ

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2004, 07:55:00 pm »
Admiral
James
T
Kirk


Kirks da man!

 :woot:
RE-VER-SE: To move backwards, retrograde; movement that is not forward in nature.

[img]http://pages.sbcglobal.net/wanderer/_uimages/AJTK.jpg

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2004, 08:15:45 pm »
Kirk was a player. "Bones, you got something for this?" <pulls down pants>

Talk about global STDs!!!

His acting ability was much to be desired.  Talking like he couldn't remember his lines.

Looking at every skirt like it was his mission to conquer.

He had a son that he didn't even know about!!!

He was very one dimensional.


Picard.... <sigh>  has many sides to him that surprised one every time they thought they had him figured out.

He claimed not to like children, but was always able to pull in the fatherly heart when needed.

He could act like a drunken pirate then quote Shakespear at a drop of a hat.

He is very versitile and knowledgable on every subject.

Did you see him with his english riding gear on?  Oh man, I wouldn't mind shining those boots.

I saw him live on stage.  Absolutely remarkable performance.

Picard is eclectic and provides his watchers a potpourri of emotions throughout the spectrum of love.

He dealt with gods, demons, and death.

He was never vain enough to pretend he was something that he was not.


I would take *cough* Janeway over Kirk any day.


Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2004, 10:40:18 am »
Kirk was not a womanizer.

The show helped shape sexist attitudes of that era.

There were actually only 2 times Kirk actually got ... well, any ...

<S>

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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2004, 12:33:33 pm »
I would take *cough* Janeway over Kirk any day.

:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:

I think I'm in love...someone that actually likes Janeway!!!

Merlin
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2004, 01:42:58 pm »
Kirk was not a womanizer.

The show helped shape sexist attitudes of that era.

There were actually only 2 times Kirk actually got ... well, any ...

<S>

WaterTiger


Kirk is a total jerk...  hehe.... Kirk, the jerk!!!

An overcofident jerk.

Yes, he was a womanizer.  Judzia Dax even noticed it, and she should know.

Maybe you have to be on the other side of the fence to see it.  ;)

Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2004, 03:36:00 pm »
Do you know who Laura is?

http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/toswomen.htm

This was a sexual revolution -- remember the era.

Read what she wrote in a PG (clean) format:

This page was born because of my righteous anger at Trek "fans" who repeatedly talk about "Playboy Kirk" or the Star Trek "Babes" in an appallingly sexist way. Here's proof that Kirk was NOT a playboy and Star Trek was NOT a sexist show. It was an anti-sexist show: one of the first, and one of the all-time best.

From now on, when anyone rolls into the Trek fan forum, spits their gum out onto the floor, and oafishly declares that Kirk was a heterosexual horndog who po**ed all of the chicks, I want you all to boldly and confidently SCOFF at them. Scoff also if they say that all the TOS women were bimbos in miniskirts who were nothing but eye-candy. The only proper reaction to such ill-informed opinions is round, sound scoffery... as I herein demonstrate.

============



============

The women of TOS.

You have to look at the era; this was a sexual revolution.

<S>

WaterTiger

« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 03:38:51 pm by WaterTiger »
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Offline Gambler

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2004, 03:38:41 pm »
I'd take Janeway over Picard any day.  She had much bigger balls than he ever dreamed of having.

PS- Shouldn't this be a dead horse?  :)
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2004, 03:39:36 pm »
I'd take Janeway over Picard any day.  She had much bigger balls than he ever dreamed of having.

PS- Shouldn't this be a dead horse?  :)

The horse never dies.

It moves to another stable.

<S>

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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2004, 04:16:40 pm »
PopCorn              [X]
Good Soda           [X]
Rollingpin O Vision [X]

I think Everything Is Set up, Please Continue Guys and gals.  ;D

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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2004, 04:28:19 pm »
IMHO, Kirk is a victim of his times. If there's no women to womanize he's quite a capable commander--and what started Star Trek off.

If he can't keep it in his pants, that's the writer's fault, not the character's.

And Uhura Rocks!   :rwoot:

Merlin
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2004, 08:52:14 pm »
Do you know who Laura is?

http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/toswomen.htm

This was a sexual revolution -- remember the era.

Read what she wrote in a PG (clean) format:

This page was born because of my righteous anger at Trek "fans" who repeatedly talk about "Playboy Kirk" or the Star Trek "Babes" in an appallingly sexist way. Here's proof that Kirk was NOT a playboy and Star Trek was NOT a sexist show. It was an anti-sexist show: one of the first, and one of the all-time best.

From now on, when anyone rolls into the Trek fan forum, spits their gum out onto the floor, and oafishly declares that Kirk was a heterosexual horndog who po**ed all of the chicks, I want you all to boldly and confidently SCOFF at them. Scoff also if they say that all the TOS women were bimbos in miniskirts who were nothing but eye-candy. The only proper reaction to such ill-informed opinions is round, sound scoffery... as I herein demonstrate.

============



============

The women of TOS.

You have to look at the era; this was a sexual revolution.

<S>

WaterTiger





Do you know who Kimberly is?

I scoff right back.

William Shatner does not have the charisma that Patrick Stewart has.

You can put Shatner into a monkey suit, let him say his lines, and you would know it was him.

Stewart would recite his lines and make you think he was a monkey, without wearing the suit!!!

Picard definately has the broadway experience that he uses throughout his career.

The only captain that Kirk would beat is the one from Enterprise.... what's his name?  LOL!!

Uh-huh.... no one can beat Picard and Sisko.

Gosh!!!! Kirk couldn't even die right!!!!  He kept on talking and talking and talking.

I was like, "grab a rock and put him and us out of our misery!!!"  LOL!!!

Kimberly

Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2004, 08:57:49 pm »
Nuts...you had me right up to that Sisko part.

And Archer is cool, especially if you get him out of Xindi-land.

Merlin
« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 08:59:47 pm by Merlinfmct87 »
Learned the Heart's Filthy Lesson from Joshua Watcher.

The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world own shame.
-Oscar Wilde

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'
-Bob Newhart

Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
-Victor Hugo

He Took it all too far..but boy could he play guitar
-David Bowie, Ziggy Stardust

SSCF-Rolling

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2004, 09:12:59 pm »
Nuts...you had me right up to that Sisko part.

And Archer is cool, especially if you get him out of Xindi-land.

Merlin

Oh, don't get me started about Sisko!!!! LOL!!!


Offline SSCF-LeRoy

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2004, 09:32:22 pm »
I concur with Kim on this, although Shatner's performance improved markedly in the movies.

Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2004, 10:05:06 pm »
Have you ever seen Picard with outout a shirt?

No.

You have to understand the acting of the times.

<S>

WT
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2004, 10:07:52 pm »
Have you ever seen Picard with outout a shirt?

No.

You have to understand the acting of the times.

<S>

WT

ROFL!!!

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2004, 10:09:58 pm »
Nevermind drowned wives in Hollywood swimming pools.

Who did that anyways?

THAT is something Picard would *never* do.

<S>

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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2004, 10:10:22 pm »
Sorry, Neither Kirk nor Picard deserve the rights as best captain...nor any of those other leading captains...the rights belong to Spock.

Right after Spock comes Riker.

Note...over half the times it wasn't Kirk or McCoy who figured things out...it was Spock.  And in the movies...it was Spock who always saved them...except that once in ST3...of course without him there to help them...they lost the ship!

And then there's Riker...

Who was the Captain that Beat Picard (actually Locutus)...That's Right...Riker!  Who was it that actually got the First Contact going in First Contact...that's Right...Riker!  Who was it that Saved Picard in Insurrection...That's right...Riker.  Okay...Riker was preoccupied in Nemesis...but still...he beat the real strategist of the Reman fleet...leaving Picard to beat that pansy clone of his.

Spock wins my vote for best captain...without Spock...Kirk would have...well died on one of his first missions as Captain of the Enterprise...

Of course, as for woman on Trek...here's a sexist comment...since people are saying Kirk was hot and manly...personally, I think Tasha Yar was hot!

 :-*

 :P
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2004, 10:11:03 pm »
Have you ever seen Picard with outout a shirt?

No.

You have to understand the acting of the times.

<S>

WT

Actually, yes, there are a few episodes where he loses his shirt...in fact there are some episodes he loses ALL of his clothes!
"All hominins are hominids, but not all hominids are hominins."


"Is this a Christian perspective?

Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?"

-------

We have whale farms in Jersey.   They're called McDonald's.

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2004, 10:23:43 pm »
Sorry, Neither Kirk nor Picard deserve the rights as best captain...nor any of those other leading captains...the rights belong to Spock.

Right after Spock comes Riker.

Note...over half the times it wasn't Kirk or McCoy who figured things out...it was Spock.  And in the movies...it was Spock who always saved them...except that once in ST3...of course without him there to help them...they lost the ship!

And then there's Riker...

Who was the Captain that Beat Picard (actually Locutus)...That's Right...Riker!  Who was it that actually got the First Contact going in First Contact...that's Right...Riker!  Who was it that Saved Picard in Insurrection...That's right...Riker.  Okay...Riker was preoccupied in Nemesis...but still...he beat the real strategist of the Reman fleet...leaving Picard to beat that pansy clone of his.

Spock wins my vote for best captain...without Spock...Kirk would have...well died on one of his first missions as Captain of the Enterprise...

Of course, as for woman on Trek...here's a sexist comment...since people are saying Kirk was hot and manly...personally, I think Tasha Yar was hot!

 :-*

 :P

Well, if you go along these lines, then it should be..... WESLEY CRUSHER!!!!!! 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Offline SSCF-LeRoy

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2004, 10:24:51 pm »
Sorry, Neither Kirk nor Picard deserve the rights as best captain...nor any of those other leading captains...the rights belong to Spock.

Right after Spock comes Riker.

Note...over half the times it wasn't Kirk or McCoy who figured things out...it was Spock.  And in the movies...it was Spock who always saved them...except that once in ST3...of course without him there to help them...they lost the ship!

And then there's Riker...

Who was the Captain that Beat Picard (actually Locutus)...That's Right...Riker!  Who was it that actually got the First Contact going in First Contact...that's Right...Riker!  Who was it that Saved Picard in Insurrection...That's right...Riker.  Okay...Riker was preoccupied in Nemesis...but still...he beat the real strategist of the Reman fleet...leaving Picard to beat that pansy clone of his.

Spock wins my vote for best captain...without Spock...Kirk would have...well died on one of his first missions as Captain of the Enterprise...

Of course, as for woman on Trek...here's a sexist comment...since people are saying Kirk was hot and manly...personally, I think Tasha Yar was hot!

 :-*

 :P

Well, if you go along these lines, then it should be..... WESLEY CRUSHER!!!!!! 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I see that you like 'em young then ;)

Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2004, 12:12:31 am »
Sorry, Neither Kirk nor Picard deserve the rights as best captain...nor any of those other leading captains...the rights belong to Spock.

Right after Spock comes Riker.

Note...over half the times it wasn't Kirk or McCoy who figured things out...it was Spock.  And in the movies...it was Spock who always saved them...except that once in ST3...of course without him there to help them...they lost the ship!

And then there's Riker...

Who was the Captain that Beat Picard (actually Locutus)...That's Right...Riker!  Who was it that actually got the First Contact going in First Contact...that's Right...Riker!  Who was it that Saved Picard in Insurrection...That's right...Riker.  Okay...Riker was preoccupied in Nemesis...but still...he beat the real strategist of the Reman fleet...leaving Picard to beat that pansy clone of his.

Spock wins my vote for best captain...without Spock...Kirk would have...well died on one of his first missions as Captain of the Enterprise...

Of course, as for woman on Trek...here's a sexist comment...since people are saying Kirk was hot and manly...personally, I think Tasha Yar was hot!

 :-*

 :P

I agree with you about Spock, he was great.

But wiker?

The only man with less spine than...I don't know how to finish that sentence, I usuially say Riker.

Merlin
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Offline Age

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2004, 12:22:03 am »
  He always had Class compared to Picard .He knew when shoot first and answer questions later unlike Picard.

Offline Chris SI

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2004, 07:55:03 am »
Hmm, without Shatner, there is no Star Trek.
Shatner was an acclaimed Broadway actor who had already made a name for himself on television before being offered the role in the second pilot.
Patrick Steward was an undistinguished character actor before TNG.
Avery Brooks was best known for a recurring role on Spencer for hire.
Kate Mulgrew was a last minute replacement for Voyager, was known for a stint on 'Cheers' as Sam Malone's love interest.
The latter actors all took off because of Trek, Shatner had a sucessful career before and after TOS.

As for who would win head to head, Kirk would in any contest against the later Capatins, all of whom could never match Kirk's natural leadership or excellent sense of tactics and timing (its all subjective, of course.)

As for being a 'womanizer' or jerk, 60s television required a certain amount of that, but they really made fun of this in the movies, especailly in ST IV and VI.

BTW, "Voyager" was a horrible show until 7 of 9 was introduced, and even after that, it was never top notch, it could be excellent at times, but it would snap back just as easily into pedantic.

I saw each show in order, so I can speak to it from that point of view, I can see how a modern gal might look down her nose at Kirk, but for the children of the 60s, Kirk, Spock and mcCoy will always be beaming down to some planet, and solving the unsolvable, beating the unbeatable, while performing in art-deco surroundings and on a ship that looks like a bad Ramada Inn on the inside.
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2004, 08:44:36 am »


I saw each show in order, so I can speak to it from that point of view, I can see how a modern gal might look down her nose at Kirk, but for the children of the 60s, Kirk, Spock and mcCoy will always be beaming down to some planet, and solving the unsolvable, beating the unbeatable, while performing in art-deco surroundings and on a ship that looks like a bad Ramada Inn on the inside.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  I love this discription!!!  Beautiful!


Offline Grim

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2004, 09:11:29 am »

Kirk was the best captain imo, also Wrath of Khan was my favourite trek film.

Offline hobbesmaster

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2004, 11:56:54 am »
Sisko is not only better than all the other captains, he pwnz0r3s all the other captains!  All the useful qualities of Kirk and Picard rolled into one!

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2004, 12:16:11 pm »
Sisko is not only better than all the other captains, he pwnz0r3s all the other captains!  All the useful qualities of Kirk and Picard rolled into one!

Agreed.  That and he looked cooler.
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2004, 12:40:16 pm »
BAh...Kirk Made Admiral AND got busted all the way back to captian....he is simply the best....he the guy you want to lead in UNKNOWN space....

Picard is a fine "loveboat" captain...dragging a bunch a civilians around KNOWN space....

Kirk's the guy who will break regs to save a friend...

Kirk's the guy who will violate the Prime directive WHEN ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO...

Picard is the guy who talked a crew into giving up life for nothing...when their ship could have been rigged to explode...

Kirk wouldnt have taken any crap from Q either....he would have firgured a way to pit another Q against him and neutralize him...

Kirk is the guy you want at the helm.....when you go where no MAN has gone before...

Cuz when I heard the opening to TNG the very first time....I knew is was down the PC hill we go....

Bah.....from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs....

That Idea has been behind the deaths of MILLIONs here in reality....it has no bussiness being offered up as a Science fiction Utopia...

Tos centered around the importance of the INDIVIDUAL over society....TNG centers around the needs of society being greater than the needs of the individial....

That why after TOS and TMP era.....my next fav Sci-Fi is B5....

"Sometimes the needs of the one...outweigh the needs of the few "....I think that says it all.

Offline The_Joker

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2004, 01:21:39 pm »

Kirk wouldnt have taken any crap from Q either....

Actually, I'd say this statement is more true than you might think.  I provide Gary Mithchell (Where No Man Has Gone Before), Charlie X, Sylvia and Korob (Catspaw), Apollo (Who Mourns for Adonais?) and especially the erstwhile Squire of Gothos, Trelane as specific examples of Kirk "not taking any sh*t" from godlike characters.
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Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2004, 02:57:31 pm »
=====

Picard is a fine "loveboat" captain...dragging a bunch a civilians around KNOWN space....
=====

Bravo.

Quote of the day and so true.

<S>

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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2004, 06:30:43 pm »

Kirk wouldnt have taken any crap from Q either....

Actually, I'd say this statement is more true than you might think.  I provide Gary Mithchell (Where No Man Has Gone Before), Charlie X, Sylvia and Korob (Catspaw), Apollo (Who Mourns for Adonais?) and especially the erstwhile Squire of Gothos, Trelane as specific examples of Kirk "not taking any sh*t" from godlike characters.

I'm not too sure of that.

Sisko tried to take that tack with Q, he ended up looking like an idiot.

Half the fun of the Q/Picard dynamic was watching Q throw endless insults and put-downs at the human race and having Picard keep his faith in humanity.

Even when Q was right.

There's a time and place for each tactic.

Merlin
Learned the Heart's Filthy Lesson from Joshua Watcher.

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Offline FPF-AJTK

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2004, 08:55:49 pm »
Oh Puh-LEAZE! Prick-not-so-hard was SUCH a crybaby puss that he had to get Kirks 140 year old but outa the treknobabble cosmic ribbon to kick the crap outa Soren, an old geezer that was hundreds of years old that bitch slapped picard.

Dont get me wrong, Picard was a decent Captain, and his shortcomings were not his fault.

Roddenberry split Kirk into 2 parts: Picard the thinker and Riker the warrior.

So Riker got to fight and get 99% of the trim on TNG and Picard got... a flute.

Here is the uber-point: Kirk NEVER woulda been a freakin BORG.

Picard = weenie
Kirk = MacDaddy


I liked Sisko, even if he was in command of a freaking glorified toll booth at the end of the wormhole.

I HATED Voyager, but yeah, Janeway was the closest to Kirk of any of the others.

I did like the boxing match between Sisko and Q, priceless.

RE-VER-SE: To move backwards, retrograde; movement that is not forward in nature.

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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2004, 03:58:57 am »
Oh Puh-LEAZE! Prick-not-so-hard was SUCH a crybaby puss that he had to get Kirks 140 year old but outa the treknobabble cosmic ribbon to kick the crap outa Soren, an old geezer that was hundreds of years old that bitch slapped picard.

Dont get me wrong, Picard was a decent Captain, and his shortcomings were not his fault.

Roddenberry split Kirk into 2 parts: Picard the thinker and Riker the warrior.

So Riker got to fight and get 99% of the trim on TNG and Picard got... a flute.

Here is the uber-point: Kirk NEVER woulda been a freakin BORG.

Picard = weenie
Kirk = MacDaddy


I liked Sisko, even if he was in command of a freaking glorified toll booth at the end of the wormhole.

I HATED Voyager, but yeah, Janeway was the closest to Kirk of any of the others.

I did like the boxing match between Sisko and Q, priceless.



HOLY sh*t.

Where did all that anger come from dude? It's just a TV show.

i disagree with 90% of your post but I don't start throwing insults left and right...

Just take a deep breath and realize it's just a TV show mate :).

Merlin
Learned the Heart's Filthy Lesson from Joshua Watcher.

The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world own shame.
-Oscar Wilde

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'
-Bob Newhart

Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
-Victor Hugo

He Took it all too far..but boy could he play guitar
-David Bowie, Ziggy Stardust

SSCF-Rolling

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2004, 05:41:42 am »
Uhhh.... yeah.

Boy, that kinda ruined this fun debate.

Time to go.

Offline Father Ted

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2004, 07:12:15 am »
If it weren't for Kirk, we wouldn't have Picard, Janeway, Cisco, and Archer to kick around. And without McCoy, we wouldn't have Crusher, Bashir, or the EMH(who was the funniest character on Voyager). Without Scotty, we wouldn't have.....

Point is, compare all you like, but without the originals, you wouldn't have the followups to compare them to. Paramount, Berman, and Braga owe a huge debt to the original series' cast for turning Trek into a phenomenon that outlasted its 60's heyday.

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Offline Gambler

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2004, 09:13:31 am »
I have to agree with AJTK about Picard and Kirk. 

What I hated most about Picard was the fact that he never made decisions without his staff in the ready room backing him up.

Typical TNG episode that I recall.

Something is going to destroy someone or something or hurt the crew.

Picard calls a meeting to discuss with the staff what should be done.

Staff does it, we win.


Typical TOS episode

Something is going to destroy someone, something or hurt the crew.

Kirk kicks it's ass.  Certainly with the help of his crew, but he's the leader.



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Offline Chris SI

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2004, 10:15:31 am »
Kirk led the way, but Picard had his moments.

The 'early' Picard seemed to be a designed weenie, the 'anti-Kirk' since Rodenberry didn't want another Kirk. This back-fired badly, as Steward looked like a useless weakling for about two years.

After that, we get a different Picard, confident, and not so willing to have his first officer or 'counciler' (WORST IDEA for a recurring role since Wesly) tell him what to do. The early episodes had the ludicrous scenes of Riker 'forbidding' Picard from doing things, and Troy wanting Picard to 'explain to the crew' why he had to scratch his backside, not exactly heroic.

Year three threw all that touchy-feely crap out an airlock, and TNG took off as a series from that point on.
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Offline Grim

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2004, 11:24:56 am »

Picard was my second favourite Trek captain after kirk, i basically grew up watching TNG.

Offline FPF-AJTK

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2004, 01:25:57 pm »
Uhhh.... yeah.

Boy, that kinda ruined this fun debate.

Time to go.

Ruined this fun debate?

Sorry, I didnt see the "G" rating on it for gimp.  ::)  :rofl:

 :rollingpin: :screwloose: ;)
RE-VER-SE: To move backwards, retrograde; movement that is not forward in nature.

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Offline FPF-AJTK

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2004, 01:28:27 pm »
Oh Puh-LEAZE! Prick-not-so-hard was SUCH a crybaby puss that he had to get Kirks 140 year old but outa the treknobabble cosmic ribbon to kick the crap outa Soren, an old geezer that was hundreds of years old that bitch slapped picard.

Dont get me wrong, Picard was a decent Captain, and his shortcomings were not his fault.

Roddenberry split Kirk into 2 parts: Picard the thinker and Riker the warrior.

So Riker got to fight and get 99% of the trim on TNG and Picard got... a flute.

Here is the uber-point: Kirk NEVER woulda been a freakin BORG.

Picard = weenie
Kirk = MacDaddy


I liked Sisko, even if he was in command of a freaking glorified toll booth at the end of the wormhole.

I HATED Voyager, but yeah, Janeway was the closest to Kirk of any of the others.

I did like the boxing match between Sisko and Q, priceless.



HOLY sh*t.

Where did all that anger come from dude? It's just a TV show.

i disagree with 90% of your post but I don't start throwing insults left and right...

Just take a deep breath and realize it's just a TV show mate :).

Merlin

Psst... Merlin.. I KNOW its just a tv show, perhaps you dont?

Afterall, its kinda hard to throw an insult at an imaginary character on a piece of (choose the media of your choice)

 :rofl:
RE-VER-SE: To move backwards, retrograde; movement that is not forward in nature.

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Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2004, 01:35:11 pm »
Quote
What I hated most about Picard was the fact that he never made decisions without his staff in the ready room backing him up.

Agreed.

Kirk made decisions in the captain's chair. Good or bad -- the proper place for command decisions.

He didn't need an entire staff to give the green light, like Picard.

<S>

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2004, 07:55:56 pm »
 Sorry guys Jane way has my vote.

 she stood her ground like a lion defending her cubs, And did not take crud from anyone.
 
 Built a crew out of a group of people that hated each others guts, Into one of Star Fleets best.

 Would do absolutely anything to protect her crew. ( Now would you want to be the guy in the red shirt with Kirk around?).

 Kicked the Borg Queens arse.

Offline Grim

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2004, 08:02:06 pm »

Bah Janeway, true she protected her crew however her voice could curdle blood, not my choice as best trek captain at all.

Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2004, 08:52:57 pm »
Oh Puh-LEAZE! Prick-not-so-hard was SUCH a crybaby puss that he had to get Kirks 140 year old but outa the treknobabble cosmic ribbon to kick the crap outa Soren, an old geezer that was hundreds of years old that bitch slapped picard.

Dont get me wrong, Picard was a decent Captain, and his shortcomings were not his fault.

Roddenberry split Kirk into 2 parts: Picard the thinker and Riker the warrior.

So Riker got to fight and get 99% of the trim on TNG and Picard got... a flute.

Here is the uber-point: Kirk NEVER woulda been a freakin BORG.

Picard = weenie
Kirk = MacDaddy


I liked Sisko, even if he was in command of a freaking glorified toll booth at the end of the wormhole.

I HATED Voyager, but yeah, Janeway was the closest to Kirk of any of the others.

I did like the boxing match between Sisko and Q, priceless.



HOLY sh*t.

Where did all that anger come from dude? It's just a TV show.

i disagree with 90% of your post but I don't start throwing insults left and right...

Just take a deep breath and realize it's just a TV show mate :).

Merlin

Psst... Merlin.. I KNOW its just a tv show, perhaps you dont?

Afterall, its kinda hard to throw an insult at an imaginary character on a piece of (choose the media of your choice)

 :rofl:

You go off on a wild Star Trek Shooting spree and call me out of control?

...

Fascinating.

Merlin
Learned the Heart's Filthy Lesson from Joshua Watcher.

The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world own shame.
-Oscar Wilde

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'
-Bob Newhart

Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
-Victor Hugo

He Took it all too far..but boy could he play guitar
-David Bowie, Ziggy Stardust

SSCF-Rolling

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2004, 10:35:06 pm »
Frankly, I think I'm the best captain!  So there!!!  :P

Offline SSCF-LeRoy

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2004, 11:42:26 pm »
Well, you have the highest karma rating, so yer definately the most popular ;D

Offline FPF-AJTK

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2004, 06:18:29 pm »
Janeway would NOT do anything to save her crew. When Q first appeared on Voyager, he offered to send Voyager home IF Janeway would sleep with him. She wouldnt, so he didnt. Case closed, she wouldnt simply have sex with Q to save her entire crew?

Kirk woulda. Riker woulda. Picard probably woulda. Sisiko mighta.

Janeway didnt. wouldnt.

Merlin: "Shooting spree"?  :point:
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Ravok

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2004, 08:25:44 pm »
Janeway would NOT do anything to save her crew. When Q first appeared on Voyager, he offered to send Voyager home IF Janeway would sleep with him. She wouldnt, so he didnt. Case closed, she wouldnt simply have sex with Q to save her entire crew?

Kirk woulda. Riker woulda. Picard probably woulda. Sisiko mighta.

Janeway didnt. wouldnt.

Merlin: "Shooting spree"?  :point:

  ;) :lame: :smackhead: Picard would have gone into a long diatribe, Over the moral reasons he should not sleep with Q.
 Kirk, Ryker and especially Sisco would have belted him in the mouth.
 Q just did not want to sleep with Jane Way he wanted her to have his baby. ( Real big difference)
 Picard let the Borg kill about 50 of his crew when Q forced them to meet the Borg. When he refused to let Q join his crew.

Offline Age

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2004, 08:32:52 pm »
  I have to go with Father Ted on this one.

Offline hobbesmaster

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2004, 08:34:30 pm »
Quote
What I hated most about Picard was the fact that he never made decisions without his staff in the ready room backing him up.

Agreed.

Kirk made decisions in the captain's chair. Good or bad -- the proper place for command decisions.

He didn't need an entire staff to give the green light, like Picard.

<S>

WaterTiger

Same for Sisko, watch that Maquis episode where he orders the destruction of a planet to the shock of his bridge staff.

Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2004, 10:03:04 am »
Janeway would NOT do anything to save her crew. When Q first appeared on Voyager, he offered to send Voyager home IF Janeway would sleep with him. She wouldnt, so he didnt. Case closed, she wouldnt simply have sex with Q to save her entire crew?

Kirk woulda. Riker woulda. Picard probably woulda. Sisiko mighta.

Janeway didnt. wouldnt.

Merlin: "Shooting spree"?  :point:

  ;) :lame: :smackhead: Picard would have gone into a long diatribe, Over the moral reasons he should not sleep with Q.
 Kirk, Ryker and especially Sisco would have belted him in the mouth.
 Q just did not want to sleep with Jane Way he wanted her to have his baby. ( Real big difference)
 Picard let the Borg kill about 50 of his crew when Q forced them to meet the Borg. When he refused to let Q join his crew.

How in hell did yet another thread turn to the topic of sexual intercourse?
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Offline Gambler

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2004, 12:05:44 pm »
How in hell did yet another thread turn to the topic of sexual intercourse?
With this bunch can it do anything but?
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2004, 12:51:36 pm »
Kroma would have sex with Q to save his/her/it's crew, but only if Q "caught."   :rofl:
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Age

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2004, 01:36:55 pm »
Frankly, I think I'm the best captain!  So there!!!  :P
No comment.

Offline The_Joker

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2004, 02:07:10 am »
Quote
With this bunch can it do anything but?

Who's butt?
"Look at him now, poor fellow. That's what a dose of reality does for you... Never touch the stuff myself, you understand. Find it gets in the way of the hallucinations."

Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2004, 09:41:48 pm »
Janeway would NOT do anything to save her crew. When Q first appeared on Voyager, he offered to send Voyager home IF Janeway would sleep with him. She wouldnt, so he didnt. Case closed, she wouldnt simply have sex with Q to save her entire crew?

Kirk woulda. Riker woulda. Picard probably woulda. Sisiko mighta.

Janeway didnt. wouldnt.

Merlin: "Shooting spree"?  :point:


Oh Puh-LEAZE! Prick-not-so-hard was SUCH a crybaby puss that he had to get Kirks 140 year old but outa the treknobabble cosmic ribbon to kick the crap outa Soren, an old geezer that was hundreds of years old that bitch slapped picard.

Dont get me wrong, Picard was a decent Captain, and his shortcomings were not his fault.

Roddenberry split Kirk into 2 parts: Picard the thinker and Riker the warrior.

So Riker got to fight and get 99% of the trim on TNG and Picard got... a flute.

Here is the uber-point: Kirk NEVER woulda been a freakin BORG.

Picard = weenie
Kirk = MacDaddy


I liked Sisko, even if he was in command of a freaking glorified toll booth at the end of the wormhole.

I HATED Voyager, but yeah, Janeway was the closest to Kirk of any of the others.

I did like the boxing match between Sisko and Q, priceless.



I rest my case.

And let me get this straight...you are critisizing Janeway for being responsible for the life she might create?

Would you rather it if she imitated the current N.O.W. trend of concequences to the wind--along with the blouse?

...

That says a lot.

Merlin
Learned the Heart's Filthy Lesson from Joshua Watcher.

The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world own shame.
-Oscar Wilde

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'
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Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
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He Took it all too far..but boy could he play guitar
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Offline FPF-AJTK

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2004, 08:49:31 pm »
Um, No, If were going to bring politics into it, I am a Republican with all that entails.

HOWEVER, if we can kindly stick to the subject at hand. She could have saved her entire crew from what at the time looked to be a death sentence in the delta quadrant (in as much as they never thought they could get back to the alpha quadrant) simply by having sex with Q. Have a kid? Big deal. She has the equipment for it.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
RE-VER-SE: To move backwards, retrograde; movement that is not forward in nature.

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Offline Hyperion

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2004, 12:21:42 am »
I rahter got to like Jean Luc Picard, he's not kirk and was never meant to be. Kirk was great for the sort of rough and tumble times of the Federation at the time.
"Who is this god person anyways ?"

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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2004, 12:26:08 am »
*gets into enviro suit that the Roms use to board Tholian ships*

I like Janeway best, out of all the non-Kirk captians. She is thoughtful and considerate, and yet full of moxie if the situation demands action.

And she would look best in a shirt hopelessly ripped beyond repair ;)
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

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Offline Chris SI

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2004, 11:39:14 am »
Only if you have a fetish for old ladies.
Taldren poster known as FFZ

Offline J. Carney

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2004, 12:16:06 pm »
Only if you have a fetish for old ladies.

She's not that old, nor (honestly) does she look bad for a woman in her 40's.

When you factor in her spunky attitude and that 2nd Alto voice she has she gets kind of a Luaren Bacall-ish quality.

I could see her teasing a guy like Bacall did John Wayne in the movies that they did togeather...

"Eh, Baby?"
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Chris SI

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2004, 12:25:05 pm »
If you said seven of nine in the ripped shirt, ok.
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2004, 12:26:34 pm »
If you said seven of nine in the ripped shirt, ok.[/b]

Would never happen, Seven couldn't wear a ripped shirt...

the shirt would self-distruct from a massive containment breach!
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Chris SI

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2004, 12:29:47 pm »
I wouldn't mind a little of THAT kind of damage control duty...[/color]
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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2004, 01:22:27 am »
If you said seven of nine in the ripped shirt, ok.
  :) :) :)They could put that on pay per view, And i would gladly pay to see that!!! :o :o :o :popcorn: :drink:

Offline Hyperion

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2004, 01:36:26 am »
How about Johnny Depp?

Id love to see his Character transferred from "Once upon a time in Mexico" to a starship captain

Muwawawawwawawaw!!

Evil!

 :lol:
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Offline Gambler

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Re: Kirk #1 Trek captain
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2004, 10:18:53 am »
I'm a Man
But I can change
If I have to
I guess


WWJKD - What Would Jim Kirk Do

I thank God I grew up in an age when a kid could still play with things that could put his eye out.