Topic: Let Trek lie fallow for 2 years, and then...

[Desty Nova]

Four words:

Star Trek: General War

It would follow the adventures of Captain Phlilip Kosnett (the second most famous captain in Starfleet) and his ship, the Federation command cruiser Kongo. We would get to view his exploits fighting the Romulans, Lyrans, and Klingons throughout the General War, ultimately leading up to "Operation Cavalry", the final allied assault on Klinshai.
But that's not the end of the series, after the General War seems to have died down, suddenly a new foe appears to threaten the Federation: The Interstellar Concordium. The Kongo and her valiant crew must fight with all they have to keep the accursed "peacekeepers" from overrunning the galaxy!
But just when things seem at their darkest, things get a whole lot worse: Invaders from Andromeda storm the Milky Way and they seem dead set on conquest! Watch as the Kongo tries desperately to stem the tide of the invasion. It all leads up to one final gamble: Operation Unity. A huge fleet with representatives from every major race makes the long journey to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to assault the Andromedans' base of operations and end this horrible war for the sake of all life!

Being an SFB diehard, this would be my fricking dream come true.     

[Red_Green]

Four words:

Star Trek: General War

It would follow the adventures of Captain Phlilip Kosnett (the second most famous captain in Starfleet) and his ship, the Federation command cruiser Kongo. We would get to view his exploits fighting the Romulans, Lyrans, and Klingons throughout the General War, ultimately leading up to "Operation Cavalry", the final allied assault on Klinshai.
But that's not the end of the series, after the General War seems to have died down, suddenly a new foe appears to threaten the Federation: The Interstellar Concordium. The Kongo and her valiant crew must fight with all they have to keep the accursed "peacekeepers" from overrunning the galaxy!
But just when things seem at their darkest, things get a whole lot worse: Invaders from Andromeda storm the Milky Way and they seem dead set on conquest! Watch as the Kongo tries desperately to stem the tide of the invasion. It all leads up to one final gamble: Operation Unity. A huge fleet with representatives from every major race makes the long journey to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to assault the Andromedans' base of operations and end this horrible war for the sake of all life!

Being an SFB diehard, this would be my fricking dream come true.     

This is what I want as well. Only with updated TNG style ships. The story is good and would even sustain non-trek and non-SFB fans I believe.  I also (as I believe someone stated earlier) do not want to see the Enterprise continued in any shape or form. The sooner the Enterprise show is canceled, the sooner they can try something fresh. They do need to give it a rest  for a while.

[Merlinfmct87]

Four words:

Star Trek: General War

It would follow the adventures of Captain Phlilip Kosnett (the second most famous captain in Starfleet) and his ship, the Federation command cruiser Kongo. We would get to view his exploits fighting the Romulans, Lyrans, and Klingons throughout the General War, ultimately leading up to "Operation Cavalry", the final allied assault on Klinshai.
But that's not the end of the series, after the General War seems to have died down, suddenly a new foe appears to threaten the Federation: The Interstellar Concordium. The Kongo and her valiant crew must fight with all they have to keep the accursed "peacekeepers" from overrunning the galaxy!
But just when things seem at their darkest, things get a whole lot worse: Invaders from Andromeda storm the Milky Way and they seem dead set on conquest! Watch as the Kongo tries desperately to stem the tide of the invasion. It all leads up to one final gamble: Operation Unity. A huge fleet with representatives from every major race makes the long journey to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to assault the Andromedans' base of operations and end this horrible war for the sake of all life!

Being an SFB diehard, this would be my fricking dream come true.     

That would be fanatstic...Operation Calvary anyone?

Merlin

[Chris SI]

A show based on a giant war would grow old after a time, DS 9 got a way with it for two years, but it does get dull.

The best time to fill IMO is the 70 years between TOS and TNG, but not with Sulu, I'd like to see new faces.

[SghnDubh]

Takei is probably retired by now anyway...

[Magnum357]

Ya, I'm sure he would be optomistic in still doing the Sulu role, but he is quite old.  But that does not mean the lost era could not be done as a single movie.  Heck, have it like a triology.  For example, how about the final episodes of the Enterprise B, or maybe even Enterprise C for a Movie Trilogy.  If time was put into it like Star Trek 2 and 3 where, I think it would be one kick butt trilogy saga.  Maybe even have the Excelcor, where Sulu is much older, trying too help save the Enterprise C, or have his Daughter involved in the Trilogoy.  Lots could be done too make a fine movie saga of the lost era in my opinion.

[J. Carney]

We need to let the TOS cast rest, guys. They are all in their late 50's and early 60's (save Nemoy and I know that he's 70+ and I think that Dohan is, too- he was in his early 60's when his last kid was born!).

We need young blood, we can keep the old traditions, but a changuing of the guard is definately in order.

[Chris SI]

Doohan is 84, Nimoy is 73, William Shatner is also 73 (they are only 4 days apart age wise).

Couldn't find how old Takai is, but he has to be at least 60.

[Magnum357]

You wouldn't nessessarly need the TOS cast too make a "Lost Era" movie or Trilogy, like I said, Sulu's Daughter or have a later crew for the Excelcior during the lost era.  We know the Excelcior (at least all indications say) that the Excelcior was used all the way up too the 2360's (maybe even later), why not have the Excelcior displayed in a glorified Trilogy of the lost Era much like the Constitution class Enterprise was glorified for so many years during the 23rd century.  This would at least give Paramont something to do for the next decade until it can come up with a good Star Trek TV show again.

[Lepton]

Some quick ideas:

1.  No one seems to realize trek fans love space battles.  Big space battles.  A war-based trek show would sure piss off trek fans who think that Gene is god, but it would sure make alot of other people happy.  A Federation-Klingon war sounds perfect for that.

2.  Trek fails on so many levels to be true science-fiction that it is a crying shame.  All those who poop on "the five year mission" idea of exploration have absolutely no idea of what that might actually look like if it were done right.  One thing Enterprise has had going for it is something really basic.  Ocassionally, they run into folks that don't speak the same language.  I always hated the English-in-space crap. One of the best TNG shows in my estimation was the one with the race that spoke in mythological metaphors.  Now, that is alien.  Yet, it only scrapes the surface of what could be done with Trek.  Trek unfortunately has almost always been human-type problems in space.  Boring.  I know the dimensionality of the human condition, etc, etc.  I don't need a television show to make me think I am a thoughtful person.  I'd like to see something that isn't, that hasn't been, not something I know like the back of my hand.  Wasn't this Q's whole point in its trial of mankind??

[J. Carney]

Some quick ideas:

1.  No one seems to realize trek fans love space battles.  Big space battles.  A war-based trek show would sure piss off trek fans who think that Gene is god, but it would sure make alot of other people happy.  A Federation-Klingon war sounds perfect for that.

2.  Trek fails on so many levels to be true science-fiction that it is a crying shame.  All those who poop on "the five year mission" idea of exploration have absolutely no idea of what that might actually look like if it were done right.  One thing Enterprise has had going for it is something really basic.  Ocassionally, they run into folks that don't speak the same language.  I always hated the English-in-space crap. One of the best TNG shows in my estimation was the one with the race that spoke in mythological metaphors.  Now, that is alien.  Yet, it only scrapes the surface of what could be done with Trek.  Trek unfortunately has almost always been human-type problems in space.  Boring.  I know the dimensionality of the human condition, etc, etc.  I don't need a television show to make me think I am a thoughtful person.  I'd like to see something that isn't, that hasn't been, not something I know like the back of my hand.  Wasn't this Q's whole point in its trial of mankind??

Lepton...

Trek isn't science fiction, you got that right. It was Gene Rodenberry's creative camo for a political commentary on the 1960's... just like M*A*S*H* used the Korean war to hide it's critique of the Vietnam War.

It was meant to help people look at the problems of the time from a detached point of view, and see just how 'alien' two people who looked different hating each other could be.

If you remove the introspective quality, then you loose what made Trek stick around longer than Buck Rodgers or Flash Gordon.

[Merlinfmct87]

Absolutly true.

And I happen to believe that Q got a couple points right.

Merlin

[Lepton]

Like I say, I don't need my sci-fi or comedy shows to have pseudo-political commentary in it (except the Simpsons, of course).  I get enough of the real thing in a more serious context.  How I have always thought of sci-fi was a way of recontextualizing and reducing human problems and the "human condition" to something of little importance. I've always hated that "it's our humanity that makes us great" crap.  It's so eurocentric especially when the thing we were always comparing ourselves to in Trek was some totalitarian strong man or some wacky narrow-minded society.  Whoopee!  Aren't we great??!!!

[J. Carney]

Like I say, I don't need my sci-fi or comedy shows to have pseudo-political commentary in it (except the Simpsons, of course).  I get enough of the real thing in a more serious context.  How I have always thought of sci-fi was a way of recontextualizing and reducing human problems and the "human condition" to something of little importance. I've always hated that "it's our humanity that makes us great" crap.  It's so eurocentric especially when the thing we were always comparing ourselves to in Trek was some totalitarian strong man or some wacky narrow-minded society.  Whoopee!  Aren't we great??!!!

You like Enterprise, don't you ?

Star Trek compared humanity to those characters because, like it or not, they were plentiful characters at the time. The biggots in the US were a whacky narrowminded socioty, and the USSR, Cuba, China, N. Vietnam were all totalitarian strongmen. They were problems that needed to be addressed and solved.

You couldn't come out and say that on the news however. Cronkite couldn't say "Racists are assholes" and get away with it, so Rodenbery took us out into space and made us journey through the human condition on (planed) 5 year mission to realize just how far we had to go till we could get to the stars.

Take that out and you will be getting rid of Trek... period.

You couldn't even call it Star Trek... you'd have to call it something different... like Enterprise.

[Lepton]

Like I say, I don't need my sci-fi or comedy shows to have pseudo-political commentary in it (except the Simpsons, of course).  I get enough of the real thing in a more serious context.  How I have always thought of sci-fi was a way of recontextualizing and reducing human problems and the "human condition" to something of little importance. I've always hated that "it's our humanity that makes us great" crap.  It's so eurocentric especially when the thing we were always comparing ourselves to in Trek was some totalitarian strong man or some wacky narrow-minded society.  Whoopee!  Aren't we great??!!!

You like Enterprise, don't you ?

Star Trek compared humanity to those characters because, like it or not, they were plentiful characters at the time. The biggots in the US were a whacky narrowminded socioty, and the USSR, Cuba, China, N. Vietnam were all totalitarian strongmen. They were problems that needed to be addressed and solved.

You couldn't come out and say that on the news however. Cronkite couldn't say "Racists are assholes" and get away with it, so Rodenbery took us out into space and made us journey through the human condition on (planed) 5 year mission to realize just how far we had to go till we could get to the stars.

Take that out and you will be getting rid of Trek... period.

You couldn't even call it Star Trek... you'd have to call it something different... like Enterprise.

Enterprise I would say is a good deal more morally complex than TOS or TNG.  Those shows always had very convenient targets for criticism and it was never the commanders or the heros themselves under scrutiny, always the Other, be it nasty aliens or power hungry feds.  The protagonists were always in a position of moral superiority for the most part.  However in Enterprise, you have questionable actions being done by the primary guys all in service of saving humanity and his struggle with it.  That seems a good deal more introspective than Kirk's cowboy justice or Picard's moral supercilious demeanor, although I love Picard as the consumate diplomat, intellect, and explorer.

[J. Carney]

Lepton...

I just can't get into the 'superior high ground' topic involving Enterprise... because since the Vulcans seem to have cornered the market on it in that show, a human would never be allowed to comment upon it.

And Trek is all about the moral high ground. It shows people in an entertaining way what problems we need to solve to really get to the elusive 'moral high ground.'

The Federation was one man's ideal view of what humanity could achive if man managed to conquer his problems and set aside his differences. It was a world where men really were judged on character alone... even the fact that Checkov was a devout 'New Soviet Man' did not keep him fro being accepted.

ANd as for Picard- he might have been a wreckless, wildcat explorer on the Stargazer, but on the Big E... he was just a wuss.

[SghnDubh]

Don't hijack my thread. 

It's ridiculous to say that Trek isn't science fiction. Of course it is. Don't confuse the point. Nearly all outstanding fiction has allegorical elements; if the audience can't see themselves in the story, or if the story doesn't speak to something either basic in the human condition or topical for the audience, it won't catch much attention.

TOS was more often than not allegorical in its day; TNG was as well. Voyager, DS9, and to an extent Enterprise are much more character-driven and that probably contributes to why they're not as popular. Nemisis failed because while it tried to address (allegorically) the ethics of cloning, it failed to weave a good story around the point.

Bottom line is Trek went really wrong with B&B. Give it a rest, then come back and tell me a great story, explore current problems with our world today in a way that we can't otherwise, and do it without a bunch of temporal crap, in keeping with the old Trek look & feel, in ships that kick a little ass. Oh and give me a few explosions. And a Vulcan that doesn't have a crush on the captain. Oh yeah, and more explosions. And Jeri Ryan nekkid. MMMmmm, Jeri Ryan.

 

[J. Carney]

Don't hijack my thread.  ...

. Oh and give me a few explosions. And a Vulcan that doesn't have a crush on the captain. Oh yeah, and more explosions. And Jeri Ryan nekkid. MMMmmm, Jeri Ryan.

 

Oh, yes, my friend... now we get down to the real reason for Trek:

*Booms*
     &
  Babes 

Everything else is just window dressing.


*Hopes everyone sees the humor in this*

[Dash Jones]

Some quick ideas:

1.  No one seems to realize trek fans love space battles.  Big space battles.  A war-based trek show would sure piss off trek fans who think that Gene is god, but it would sure make alot of other people happy.  A Federation-Klingon war sounds perfect for that.

2.  Trek fails on so many levels to be true science-fiction that it is a crying shame.  All those who poop on "the five year mission" idea of exploration have absolutely no idea of what that might actually look like if it were done right.  One thing Enterprise has had going for it is something really basic.  Ocassionally, they run into folks that don't speak the same language.  I always hated the English-in-space crap. One of the best TNG shows in my estimation was the one with the race that spoke in mythological metaphors.  Now, that is alien.  Yet, it only scrapes the surface of what could be done with Trek.  Trek unfortunately has almost always been human-type problems in space.  Boring.  I know the dimensionality of the human condition, etc, etc.  I don't need a television show to make me think I am a thoughtful person.  I'd like to see something that isn't, that hasn't been, not something I know like the back of my hand.  Wasn't this Q's whole point in its trial of mankind??

The Episode was called Darmok...I just watched it again recently!

I consider TOS good science fiction.  I think there's a difference between a SciFi Opera like Star Wars, and real Science Fiction.  Real Science Fiction explores the human morality and emotion, as well as possible futures in that arena, not just with the physical, but with societal and moral advances.  I think TOS, TNG, and even DS9 sometimes explored those arenas.  I think Enterprise attempts to sometimes, but most times they are so intent on keeping a main storyline, with action, adventure, and sex going that they forget the Science part, and only include the Space Opera part.

But overall, I find Star Trek as a whole, almost exemplary of what Science Fiction is...and not most of what is called Science Fiction in the modern time (post 1990) as most of it isn't Science Fiction...but Space Opera.

[Merlinfmct87]

Something my Art & Literature teacher is CONSTANTLY drilling into me is to look at art in context. TOS is "campy" and "sexist" because the writers saw a very real wrong in the world and that it was being filmed during the Sexual Revolution.

TNG is wimpy because it is swinging towards the opposite of the current generation, the ME generation.

DS9 I can't comment on, because I couldn't stomach to watch it.

Voyager was, in my eyes, pure magic. Something that looked at the world through unfiltered eyes.

Enterprise is making the fatal mistake of posing for the crowd. I've still got my Star Trek: Judgement Rights Collector's Edition with the interview of Gene Roddenberry, and he said the highest mistake any writer can make is to prostitute himself to the audiance. Once the writer's get their guts back and get Archer out of Xindi-land, it will be as good as it was before.

Many things from times gone by look strange, weird or wicked. Certainly Alice in Wonderland can be very disturbing if you read it right. The historical context is that children's reading material at the time before that was preacy, superior, poorly written, and dry. It was, in essence, a child observing an adult's world and trying to make sense of it.

You could easily make a case for "Wonderland" to being adulthood.

Once again, you have to look at in historical context.

P.S. I realize that, in a post spouting emotional absense the praise of Voyager and the condemnation of DS9 does not fit, and I apologize.

Merlin