Topic: Let Trek lie fallow for 2 years, and then...

[SghnDubh]

Bring on the Adventures of the Enterprise C.

What do you all think?

[Rod ONeal]

One year sounds better.

[Commander Maxillius]

I say a have ST 11 play off the entire Enterprise series as nothing more than an alternate timeline that the end of the Temporal War destroyed :p

[Rallye72]

As cute as I think Jolene Blalock is in that tight uniform the current series is stale and predicatable. There's no reason to expect that a new series or movie will do any better with the current group of folks running the "franchise". 

If they want to do something new how about "Star Trek: The Klingons"  or a series that alternates story lines among the various races. No more seven year voyages following the same cast but rather one time stories following the adventures of different crews. It would be an opportunity to show case some new unknown talent and cast a wider net for writers with an actual story to tell. I'd like to see "The Klingons" because they're not always good guys - in fact a darker story line with an edge would be a relief. No more blather such as "today is a good day to die" - what crap.  It wouldn't have to run weekly - 2 to  4 good,quality shows per year would be fine.  For those of you who saw the new BS Galacticsa mini-series (which I loved and look forward to more of) if St were to move along a similiar quality story and cast line I think it would see a major revival.

My 2cents.

Rallye72

[Chris SI]

I see little value in letting it go, in fact, the further you get from activity, the harder it will be to get Trek shows on the air.

B-5 was brilliant, yet I don't see anyone making more B-5 shows.

Time off=dead in my opinion.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Kirk is dead ... It's been 1 1/2 years already.

[The Pelican]

I see little value in letting it go, in fact, the further you get from activity, the harder it will be to get Trek shows on the air.

B-5 was brilliant, yet I don't see anyone making more B-5 shows.

Time off=dead in my opinion.

Actually, they still make the odd B-5 movie every now and again.

Straczynski wants to do a Trek series at the moment, but he wants it to be HIS Trek series, not to write for Enterprise.

Hopefully, B&B will take a back seat from now on, and let Manny Coto do the work, he seems to have some good ideas.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

www.btinternet.com/~bbkuk/sulumain.htm

[NannerSlug]

yeah, "excelsior" would have been better than enterprise by far.

[SSCF-LeRoy]

Bring on the Adventures of the Enterprise C.

What do you all think?

The problem with that idea is that everybody's gonna know what's gonna happen in the series finale ahead of time

[SghnDubh]

Bring on the Adventures of the Enterprise C.

What do you all think?

The problem with that idea is that everybody's gonna know what's gonna happen in the series finale ahead of time

yeah, but some of the best literature in the world tells you the ending first. And besides, IT WOULD BE THE FIRST TREK STORY WHERE THE GOOD GUYS DON'T WIN! 

[Mentat Jon]

I agree let it rest, OR BUILD A SHOW AROUND CAPT SULU!!!!! 

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

I agree let it rest, OR BUILD A SHOW AROUND CAPT SULU!!!!! 

wurd

[Magnum357]

I personally don't want too see a continuation of Enterprise.  I thought it was nice that B & B took my advice of an alternate timeline idea, but the series is back and forth all the time and now with "Alien Nazies" on earth in... well... whatever time period that happened in, I'm just kind of tired of Enterprise.  I would like too etheir do an Excelcior Series or continue on where DS9 left off after the Dominon War. 

I mean, their is still a lot of story that can be done after the Dominoin War.  Why not show the repercutions of the Dominion War on the Federation and other Alpha quadrant powers?  And what about the Jem Hedar?  We saw in many episodes where Alpha Quadrant Jems acted different then Gamma Quadrant Jems.  Their is a sh#t load of more story available for a creative writer too work with.  I would think continuing on with a story like this can easily be done, especailly with JMS (B-5 creator) at the helm of the story writing, I think it would be a hit!  And their is still a ton of unknown space unexplored in the Alpha quadrant beyond federation space.  And still unexplored Gamma Quadrant space aswell.  Like I said, an endless amount of possible stories availabe too work with. 

I'm tired of Enterprise, lets get back too the 24th century please.   

[SghnDubh]

Yeah, but Magnum, the seek out new worlds thing's getting tired both ways: forward: Enterprise, or backwards: Voyager. Since it seems like Trek's only getting about 4 or 5 good seasons out of a run, you'd have a year of Enterprise C fighting Klingons (very fun to watch) and then maybe you switch it up a little and they fight some Romulans (also very fun to watch) and Poof, before you know it there's 2 years. Then, years 3 & 4 the Enterprise C fights BOTH Klinks & Rommies. Cool and, yes, still fun to watch. In the last season, they fight klinks, then roms, discover like maybe 1 new civilization...then they fight more Klinks in the last final battle, get blown up, and a bunch of Klingons look at each other and say, "Grazku't bla-oh-ak" or whatever Klink is for "damn that blowed up reel good. I hear they make great Ga'gh at Kittohmer." 

Hey, seriously---here's an idea: We get like 4 episodes of Enterprise C, then it gets blown up, then the rest of the series is from the Klingon's perspective. I'd watch that.

[J. Carney]

Why not do a show that doesn't focus on anyone?

I had an idea when SFC 2 first same out and people started posting 'battle scene' screenshots (SFC 1 just looked a little cartoonish, the ilumination maps made the difference) of all their models fighting each other.The game even gave me an idea for the name of the project:

Star Trek: Echos of the Empires

In this concept, you don't stay tied down to one central group of characters, or ship or even one Emipre. Instead we jump every week from one Empire to the next, seeing a glimpse of life in each one. You could come up with some far-reaching theme- like a series of Tholian raids- and play it out over a period ranging from a few weeks to a whole season, showing the events from all points of view: the Federation, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Tholians, the Cardasians, ect.

This would really let fans get to see more of the popular races that up until now have just been the 'Guest Alien of the Week' (tm).

The storylines wouldn't be limited by needing to connect with any previous or future ones other than a simple continuity of events. None of the soap opera type "Die and come back on another show or network" situations. If the Romulans destroy the Intrepid in one episode, it can't show up in another show unless it takes place in the past, and Intrepid still has to die at the hands of the Imperium.

With the advantages that computer models present over the studio models- both in monitary and physical terms- you could have the fleets for every race in the show stored on computer in less than 10 GB of space for really good, high-res models. You could put these ships through any necessary paces with no need for building new models for every individual ship, and you could have as many of each kind of ship as you need in any shot.

Sets and costumes for this idea would be no more demanding than current Trek shows, since you would use the same general set model for each ship of a class and have to keep a sizable backstock of each type of uniform simply to outfit the extras.

The studio would even save money on actors, because they could use fresh talent (which aare cheaper to begin with), like extras on another show that might be ready to take the next step; this would also limit the influence of the 'Superstar' syndrome on contract issues, preventing an actor from demanding an exorbinant salary for his work.

It sounds like a good idea to me... oppinions?

[Magnum357]

SghnDubh, a new series wouldn't have too focus on exploration.  Their is a whole crap load of stuff happening in the "lost Era" and after the Dominion War that would make an awsome show.  it wouldn't have too deal with huge wars and such.  For example, what ever the main focus of the series would be, it could have a main arc of the political tentions that occured after the Dominion War.  Or where a Dominion Civil War occurs that destroy lots of stuff in the Gamma Quadrant the Feds, Klingons, Roms need too restore order too the area but have a problem of a new 'man of fest destiny" with each empire.  Heck, have a series about Section 31 involved in all this to.  I'm just saying if JMS was too take over the helm of Star Trek story writing, I really think the guy could come up with some very unique and intriging story ideas, more then just "lets start a war and blow things up so it looks cool". 

Paramont should seriously consider letting this guy take the helm of Trek.

[Magnum357]

Hey J. Carney, a very neat concept their too.  It might be hard too implement into a series, but very interesting idea.

[J. Carney]

Hey J. Carney, a very neat concept their too.  It might be hard too implement into a series, but very interesting idea.

That was the thing, Magnum... it isn't really a 'series' as such. It's more like a collection of short stories on a common theme, like the Strange New Worlds story contest that they made collection books out of each year for a while there.

The only series-like aspect would be that it had to maintain continuity with the accepted Trek timeline and with the events that happen within the show. It would be no harder than a series format- in fact, it might be easier, since you don't have to be linier with the time frame. The action can take place anywhere, anywhen- and as long as you keep that outcome the same from show to show, you don't hvae any other limits.

[Merlinfmct87]

J. Carney's idea is a good one, no shock.

I think Enterprise can be saved. Mind you, I stopped watching a while back(I got sick of Xindi) but the episodes before that were top notch.

More DS9 though? I think I'd retch.

Maybe another TOS show? It'd be a real thrill for SFB fans . It would also give more oppertunity to showcase the Romulans in that era--the way the first TOS series was going to go in the script-writing stages. Andromedans might even make an apperance.

Merlin

[Desty Nova]

Four words:

Star Trek: General War

It would follow the adventures of Captain Phlilip Kosnett (the second most famous captain in Starfleet) and his ship, the Federation command cruiser Kongo. We would get to view his exploits fighting the Romulans, Lyrans, and Klingons throughout the General War, ultimately leading up to "Operation Cavalry", the final allied assault on Klinshai.
But that's not the end of the series, after the General War seems to have died down, suddenly a new foe appears to threaten the Federation: The Interstellar Concordium. The Kongo and her valiant crew must fight with all they have to keep the accursed "peacekeepers" from overrunning the galaxy!
But just when things seem at their darkest, things get a whole lot worse: Invaders from Andromeda storm the Milky Way and they seem dead set on conquest! Watch as the Kongo tries desperately to stem the tide of the invasion. It all leads up to one final gamble: Operation Unity. A huge fleet with representatives from every major race makes the long journey to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to assault the Andromedans' base of operations and end this horrible war for the sake of all life!

Being an SFB diehard, this would be my fricking dream come true.     

[Red_Green]

Four words:

Star Trek: General War

It would follow the adventures of Captain Phlilip Kosnett (the second most famous captain in Starfleet) and his ship, the Federation command cruiser Kongo. We would get to view his exploits fighting the Romulans, Lyrans, and Klingons throughout the General War, ultimately leading up to "Operation Cavalry", the final allied assault on Klinshai.
But that's not the end of the series, after the General War seems to have died down, suddenly a new foe appears to threaten the Federation: The Interstellar Concordium. The Kongo and her valiant crew must fight with all they have to keep the accursed "peacekeepers" from overrunning the galaxy!
But just when things seem at their darkest, things get a whole lot worse: Invaders from Andromeda storm the Milky Way and they seem dead set on conquest! Watch as the Kongo tries desperately to stem the tide of the invasion. It all leads up to one final gamble: Operation Unity. A huge fleet with representatives from every major race makes the long journey to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to assault the Andromedans' base of operations and end this horrible war for the sake of all life!

Being an SFB diehard, this would be my fricking dream come true.     

This is what I want as well. Only with updated TNG style ships. The story is good and would even sustain non-trek and non-SFB fans I believe.  I also (as I believe someone stated earlier) do not want to see the Enterprise continued in any shape or form. The sooner the Enterprise show is canceled, the sooner they can try something fresh. They do need to give it a rest  for a while.

[Merlinfmct87]

Four words:

Star Trek: General War

It would follow the adventures of Captain Phlilip Kosnett (the second most famous captain in Starfleet) and his ship, the Federation command cruiser Kongo. We would get to view his exploits fighting the Romulans, Lyrans, and Klingons throughout the General War, ultimately leading up to "Operation Cavalry", the final allied assault on Klinshai.
But that's not the end of the series, after the General War seems to have died down, suddenly a new foe appears to threaten the Federation: The Interstellar Concordium. The Kongo and her valiant crew must fight with all they have to keep the accursed "peacekeepers" from overrunning the galaxy!
But just when things seem at their darkest, things get a whole lot worse: Invaders from Andromeda storm the Milky Way and they seem dead set on conquest! Watch as the Kongo tries desperately to stem the tide of the invasion. It all leads up to one final gamble: Operation Unity. A huge fleet with representatives from every major race makes the long journey to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to assault the Andromedans' base of operations and end this horrible war for the sake of all life!

Being an SFB diehard, this would be my fricking dream come true.     

That would be fanatstic...Operation Calvary anyone?

Merlin

[Chris SI]

A show based on a giant war would grow old after a time, DS 9 got a way with it for two years, but it does get dull.

The best time to fill IMO is the 70 years between TOS and TNG, but not with Sulu, I'd like to see new faces.

[SghnDubh]

Takei is probably retired by now anyway...

[Magnum357]

Ya, I'm sure he would be optomistic in still doing the Sulu role, but he is quite old.  But that does not mean the lost era could not be done as a single movie.  Heck, have it like a triology.  For example, how about the final episodes of the Enterprise B, or maybe even Enterprise C for a Movie Trilogy.  If time was put into it like Star Trek 2 and 3 where, I think it would be one kick butt trilogy saga.  Maybe even have the Excelcor, where Sulu is much older, trying too help save the Enterprise C, or have his Daughter involved in the Trilogoy.  Lots could be done too make a fine movie saga of the lost era in my opinion.

[J. Carney]

We need to let the TOS cast rest, guys. They are all in their late 50's and early 60's (save Nemoy and I know that he's 70+ and I think that Dohan is, too- he was in his early 60's when his last kid was born!).

We need young blood, we can keep the old traditions, but a changuing of the guard is definately in order.

[Chris SI]

Doohan is 84, Nimoy is 73, William Shatner is also 73 (they are only 4 days apart age wise).

Couldn't find how old Takai is, but he has to be at least 60.

[Magnum357]

You wouldn't nessessarly need the TOS cast too make a "Lost Era" movie or Trilogy, like I said, Sulu's Daughter or have a later crew for the Excelcior during the lost era.  We know the Excelcior (at least all indications say) that the Excelcior was used all the way up too the 2360's (maybe even later), why not have the Excelcior displayed in a glorified Trilogy of the lost Era much like the Constitution class Enterprise was glorified for so many years during the 23rd century.  This would at least give Paramont something to do for the next decade until it can come up with a good Star Trek TV show again.

[Lepton]

Some quick ideas:

1.  No one seems to realize trek fans love space battles.  Big space battles.  A war-based trek show would sure piss off trek fans who think that Gene is god, but it would sure make alot of other people happy.  A Federation-Klingon war sounds perfect for that.

2.  Trek fails on so many levels to be true science-fiction that it is a crying shame.  All those who poop on "the five year mission" idea of exploration have absolutely no idea of what that might actually look like if it were done right.  One thing Enterprise has had going for it is something really basic.  Ocassionally, they run into folks that don't speak the same language.  I always hated the English-in-space crap. One of the best TNG shows in my estimation was the one with the race that spoke in mythological metaphors.  Now, that is alien.  Yet, it only scrapes the surface of what could be done with Trek.  Trek unfortunately has almost always been human-type problems in space.  Boring.  I know the dimensionality of the human condition, etc, etc.  I don't need a television show to make me think I am a thoughtful person.  I'd like to see something that isn't, that hasn't been, not something I know like the back of my hand.  Wasn't this Q's whole point in its trial of mankind??

[J. Carney]

Some quick ideas:

1.  No one seems to realize trek fans love space battles.  Big space battles.  A war-based trek show would sure piss off trek fans who think that Gene is god, but it would sure make alot of other people happy.  A Federation-Klingon war sounds perfect for that.

2.  Trek fails on so many levels to be true science-fiction that it is a crying shame.  All those who poop on "the five year mission" idea of exploration have absolutely no idea of what that might actually look like if it were done right.  One thing Enterprise has had going for it is something really basic.  Ocassionally, they run into folks that don't speak the same language.  I always hated the English-in-space crap. One of the best TNG shows in my estimation was the one with the race that spoke in mythological metaphors.  Now, that is alien.  Yet, it only scrapes the surface of what could be done with Trek.  Trek unfortunately has almost always been human-type problems in space.  Boring.  I know the dimensionality of the human condition, etc, etc.  I don't need a television show to make me think I am a thoughtful person.  I'd like to see something that isn't, that hasn't been, not something I know like the back of my hand.  Wasn't this Q's whole point in its trial of mankind??

Lepton...

Trek isn't science fiction, you got that right. It was Gene Rodenberry's creative camo for a political commentary on the 1960's... just like M*A*S*H* used the Korean war to hide it's critique of the Vietnam War.

It was meant to help people look at the problems of the time from a detached point of view, and see just how 'alien' two people who looked different hating each other could be.

If you remove the introspective quality, then you loose what made Trek stick around longer than Buck Rodgers or Flash Gordon.

[Merlinfmct87]

Absolutly true.

And I happen to believe that Q got a couple points right.

Merlin

[Lepton]

Like I say, I don't need my sci-fi or comedy shows to have pseudo-political commentary in it (except the Simpsons, of course).  I get enough of the real thing in a more serious context.  How I have always thought of sci-fi was a way of recontextualizing and reducing human problems and the "human condition" to something of little importance. I've always hated that "it's our humanity that makes us great" crap.  It's so eurocentric especially when the thing we were always comparing ourselves to in Trek was some totalitarian strong man or some wacky narrow-minded society.  Whoopee!  Aren't we great??!!!

[J. Carney]

Like I say, I don't need my sci-fi or comedy shows to have pseudo-political commentary in it (except the Simpsons, of course).  I get enough of the real thing in a more serious context.  How I have always thought of sci-fi was a way of recontextualizing and reducing human problems and the "human condition" to something of little importance. I've always hated that "it's our humanity that makes us great" crap.  It's so eurocentric especially when the thing we were always comparing ourselves to in Trek was some totalitarian strong man or some wacky narrow-minded society.  Whoopee!  Aren't we great??!!!

You like Enterprise, don't you ?

Star Trek compared humanity to those characters because, like it or not, they were plentiful characters at the time. The biggots in the US were a whacky narrowminded socioty, and the USSR, Cuba, China, N. Vietnam were all totalitarian strongmen. They were problems that needed to be addressed and solved.

You couldn't come out and say that on the news however. Cronkite couldn't say "Racists are assholes" and get away with it, so Rodenbery took us out into space and made us journey through the human condition on (planed) 5 year mission to realize just how far we had to go till we could get to the stars.

Take that out and you will be getting rid of Trek... period.

You couldn't even call it Star Trek... you'd have to call it something different... like Enterprise.

[Lepton]

Like I say, I don't need my sci-fi or comedy shows to have pseudo-political commentary in it (except the Simpsons, of course).  I get enough of the real thing in a more serious context.  How I have always thought of sci-fi was a way of recontextualizing and reducing human problems and the "human condition" to something of little importance. I've always hated that "it's our humanity that makes us great" crap.  It's so eurocentric especially when the thing we were always comparing ourselves to in Trek was some totalitarian strong man or some wacky narrow-minded society.  Whoopee!  Aren't we great??!!!

You like Enterprise, don't you ?

Star Trek compared humanity to those characters because, like it or not, they were plentiful characters at the time. The biggots in the US were a whacky narrowminded socioty, and the USSR, Cuba, China, N. Vietnam were all totalitarian strongmen. They were problems that needed to be addressed and solved.

You couldn't come out and say that on the news however. Cronkite couldn't say "Racists are assholes" and get away with it, so Rodenbery took us out into space and made us journey through the human condition on (planed) 5 year mission to realize just how far we had to go till we could get to the stars.

Take that out and you will be getting rid of Trek... period.

You couldn't even call it Star Trek... you'd have to call it something different... like Enterprise.

Enterprise I would say is a good deal more morally complex than TOS or TNG.  Those shows always had very convenient targets for criticism and it was never the commanders or the heros themselves under scrutiny, always the Other, be it nasty aliens or power hungry feds.  The protagonists were always in a position of moral superiority for the most part.  However in Enterprise, you have questionable actions being done by the primary guys all in service of saving humanity and his struggle with it.  That seems a good deal more introspective than Kirk's cowboy justice or Picard's moral supercilious demeanor, although I love Picard as the consumate diplomat, intellect, and explorer.

[J. Carney]

Lepton...

I just can't get into the 'superior high ground' topic involving Enterprise... because since the Vulcans seem to have cornered the market on it in that show, a human would never be allowed to comment upon it.

And Trek is all about the moral high ground. It shows people in an entertaining way what problems we need to solve to really get to the elusive 'moral high ground.'

The Federation was one man's ideal view of what humanity could achive if man managed to conquer his problems and set aside his differences. It was a world where men really were judged on character alone... even the fact that Checkov was a devout 'New Soviet Man' did not keep him fro being accepted.

ANd as for Picard- he might have been a wreckless, wildcat explorer on the Stargazer, but on the Big E... he was just a wuss.

[SghnDubh]

Don't hijack my thread. 

It's ridiculous to say that Trek isn't science fiction. Of course it is. Don't confuse the point. Nearly all outstanding fiction has allegorical elements; if the audience can't see themselves in the story, or if the story doesn't speak to something either basic in the human condition or topical for the audience, it won't catch much attention.

TOS was more often than not allegorical in its day; TNG was as well. Voyager, DS9, and to an extent Enterprise are much more character-driven and that probably contributes to why they're not as popular. Nemisis failed because while it tried to address (allegorically) the ethics of cloning, it failed to weave a good story around the point.

Bottom line is Trek went really wrong with B&B. Give it a rest, then come back and tell me a great story, explore current problems with our world today in a way that we can't otherwise, and do it without a bunch of temporal crap, in keeping with the old Trek look & feel, in ships that kick a little ass. Oh and give me a few explosions. And a Vulcan that doesn't have a crush on the captain. Oh yeah, and more explosions. And Jeri Ryan nekkid. MMMmmm, Jeri Ryan.

 

[J. Carney]

Don't hijack my thread.  ...

. Oh and give me a few explosions. And a Vulcan that doesn't have a crush on the captain. Oh yeah, and more explosions. And Jeri Ryan nekkid. MMMmmm, Jeri Ryan.

 

Oh, yes, my friend... now we get down to the real reason for Trek:

*Booms*
     &
  Babes 

Everything else is just window dressing.


*Hopes everyone sees the humor in this*

[Dash Jones]

Some quick ideas:

1.  No one seems to realize trek fans love space battles.  Big space battles.  A war-based trek show would sure piss off trek fans who think that Gene is god, but it would sure make alot of other people happy.  A Federation-Klingon war sounds perfect for that.

2.  Trek fails on so many levels to be true science-fiction that it is a crying shame.  All those who poop on "the five year mission" idea of exploration have absolutely no idea of what that might actually look like if it were done right.  One thing Enterprise has had going for it is something really basic.  Ocassionally, they run into folks that don't speak the same language.  I always hated the English-in-space crap. One of the best TNG shows in my estimation was the one with the race that spoke in mythological metaphors.  Now, that is alien.  Yet, it only scrapes the surface of what could be done with Trek.  Trek unfortunately has almost always been human-type problems in space.  Boring.  I know the dimensionality of the human condition, etc, etc.  I don't need a television show to make me think I am a thoughtful person.  I'd like to see something that isn't, that hasn't been, not something I know like the back of my hand.  Wasn't this Q's whole point in its trial of mankind??

The Episode was called Darmok...I just watched it again recently!

I consider TOS good science fiction.  I think there's a difference between a SciFi Opera like Star Wars, and real Science Fiction.  Real Science Fiction explores the human morality and emotion, as well as possible futures in that arena, not just with the physical, but with societal and moral advances.  I think TOS, TNG, and even DS9 sometimes explored those arenas.  I think Enterprise attempts to sometimes, but most times they are so intent on keeping a main storyline, with action, adventure, and sex going that they forget the Science part, and only include the Space Opera part.

But overall, I find Star Trek as a whole, almost exemplary of what Science Fiction is...and not most of what is called Science Fiction in the modern time (post 1990) as most of it isn't Science Fiction...but Space Opera.

[Merlinfmct87]

Something my Art & Literature teacher is CONSTANTLY drilling into me is to look at art in context. TOS is "campy" and "sexist" because the writers saw a very real wrong in the world and that it was being filmed during the Sexual Revolution.

TNG is wimpy because it is swinging towards the opposite of the current generation, the ME generation.

DS9 I can't comment on, because I couldn't stomach to watch it.

Voyager was, in my eyes, pure magic. Something that looked at the world through unfiltered eyes.

Enterprise is making the fatal mistake of posing for the crowd. I've still got my Star Trek: Judgement Rights Collector's Edition with the interview of Gene Roddenberry, and he said the highest mistake any writer can make is to prostitute himself to the audiance. Once the writer's get their guts back and get Archer out of Xindi-land, it will be as good as it was before.

Many things from times gone by look strange, weird or wicked. Certainly Alice in Wonderland can be very disturbing if you read it right. The historical context is that children's reading material at the time before that was preacy, superior, poorly written, and dry. It was, in essence, a child observing an adult's world and trying to make sense of it.

You could easily make a case for "Wonderland" to being adulthood.

Once again, you have to look at in historical context.

P.S. I realize that, in a post spouting emotional absense the praise of Voyager and the condemnation of DS9 does not fit, and I apologize.

Merlin

[Lepton]

Ok. I'll get back on topic.  Enterprise C sounds great if they can just get rid of those ridiculous uniforms.  I also have always thought that they needed to expand the Trek universe by at least having a Klingon show.  People love seeing klingons.  Hell, some of the best TNG shows are acutally centered around klingons, but people's definition of Trek is too bloody narrow to allow for it.  I'm surprised DS9 ever made it onto the air since it wasn't a captain with a single ship named Enterprise.  I'd also like to see something more civilian from Trek.  Something following a freighter captain or even a smuggler.  Of course that would be a big no-no.  Gene rolling over in his grave and what not.

[J. Carney]

Ok. I'll get back on topic.  Enterprise C sounds great if they can just get rid of those ridiculous uniforms.  I also have always thought that they needed to expand the Trek universe by at least having a Klingon show.  People love seeing klingons.  Hell, some of the best TNG shows are acutally centered around klingons, but people's definition of Trek is too bloody narrow to allow for it.  I'm surprised DS9 ever made it onto the air since it wasn't a captain with a single ship named Enterprise.  I'd also like to see something more civilian from Trek.  Something following a freighter captain or even a smuggler.  Of course that would be a big no-no.  Gene rolling over in his grave and what not.

I think that Rodenberry would not have ben opposed to other shows that went outside the Federation had he lived to the present day... after all, he used the other races as an alagory to real life politics. Since the situations have changed for the real world, the ways to use those aligorical manefestations of them would, most likely, have changed.

I think that a good idea would be a amaller ship, like a frigate or police ship, and have them battling the Orion Pirates. You'd have the ability to know the whole crew and it would show the day-to-day workings on a starship better (like Voyager did). It would also give you the chance to get to see some more of the enlisted ranks come out, since a smaller ship would have lower rank requirements for each position... I mean, We have never seen the Starfleet equivelent of a "Cheif of the Boat."

[Magnum357]

Hey!  What a coincidence!  You mentioned a Fed Police Ship, I'm working on a model right now on the SFB Fed Police Cutter for SFC.   

Man, I will say one thing about Star Trek, its probably the only Sifi show that I know that attacts SO many different veiw points.  I agree that its interesting to see human emotion from different veiw points in Star Trek, but I agree with Lepton aswell that for a Sifi show it doesn't feel that realistic too me awell.  And now, we get a lot of different veiw points in what Star Trek should be, no wonder Star Trek is not doing well lately.  But one thing I do agree with, that quote above that Gene said... if a writer prostitutes his story for the audience, then he is in big troulbe.  I agree with that philosopy, it means its not art anymore, you are just trying to sell your story for a buck. 

I still think Paramont should consider my idea of a Star Trek movie or Trilogy based on the Lost Era on the Excelcior.  That would at least give Paramont time to figure out what they want too do with Trek.

[J. Carney]

Cool, Mag... you'll have to share it... SOON! I (and probably NOONE else) like the SFB police cutter.

The Excelsior idea is a good one, but, unfortunately, most of the TOS/TMP era fans are not in the 'study groups' that the studios are trying to please. They are kids that want to see more of (whoever the chick that plays T'pol)'s boobs and less of Trek's original purpose...

Which was to show a female's legs.

Seriously, though- someone should set up an official poll on Paramont's site. THey should allow suggestions to be made by e-mail for one month proposing ideas. They should then take the 10 most popular (most often suggested) ideas and set up a net poll allowing you to choose one of them. After another month, they need to take that fan-backed idea and run with it.

In the meantime, what is the possibiity of some inventive person using a FPS mod to make a "Red vs. Blue"-style Trek fan show?

[Desty Nova]

Dude, I like the Fed Police Cutter. And actually, a police drama set on a POL could be fun.

[Magnum357]

The Police Cutter I'm working on right now well be somewhat similar too my other SFB ships.  If you want too check them out, go to the Fleetdock 13 website (http://www.strategyplanet.com/sfc/omega/fleetdock13/).  My ships are located in the Ships 1 section. 

But be warned, my SFB ships have a somewhat TMP emphisis too them.  I make this like this because I always liked the TMP era of Star Trek especially when Star Trek 2 and 3 came out.  These designs are my intepretation of what SFB ships look like because I wanted them too look a little different then Star Trek ships because I have always considered SFB a different Timeline compared too Star Trek. 

As for the Police Cutter, I've added a tiny bit of history too the design of it.  I don't want too give away any clues, but the Readme file that will come with the model will explain why I designed the Cutter this way.   

[SFCspoonman]

Well B-5 had a good thing going where they had a egular series, but also a larger picture looming with the shadow war.  So like every few episodes you would get more of the "big"story.  X-files also did this and it worked out well.

Lately with the star trek franchise they are trying something similar but lumping them together like the whole xindi thing.  I don;t think is nearly as successful.  Sadly the shadow war was b-5's wad and it blew waaay too early.  They tried to move beyond that but it was just anticlimactic at that point.

Using the general war and the Andro's I think would work well in the B-5 type format.  I believe all that is owned by Stephen B. Cole or his company though, and therefore would be a licensing nightmare.  But I would like to see it.

Id like to see it start with the older SFB ships too with the round nacelles, and progress as technology changes, say year to year.  Start with a retro TOS look and gradually progress thru technology.

I think thats part where Enterprise fails, I expected to see a ship that predated the TOS Enterprise, not one that looked like it was built after Picards Enterprise.

Well thats my opinion anyways....

[Desty Nova]

That's one of the many reasons I don't waste my time on Enterprise. I absolutely hate the Akiraprise. It was a terrible design and a slap in the face to the fans. I'm not in the habit of watching shows that open with an insult to their most loyal audience.

[Age]

Ok. I'll get back on topic.  Enterprise C sounds great if they can just get rid of those ridiculous uniforms.  I also have always thought that they needed to expand the Trek universe by at least having a Klingon show.  People love seeing klingons.  Hell, some of the best TNG shows are acutally centered around klingons, but people's definition of Trek is too bloody narrow to allow for it.  I'm surprised DS9 ever made it onto the air since it wasn't a captain with a single ship named Enterprise.  I'd also like to see something more civilian from Trek.  Something following a freighter captain or even a smuggler.  Of course that would be a big no-no.  Gene rolling over in his grave and what not.

That has often been discussed in the Communicator about the Klingons.This would give us more of an insight of the Klingons in the 23C (Capt. kirks era).This would be a great Idea  for a new show and could possibly bring the fan base back however another Federation ship and crew could do that as well set in the 23C.The fan base myself included want to step back into the 23C trek we seen enough of the 24C.The show Enterprise is a great scifi show but keeps insulting our intellect for the show.This not the way it really happed or lets hope Archer is an 11 year old boy having a big dream about his daddy building  the first warp 5 engine.

 Like I said I watch Enterprise because it is just another sci fi show not because it is trek .

 I would say that a Klingon show would beat Enterprise any day.I would definitely watch it as well as any other trek show set in the 23C.That is my favourite era I do like the TNG based shows.The cold war on Earth is over so why not a klingon show possibly after the Kitomor Accords are signed.Taking place after ST 6 TUC.

[J. Carney]

No Klingons!

Give the Smelly Trash of the Gallaxy their own TV show?

NEVER!!!

Everyone knows the the Rihannsu are superior to those mental midgets! Just imagine a show about the Klingons. The dialouge would be terrible, such short sentences! If not fragmanets! And tell me how hot chick and Klingon fit in the same sentence? B'lana Torres was neither hot nor fully klingon!

Tell paramont that you want to see more of the Rihania! Our command crews are 60% women! Lots of hot chicks in short skirts woth pointed ears- can it get any better?!?

[Age]

  That is because Romulan Woman are mostly working for the Tal Sihar and Ilike it when B'lana gets hot headed.What am saying is set in the 23C.

[J. Carney]

  That is because Romulan Woman are mostly working for the Tal Sihar and Ilike it when B'lana gets hot headed.What am saying is set in the 23C.

Right- when the Rom's weren't the 'Evil Empire' stand-in. by TNG Berman and Barga (spreading their poison even then) had reduced the Roms to a state of dishonor and intrigue- nothing like the brave, noble, honor-bound officer that destroyed his Warbird to elude capture or the sexy, intelligent Commander who tried (and succeeded) to seduce Spock while Kirk stole the cloaking device.

A show about the TOS/TMP Romulan Empire would have a good storyline- IMHO. A TNG Rom show would flop, because they were reduced to bowl-cut asexuality and Neanderthal intelligence to make up for the lack of a villain.

[Magnum357]

Ya, I agree.  As much as I liked TNG era, I'm not sure why they changed the Romulans the way they did.  Even the Romulans in Nemisis where not really that interesting at all, and half of them looked more like Vampires (with their pale skin) in Nemisis.  I guess B&B wanted too give Romulans more of a "evil" look I suppose.   

Now TOS romulans, I thought had more going for them for story purposes.  If I recall, the reason why they called them Romulans was because they really acted very similar to Romans. 

[Age]

  They did have the Romulan Senate.The same Senate as the Romans when Julius Caesar was around.It is to bad he fell for Cleopatra.The very emotion of a Romulan.

[J. Carney]

There were far more similarities than just that, Age. The original structure of the Romulan gov't was almost identical to the facist republic of Rome. There were two houses in the govermant- not just a Senate, but a lower house composed of commoners. The Prator wasan overseer of the senate and there was a figurehead emperor.

The Roumlans used the facist salute.

They ascribed to the Roman code of honor.

Their familial structures were the same as Roman socioty, with the Head of House having power of life and death over it's varrious members.

There are many more little details. If you haven't read Diane Duane's 'Rihannsu' series, find it,  they are a good read andgive a lot of insight into the world of TOS Roms.

They are: My Enemy, My Ally
              The Romulan Way
               Swordhunt
               Honor Blade

There may be more now, I don't know... but they are good for TOS Rom fans and SFB fans alike- they even have direct references to a D7D cruiser and 'New Series' Hawk ships in them.

[Desty Nova]

There may be more now, I don't know... but they are good for TOS Rom fans and SFB fans alike- they even have direct references to a D7D cruiser and 'New Series' Hawk ships in them.

Did these books have some kind of official relation to SFB? I was surprised to hear this and now I'm very curious.

[J. Carney]

There may be more now, I don't know... but they are good for TOS Rom fans and SFB fans alike- they even have direct references to a D7D cruiser and 'New Series' Hawk ships in them.

Did these books have some kind of official relation to SFB? I was surprised to hear this and now I'm very curious.

No, Desty, they don't have and official relation to SFB or ADB in any way. I do get the feeling the D.D. either played SFB or knew other fans that did, though.

 I have lost Swordhunt which mentioned a fleet of Romulan ships that had Old Series, KR and New Series ships distinctly mentioned. McCoy is telling the story and he mentions that there are three types of ships in the Romulan Fleet- the traditional 'Warbirds,' ships purchased from the Klingons (specifically the D6 and F5, though by a class name and discriptions and not numberd types), and a newer, previously unseen type of cruisers with "graceful sweeping curves' and ' still possessing a resemblance to a bird.'

That sounds a lot like a Sparrowhawk/Firehawk hull type to me.

In The Romulan Way and My Enemy, My Ally, the central Romulan commander, Ael (aunt of the commander in The Enterprise Incident), has a Warbird- the Bloodwing that has been 'improved with Klingon fire control and engines, making it more powerful and allowing it to fire to the rear'- this sounding like a War Eagle. They also tell the crew of the Enterprise that the Romulans got transporter tech from the Klingons.

The mention of the D7D was that Sulu had been programing, in his spare time, a simulator that allowed one to take the helm of any of the known types of starships and fly them in combat- SOUND FAMILLIAR?- though he tweeked the power ratings on the Klingon ships to allow them to be more effective fighters. Kirk comments that he hopes he never meets an Klingon with one of these 'Sulu refits.'


There are also places where the book doesn't follow SFB, like all the ships are armed with photons instead of the SFB racial weapons, but it seems that this was a conciet to the fans that didn't know about SFB in light of how so many other parts of the boks follow it's lead.



Hope that helps you a little. If you can find them, definately get them. It helps to read them in order (see the above post) but you could read thefirst two at any point- ME,MA is an unrelated event involving Ael that happened previous to the others, and TRW, is kind of a side story in which she makes an apperance, the stories don't all intertwine till the third book.

Whoa, tired fingers- will answer any remaining questions later.

[Desty Nova]

Huh, interesting. Now I really wanna read those books. I think you're right about the author knowing about SFB, since she refers to the TOS Rommie as a 'Warbird'. If you read the designer's notes in the Basic Set rulebook for SFB, SVC states that he coined the term 'Warbird' in a phone call and it was then used by the actual franchise many years later. 

Anyway, these books sound very interesting, and not just because of the SFB references they contain! They sound like good books about one of the best Trek villains that was taken and screwed up in TMP/TNG(Along with the Klingons).

[DAnahos_XC]

Four words:

Star Trek: General War

It would follow the adventures of Captain Phlilip Kosnett (the second most famous captain in Starfleet) and his ship, the Federation command cruiser Kongo. We would get to view his exploits fighting the Romulans, Lyrans, and Klingons throughout the General War, ultimately leading up to "Operation Cavalry", the final allied assault on Klinshai.
But that's not the end of the series, after the General War seems to have died down, suddenly a new foe appears to threaten the Federation: The Interstellar Concordium. The Kongo and her valiant crew must fight with all they have to keep the accursed "peacekeepers" from overrunning the galaxy!
But just when things seem at their darkest, things get a whole lot worse: Invaders from Andromeda storm the Milky Way and they seem dead set on conquest! Watch as the Kongo tries desperately to stem the tide of the invasion. It all leads up to one final gamble: Operation Unity. A huge fleet with representatives from every major race makes the long journey to the Lesser Magellanic Cloud to assault the Andromedans' base of operations and end this horrible war for the sake of all life!

Being an SFB diehard, this would be my fricking dream come true.     

If done right, this would be smashing! You could have great character devlopement, great stories and lots of starship combat! The best of all the worlds that maybe Babylon 5 season 3 and 4 the tops!

[Desty Nova]

Exactly my thinking. 

[SghnDubh]

Lot's of starship combat...and big vulcan hooters....