Topic: New Star Trek movie being discussed

[Merlinfmct87]

DS9 was a joke. The only people who were remotely entertaining were Quark and Odo(particularly if they were in the same shot).

Here's a hint: There's a reason Q made fine mincemeat of the cast when he popped aboard. Think about it.

And Voyager was fantastic. I'll probably be stoned for saying that, but I'll say it.

Merlin

Wow, that is about completely opposite of any Star Trek fan I have ever heard of. All of the ones I have ever met liked DS9 way more than Voyager.

DS9 suffered from a stationary setting, which can lead to what I like to call the "Black Sheep Syndrome."

Anyone here remember the TV show "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep" loosely based on 'Pappy' Boyington's VMF-214 fighter squadron? Great show, great actors, and some great lines:
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'Pappy': "These men are great pilots."

General: "What about this one piolt, Lt. Wiley- he's crashed three times and shot down two of his own wingmen! That's 5 planes!"

'Pappy': "See, he's only been in the air a week and he's already a Japanese ace!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem was every show was devided into 4 distinct phases:

1.) Get in trouble and get grounded.
2.) Get drunk and think up hair-brained mission.
3.) Fly mission without permission and kill a lot of Japs.
4.) Go to the bar, get drunk and chase nurses to celebrate, leading back to Phase 1 to set up next episode.

There's only so many things you can do inside that framework- and though they can make for a verry successful and fulfilling tour of duty, it's not going to keep people watching TV forever (mostly 'cause you can't show the best parts on TV).

DS9 suffered from the same problems- you can only do so many things in a fixed location with unchanging enemies. DS( had great cast and characters... but you can only tangle with the Carddies and have a cold one at Quarks so many times before it gets old.

Oh I dunno...Quark was rather cool. I'm still waiting for the spinoff series: Quark and Odo stuck in a shuttlecraft for one year...I'd probably have to go to the doctor after the sheer laughfest...Man those guys were fantastic.

Did you see Rene/Odo's cameo on Frasier as Dr. Tooksberry? One of his best roles...

Merlin

[Ravok]

 I agree i loved Qwark!!! and him and Odo  together!! Watch out.

[Merlinfmct87]

I agree i loved Qwark!!! and him and Odo  together!! Watch out.

There is hope...

Merlin

[Chris SI]

Watching DS 9 from the begining on the latest reruns, I strongly disagree with the panning of it.

The show morphed from a space out-post into a war novella, but never lost its characters.

Unlike previous and later Trek shows, you didn't have 'dead years' (such as TOS' thrid season, or the first two on both TNG and Voyager) the series kept changing as it went along.

The final three years, the lead up and the actual Dominion war, stands an excellenat example of how to do it right.

If any show should be roasted over the coals, it is the always pedantic Voyager, with a soccer mom captain, a crying Vulcan security chief, and two guys unable to get past ensign in 7 years! Beltran was the only I guy I liked, and he never seemed to get much play in stories. And don't even get me started on the cook/ambassador "Neelix."

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

A friend of mine interviewed Berman at his office a few years ago. In his office was a bust of Roddenberry with a blindfold over it's eyes. I also saw Berman in an interview saying he needed the freedom from what had been established over the previous years, for writing opportunities. It's just stupid to alienate your core audience. Way to go Rick, throwing continuity out the window and more.

[J. Carney]

Watching DS 9 from the begining on the latest reruns, I strongly disagree with the panning of it.

The show morphed from a space out-post into a war novella, but never lost its characters.

Unlike previous and later Trek shows, you didn't have 'dead years' (such as TOS' thrid season, or the first two on both TNG and Voyager) the series kept changing as it went along.

The final three years, the lead up and the actual Dominion war, stands an excellenat example of how to do it right.

If any show should be roasted over the coals, it is the always pedantic Voyager, with a soccer mom captain, a crying Vulcan security chief, and two guys unable to get past ensign in 7 years! Beltran was the only I guy I liked, and he never seemed to get much play in stories. And don't even get me started on the cook/ambassador "Neelix."

The characters were quite good- I liked Quark and Odo, but also thought that Sisko- though too much a jock for my taste- was the best thing since Kirk. He had style and panache that Picard was too uptight and formal to possess and he was more intelegent and experienced than Kirk.

Kira and Dax were enough eye-candy for me...and should have been enough for anyone.  The uniqueness of Dax's character was something that was vastly underplayed. You could have done a serieson Dax by herself. And Kira's sassy attitude... well, I like a girl that puts up a fight.

O'Brian was my favorite character, though. He unique in the fat that he's the only rate to have a recurring role and also a central one. He also had a good acting style and (from what he did with 'Minstral Boy' had a passing fairsinging voice.


What it boils down to, though, is that a limited setting provides only limited plot lines. You can only have something pop out of the wormhole so many times.

The Dominion War ideawas good, and the lfeet battles were visually stunning... but it all got old-

just like Pappy shooting up Zeeks.

[Navall]

*prepares to be lynched*

I loved Voyager and DS9 in equal measure. I like Enterprise too
I never caught much of TNG till the later episodes.....
....and I really don't like TOS....

[Gambler]

*prepares to be lynched*

I loved Voyager and DS9 in equal measure. I like Enterprise too
I never caught much of TNG till the later episodes.....
....and I really don't like TOS....

Off with his head!

[Ravok]

*prepares to be lynched*

I loved Voyager and DS9 in equal measure. I like Enterprise too
I never caught much of TNG till the later episodes.....
....and I really don't like TOS....

Call the law givers!!! He is not of the body!! He does not bask in the light of Landru!!

[Dash Jones]

Truth to tell...after finally being able to see TOS...I LOVED IT...it is down and out the BEST of ALL the Star Treks!

TNG is a very very close second...but they just didn't have the dynamic between characters that could compare to that between Spock, Kirk, and McCoy...and they certainly didn't have any Scotty.

Now I was bored with DS9's first few seasons...though I think those seasons overall were more true to Gene's outlook on Trek...

I did like the last few seasons of DS9...and thought it kept up with the characterizations and the Science Fiction questioning of what made a person, or individual, and what our moralities were.

I actually loved Voyager more than DS9...probably because overall it kept with the Rodenberry premise of episodic series.  However, I hated the Kazon, and thought that they overused the Borg.  I too thougt that the repeated use of a single species, or keeping an ongoing storyline actually decreased how good the show was.

Now that they've taken it to the extreme, in Enterprise, I think it's absurd.  Not only do they throw out all continuity, but they also don't really have the writing effectiveness of the DS9 staff to actually do it.  I've tried watching and finally, after analyzing it all, figured, the writing is just plain bad.  It isn't just continuity errors, it isn't just that they have an ongoing storyline and forgot about episodic writing in Rodenberry style...but the writing itself is rather bland, and not all that interesting.

Heck, I even liked Nemesis (I thought it was actually one of the better trek movies...despite what a lot of people think), but Enterprise is too linear, to predictable, and too badly written for my taste.

[jualdeaux]

Watching DS 9 from the begining on the latest reruns, I strongly disagree with the panning of it.

The show morphed from a space out-post into a war novella, but never lost its characters.

Unlike previous and later Trek shows, you didn't have 'dead years' (such as TOS' thrid season, or the first two on both TNG and Voyager) the series kept changing as it went along.

The final three years, the lead up and the actual Dominion war, stands an excellenat example of how to do it right.

If any show should be roasted over the coals, it is the always pedantic Voyager, with a soccer mom captain, a crying Vulcan security chief, and two guys unable to get past ensign in 7 years! Beltran was the only I guy I liked, and he never seemed to get much play in stories. And don't even get me started on the cook/ambassador "Neelix."

The characters were quite good- I liked Quark and Odo, but also thought that Sisko- though too much a jock for my taste- was the best thing since Kirk. He had style and panache that Picard was too uptight and formal to possess and he was more intelegent and experienced than Kirk.

Kira and Dax were enough eye-candy for me...and should have been enough for anyone.  The uniqueness of Dax's character was something that was vastly underplayed. You could have done a serieson Dax by herself. And Kira's sassy attitude... well, I like a girl that puts up a fight.

O'Brian was my favorite character, though. He unique in the fat that he's the only rate to have a recurring role and also a central one. He also had a good acting style and (from what he did with 'Minstral Boy' had a passing fairsinging voice.


What it boils down to, though, is that a limited setting provides only limited plot lines. You can only have something pop out of the wormhole so many times.

The Dominion War ideawas good, and the lfeet battles were visually stunning... but it all got old-

just like Pappy shooting up Zeeks.

My favourite character of DS9 is Garak, the Cardassian spy/assassin/Tailor guy. He was so delightfully dangerous, devious and slightly evil, but in a very polite and urbane manner, that I just loved that character. And it was played great buy the actor. it was also, for a somewhat secondary character, given the chance to grow and change over the course of the series. the friendship with Julian, the competition and loathing between him and Dukat really made him a complex character that is rather rare in this kind of show.

[Magnum357]

I agree, Garak was really a neat character.  And I liked Dukat, nobody gives that Star Trek character any credit of being a neat vilan.

I don't know why every body always bit@hes about what Star Trek is the best.  I like them all (except maybe Enterprise    ).  I like TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and almost all the movies (except for 5 I guess... in some ways      )

[Father Ted]

Garak gets my vote for most interesting character, and like Magnum said, his hate-hate relationship with Ducat is great. My favorite DS9 episode is when the Klinks invade Cardassian space, and the council is sheltered on the station. Garak and Ducat stand guard over their hiding place and trade insults while killing Klink boarders.

BTW: the actor who plays Garak was Scorpio, from the original "Dirty Harry" movie.

[Chris SI]

Andrew Robinson was indeed brillaint as Garok, one of the most memorable anti-heros in Trek lore.

[Navall]

*prepares to be lynched*

I loved Voyager and DS9 in equal measure. I like Enterprise too
I never caught much of TNG till the later episodes.....
....and I really don't like TOS....

Off with his head!

I'm sorry, Kirk's nipples just didn't do it for me.

[Merlinfmct87]

Watching DS 9 from the begining on the latest reruns, I strongly disagree with the panning of it.

The show morphed from a space out-post into a war novella, but never lost its characters.

Unlike previous and later Trek shows, you didn't have 'dead years' (such as TOS' thrid season, or the first two on both TNG and Voyager) the series kept changing as it went along.

The final three years, the lead up and the actual Dominion war, stands an excellenat example of how to do it right.

If any show should be roasted over the coals, it is the always pedantic Voyager, with a soccer mom captain, a crying Vulcan security chief, and two guys unable to get past ensign in 7 years! Beltran was the only I guy I liked, and he never seemed to get much play in stories. And don't even get me started on the cook/ambassador "Neelix."

The characters were quite good- I liked Quark and Odo, but also thought that Sisko- though too much a jock for my taste- was the best thing since Kirk. He had style and panache that Picard was too uptight and formal to possess and he was more intelegent and experienced than Kirk.

Kira and Dax were enough eye-candy for me...and should have been enough for anyone.  The uniqueness of Dax's character was something that was vastly underplayed. You could have done a serieson Dax by herself. And Kira's sassy attitude... well, I like a girl that puts up a fight.

O'Brian was my favorite character, though. He unique in the fat that he's the only rate to have a recurring role and also a central one. He also had a good acting style and (from what he did with 'Minstral Boy' had a passing fairsinging voice.


What it boils down to, though, is that a limited setting provides only limited plot lines. You can only have something pop out of the wormhole so many times.

The Dominion War ideawas good, and the lfeet battles were visually stunning... but it all got old-

just like Pappy shooting up Zeeks.

My favourite character of DS9 is Garak, the Cardassian spy/assassin/Tailor guy. He was so delightfully dangerous, devious and slightly evil, but in a very polite and urbane manner, that I just loved that character. And it was played great buy the actor. it was also, for a somewhat secondary character, given the chance to grow and change over the course of the series. the friendship with Julian, the competition and loathing between him and Dukat really made him a complex character that is rather rare in this kind of show.

Garek was fantastic! He always seemed wasted on Bashir(sp).

[Ravok]

 Think about it.  A doctor, And a torturer and and assassin becoming friends. and learning from each other.

[S'Raek]

First of all, Navall needs to be lined up against the wall and shot!   

Personally my favorites are TOS and then DS9, for different reasons.  TOS was kind of cheesy, I admit, but the stories and personalities were both great.  Especially considering the time period they were shown - in the late '60s.  A show about how great America is (which is a theme in several episodes), tackling social issues (like the first white man to kiss a black woman on national TV) and the unabashed optimism were sorely needed at that time.  DS9 was great because having it in a station allowed them to have stories that ran several episodes, even several seasons.  It also allowed them to develop their characters in different and sometimes better ways.  And speaking of characters, it had Sisko (who was kick-butt in a Kirk like fashion), Dukat (one of the better and more complex villians I've seen on TV), Dax, well you get the idea. 

I have not been able to see Enterprise, though what I have heard doesn't make me want to rush out and try and find it on DVD or anything.  (And yes, I know it's not on DVD yet.)

[IndyShark]

DS9 was a joke. The only people who were remotely entertaining were Quark and Odo(particularly if they were in the same shot).

Here's a hint: There's a reason Q made fine mincemeat of the cast when he popped aboard. Think about it.

And Voyager was fantastic. I'll probably be stoned for saying that, but I'll say it.

Merlin

I never watched DS9 when it was one because the first few seasons didn't interest me. To be honest, I bought the series on DVD and season 4 through 7 were great. To be sure, they had a few bad episodes, but a lot of good ones. I have to admit I liked watching the battle scenes and picking out starships! (Nebula, Galaxy, Akira, Excelsior, Miranda, Vorcha, Bird of Prey, etc.)