Topic: So is Taldren going too release the Source Codes too SFC?

[Magnum357]

Ok, I've been a way for a little while, but I was excited to hear that Taldren might release the source codes of SFC.  Will this include all the source codes (even SFC3) or just 1 through OP?  If Taldren doesn't release SFC3 source code, I would be disappointed, but I would like it if the OP source code was released. 

From what i have read, SFB is releasing new rules for X-ships (specifically, 3rd generation X-ships in years of 220+ of SFB) and I think it would be neat if SFC OP had more updated mechanics of X-ships rules or X2-ship rules too.  If Taldren gives the source code, I think this is very doable buy the comminity, if we got some good C++ programmers here.

[Bonk]

I think we're waiting for word on whether Quicksilver will agree to the release. I'm not even sure if anyone has asked them?

[Chris Jones]

I smell the possibility of new and different weapons, maybe more than 16 races, etc.. all kinds of fun!

Time to learn C++

[Lepton]

Yes, this is the issue.  People are getting awfully expectant about the source codes, but are there programmers to handle the task??  Supposedly, Taldren was a group of professionals working full time to develop these titles.  I have my doubts as to llkelihood of any vast changes in the game i.e additional races, new weapon systems, etc within even a year or more of the source code being opened.  Small tweaks here and there may be very doable.  Adding stuff?  Sounds tough to me.  I am not impuning anyone's coding skills.  I know nothing of programming.

Who will be the programmers?  How will they manage tasks and work together?  What are the priorities?  Who will set them??  If you think there were arguments over server details, just imagine those over game engine issues.  Will we resurrect the old rebates over hold costs and charge cost for plasma torps, fusion cannons, etc??

Be that as it may, this would be the biggest challenge to this community ever.  Not that it can't be done, but caution is advisable.

[Bonk]

I agree wholeheartedly Lepton. Long term, organisation will be critical - we'll need a CVS host for serious re-writes as Strafer suggested on the old forums. Simpler stuff like fixing the SQL serverkit, if necessary, will be easier to manage.

Of course this all depends on how the fine, wonderful, extra beautiful people at Quicksilver respond...
 (no butt kissing here, nope!    )

[RogueJedi_XC]

Yes, this is the issue.  People are getting awfully expectant about the source codes, but are there programmers to handle the task??  Supposedly, Taldren was a group of professionals working full time to develop these titles.  I have my doubts as to llkelihood of any vast changes in the game i.e additional races, new weapon systems, etc within even a year or more of the source code being opened.  Small tweaks here and there may be very doable.  Adding stuff?  Sounds tough to me.  I am not impuning anyone's coding skills.  I know nothing of programming.

Who will be the programmers?  How will they manage tasks and work together?  What are the priorities?  Who will set them??  If you think there were arguments over server details, just imagine those over game engine issues.  Will we resurrect the old rebates over hold costs and charge cost for plasma torps, fusion cannons, etc??

Be that as it may, this would be the biggest challenge to this community ever.  Not that it can't be done, but caution is advisable.

I don't think there will be a lack of willing programmers, it's a lack of organization and a defined method of adding stuff to the game that would be the problem. As Bonk suggested, a CVS repository would be necessary. IMO, a group of solid, trusted players and developers would need to be in charge of deciding what actually gets added so that we don't get stuff being added willy-nilly. That would ruin the game rather than help.

[KBF-Crim]

Yes, this is the issue.  People are getting awfully expectant about the source codes, but are there programmers to handle the task?? 

Yep...

Supposedly, Taldren was a group of professionals working full time to develop these titles. 

Kinda backanded compliment...dont you think?

Wasnt bruno from the community?

Wasnt Magnum man from the community?

Khoros?

I have my doubts as to llkelihood of any vast changes in the game i.e additional races, new weapon systems, etc within even a year or more of the source code being opened. 

Time will tell....

Once upon a time final patches for EAW , OP, and SFC3 looked "unlikely"...

Small tweaks here and there may be very doable. 

Very..

Adding stuff?  Sounds tough to me.

Not so tough....whats tuff is getting new stuff to play nice nice with all the old stuff...

  I am not impuning anyone's coding skills.

BUT.....

 

I know nothing of programming.

Really?

Who will be the programmers?

Quite few people come to mind right away...we allready play with/on things they have created for us...I wont be so crass as to embarrass anyone by throwing names about though...

  How will they manage tasks and work together? 

Probably without your allways positive input...

What are the priorities? 

Fix crap.....like get SQL to hold more than 25 peeps...for instance...

Who will set them??

Who cares?...put up a poll...see what peeps want...flip a damn coin....let beta testers decide...Anything other than "put leptin in charge"  is cool with me....

 

If you think there were arguments over server details, just imagine those over game engine issues.

Yeah...imagine having to remember all the stuff we talked, threatend, ranted over, and begged for....when I was testing...

 

Will we resurrect the old rebates over hold costs and charge cost for plasma torps, fusion cannons, etc??

Good....some of those arguements never came to logical conclusions....they were artificially ended or made moot by design decisions....most often due to time contstraints.....something no longer effecting what is decided...

Be that as it may, this would be the biggest challenge to this community ever.

maybe yes...maybe no...

  Not that it can't be done, but caution is advisable.

Agreed

[Merlinfmct87]

I smell the possibility of new and different weapons, maybe more than 16 races, etc.. all kinds of fun!

Time to learn C++

Way ahead of you. I'm going to make the Andro DisDevs if it kills me...

Now let's see...next is recursive functions...:O

Merlin

[Rod ONeal]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong (I figured that if I didn't ask that nobody would do it ), but do we need the Q3 file? Or can we do a lot of worthwhile stuff without it. From what I understand Khoromag didn't have access to the Q3 file for patching purposes. I think that it's only needed if you want to add something to the UI. While that would put a big limitation on what could be done, no new races or systems, it seems that there would still be plenty of usefull and worthwhile things to do. Your work on the SQL, for example. Possibly fixing the DAC, which I swear is wrong but have no proof of it. Doing something with the G-racks, at least making it so an ADD rack is taken offline for a period for each drone that is fired, maybe? etc...

[Bonk]

I don't think you'll be able to compile a working executable without the code that reads the sprites file.
The serverkit is another matter however...

[USS Mariner]

Well, while we're on the subject, how exactly could UI's be changed? Would we have to "alter" exsisting ones or create brand new ones from the ground up?

If we have to pay for this to get done, maybe we should talk about getting a PayPal setup if Quicksilver wants money...I'm sure all of us donating $25 would easily be enough to buy the company.

[Strafer]

Now let's see...next is recursive functions...:O

Merlin

Also known as "How many rings can this tower_of_hanoi program process before running out of stack" challenge.

[Rod ONeal]

Well, while we're on the subject, how exactly could UI's be changed? Would we have to "alter" exsisting ones or create brand new ones from the ground up?

If we have to pay for this to get done, maybe we should talk about getting a PayPal setup if Quicksilver wants money...I'm sure all of us donating $25 would easily be enough to buy the company.

You know, after I went to their site I was thinking something similar, although not as colorful . It appears to have been abandoned 2 years ago. I didn't see any updates at all since early 2002. I wish that we'd hear something from Erik on how it's going. 

[Fluf]

Well, while we're on the subject, how exactly could UI's be changed? Would we have to "alter" exsisting ones or create brand new ones from the ground up?

If we have to pay for this to get done, maybe we should talk about getting a PayPal setup if Quicksilver wants money...I'm sure all of us donating $25 would easily be enough to buy the company.

You know, after I went to their site I was thinking something similar, although not as colorful . It appears to have been abandoned 2 years ago. I didn't see any updates at all since early 2002. I wish that we'd hear something from Erik on how it's going. 

Dont we all!   

Guess we shall just have to wait and see what happens.

[KBF-Crim]

Back up plan A....fan out and find Arctic....

Back up plan B...someone drive over and look through taldrens dumpster...

Back up plan C....stake out Daves house out and look through HIS garbage....24 hrs after leaving a LARGE amount of small bills into his mail box....

back up plan D.....chip in....fly two guys to korea...get Eirk drunk....tell him they are investigating software piracy...ask for some code to compare...

back up plan E....send southern california to Eirk...one box of dirt at a time.....COD....we'll stop when A) get the code or B)...we run out of southern california....

Back up plan F....Torment Erik with endless ESG sound loops played through loudspeakers....

[Age]

Well, while we're on the subject, how exactly could I's be changed? Would we have to "alter" ex sisting ones or create brand new ones from the ground up?

If we have to pay for this to get done, maybe we should talk about getting a PayPal setup if Quicksilver wants money...I'm sure all of us donating $25 would easily be enough to buy the company.

You know, after I went to their site I was thinking something similar, although not as colorful . It appears to have been abandoned 2 years ago. I didn't see any updates at all since early 2002. I wish that we'd hear something from Erik on how it's going. 

Dont we all!   

Guess we shall just have to wait and see what happens.

Well you said what I was going to say but they probably won't give it up unless there is some profit to gain for releasing and they wouldn't give it away as they are business and are in the business to make money not source codes.It is all about profit pure and simple.Sorry to say this.

[SkyFlyer]

I think Plan F will work best..

[Fluf]

Naw I would go with Plan G = "All the above"!

[SkyFlyer]

Naw fluf... that would screw everything up...  Everything is your fault... What is wrong with you? Dude that is the lamest excuse for a plan i ever heard. Dude u suck
Dude i need to make a new topic so i can flame u.. .

[Bonk]

I wouldn't mess with the Duke of Pies... 

As Mariner Class suggested, I'll pay if that's what it takes.
I don't think we can afford to buy Quicksilver but perhaps some kind of a license could be arranged? I estimate a core (die hard) fan group of about 200. $25 each would only be $5000. $50 bucks each would give 10K... which just might be enough? Myself, I'd be willing to go up to $100 (US). If we could muster 200 $100 donations we could offer 20K, a fair chunk of change that any sane company would have to at least consider.

I'm tempted to write to Quicksilver myself and beg and plead for our case... Would that be out of line?


P.S. like Rod, I am suspicious of the DAC as well, but then there were times I swore the dice were broken...

[The Postman]

Erik/Ann said they were working on getting the code released. Let's give them some time to see what they can accomplish before this group tries anything.

[Rod ONeal]

Erik/Ann said they were working on getting the code released. Let's give them some time to see what they can accomplish before this group tries anything.

Well, one thing to remember is that it's the weekend now. Not much business conducted on weekends. So, we're gonna have to wait a couple of days anyhow, it seems.

I'm tempted to write to Quicksilver myself and beg and plead for our case... Would that be out of line?


P.S. like Rod, I am suspicious of the DAC as well, but then there were times I swore the dice were broken...

I agree that pleading our cases to quicksilver might not be a bad idea either. Maybe if there's no news after the weekend we dhould try something along those lines.

As far as dice go the the side with 6 dimples is the lightest. It always made sense to me that it'd end up facing up more than the other numbers. That's my theory, anyway.

[GFLNimitz]

<S>All

   As senior MOD designer for the GFL, I am very excited about the possible release of the source code. We are already assembling a team of programmers capable of meeting this challenge. We have 6 guys who are ready  to put in full time hours on this project. I think our first task will be to convert our Cardassian AI race to a playable race with unique weaponry. Having just spent 14 months designing and then testing GFLMOD2.0, I'm very confident this release will make this game become something far greater than it is already!

[Age]

I wouldn't mess with the Duke of Pies... 

As Mariner Class suggested, I'll pay if that's what it takes.
I don't think we can afford to buy Quicksilver but perhaps some kind of a license could be arranged? I estimate a core (die hard) fan group of about 200. $25 each would only be $5000. $50 bucks each would give 10K... which just might be enough? Myself, I'd be willing to go up to $100 (US). If we could muster 200 $100 donations we could offer 20K, a fair chunk of change that any sane company would have to at least consider.

I'm tempted to write to Quicksilver myself and beg and plead for our case... Would that be out of line?


P.S. like Rod, I am suspicious of the DAC as well, but then there were times I swore the dice were broken...

They would probably want more than you are suggesting if it were me holding it.I would want at least 100K up 300K for that little piece of hot commodity.This community can not generate that amount of cash.If so I would of much wanted to buy and move the data base from Taldren instead of the source code.Taldrens data base alone is worth 15k to 3k.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Magnum, there is a ways to go before code is released.

Read what Pestalence wrote.

http://63.101.60.125/forum/index.php/topic,76.0.html

[Bonk]

I wouldn't mess with the Duke of Pies... 

As Mariner Class suggested, I'll pay if that's what it takes.
I don't think we can afford to buy Quicksilver but perhaps some kind of a license could be arranged? I estimate a core (die hard) fan group of about 200. $25 each would only be $5000. $50 bucks each would give 10K... which just might be enough? Myself, I'd be willing to go up to $100 (US). If we could muster 200 $100 donations we could offer 20K, a fair chunk of change that any sane company would have to at least consider.

I'm tempted to write to Quicksilver myself and beg and plead for our case... Would that be out of line?


P.S. like Rod, I am suspicious of the DAC as well, but then there were times I swore the dice were broken...

They would probably want more than you are suggesting if it were me holding it.I would want at least 100K up 300K for that little piece of hot commodity.This community can not generate that amount of cash.If so I would of much wanted to buy and move the data base from Taldren instead of the source code.Taldrens data base alone is worth 15k to 3k.

To me a file format is worth nothing unless it is public. (zip, rar, bmp, jpg, mpg, wav, mp3... I needn't go on).
Honestly, keeping a 2d image library propietary strikes me as just plain weird. 

I'm sure we could do without it, develop our own possibly superior format or just use a standard format that makes sense like was done for the sounds and voices...

P.S. WT - we're already stewing over what to do about Quicksilver and their old, old, old, old, old, old, q3 file format. (1998)

Also, I'm already looking at how to decode the sprites file, I don't see the sense in trying to protect it, that will just motivate people like me to try harder to crack it... which will not be that hard once started anyway. Quicksilver really has no choice here as I see it.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Bonk, OK, let's say QuickSilver does release it ... or its cracked. Consider that a done deal then.

But, then we get into the SFC3 engine -- a much messier task as it applies to all the nonsense still going on with Viacom/Paramount/ACVI, etc.

What are the chances of getting ACVI to just hand over the D-3 "stuff"?

One thing I know the SFC3 players want are more weapons choices ...

<S>

WT

[Bonk]

I agree, that source release for SFC3 is unlikely, as I doubt Activision will ever do this community any favours. I can even imagine them not releasing it out of spite alone. That is unfortunate for the SFC3 crew as I know that lots of people would like to try and "improve" on it. (3d movement and other things that will further separate it from the naval simulation of SFC2/SFB...) Its a good thing that SFC3 is already quite moddable, there is no shortage of talent in that department in the SFC3 crew.

I'm only really concerned with OP and the other SFB based SFC's (I don't own SFC3 anymore). I'm sorry if it sounds selfish but that's all I'm interested in, the source for the OP serverkit mainly (no Quicksilver issues there) and the code for the OP client. The way I see it nothing should be holding back an OP source release, with or without the quicksilver code.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

It's not selfish, Bonk. We just all have our different talents in different areas of interest.

Just curious, as I know there is a lot of EAW/OP talent in the house ... Is anyone heading up an SFC3 "improvement project"? If not, can we?

With some work and persistance, the ACVI boys might just be willing to play ball if approached in the right way. The Viacom/ACVI court battle won't go on forever, and I'll lay odds it gets settled soon.

Meantime, if a small team of SFC3 folks put their brains together, you might see things take shape. There is a lot of SFC3 talk in the house here, but we tend to all work on our little projects solo.

Just a thought.

<S>

WaterKitten

[The Postman]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SFC3 built on the OP engine and if so wouldn't Quicksilver have an interest in that as well?

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Correct. But it gets more complicated with the ACVI engine.

[MrCue]

Well, im here, i dont play OP. Im askin for SFC3, but in all honesty i dont think we will be seeing it soon.

[Bonk]

I'm not really up on what's happening in the SFC3 domain, my only involvement is that I'm going to take a crack at an SFC3 webmap soon when I get some db samples.

I think that a D3 Improvement Project is not a bad idea... we're just about to get a look at the initial results of the D2 Improvement Project. I wasn't involved but there's a lot of good minds working on it, I'm eager to see the result.

As you say, people will always go off in their own directions, but a core organised group will be particularly important if sources are released.

I'm always a little wary of anything designed by a commitee... down the road I see compliing a "greatest hits" of the works of individuals - to take the most successful changes and put them all together if possible.

[Bonk]

Well, im here, i dont play OP.

Cmon, it'll make ya feel good!   Everybody's doing it!  j/k

It is unfortunate that an SFC3 source release is unlikely, I just don't want it to hold up the release of OP if possible.

[MrCue]

I would like to see all the sources released. I think the possibilities would be endless.
The priorities right now, shoud however be to get the server kits for OP and 3 released, i cant see any reason for a hold up on them and would allow the correction of the remaining bugs.

[Bonk]

Hear, hear! 

[Magnum357]

Ya, I agree.  I think its unlikely that we will ever see the SFC3 source code released.  I play SFC3 a lot, but I think it is very unlikely that Activision would ever release that code.

But what about SFC1?  Even if OP or EAW source code was not released, SFC1 is a pretty solid game.  If Quick Silver is not too hot too trout about OP or EAW source codes being released, at least getting the SFC1 source code would be better then nothing in my opinion.

[Max Power]

As for what to do if we were to get hold of the code, I would think that a poll put up to the members of what features/improvements to work on would be the way to go. IMO, the things to do first would be:

1. Fix the fighter bugs that went in with the last patch of OP.
2. Remove the insane and silly lock that prohibits fighters and PF's for all the races. Also remove the inability to put fighters and PF's on the same ship.

Reason for one is that I think the first step would be to fix all remaining known bug issues with existing code before moving to the next step. While others have noted possible DAC problems and other suspected bugs, the only "I'm absolutely sure this is a bug" issue OP has is the fighter AI. The second thing I suspect would be very easy to do, as the code already exists. You would just need to activate it for all the races.

Of course, we first would need to put together a code team, and even before that get the source code. I agree with all that some form of centralized control would be essential to making everything work.

[Bonk]

2. Remove the insane and silly lock that prohibits fighters and PF's for all the races. Also remove the inability to put fighters and PF's on the same ship

Oh yeah! 

[MrCue]

As for organisation and control, isnt that part of what the DGA is here for?
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163342527.0.html

[Bonk]

As for organisation and control, isnt that part of what the DGA is here for?
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163342527.0.html

So how do we get involved?

[Grim]

Hopefully something that can be done about the total cock up that is the fighter/PF interaction.

[Bonk]

Hopefully something that can be done about the total cock up that is the fighter/PF interaction.

Ya, it would be nice if fighters would engage the target that they were ordered to attack instead of heading for the nearest enemy attrition regardless.

[Rod ONeal]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SFC3 built on the OP engine and if so wouldn't Quicksilver have an interest in that as well?

There's a "sprites.Q3" file in SFC3 as well.

[Rod ONeal]

Well, im here, i dont play OP. Im askin for SFC3, but in all honesty i dont think we will be seeing it soon.

I'm pretty sure that Erik and/or Dave have stated that atvi doesn't own squat of the source code. Besides, more people might go out and buy it if the other TNG races were able to be added. The community could "finish" the game without the deadline for a movie and Christmas hanging over it's head.

[Rod ONeal]

The PF races can have Ftrs on their ships. Only one per bay though. So by removing the "1x PF per bay rule" (let it have 6 just as you can with Ftrs) and switching the Ftr races to PF races we'd be able to not only have Ftrs and PFs for all of the races, but BCS and SCS variants as well without the antics that we have to go through right now. The PFs that were grouped together in a single bay would fly in formation like ftrs do and get replacements though. That would be a bit screwy.

[Max Power]

As you can see, there is some work to be done.

[Age]

Ya, I agree.  I think its unlikely that we will ever see the SFC3 source code released.  I play SFC3 a lot, but I think it is very unlikely that Activision would ever release that code.

But what about SFC1?  Even if OP or EAW source code was not released, SFC1 is a pretty solid game.  If Quick Silver is not too hot too trout about OP or EAW source codes being released, at least getting the SFC1 source code would be better then nothing in my opinion.

Then you can fix those Dizzies that shoot out green whatever and make the ships look like they are burning up.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Well, im here, i dont play OP. Im askin for SFC3, but in all honesty i dont think we will be seeing it soon.

I'm pretty sure that Erik and/or Dave have stated that atvi doesn't own squat of the source code. Besides, more people might go out and buy it if the other TNG races were able to be added. The community could "finish" the game without the deadline for a movie and Christmas hanging over it's head.

Well, that's the rub, Rod.ACVI does own major pieces of the engine fr SFC3 -- proprietary stuff. Taldren's part was indeed 3rd party, although significant with the OP portion of the code.

Here is what Pestalence says:

the Sprites.q3 file is a major part of the game.. actually it composes over 2/3 of the game.. that source code belongs to Quicksilver, They are the one's who created the code for SFC 1, which the same code has been used in all 4 incarnations of SFC.. as such, Until Taldren get's permission from Quicksilver Gaming, SFC Source Code can not be released..

also as far as SFC 3 goes, Activision still owns all rights concerning SFC 3.. It is yet undetermined if they have released permiaaion for the source code for that game as of yet.. Taldren will keep the communities informed if Activision and Quick Silver will release source code for the SFC gaming series.. interplayu has consented on previous titles.. but the fact remains that Taldren does not own the code to the Sprites.q3 file which is 2/3 of the game (it controlls all the ships and graphics and panels in game). As such.. it may be a while before the source code is released... but Taldren is looking into it.
=========

Pesty seems to think that ACVI will be easier to deal with than Quicksilver, but I'm not so sure on that.

Where is Pesty when you need him?

<S>

WaterTiger

[ATimson]

I agree, that source release for SFC3 is unlikely, as I doubt Activision will ever do this community any favours. I can even imagine them not releasing it out of spite alone.

Myself and others have asked them about releasing source code for other, much older games (the MechWarrior games); they simply refuse to.

[kv1at3485]

Pride dies hard, doesn't it?

They release the code, the fans fix long-complained about bugs quickly and easily, add improvements to the game with relative ease...

It would be enough to embarress any 'user support' department.  Especially Activision's... 

[Sethan]

If I remember correctly, sprites.q3 is what defines the UIs - so without the source code for it, there can't be any new UIs, or much in the way of alteration to existing ones.

The source without the source for sprites.q3 would still be plenty useful, as there's lots that could be done.

As to the fans fixing long-complained about bugs quickly and easily, I wouldn't count on that.  We have some very talented folks in the community, some of whom had access to the code for quite a while - but they would be working on this in their spare time.

I would hope that (aside from bug fixes), new features that alter gameplay would either be with the support of the general community, or options that could be selected by the user or server admin (like destroyable bases in D2).

[Rod ONeal]

If Taldren has the licensing for it then how about Erik put us all on the payroll for $.01 a year.

[FireSoul]

If I remember correctly, sprites.q3 is what defines the UIs - so without the source code for it, there can't be any new UIs, or much in the way of alteration to existing ones.

The source without the source for sprites.q3 would still be plenty useful, as there's lots that could be done.

As to the fans fixing long-complained about bugs quickly and easily, I wouldn't count on that.  We have some very talented folks in the community, some of whom had access to the code for quite a while - but they would be working on this in their spare time.

I would hope that (aside from bug fixes), new features that alter gameplay would either be with the support of the general community, or options that could be selected by the user or server admin (like destroyable bases in D2).

The SFC .EXE sources probably include code from QuickSilver. This is probably why the .EXE is a large single file. I don't think it's possible to release just the SFC code without the quicksiilver code and it be useful to us in a state where it can be compiled.

-- Luc

[Magnum357]

One thing I'm really concerned about is what condition the source could would be in if they did release it.  I have heard a few other games where the source code was like "spigetti" and all over the place with no pseudo code for reference and help.  We can only hope Taldren and Quicksilver not only give us the code, but some "manual" or reference too tell us what means what in the code.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Quote

What are the priorities?

Fix crap.....like get SQL to hold more than 25 peeps...for instance...

2 funny.

We were just having this 30 post debate in the admins forums. Six months later, **shines his nails** MYSQL still has open threading and can't work with this game over 25'ish. The dreamers seem to think it will. I'm a realist.

Yes, Castrin, so far I win. Prove me wrong. rofl 

<S>

WaterKitten

[Bonk]

If Taldren has the licensing for it then how about Erik put us all on the payroll for $.01 a year.

Not a bad idea at all if it would work!

[Bonk]

If I remember correctly, sprites.q3 is what defines the UIs - so without the source code for it, there can't be any new UIs, or much in the way of alteration to existing ones.

The source without the source for sprites.q3 would still be plenty useful, as there's lots that could be done.

As to the fans fixing long-complained about bugs quickly and easily, I wouldn't count on that.  We have some very talented folks in the community, some of whom had access to the code for quite a while - but they would be working on this in their spare time.

I would hope that (aside from bug fixes), new features that alter gameplay would either be with the support of the general community, or options that could be selected by the user or server admin (like destroyable bases in D2).

The SFC .EXE sources probably include code from QuickSilver. This is probably why the .EXE is a large single file. I don't think it's possible to release just the SFC code without the quicksiilver code and it be useful to us in a state where it can be compiled.

-- Luc

See replies #9 and #25 on page one of this thread...   It would be better to have it though of course.

[TalonClaw]

One thing I'm really concerned about is what condition the source could would be in if they did release it.  I have heard a few other games where the source code was like "spigetti" and all over the place with no pseudo code for reference and help.  We can only hope Taldren and Quicksilver not only give us the code, but some "manual" or reference too tell us what means what in the code.

Magnuman told me a while back that the source code for EAW was very well done. OP and SFC3 used that as a foundation so I wouldn't worry about that.

But if you don't know C++ well you won't get it anyway.

[TalonClaw]

I think what people crave is the Captain that will rush in where Angels fear to tread.

Kirk was always quick to shoot and was full of action.  He would eventually do the right thing but generally was the type who was not afraid of the fight.  He was a Hero.  He saved the Earth and the Federation countless times.  We haven't had a hero like that in the Trek Universe since him.

[RazalYllib]

From what I have gathered, only the game exe is bound to the sprites.

That being said, at a minimum, Taldren should have 100% of source code rights to the server kit source, or am I reading to much into the discussion?

[Demandred]

Personally, I don't see why they used the q3 format in the first place. It's just a file of images!

Getting the source would be good but I wouldn't expect anything much for at least a year while the devlopers learn the codebase from top to bottom in their spare time. I'd have a look at it myself but I'm not much for C++ UI - backend daemons in C is the closest my experience comes to it.

The server kit code would be excellent to get a hold of - I don't know why the SQL kit is so flakey but my gut feeling is that they bolted database queries on in place of file I/O. Not to mention, we could port it to a better server OS.

[Bonk]

  What he said. (again)

(but there are a few other object types in the q3 file i think...)

[Age]

  I have discovered from a reliable source that if the code is released .That Taldren will no longer be making anymore SFC games as the programmers and modders in here can make it them selves.This why I am kinda opposed to this .The big question is if the programmers and modders in here do this and Viacom find out you could have liable suit of infringement on copyright.This is if you do it for yourself but once you release it for DL to the public they can get you.It doesn't matter where you live as you will be seeing their Attorneys in your home town.The only legal things you can do is make changes to the current games.I wouldn't mind fixing and re suppling my ship at an Allied starbase or planet.

[KBF-Crim]

  I have discovered from a reliable source that if the code is released .That Taldren will no longer be making anymore SFC games as the programmers and modders in here can make it them selves.

Age...Taldren CANT make anymore SFC games.....they dont have license to....

This why I am kinda opposed to this .

You shouldnt be...

The big question is if the programmers and modders in here do this and Viacom find out you could have liable suit of infringement on copyright.

Huh?...I seriously doubt it...Harry lang is pretty familiar with the mods that have been released to date...

This is if you do it for yourself but once you release it for DL to the public they can get you.

No age...if you SELL it they can get you...because you are generating income from their intellectual property...

It doesn't matter where you live as you will be seeing their Attorneys in your home town.

See above...

The only legal things you can do is make changes to the current games.

And thats what we're the plan is....to CONTINUE modding the game.....that's all...if someone tries to go out and sell a game to a publisher based on Paramount and Taldren property...they SHOULD get sued...

I wouldn't mind fixing and re suppling my ship at an Allied starbase or planet.

That may or may not be possible....That SFC3 function MIGHT be able to be backward engineered into OP....

*shrug*.....lets worry bout getting the stuff first eh....then we'll worry bout what to do with it...

[Demandred]

  I have discovered from a reliable source that if the code is released .That Taldren will no longer be making anymore SFC games as the programmers and modders in here can make it them selves.This why I am kinda opposed to this .The big question is if the programmers and modders in here do this and Viacom find out you could have liable suit of infringement on copyright.This is if you do it for yourself but once you release it for DL to the public they can get you.It doesn't matter where you live as you will be seeing their Attorneys in your home town.The only legal things you can do is make changes to the current games.I wouldn't mind fixing and re suppling my ship at an Allied starbase or planet.

They won't sue fans that are doing it purely on a non-profit basis. It's extremely bad publicity.

[Magnum357]

I agree.  We are doing this to help "enhance" the game, not make a whole new game and sell it.  Its purely non-profit.  Maybe Age is worried that we are going too make a whole new Star Trek game and distribute it for free and let people DL it like Music. 

all I would like too have is an SFC:GAW (with hopefuly a functional Andor and Tholian races) and a SFC3 with Cardassians and more features like editable weapons and make your own components for ships.  Now that would be a moders dream for SFC3.

[Whoo]

Key word should be "mod"
anything else might attract the interest of paramount...
perish the though!

[Age]

  Yeah (yawn) excuse me while I am little tired.You could say that we paid for ours why should other get it for free.I not a programmer or a complete modder I do know how do a customized shiplist though.I just afraid of what you programmers would do it like being an Engineer you always like to change things things that others might not like.This typical of Engineers I know some of them.The only thing that I would want to see on OP is a real cloak and if possible reversing engines.

   I guess what you are talking about is GAW OPs Expansion Game am I right in assuming this.What I did say though once the source code is released and I have this by a reliable source is that Taldren can no longer make any SFC game because you guys can do it for your selves.If Taldren is going to or has any plans to make another SFC game they will use the same source code that you all have.This what I meant and I have this from a reliable source. (yawn)

[Rod ONeal]

I sure hope that nobody changes OP's cloak. It was a ton of work for Dave to get it right and I don't want to see it messed up again.

Andros and Tholians, etc... eventually, of course. 

For starters, get SQL to be stable with large player numbers and expand the scripting capabilities. Some missing/incomplete game functions such as expanded EW functions (special sensors were obviously intended), plasma bolts, more drone types (I agree that the Kzinti/Mirak would be a whole lot more interesting then. All of the drone races, of course, would benefit.), direct fire hellbores, and divide up the volleys more like they are intended to be for better Mizia effect, There are many more weapons, besides the PPD which are supposed to count as seperate volleys. Since they have it in there for the PPD it should be able to be added to other weapons too. It would be real nice to fix the G and D racks as well. Although I have a feeling that might be tougher than a lot of us imagine.
There's plenty along these lines to work on and none of it is Trek (read copyrighted by Paramount).

[KBF-Crim]

 Yeah (yawn) excuse me while I am little tired.

Get some rest eh...

You could say that we paid for ours why should other get it for free.

Get WHAT for free?...A Patch?...did YOU pay for your patch?....did ANYONE!?!

What were talking about is a PATCH age...NOT a new game...

I not a programmer or a complete modder I do know how do a customized shiplist though.I just afraid of what you programmers would do it like being an Engineer you always like to change things things that others might not like.This typical of Engineers I know some of them.The only thing that I would want to see on OP is a real cloak and if possible reversing engines.

Well... I dont want reverse in the game...we allready have a problem...

 

  I guess what you are talking about is GAW OPs Expansion Game am I right in assuming this.

No age...what we're talking about is another PATCH....nothing more....nothing less...

Bugs first...features next...balance last....

What I did say though once the source code is released and I have this by a reliable source is that Taldren can no longer make any SFC game because you guys can do it for your selves.

  OMG.....

DUDE!.....THEY CANT DO ANYMORE SFC GAME RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are not licensed to do ANY Startrek stuff...AT ALL...

There were ceratain rights to do expanasions and add-ons until 2005.....but IIRC interplay sold all rights to ATVI...who recieved the rights to expansions and add-ons to EAW,,,I dont know...

OP is an EXPANSION for EAW...

If Taldren is going to or has any plans to make another SFC game they will use the same source code that you all have.

Grrr...are you reading these posts?

The game engine contains elements licensed from ADB, and paramount....IF...taldren were to do another game based on the SFC engine...the engine would have to be changed so much as to not even be the same...it would be a better use of time to simply write a new one anyways..

This what I meant and I have this from a reliable source. (yawn)

PM me who this source is.....I'll tell you how reliable it is...until then...it's simply hearsay...

[Javora]

You could say that we paid for ours why should other get it for free.

Get WHAT for free?...A Patch?...did YOU pay for your patch?....did ANYONE!?!

What were talking about is a PATCH age...NOT a new game...

I don?t think that is what Age is talking about.  If I understand Age?s question correctly he concerned that someone could remove the CD key code from SFC.  Then SFC could be released to the Internet.  So if and when the source code is released.  Other people who didn?t pay for SFC could download and play the game without spending a dime for it.  I have to admit that I have been concerned about this as well ever since the topic of releasing the SFC code came up.  But then I haven?t seen a SFC game on the store shelves in ages.  If the game is no longer being produced for resale and no one is making money or intends to make money off SFC does it really matter?  I?m torn on this, I want the community to grow, but at the same time I don?t want SFC to become a warez?s dream come true.  I?m sure this is one of the companies sticking points about weather or not they want to release the source code.  Maybe it doesn?t matter if the CD key code is removed I think that we need more discussion on this point.

  cut?
 The only thing that I would want to see on OP is a real cloak and if possible reversing engines.

Well... I dont want reverse in the game...we allready have a problem...

I don?t know if the source code is released for SFC III and the code for reverse can be ported over to SFC  II/OP I wouldn?t mind seeing reverse myself.


 

  I guess what you are talking about is GAW OPs Expansion Game am I right in assuming this.

No age...what we're talking about is another PATCH....nothing more....nothing less...

Bugs first...features next...balance last....

Are we??!?  That is the problem I see if and when the source code is released.  Someone who has the ability could try to make a GAW.  SFC could be changed in ways that no one could control.  We could soon see versions SFC made that would not work with other versions of SFC.  But then a simple patch would do the same thing.  Then again if someone has the ability and the time to make GAW, why should that person or people be held back?  Is there going to be some sort of reviewing body and if so who will put in charge of this?  What if someone adds a ?feature(s)? that no one likes or worse hates?  Who will make the decision to have that feature canceled or removed?  IMHO if the source code is released it should be released for everyone.  Any changes made will have to be approved by a person of group of people similar to Linux.  But then wait a minute, what about the CD code??!?  We really need more discussion about this.

PM me who this source is.....I'll tell you how reliable it is...until then...it's simply hearsay...

This type of hearsay needs to be brought under control, maybe we need a facts page locked stuck on the top of this forum.  This way no one can post and confuse the facts and facts can be added as more information is made known to us.

I hope I am making sense here, I think Age isn?t the only person that needs sleep.    If I am making any sense here could someone start a topic on this?  Nite all.

[0mega1]

hell, as everyone has been saying y dont we all bribe 1 guy into giving the source code, it doesnt have to be veryone, just a single person, thet will keep everything quiet, id be willing to pay 200 bucks for a copy of the source code, just think   200*200=? u do the math im 2 lazy lol, actually its 40K, now who would refuse such a generous offer for a freaking copy of source code to a goddam game?!?!?!?

[Bonk]

hell, as everyone has been saying y dont we all bribe 1 guy into giving the source code, it doesnt have to be veryone, just a single person, thet will keep everything quiet, id be willing to pay 200 bucks for a copy of the source code, just think   200*200=? u do the math im 2 lazy lol, actually its 40K, now who would refuse such a generous offer for a freaking copy of source code to a goddam game?!?!?!?

I think more than $200 would be appropriate... more like $200,000 - at least enough to have some left over after the lawsuit...

Personally, judging by past communications fom Taldren I'd say at this point we will not see the source unless leaked or stolen... so start your decompilers gentlemen!

[Whoo]

Drone speeds per rack not load out...
All I gotta say