Topic: My VA results are back

[Stormbringer]

60 percent disability. I was expecting about 20 percent. With the hypocritical concurrent reciept prohibition repealed, this amounts to about 814 dollars tax free and 1100 SSA pension (eventually). plus the army pension $1500.  So it looks like without my voc job I will be getting about 3400 per month. The doctors said the only reason I was not down for the count is i'm so cussedly onry.  

The electrician aptitude test came back  a seven. Pretty good for being totally unaware of what was to be tested. So I will be going for an interview in july. Then I will move to get a house closer to school in OKC. Just stopping in to update a few friends.  

[Sirgod]

Fantastic Jerry. Dang this Last week has Made alot of things Come Full Circle for you Bro.

Stephen

[The_Joker]

This is off subject, but not.  I never had a proper ETS physical, and I'd like to get my records reviewed.  I had recurring problems with my knees while in the service, and it keeps getting worse, do you know what I need to do?  

[Stormbringer]

Do you have a copy of your records? If not you need to request a copy. the VA office can tell you the contact info. They can also tell you whether you need thier exams or to go to other doctors for documentation. Call the VA at 800-827-1000 and ask to talk to a rep when you get through thier automated system. once you have your records it could take some time to get it processed since so much time has elapsed. You were supposed to do this when you got out. It would have taken 90 days or less. Jack may know more about it and have better info than me. I'm not used to VA procedures yet. This is stuff I recall from various briefings I went through.

[Stormbringer]

I will have to petition the SSA for pay and they can sometimes be a bear on it. I should not have anytrouble but there is always tales of people needing a lawyer to get thier benifits started. So I'm not sure when that will kick in. But the VA disability will kick in in august.  

[JMM]

Remember what I said Jerry, get it in black and white first, it's called an award letter. Jerry is getting confirmation today as he was too excited on the phone yesterday.  

60 percent definitely opens up many more doors than 10 to 50 percent does.  

[Dash Jones]

How can you apply for disability AND be retired?  It seems rather...opposite...letting someone who is crippled work?

Talk me through the process...you worked for the military, did your 20, retired...and then you get disability!?  Why?

[Stormbringer]

Because the accumulated damage and injuries to my body amount to a 60 percent decrease in physical ability.  ! started out completely free of defect and in service to my country, some of it in combat, I sacrificed my health. The government recognizing the nature of military service, and the people grateful for those that do have enacted laws over time that say we will be compensated for disability incurred while in service. I was able to go twenty years by will and by luck. Had things happened differently I would be medically retired and my compensation would be 100 percent pay and 100% tax free. I chose to serve twenty. I could have requested a medical board. Or I could have been forced out by medical board had things happened different.

At the end of service a soldier is examined and medical records reviewed to determine how much he or she is disabled. For example; I have been crushed by falling trailers, hit by vehicles, shot, worn out shoulders, thoracic outlet syndrome, GERD, Hypertension, sciatia, Destroyed right hip joint, scar tissue in quadriceps that cuts off blood flow to my leg and irritates the bursa and the sciatic branch nerve causing generalized inflamation and phantom pain, my knee is destroyed, and I have chronic depression. Essentially my entire right side of my body is greatly weakened and painful.There are times where I am completely incapacitated by nerve pain.  The govt determined 60 percent disability. They assume I cannot do quite a few things and will have a hard time working as a result.  

EDIT:  But I was able to work around my problems. Motrin, other medicines and such kept it under control most of the time. Selective leaves and passes. Gutting out pain when those other things were impossible. There have been times when I worked with my head locked against my shoulder by continuous muscle spasms and times when going up a fight of stairs took ten minutes. The most debilitating injuries took place when I was not in a line unit nad thus could work around it. If it occured when I was deployed or in a hardship tour I would have been medically chaptered out and not retired.

[JMM]

Here you go Dash,

http://www.azlegion.org/Retiredisablity.htm

We put our arses on the line so that many other could stay behind and party or whatever and enjoy their freedom, security, jobs, family life and their personal lives. President Lincoln realized this so ever since then citizen Americans have to fork up some of their pennies and contribute.

I recently got in touch with an army buddy of mine who was Col. Nash's driver in 3rd AD. He is 60 percent VA disabled ($800 plus a month) , gets Social Security Disability ($1800 a month as he worked for 35 years), and is currently on medical leave as a federal police officer at Eglin Air Force base (GS-6 rate minimum). Not too bad at all! My Social Security disability payments are over 800 (I have not worked 35 years) and I'm on 100 percent  ($2366 a month) from VA! Even after my medical review in Aug, if they drop me to 70 percent (Which authorizes me to work again) I still get $1100 a month plus AND I can work (Thus earning MORE MONEY) and go to school and collect my Army College Fund ($1200 a month for the semester).  

While all these bennies may seem like it goes out to everyone, it does NOT. Only 35 percent of veterans are in the 10-30 percent disability compensation range, and only 8 percent of veterans are in my category, which is 100 percent. By veterans I mean ALL American military veterans, whether they register with VA or not. VA's budget is a little over 60 billion a year, believe me, it is chump change, while "our hero" Bush has spent TWICE that amount in Iraq with no tangible results and plans on spending billions more if reelected. The majority of VA money goes NOT into veterans compensation, but into health care (They have clinics and hospitals all over the nation), the domicillaries, and then there is the civvie tabs they pick up like when I was in the E.R. in April. They also employ many civil service workers that have to be paid.

You also have to realize that soldiers are still way underpaid unless you are an officer or senior NCO, a private with a family will probably be applying for food stamps and other help from state agencies. I've seen it before, it's no joke.

Here is a list of ALL they do with that 60 billion dollars, if only other agencies were so efficient:

http://www.va.gov/

We could have saved a lot of money budget wise with the largest group (WW2 veterans) dying off, but believe me, there will be a BUNCH of screwed up vets getting out of the service when Iraq and Afghanistan and God knows where else we go have come and gone, so I imagine we will see an increase in disability compensation, as well as concurrent retirement and disability because they put a "stop-loss" on the military and some of the guys and gals over there are serving in combat areas and should have been retired by now.

Last but not least, many states provide bennies as well, look at what Texas gives!

http://www.tvc.state.tx.us/

Land, free 4 years at ANY Texas public university, disabled veteran license plates (I can park anywhere and NOT have to pay the meter), FREE medical records and much more!

I end my rant raising my middle finger at the administration and at Halliburton! I'm getting the last laugh, not them...  



   

[Stormbringer]

Thats 817 there plus 1490 for pension. I get that letter and I'll be checking for the SSA 1100. BTW Dash, we pay SSA taxes. we are supposed to be able to get it out if and when needed but they often fight tooth and nail not to pay. I paid it. I'm getting it.

And then I'm going to apprentice as an electrician as VOC rehab and get 50K of my GI bill back in pocket. get an apprentice salary starting at 2500 and end up making almost 6K per month. within 5 years that will be 8K.

Well thats the plan anyway. Any number of things could still go wrong. Starting with SSA. Thats the least of my worries. The next thing is not being accepted into the apreticeship program or getting on the list and not being called up. This would eliminate pocketing the 50K GI bill windfall, the 2500 apprentice salary. [by agreement people in government approved vocational apprenticeship programs can draw GI bill even ifthe training is paid for by the training provider]

In the event that happens, I can use the GI bill as originally intended to pay for the VOC school or request the VA pays for it. [which risks losing diasabled status and the pay that comes with it] [probably won't do that]

[Dash Jones]

Thanks for the replies...it just seems...well...rather...hmm...I don't know how to put it delicately.  I can see someone getting Retirement pay, I can see someone get disability pay...BUT BOTH!?

It would seem that Police/officers of the law, in riding the streets probably see more and risk more every day, and have more everyday pressures than someone in the military, at least unless the military is at war.  Difference, the Policeman does it for 40 years, whilst the military man can retire by...hmmm...let's see...38 to 40 after 20 years of service.  I'd say order and safety in the US was directly due to the efforts and work of the Police force of the US.  I'd also say that over a third of the US probably hates the Police at some time or other (pulled over for a speeding ticket, DUI, etc.) and that the officers face combat of a more personal nature on at least a monthly basis.  However, when the military does it, it's called policing action, the Police...what they are expected to do for the rest of their lives (imagine the military in Iraq for the next 40, and those complaining, expected to serve there that entire time...).

In that regard, shouldn't they get BOTH disability AND retirement?

However, if we did that, we'd have to spread it to the fire fighters...I'd say they serve to protect the cities and forests of the nation on almost a daily basis...and fighting a fire I would say is definately dangerous...and deadly.  They also serve for 40 years or more...in fact, some of them do it for free...

Shouldn't they get BOTH disability AND retirement?

Now in that regard, what about teachers?  Teachers?  you ask.  If I recall, there are some that serve in some pretty bad inner city areas...areas that even normal military probably would be forbidden to go if they wanted to go on their free time (or if not, then there are some pretty stupid military people out there).  Not only that, but even the military has it's teachers.  What would you call those who teach drill, or teach in a tech school...

And if an accident happened on the job at that tech school (lets say they got hit by a car whilst going on an errand)...

That teacher in the military if they continue to teach and bear it out, would get retirement AND disability...

But if it happened on a normal campus...the teacher their would not?

I don't want to put down the men of the US military...I think those in each nation should be grateful to those who risk their lives for them...

I just see it rather ironic...

What exactly qualifies someone from the military who served 20 years to get disability and retirement vs. those above?

What puzzles me even more, is if someone is put at 60% disability, besides the fact that they are obviously 20 years older then when they went in...if someone were at any other job at 60% disability, typically they wouldn't be able to effectively perform their job (being at 40% of the ability to perform a job, that's less than accomplishing 50% of the job)...if they really were at 60% disability.

Hence, perhaps my confusion.  How can someone who really IS at 60% disability truly do a job at 100%, since to do so, theoretically speaking, they'd have to be at 100% of ability performance, otherwise their ability to perform at the job would be at 60% (yes, I'm number crunching...something the world outside the military does when evaluating profits, work etc....sorry, just something in relation), and disability SHOULD then be forced on them.

In the case of perhaps being forced out by a medical board, if someone qualifies at 60% after they retire, why isn't there an inquiry into why that person wasn't retired at 60% disability?

And finally, what sets the military personel (who may spend 4 to 8 years in a combat zone...but more likely less then a year in combat, and the rest either drilling or at a desk job, or behind the lines) apart from other such as a policeman (who spends around 20 years in the combat zone/actual law enforcement, and to be on the liberal side, maybe another 20 behind a desk, or otherwise) who risk their lives all the time and do just as much if not more in the preservation of the US?  (AS I would have thought the US would have known from events in 2001).

Not meaning to inflame, just curious, because it's not making a whole lot of sense to me.

[Stormbringer]

Yes they should; but the problem is they are paid by the city and state not the federal govt. See the problem is that troops did not get concurrent reciept but often could not work upon leaving the service while government officials saw too it that they got concurrent reciept. So a senator who sits on his butt could get the senate pension other pensions and if he is lucky a presidential pension all for hundred of thousands of dollars. In the mean time they would not let a soldier with his leg blown off fighting forthe country recieve a paltry few hundred dollars and a paltry 1400 retirement because it costs too much money. They said this while raking in millions them,selves. Well lobby groups decided to threaten to publicise this if they did not pony up. So rather than risk thier filthy lucre they finally did the honorable thing regarding soldiers. But they had to be forced all the time talking out the sides of thier face about how they worked for the veterans, cared forthem, did thier best forthem and so forth and and so forth. This is at the same time some of them tried to take away our medical benifits.


And as I said my final years in the service were at the training department. Bascically desk bound creating multimedia packages for various schools. I also taught certain technical subjects concerning Radar operations. So the physical requirements are not as demanding as pulling a 400 pound genrator cable through the undergrowth and emplacing three major components in 9 minutes or less. I created 13R training manuals, lesson plans, slide and film packets, training and job aids. I also did this for our warrant officers. I performed critical job and task analysis for the various skill levels and created skill level three and four training programs for Ancoc and BNCOC. I analysed the next generation of equipment and created manuals for them. I was responsible for the training of approximately 5000 soldiers. I instructed several hundred directly. I briefed the training budget requirements and resource requirements for annual training cycles. I repaired equipment worth millions of dollars. My work speaks for itself. Pray that when you are my age you can claim similar things in twenty years. These were just the last three years of my service.

[JMM]

Dash,

I can understand your points, but like Storm said, we are FEDERAL, not city or state. In the days of old (it changed in the late 80's. early 90's) we could retire after 20 years and then enter civil service and serve 20 and get TWO retirements, not any more, even though federal jobs and some states like Texas have laws giving veterans hiring preferences for jobs! Veterans are more than welcome to enter the civilian market and try for 20 or more and get another retirement package in addition to their military retirement, but not anymore with the federal government. Yet look at your Congressmen and past and current  Presidents, they get buku bennies and retirement pay after only a FEW YEARS IN OFFICE! Talk about double standards!

Plain and simple there is a food chain within our society, like it or not.

1. President and Congress, they ALWAYS get paid on time and if there is money or not. They are also above the law in that they vote for their own raises, we can do nothing, and come income tax time? The IRS CANNOT AUDIT THEM! Talk about being "protected."  

2. Active duty and veterans, again whether there is money or not, you do NOT piss off your military and veterans, really bad idea for a Republic, and could set the stage for a coup.

3. Civil servants, they get good bennies and pay, but sometimes they have to go without pay for a while, like when Clinton refused to sign a bogus budget the Republicans tried to get passed at the last minute.

4. Govt. Contractors, seems they are doing MUCH better than in normal times thanks to Cheney and "no bid" contracts. These people really do not count as they pretty much rip off the taxpayers half of the time, or in Halliburton's case ALL OF THE TIME.  

5. Last but not least, the civilian citizens that make up the bulk of the revenue for the United States. As a dear female friend of mine (GS-12 special investigator for the IRS) told me, "Ordinary people do not count to the govt. (Unless you are very rich or well connected politically) except for numbers, income they make and what the feds and the states can tax to bring in revenue, and what possible votes politicians can get from them come election time." Sad but true...  

I give you an example from the EAW days when I had a very good friend named John Vaughn (ask the D2 people, they remember him). John had his face disfigured by shrapnel when his Bradley got hit. He was 40 percent when he got out, and eligible for free health care, voc. rehab, etc... Now, even with reconstructive surgery, you can still tell he had a bad injury, so even if he stayed and did 20 and retired, then went voc. rehab, is he not entitled to disability as well? You are an intelligent person Dash, and I have experience with the civvie market, it's the good looking or "normal" looking people that get the jobs, even if their qualifications are slightly under par compared to another person who is very qualified but homely.

Civilians have insurance policies to cover their injuries from their work, for life if need be, in the military we do not have that, instead we have disability compensation, and the VA health care network.  

[Kmelew]

Quote:
1. President and Congress, they ALWAYS get paid on time and if there is money or not. They are also above the law in that they vote for their own raises, we can do nothing, and come income tax time? The IRS CANNOT AUDIT THEM! Talk about being "protected."    

For Congress that has changed a little:

 Amendment XXVII

Congress can vote itself raises, but they don't take effect until the following Congress.  In other words it's possible that those who voted themselves a higher raise might find themselves out of a job when the next Congress sits.

IIRC this amendment was proposed along with the Bill of Rights, but was only ratified in 1992!    

[JMM]

Thanks for the info K! I keep thinking though, what Congress would shut out the past Congress and the pay raise they wanted when THEIR future pay raise is dependent on a FUTURE CONGRESS?   The good ole boy network is alive and well, even with new laws?  

[Kmelew]

You could say to your Congressman, "Congressman I understand you voted yourself a raise.  Well you did a lousy job representing me so I am voting against you and you won't get that raise!"

Quite frankly, though, a Congressman voting  against a pay raise is in a win-win situation (assuming he or she is re-elected to the next Congress).  The Congressman can tell his or her constituents that he or she didn't vote himself/herself a raise out of fiscal responsibility or what have you.  But he or she still gets the raise anyway if it passes.

A better law would be any Representative or Senator who votes against a Congressional pay raise which eventually passes, does not get that raise.

Let them put their money where their mouths are!

Back to your original thread already in progress...  

[JMM]

Joker, request a copy as Storm said, but unless you can prove you did not have a proper ETS physical, and if you are not GW veteran status, you have only one year from ETS to file a claim with VA. After that it would pretty much take an act of God for VA to accept you. Ever since the early 90's it has been MANDATORY during outprocessing to fill out VA paperwork and get registered. It's not that GW vets are special either, our timeframe window remains open because of things we are not privy to know, and we also have vets coming back from there. The Nam vets also have an open timeframe window in regards to Agent Orange.

I'll never forget my Puerto Rican 1SG, he had a DWI while in the army too, and had his bout with depression and divorce. He was with me during the VA part, and he told me "Put down on the paper where you were at Walter Reed for depression, and put down the other medical stuff from Belvoir and Hood." I wrote down everything, even though I thought it was crazy and VA would not accept it, 6 months after my VA Desert Storm clinic physical and psych eval, I was 10 percent service connected! I still would be on 10% because I did not file a claim after each new "incident" or hospitalization, it was a hardcharging VA rep at a hospital who saw my med history and saw GW vet upon my admission to Waco one day in 2002 and he went to regional (right down the road) and told the raters "We got someone who should have been way higher years ago, I do not think he is faking as he NEVER applied for increases before in 7 years of med problems." My increase got granted ASAP. God bless that man, for he is retired now...

 

[Stormbringer]

Another thing people do not realise is the nature of military pay. Base pay is all that is used to compute retirement. Not medical, dental, clothing utility or housing allowances. A person could not live on what the military pays as base pay.  Yet when they retire, often unable to work, all these other things are stripped out. or worse subtracted from the pension. a civilian job usually has more durable benifits. If they did not do something a lot less would stay in beyond the first enlistment. then you really would have to have a draft. when politicians speak of increasing pay for soldiers it is often added to the items that do not compute into retirement pay. I've seen ex-!SGs working in walmart as stock boys to make ends meet. E-8- the 2nd highest enlisted paygrade in the Army.

[Capt. Mike]

Hey, Storm, you still have tri-care, 'tho if you don't pay for Prime, you have to pay the co-pay, unless a military hospital near you has the staff to take care of retirees...fortunately, Offutt does...my wife is on enough medication that in the real world, it would be over $200 a month...but with the base, I only have to pay $3.00 for a prescription we can't get on base.

The $12 co-pay isn't bad (my wife prefers her own gynocologist (sp?) rather than what the base has available..but I don't care who I see for my yearly physical..so it's free.

Dental has always sucked for dependants (unless overseas), and sucks for retirees..they will see a retiree only in an emergency.

And there is still the commisary and BX/PX (and the Class VI for adult beverages)...but after retirement, you gotta be marketable, so you're doing a good thing learning a new skill..I was fortunate to have one many people need.  Now if I could just win the lottery  

Mike
 

[Stormbringer]

I know. But we were promised free care. For nearly a hundred years. Then Oh it's not in writing let's screw the servicemen. Then when the backlash was trememdous and elections were in jeapardy, oh we were just kidding you missunderstood us. heh heh.  then this; token payment system if you want to wait for it.  And the dental you do pay a lot for and it's pathetic.

[Stormbringer]

60 percent disability. I was expecting about 20 percent. With the hypocritical concurrent reciept prohibition repealed, this amounts to about 814 dollars tax free and 1100 SSA pension (eventually). plus the army pension $1500.  So it looks like without my voc job I will be getting about 3400 per month. The doctors said the only reason I was not down for the count is i'm so cussedly onry.  

The electrician aptitude test came back  a seven. Pretty good for being totally unaware of what was to be tested. So I will be going for an interview in july. Then I will move to get a house closer to school in OKC. Just stopping in to update a few friends.  

[Sirgod]

Fantastic Jerry. Dang this Last week has Made alot of things Come Full Circle for you Bro.

Stephen

[The_Joker]

This is off subject, but not.  I never had a proper ETS physical, and I'd like to get my records reviewed.  I had recurring problems with my knees while in the service, and it keeps getting worse, do you know what I need to do?  

[Stormbringer]

Do you have a copy of your records? If not you need to request a copy. the VA office can tell you the contact info. They can also tell you whether you need thier exams or to go to other doctors for documentation. Call the VA at 800-827-1000 and ask to talk to a rep when you get through thier automated system. once you have your records it could take some time to get it processed since so much time has elapsed. You were supposed to do this when you got out. It would have taken 90 days or less. Jack may know more about it and have better info than me. I'm not used to VA procedures yet. This is stuff I recall from various briefings I went through.

[Stormbringer]

I will have to petition the SSA for pay and they can sometimes be a bear on it. I should not have anytrouble but there is always tales of people needing a lawyer to get thier benifits started. So I'm not sure when that will kick in. But the VA disability will kick in in august.  

[JMM]

Remember what I said Jerry, get it in black and white first, it's called an award letter. Jerry is getting confirmation today as he was too excited on the phone yesterday.  

60 percent definitely opens up many more doors than 10 to 50 percent does.  

[Dash Jones]

How can you apply for disability AND be retired?  It seems rather...opposite...letting someone who is crippled work?

Talk me through the process...you worked for the military, did your 20, retired...and then you get disability!?  Why?

[Stormbringer]

Because the accumulated damage and injuries to my body amount to a 60 percent decrease in physical ability.  ! started out completely free of defect and in service to my country, some of it in combat, I sacrificed my health. The government recognizing the nature of military service, and the people grateful for those that do have enacted laws over time that say we will be compensated for disability incurred while in service. I was able to go twenty years by will and by luck. Had things happened differently I would be medically retired and my compensation would be 100 percent pay and 100% tax free. I chose to serve twenty. I could have requested a medical board. Or I could have been forced out by medical board had things happened different.

At the end of service a soldier is examined and medical records reviewed to determine how much he or she is disabled. For example; I have been crushed by falling trailers, hit by vehicles, shot, worn out shoulders, thoracic outlet syndrome, GERD, Hypertension, sciatia, Destroyed right hip joint, scar tissue in quadriceps that cuts off blood flow to my leg and irritates the bursa and the sciatic branch nerve causing generalized inflamation and phantom pain, my knee is destroyed, and I have chronic depression. Essentially my entire right side of my body is greatly weakened and painful.There are times where I am completely incapacitated by nerve pain.  The govt determined 60 percent disability. They assume I cannot do quite a few things and will have a hard time working as a result.  

EDIT:  But I was able to work around my problems. Motrin, other medicines and such kept it under control most of the time. Selective leaves and passes. Gutting out pain when those other things were impossible. There have been times when I worked with my head locked against my shoulder by continuous muscle spasms and times when going up a fight of stairs took ten minutes. The most debilitating injuries took place when I was not in a line unit nad thus could work around it. If it occured when I was deployed or in a hardship tour I would have been medically chaptered out and not retired.

[JMM]

Here you go Dash,

http://www.azlegion.org/Retiredisablity.htm

We put our arses on the line so that many other could stay behind and party or whatever and enjoy their freedom, security, jobs, family life and their personal lives. President Lincoln realized this so ever since then citizen Americans have to fork up some of their pennies and contribute.

I recently got in touch with an army buddy of mine who was Col. Nash's driver in 3rd AD. He is 60 percent VA disabled ($800 plus a month) , gets Social Security Disability ($1800 a month as he worked for 35 years), and is currently on medical leave as a federal police officer at Eglin Air Force base (GS-6 rate minimum). Not too bad at all! My Social Security disability payments are over 800 (I have not worked 35 years) and I'm on 100 percent  ($2366 a month) from VA! Even after my medical review in Aug, if they drop me to 70 percent (Which authorizes me to work again) I still get $1100 a month plus AND I can work (Thus earning MORE MONEY) and go to school and collect my Army College Fund ($1200 a month for the semester).  

While all these bennies may seem like it goes out to everyone, it does NOT. Only 35 percent of veterans are in the 10-30 percent disability compensation range, and only 8 percent of veterans are in my category, which is 100 percent. By veterans I mean ALL American military veterans, whether they register with VA or not. VA's budget is a little over 60 billion a year, believe me, it is chump change, while "our hero" Bush has spent TWICE that amount in Iraq with no tangible results and plans on spending billions more if reelected. The majority of VA money goes NOT into veterans compensation, but into health care (They have clinics and hospitals all over the nation), the domicillaries, and then there is the civvie tabs they pick up like when I was in the E.R. in April. They also employ many civil service workers that have to be paid.

You also have to realize that soldiers are still way underpaid unless you are an officer or senior NCO, a private with a family will probably be applying for food stamps and other help from state agencies. I've seen it before, it's no joke.

Here is a list of ALL they do with that 60 billion dollars, if only other agencies were so efficient:

http://www.va.gov/

We could have saved a lot of money budget wise with the largest group (WW2 veterans) dying off, but believe me, there will be a BUNCH of screwed up vets getting out of the service when Iraq and Afghanistan and God knows where else we go have come and gone, so I imagine we will see an increase in disability compensation, as well as concurrent retirement and disability because they put a "stop-loss" on the military and some of the guys and gals over there are serving in combat areas and should have been retired by now.

Last but not least, many states provide bennies as well, look at what Texas gives!

http://www.tvc.state.tx.us/

Land, free 4 years at ANY Texas public university, disabled veteran license plates (I can park anywhere and NOT have to pay the meter), FREE medical records and much more!

I end my rant raising my middle finger at the administration and at Halliburton! I'm getting the last laugh, not them...  



   

[Stormbringer]

Thats 817 there plus 1490 for pension. I get that letter and I'll be checking for the SSA 1100. BTW Dash, we pay SSA taxes. we are supposed to be able to get it out if and when needed but they often fight tooth and nail not to pay. I paid it. I'm getting it.

And then I'm going to apprentice as an electrician as VOC rehab and get 50K of my GI bill back in pocket. get an apprentice salary starting at 2500 and end up making almost 6K per month. within 5 years that will be 8K.

Well thats the plan anyway. Any number of things could still go wrong. Starting with SSA. Thats the least of my worries. The next thing is not being accepted into the apreticeship program or getting on the list and not being called up. This would eliminate pocketing the 50K GI bill windfall, the 2500 apprentice salary. [by agreement people in government approved vocational apprenticeship programs can draw GI bill even ifthe training is paid for by the training provider]

In the event that happens, I can use the GI bill as originally intended to pay for the VOC school or request the VA pays for it. [which risks losing diasabled status and the pay that comes with it] [probably won't do that]

[Dash Jones]

Thanks for the replies...it just seems...well...rather...hmm...I don't know how to put it delicately.  I can see someone getting Retirement pay, I can see someone get disability pay...BUT BOTH!?

It would seem that Police/officers of the law, in riding the streets probably see more and risk more every day, and have more everyday pressures than someone in the military, at least unless the military is at war.  Difference, the Policeman does it for 40 years, whilst the military man can retire by...hmmm...let's see...38 to 40 after 20 years of service.  I'd say order and safety in the US was directly due to the efforts and work of the Police force of the US.  I'd also say that over a third of the US probably hates the Police at some time or other (pulled over for a speeding ticket, DUI, etc.) and that the officers face combat of a more personal nature on at least a monthly basis.  However, when the military does it, it's called policing action, the Police...what they are expected to do for the rest of their lives (imagine the military in Iraq for the next 40, and those complaining, expected to serve there that entire time...).

In that regard, shouldn't they get BOTH disability AND retirement?

However, if we did that, we'd have to spread it to the fire fighters...I'd say they serve to protect the cities and forests of the nation on almost a daily basis...and fighting a fire I would say is definately dangerous...and deadly.  They also serve for 40 years or more...in fact, some of them do it for free...

Shouldn't they get BOTH disability AND retirement?

Now in that regard, what about teachers?  Teachers?  you ask.  If I recall, there are some that serve in some pretty bad inner city areas...areas that even normal military probably would be forbidden to go if they wanted to go on their free time (or if not, then there are some pretty stupid military people out there).  Not only that, but even the military has it's teachers.  What would you call those who teach drill, or teach in a tech school...

And if an accident happened on the job at that tech school (lets say they got hit by a car whilst going on an errand)...

That teacher in the military if they continue to teach and bear it out, would get retirement AND disability...

But if it happened on a normal campus...the teacher their would not?

I don't want to put down the men of the US military...I think those in each nation should be grateful to those who risk their lives for them...

I just see it rather ironic...

What exactly qualifies someone from the military who served 20 years to get disability and retirement vs. those above?

What puzzles me even more, is if someone is put at 60% disability, besides the fact that they are obviously 20 years older then when they went in...if someone were at any other job at 60% disability, typically they wouldn't be able to effectively perform their job (being at 40% of the ability to perform a job, that's less than accomplishing 50% of the job)...if they really were at 60% disability.

Hence, perhaps my confusion.  How can someone who really IS at 60% disability truly do a job at 100%, since to do so, theoretically speaking, they'd have to be at 100% of ability performance, otherwise their ability to perform at the job would be at 60% (yes, I'm number crunching...something the world outside the military does when evaluating profits, work etc....sorry, just something in relation), and disability SHOULD then be forced on them.

In the case of perhaps being forced out by a medical board, if someone qualifies at 60% after they retire, why isn't there an inquiry into why that person wasn't retired at 60% disability?

And finally, what sets the military personel (who may spend 4 to 8 years in a combat zone...but more likely less then a year in combat, and the rest either drilling or at a desk job, or behind the lines) apart from other such as a policeman (who spends around 20 years in the combat zone/actual law enforcement, and to be on the liberal side, maybe another 20 behind a desk, or otherwise) who risk their lives all the time and do just as much if not more in the preservation of the US?  (AS I would have thought the US would have known from events in 2001).

Not meaning to inflame, just curious, because it's not making a whole lot of sense to me.

[Stormbringer]

Yes they should; but the problem is they are paid by the city and state not the federal govt. See the problem is that troops did not get concurrent reciept but often could not work upon leaving the service while government officials saw too it that they got concurrent reciept. So a senator who sits on his butt could get the senate pension other pensions and if he is lucky a presidential pension all for hundred of thousands of dollars. In the mean time they would not let a soldier with his leg blown off fighting forthe country recieve a paltry few hundred dollars and a paltry 1400 retirement because it costs too much money. They said this while raking in millions them,selves. Well lobby groups decided to threaten to publicise this if they did not pony up. So rather than risk thier filthy lucre they finally did the honorable thing regarding soldiers. But they had to be forced all the time talking out the sides of thier face about how they worked for the veterans, cared forthem, did thier best forthem and so forth and and so forth. This is at the same time some of them tried to take away our medical benifits.


And as I said my final years in the service were at the training department. Bascically desk bound creating multimedia packages for various schools. I also taught certain technical subjects concerning Radar operations. So the physical requirements are not as demanding as pulling a 400 pound genrator cable through the undergrowth and emplacing three major components in 9 minutes or less. I created 13R training manuals, lesson plans, slide and film packets, training and job aids. I also did this for our warrant officers. I performed critical job and task analysis for the various skill levels and created skill level three and four training programs for Ancoc and BNCOC. I analysed the next generation of equipment and created manuals for them. I was responsible for the training of approximately 5000 soldiers. I instructed several hundred directly. I briefed the training budget requirements and resource requirements for annual training cycles. I repaired equipment worth millions of dollars. My work speaks for itself. Pray that when you are my age you can claim similar things in twenty years. These were just the last three years of my service.

[JMM]

Dash,

I can understand your points, but like Storm said, we are FEDERAL, not city or state. In the days of old (it changed in the late 80's. early 90's) we could retire after 20 years and then enter civil service and serve 20 and get TWO retirements, not any more, even though federal jobs and some states like Texas have laws giving veterans hiring preferences for jobs! Veterans are more than welcome to enter the civilian market and try for 20 or more and get another retirement package in addition to their military retirement, but not anymore with the federal government. Yet look at your Congressmen and past and current  Presidents, they get buku bennies and retirement pay after only a FEW YEARS IN OFFICE! Talk about double standards!

Plain and simple there is a food chain within our society, like it or not.

1. President and Congress, they ALWAYS get paid on time and if there is money or not. They are also above the law in that they vote for their own raises, we can do nothing, and come income tax time? The IRS CANNOT AUDIT THEM! Talk about being "protected."  

2. Active duty and veterans, again whether there is money or not, you do NOT piss off your military and veterans, really bad idea for a Republic, and could set the stage for a coup.

3. Civil servants, they get good bennies and pay, but sometimes they have to go without pay for a while, like when Clinton refused to sign a bogus budget the Republicans tried to get passed at the last minute.

4. Govt. Contractors, seems they are doing MUCH better than in normal times thanks to Cheney and "no bid" contracts. These people really do not count as they pretty much rip off the taxpayers half of the time, or in Halliburton's case ALL OF THE TIME.  

5. Last but not least, the civilian citizens that make up the bulk of the revenue for the United States. As a dear female friend of mine (GS-12 special investigator for the IRS) told me, "Ordinary people do not count to the govt. (Unless you are very rich or well connected politically) except for numbers, income they make and what the feds and the states can tax to bring in revenue, and what possible votes politicians can get from them come election time." Sad but true...  

I give you an example from the EAW days when I had a very good friend named John Vaughn (ask the D2 people, they remember him). John had his face disfigured by shrapnel when his Bradley got hit. He was 40 percent when he got out, and eligible for free health care, voc. rehab, etc... Now, even with reconstructive surgery, you can still tell he had a bad injury, so even if he stayed and did 20 and retired, then went voc. rehab, is he not entitled to disability as well? You are an intelligent person Dash, and I have experience with the civvie market, it's the good looking or "normal" looking people that get the jobs, even if their qualifications are slightly under par compared to another person who is very qualified but homely.

Civilians have insurance policies to cover their injuries from their work, for life if need be, in the military we do not have that, instead we have disability compensation, and the VA health care network.  

[Kmelew]

Quote:
1. President and Congress, they ALWAYS get paid on time and if there is money or not. They are also above the law in that they vote for their own raises, we can do nothing, and come income tax time? The IRS CANNOT AUDIT THEM! Talk about being "protected."    

For Congress that has changed a little:

 Amendment XXVII

Congress can vote itself raises, but they don't take effect until the following Congress.  In other words it's possible that those who voted themselves a higher raise might find themselves out of a job when the next Congress sits.

IIRC this amendment was proposed along with the Bill of Rights, but was only ratified in 1992!    

[JMM]

Thanks for the info K! I keep thinking though, what Congress would shut out the past Congress and the pay raise they wanted when THEIR future pay raise is dependent on a FUTURE CONGRESS?   The good ole boy network is alive and well, even with new laws?  

[Kmelew]

You could say to your Congressman, "Congressman I understand you voted yourself a raise.  Well you did a lousy job representing me so I am voting against you and you won't get that raise!"

Quite frankly, though, a Congressman voting  against a pay raise is in a win-win situation (assuming he or she is re-elected to the next Congress).  The Congressman can tell his or her constituents that he or she didn't vote himself/herself a raise out of fiscal responsibility or what have you.  But he or she still gets the raise anyway if it passes.

A better law would be any Representative or Senator who votes against a Congressional pay raise which eventually passes, does not get that raise.

Let them put their money where their mouths are!

Back to your original thread already in progress...  

[JMM]

Joker, request a copy as Storm said, but unless you can prove you did not have a proper ETS physical, and if you are not GW veteran status, you have only one year from ETS to file a claim with VA. After that it would pretty much take an act of God for VA to accept you. Ever since the early 90's it has been MANDATORY during outprocessing to fill out VA paperwork and get registered. It's not that GW vets are special either, our timeframe window remains open because of things we are not privy to know, and we also have vets coming back from there. The Nam vets also have an open timeframe window in regards to Agent Orange.

I'll never forget my Puerto Rican 1SG, he had a DWI while in the army too, and had his bout with depression and divorce. He was with me during the VA part, and he told me "Put down on the paper where you were at Walter Reed for depression, and put down the other medical stuff from Belvoir and Hood." I wrote down everything, even though I thought it was crazy and VA would not accept it, 6 months after my VA Desert Storm clinic physical and psych eval, I was 10 percent service connected! I still would be on 10% because I did not file a claim after each new "incident" or hospitalization, it was a hardcharging VA rep at a hospital who saw my med history and saw GW vet upon my admission to Waco one day in 2002 and he went to regional (right down the road) and told the raters "We got someone who should have been way higher years ago, I do not think he is faking as he NEVER applied for increases before in 7 years of med problems." My increase got granted ASAP. God bless that man, for he is retired now...

 

[Stormbringer]

Another thing people do not realise is the nature of military pay. Base pay is all that is used to compute retirement. Not medical, dental, clothing utility or housing allowances. A person could not live on what the military pays as base pay.  Yet when they retire, often unable to work, all these other things are stripped out. or worse subtracted from the pension. a civilian job usually has more durable benifits. If they did not do something a lot less would stay in beyond the first enlistment. then you really would have to have a draft. when politicians speak of increasing pay for soldiers it is often added to the items that do not compute into retirement pay. I've seen ex-!SGs working in walmart as stock boys to make ends meet. E-8- the 2nd highest enlisted paygrade in the Army.

[Capt. Mike]

Hey, Storm, you still have tri-care, 'tho if you don't pay for Prime, you have to pay the co-pay, unless a military hospital near you has the staff to take care of retirees...fortunately, Offutt does...my wife is on enough medication that in the real world, it would be over $200 a month...but with the base, I only have to pay $3.00 for a prescription we can't get on base.

The $12 co-pay isn't bad (my wife prefers her own gynocologist (sp?) rather than what the base has available..but I don't care who I see for my yearly physical..so it's free.

Dental has always sucked for dependants (unless overseas), and sucks for retirees..they will see a retiree only in an emergency.

And there is still the commisary and BX/PX (and the Class VI for adult beverages)...but after retirement, you gotta be marketable, so you're doing a good thing learning a new skill..I was fortunate to have one many people need.  Now if I could just win the lottery  

Mike
 

[Stormbringer]

I know. But we were promised free care. For nearly a hundred years. Then Oh it's not in writing let's screw the servicemen. Then when the backlash was trememdous and elections were in jeapardy, oh we were just kidding you missunderstood us. heh heh.  then this; token payment system if you want to wait for it.  And the dental you do pay a lot for and it's pathetic.

[Stormbringer]

60 percent disability. I was expecting about 20 percent. With the hypocritical concurrent reciept prohibition repealed, this amounts to about 814 dollars tax free and 1100 SSA pension (eventually). plus the army pension $1500.  So it looks like without my voc job I will be getting about 3400 per month. The doctors said the only reason I was not down for the count is i'm so cussedly onry.  

The electrician aptitude test came back  a seven. Pretty good for being totally unaware of what was to be tested. So I will be going for an interview in july. Then I will move to get a house closer to school in OKC. Just stopping in to update a few friends.  

[Sirgod]

Fantastic Jerry. Dang this Last week has Made alot of things Come Full Circle for you Bro.

Stephen

[The_Joker]

This is off subject, but not.  I never had a proper ETS physical, and I'd like to get my records reviewed.  I had recurring problems with my knees while in the service, and it keeps getting worse, do you know what I need to do?  

[Stormbringer]

Do you have a copy of your records? If not you need to request a copy. the VA office can tell you the contact info. They can also tell you whether you need thier exams or to go to other doctors for documentation. Call the VA at 800-827-1000 and ask to talk to a rep when you get through thier automated system. once you have your records it could take some time to get it processed since so much time has elapsed. You were supposed to do this when you got out. It would have taken 90 days or less. Jack may know more about it and have better info than me. I'm not used to VA procedures yet. This is stuff I recall from various briefings I went through.

[Stormbringer]

I will have to petition the SSA for pay and they can sometimes be a bear on it. I should not have anytrouble but there is always tales of people needing a lawyer to get thier benifits started. So I'm not sure when that will kick in. But the VA disability will kick in in august.  

[JMM]

Remember what I said Jerry, get it in black and white first, it's called an award letter. Jerry is getting confirmation today as he was too excited on the phone yesterday.  

60 percent definitely opens up many more doors than 10 to 50 percent does.  

[Dash Jones]

How can you apply for disability AND be retired?  It seems rather...opposite...letting someone who is crippled work?

Talk me through the process...you worked for the military, did your 20, retired...and then you get disability!?  Why?

[Stormbringer]

Because the accumulated damage and injuries to my body amount to a 60 percent decrease in physical ability.  ! started out completely free of defect and in service to my country, some of it in combat, I sacrificed my health. The government recognizing the nature of military service, and the people grateful for those that do have enacted laws over time that say we will be compensated for disability incurred while in service. I was able to go twenty years by will and by luck. Had things happened differently I would be medically retired and my compensation would be 100 percent pay and 100% tax free. I chose to serve twenty. I could have requested a medical board. Or I could have been forced out by medical board had things happened different.

At the end of service a soldier is examined and medical records reviewed to determine how much he or she is disabled. For example; I have been crushed by falling trailers, hit by vehicles, shot, worn out shoulders, thoracic outlet syndrome, GERD, Hypertension, sciatia, Destroyed right hip joint, scar tissue in quadriceps that cuts off blood flow to my leg and irritates the bursa and the sciatic branch nerve causing generalized inflamation and phantom pain, my knee is destroyed, and I have chronic depression. Essentially my entire right side of my body is greatly weakened and painful.There are times where I am completely incapacitated by nerve pain.  The govt determined 60 percent disability. They assume I cannot do quite a few things and will have a hard time working as a result.  

EDIT:  But I was able to work around my problems. Motrin, other medicines and such kept it under control most of the time. Selective leaves and passes. Gutting out pain when those other things were impossible. There have been times when I worked with my head locked against my shoulder by continuous muscle spasms and times when going up a fight of stairs took ten minutes. The most debilitating injuries took place when I was not in a line unit nad thus could work around it. If it occured when I was deployed or in a hardship tour I would have been medically chaptered out and not retired.

[JMM]

Here you go Dash,

http://www.azlegion.org/Retiredisablity.htm

We put our arses on the line so that many other could stay behind and party or whatever and enjoy their freedom, security, jobs, family life and their personal lives. President Lincoln realized this so ever since then citizen Americans have to fork up some of their pennies and contribute.

I recently got in touch with an army buddy of mine who was Col. Nash's driver in 3rd AD. He is 60 percent VA disabled ($800 plus a month) , gets Social Security Disability ($1800 a month as he worked for 35 years), and is currently on medical leave as a federal police officer at Eglin Air Force base (GS-6 rate minimum). Not too bad at all! My Social Security disability payments are over 800 (I have not worked 35 years) and I'm on 100 percent  ($2366 a month) from VA! Even after my medical review in Aug, if they drop me to 70 percent (Which authorizes me to work again) I still get $1100 a month plus AND I can work (Thus earning MORE MONEY) and go to school and collect my Army College Fund ($1200 a month for the semester).  

While all these bennies may seem like it goes out to everyone, it does NOT. Only 35 percent of veterans are in the 10-30 percent disability compensation range, and only 8 percent of veterans are in my category, which is 100 percent. By veterans I mean ALL American military veterans, whether they register with VA or not. VA's budget is a little over 60 billion a year, believe me, it is chump change, while "our hero" Bush has spent TWICE that amount in Iraq with no tangible results and plans on spending billions more if reelected. The majority of VA money goes NOT into veterans compensation, but into health care (They have clinics and hospitals all over the nation), the domicillaries, and then there is the civvie tabs they pick up like when I was in the E.R. in April. They also employ many civil service workers that have to be paid.

You also have to realize that soldiers are still way underpaid unless you are an officer or senior NCO, a private with a family will probably be applying for food stamps and other help from state agencies. I've seen it before, it's no joke.

Here is a list of ALL they do with that 60 billion dollars, if only other agencies were so efficient:

http://www.va.gov/

We could have saved a lot of money budget wise with the largest group (WW2 veterans) dying off, but believe me, there will be a BUNCH of screwed up vets getting out of the service when Iraq and Afghanistan and God knows where else we go have come and gone, so I imagine we will see an increase in disability compensation, as well as concurrent retirement and disability because they put a "stop-loss" on the military and some of the guys and gals over there are serving in combat areas and should have been retired by now.

Last but not least, many states provide bennies as well, look at what Texas gives!

http://www.tvc.state.tx.us/

Land, free 4 years at ANY Texas public university, disabled veteran license plates (I can park anywhere and NOT have to pay the meter), FREE medical records and much more!

I end my rant raising my middle finger at the administration and at Halliburton! I'm getting the last laugh, not them...  



   

[Stormbringer]

Thats 817 there plus 1490 for pension. I get that letter and I'll be checking for the SSA 1100. BTW Dash, we pay SSA taxes. we are supposed to be able to get it out if and when needed but they often fight tooth and nail not to pay. I paid it. I'm getting it.

And then I'm going to apprentice as an electrician as VOC rehab and get 50K of my GI bill back in pocket. get an apprentice salary starting at 2500 and end up making almost 6K per month. within 5 years that will be 8K.

Well thats the plan anyway. Any number of things could still go wrong. Starting with SSA. Thats the least of my worries. The next thing is not being accepted into the apreticeship program or getting on the list and not being called up. This would eliminate pocketing the 50K GI bill windfall, the 2500 apprentice salary. [by agreement people in government approved vocational apprenticeship programs can draw GI bill even ifthe training is paid for by the training provider]

In the event that happens, I can use the GI bill as originally intended to pay for the VOC school or request the VA pays for it. [which risks losing diasabled status and the pay that comes with it] [probably won't do that]

[Dash Jones]

Thanks for the replies...it just seems...well...rather...hmm...I don't know how to put it delicately.  I can see someone getting Retirement pay, I can see someone get disability pay...BUT BOTH!?

It would seem that Police/officers of the law, in riding the streets probably see more and risk more every day, and have more everyday pressures than someone in the military, at least unless the military is at war.  Difference, the Policeman does it for 40 years, whilst the military man can retire by...hmmm...let's see...38 to 40 after 20 years of service.  I'd say order and safety in the US was directly due to the efforts and work of the Police force of the US.  I'd also say that over a third of the US probably hates the Police at some time or other (pulled over for a speeding ticket, DUI, etc.) and that the officers face combat of a more personal nature on at least a monthly basis.  However, when the military does it, it's called policing action, the Police...what they are expected to do for the rest of their lives (imagine the military in Iraq for the next 40, and those complaining, expected to serve there that entire time...).

In that regard, shouldn't they get BOTH disability AND retirement?

However, if we did that, we'd have to spread it to the fire fighters...I'd say they serve to protect the cities and forests of the nation on almost a daily basis...and fighting a fire I would say is definately dangerous...and deadly.  They also serve for 40 years or more...in fact, some of them do it for free...

Shouldn't they get BOTH disability AND retirement?

Now in that regard, what about teachers?  Teachers?  you ask.  If I recall, there are some that serve in some pretty bad inner city areas...areas that even normal military probably would be forbidden to go if they wanted to go on their free time (or if not, then there are some pretty stupid military people out there).  Not only that, but even the military has it's teachers.  What would you call those who teach drill, or teach in a tech school...

And if an accident happened on the job at that tech school (lets say they got hit by a car whilst going on an errand)...

That teacher in the military if they continue to teach and bear it out, would get retirement AND disability...

But if it happened on a normal campus...the teacher their would not?

I don't want to put down the men of the US military...I think those in each nation should be grateful to those who risk their lives for them...

I just see it rather ironic...

What exactly qualifies someone from the military who served 20 years to get disability and retirement vs. those above?

What puzzles me even more, is if someone is put at 60% disability, besides the fact that they are obviously 20 years older then when they went in...if someone were at any other job at 60% disability, typically they wouldn't be able to effectively perform their job (being at 40% of the ability to perform a job, that's less than accomplishing 50% of the job)...if they really were at 60% disability.

Hence, perhaps my confusion.  How can someone who really IS at 60% disability truly do a job at 100%, since to do so, theoretically speaking, they'd have to be at 100% of ability performance, otherwise their ability to perform at the job would be at 60% (yes, I'm number crunching...something the world outside the military does when evaluating profits, work etc....sorry, just something in relation), and disability SHOULD then be forced on them.

In the case of perhaps being forced out by a medical board, if someone qualifies at 60% after they retire, why isn't there an inquiry into why that person wasn't retired at 60% disability?

And finally, what sets the military personel (who may spend 4 to 8 years in a combat zone...but more likely less then a year in combat, and the rest either drilling or at a desk job, or behind the lines) apart from other such as a policeman (who spends around 20 years in the combat zone/actual law enforcement, and to be on the liberal side, maybe another 20 behind a desk, or otherwise) who risk their lives all the time and do just as much if not more in the preservation of the US?  (AS I would have thought the US would have known from events in 2001).

Not meaning to inflame, just curious, because it's not making a whole lot of sense to me.

[Stormbringer]

Yes they should; but the problem is they are paid by the city and state not the federal govt. See the problem is that troops did not get concurrent reciept but often could not work upon leaving the service while government officials saw too it that they got concurrent reciept. So a senator who sits on his butt could get the senate pension other pensions and if he is lucky a presidential pension all for hundred of thousands of dollars. In the mean time they would not let a soldier with his leg blown off fighting forthe country recieve a paltry few hundred dollars and a paltry 1400 retirement because it costs too much money. They said this while raking in millions them,selves. Well lobby groups decided to threaten to publicise this if they did not pony up. So rather than risk thier filthy lucre they finally did the honorable thing regarding soldiers. But they had to be forced all the time talking out the sides of thier face about how they worked for the veterans, cared forthem, did thier best forthem and so forth and and so forth. This is at the same time some of them tried to take away our medical benifits.


And as I said my final years in the service were at the training department. Bascically desk bound creating multimedia packages for various schools. I also taught certain technical subjects concerning Radar operations. So the physical requirements are not as demanding as pulling a 400 pound genrator cable through the undergrowth and emplacing three major components in 9 minutes or less. I created 13R training manuals, lesson plans, slide and film packets, training and job aids. I also did this for our warrant officers. I performed critical job and task analysis for the various skill levels and created skill level three and four training programs for Ancoc and BNCOC. I analysed the next generation of equipment and created manuals for them. I was responsible for the training of approximately 5000 soldiers. I instructed several hundred directly. I briefed the training budget requirements and resource requirements for annual training cycles. I repaired equipment worth millions of dollars. My work speaks for itself. Pray that when you are my age you can claim similar things in twenty years. These were just the last three years of my service.

[JMM]

Dash,

I can understand your points, but like Storm said, we are FEDERAL, not city or state. In the days of old (it changed in the late 80's. early 90's) we could retire after 20 years and then enter civil service and serve 20 and get TWO retirements, not any more, even though federal jobs and some states like Texas have laws giving veterans hiring preferences for jobs! Veterans are more than welcome to enter the civilian market and try for 20 or more and get another retirement package in addition to their military retirement, but not anymore with the federal government. Yet look at your Congressmen and past and current  Presidents, they get buku bennies and retirement pay after only a FEW YEARS IN OFFICE! Talk about double standards!

Plain and simple there is a food chain within our society, like it or not.

1. President and Congress, they ALWAYS get paid on time and if there is money or not. They are also above the law in that they vote for their own raises, we can do nothing, and come income tax time? The IRS CANNOT AUDIT THEM! Talk about being "protected."  

2. Active duty and veterans, again whether there is money or not, you do NOT piss off your military and veterans, really bad idea for a Republic, and could set the stage for a coup.

3. Civil servants, they get good bennies and pay, but sometimes they have to go without pay for a while, like when Clinton refused to sign a bogus budget the Republicans tried to get passed at the last minute.

4. Govt. Contractors, seems they are doing MUCH better than in normal times thanks to Cheney and "no bid" contracts. These people really do not count as they pretty much rip off the taxpayers half of the time, or in Halliburton's case ALL OF THE TIME.  

5. Last but not least, the civilian citizens that make up the bulk of the revenue for the United States. As a dear female friend of mine (GS-12 special investigator for the IRS) told me, "Ordinary people do not count to the govt. (Unless you are very rich or well connected politically) except for numbers, income they make and what the feds and the states can tax to bring in revenue, and what possible votes politicians can get from them come election time." Sad but true...  

I give you an example from the EAW days when I had a very good friend named John Vaughn (ask the D2 people, they remember him). John had his face disfigured by shrapnel when his Bradley got hit. He was 40 percent when he got out, and eligible for free health care, voc. rehab, etc... Now, even with reconstructive surgery, you can still tell he had a bad injury, so even if he stayed and did 20 and retired, then went voc. rehab, is he not entitled to disability as well? You are an intelligent person Dash, and I have experience with the civvie market, it's the good looking or "normal" looking people that get the jobs, even if their qualifications are slightly under par compared to another person who is very qualified but homely.

Civilians have insurance policies to cover their injuries from their work, for life if need be, in the military we do not have that, instead we have disability compensation, and the VA health care network.  

[Kmelew]

Quote:
1. President and Congress, they ALWAYS get paid on time and if there is money or not. They are also above the law in that they vote for their own raises, we can do nothing, and come income tax time? The IRS CANNOT AUDIT THEM! Talk about being "protected."    

For Congress that has changed a little:

 Amendment XXVII

Congress can vote itself raises, but they don't take effect until the following Congress.  In other words it's possible that those who voted themselves a higher raise might find themselves out of a job when the next Congress sits.

IIRC this amendment was proposed along with the Bill of Rights, but was only ratified in 1992!    

[JMM]

Thanks for the info K! I keep thinking though, what Congress would shut out the past Congress and the pay raise they wanted when THEIR future pay raise is dependent on a FUTURE CONGRESS?   The good ole boy network is alive and well, even with new laws?  

[Kmelew]

You could say to your Congressman, "Congressman I understand you voted yourself a raise.  Well you did a lousy job representing me so I am voting against you and you won't get that raise!"

Quite frankly, though, a Congressman voting  against a pay raise is in a win-win situation (assuming he or she is re-elected to the next Congress).  The Congressman can tell his or her constituents that he or she didn't vote himself/herself a raise out of fiscal responsibility or what have you.  But he or she still gets the raise anyway if it passes.

A better law would be any Representative or Senator who votes against a Congressional pay raise which eventually passes, does not get that raise.

Let them put their money where their mouths are!

Back to your original thread already in progress...  

[JMM]

Joker, request a copy as Storm said, but unless you can prove you did not have a proper ETS physical, and if you are not GW veteran status, you have only one year from ETS to file a claim with VA. After that it would pretty much take an act of God for VA to accept you. Ever since the early 90's it has been MANDATORY during outprocessing to fill out VA paperwork and get registered. It's not that GW vets are special either, our timeframe window remains open because of things we are not privy to know, and we also have vets coming back from there. The Nam vets also have an open timeframe window in regards to Agent Orange.

I'll never forget my Puerto Rican 1SG, he had a DWI while in the army too, and had his bout with depression and divorce. He was with me during the VA part, and he told me "Put down on the paper where you were at Walter Reed for depression, and put down the other medical stuff from Belvoir and Hood." I wrote down everything, even though I thought it was crazy and VA would not accept it, 6 months after my VA Desert Storm clinic physical and psych eval, I was 10 percent service connected! I still would be on 10% because I did not file a claim after each new "incident" or hospitalization, it was a hardcharging VA rep at a hospital who saw my med history and saw GW vet upon my admission to Waco one day in 2002 and he went to regional (right down the road) and told the raters "We got someone who should have been way higher years ago, I do not think he is faking as he NEVER applied for increases before in 7 years of med problems." My increase got granted ASAP. God bless that man, for he is retired now...

 

[Stormbringer]

Another thing people do not realise is the nature of military pay. Base pay is all that is used to compute retirement. Not medical, dental, clothing utility or housing allowances. A person could not live on what the military pays as base pay.  Yet when they retire, often unable to work, all these other things are stripped out. or worse subtracted from the pension. a civilian job usually has more durable benifits. If they did not do something a lot less would stay in beyond the first enlistment. then you really would have to have a draft. when politicians speak of increasing pay for soldiers it is often added to the items that do not compute into retirement pay. I've seen ex-!SGs working in walmart as stock boys to make ends meet. E-8- the 2nd highest enlisted paygrade in the Army.

[Capt. Mike]

Hey, Storm, you still have tri-care, 'tho if you don't pay for Prime, you have to pay the co-pay, unless a military hospital near you has the staff to take care of retirees...fortunately, Offutt does...my wife is on enough medication that in the real world, it would be over $200 a month...but with the base, I only have to pay $3.00 for a prescription we can't get on base.

The $12 co-pay isn't bad (my wife prefers her own gynocologist (sp?) rather than what the base has available..but I don't care who I see for my yearly physical..so it's free.

Dental has always sucked for dependants (unless overseas), and sucks for retirees..they will see a retiree only in an emergency.

And there is still the commisary and BX/PX (and the Class VI for adult beverages)...but after retirement, you gotta be marketable, so you're doing a good thing learning a new skill..I was fortunate to have one many people need.  Now if I could just win the lottery  

Mike
 

[Stormbringer]

I know. But we were promised free care. For nearly a hundred years. Then Oh it's not in writing let's screw the servicemen. Then when the backlash was trememdous and elections were in jeapardy, oh we were just kidding you missunderstood us. heh heh.  then this; token payment system if you want to wait for it.  And the dental you do pay a lot for and it's pathetic.