Topic: Zepplins. They're Back

[J. Carney]

I'd also be interested in travel by zep, though there are a few bad points- like not being able to fly above the weather like in a plane. But I also think that that can be mostly avoided now thanks to the better weather forcasting abilities that we have now. It would be cool to go the slow way for a change... kinda like taking the train, which I also like to do when the opportunity presents itself.

[Elvis]

How would a Zepplin fare in a place such as the Grand Canyon for tours and such. I've always thought that it would be an ideal place for the use of them.  

[JMM]

You know Elvis, good idea! Here in Chihuahua they have the Copper Canyon, much bigger than our Grand Canyon, they usually tour by train. I wonder how much a new modern Zep would run? Can't be too hard to fly the darn things, El Paso to Copper Canyon would be a cool route, or Chihuahua City to Copper Canyon, it would also increase tourism in Chihuahua City.  

[Kmelew]

The technology needed to build a fly a rigid airship no longer exists--it would have to be done from scratch and I'm afraid development costs would be very high

A helium-filled rigid airship is essentially a low altitude vehicle, with a pressure height of less than 10,000 feet.  "Pressure Height" is how high an airship could go up before the gas cells burst.  Rigid airships had automatic valves to vent helium when the ship approached its pressure height.

The Navy had some good experience with sailing rigid airships over a continental land mass.  They usually didn't fare too well.  The airships usually had to undergo some serious refits following a transcontinental flight.  And since the pressure height was relatively low, this limited the routes the airships could take through the Rockies.  Jack you might be interested to know that the Navy's rigids usually flew from Lakehurst to San Diego via El Paso.

Rigid airships are more suited flying over oceans than land masses.  And I hope one day that I would be able to travel on one!

For anyone interested in Navy LTA, check out  Sky Ships:  A History of the Airship in the United States Navy    

[Dracho]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/06/14/germany.zeppelin.ap/index.html

FRIEDRICHSHAFEN, Germany (AP) -- Makers of the revived Zeppelin airship delivered their first helium-filled craft to a commercial user Saturday, a Japanese company that plans to use the 12-seat craft for sightseeing trips and advertising.

The granddaughter of the original airship's inventor, Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin, was on hand as Japan's Nippon Airship Corporation took delivery of the 247-foot ship, destined for sightseeing and advertising flights in Japan and a starring role at the 2005 world's fair in the city of Aichi.

The new craft designed by Germany's Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik -- named Zeppelin NT for "New Technology" -- is filled with helium rather than the intensely flammable hydrogen that fueled the earlier generation of airships.

"This is an important day in the history of Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik -- the very first time that a Zeppelin NT has been sold," Zeppelin manager Bernd Straeter said as some 1,500 people gathered for Saturday's ceremony at the company's huge airship hangar in Friedrichshafen, on the shores of Lake Constance in southern Germany.

The original era of the zeppelin ended when the Hindenburg caught fire on landing at Lakehurst, New Jersey in 1937 -- killing 35 of the 96 people on board and dashing the dream of the airship as a means of transportation.

Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik started building the new dirigibles, which are about one-third the length of the Hindenburg, in 1996, but the sale to the Nippon Airship Corporation -- sealed in March -- was its first commercial deal.

Straeter said Saturday the sale price was "under euro 9 million ($10.8 million)," but did not elaborate.

On Sunday, the cigar-shaped craft with "Germany in Japan" painted in large black letters on its side is to take off on its journey to Japan, where it should arrive by mid-August.

There's room for 12 passengers and two crew members in the new ship's gondola, but it won't be taking passengers as it zigzags across Europe and on to Asia.

Three pilots and three technicians for the airship's new owner were given a three-month course of intensive training in Germany to prepare for the voyage.

Planned stops include Geneva, Paris, the Dutch port of Rotterdam, Munich, Berlin and Stockholm, where it will stop in mid-July before heading to Russia.

Currently named "Bodensee" -- the German word for Lake Constance -- the ship eventually will be re-christened by its new owners, but the new name has yet to be chosen.

"This calm way of flying will suit Japan well," said Zeppelin's granddaughter, Elisabeth Veil.

Since 2001, the German company has been offering tours of Lake Constance, which straddles the Swiss-German border, with the three airships in its fleet.

The company is now developing a larger, 19-seater craft, Straeter said. He did not say when the bigger craft might be ready.


 

[Kmelew]

Give me the  U.S.S. Akron and  U.S.S. Macon any day

After 70 years still the largest flying craft ever built in the US!

They were unique in the history of LTA in that they were "flying aircraft carriers."  Each airship was capable of carrying five biplanes  inside the hull, launching them and retrieving them by means of a trapeze-like device.  

[Tremok]

Very nice, if it's actually a true Zeppelin and not another over inflated balloon. Always did fancy the flying ships.  

[J. Carney]

You are forgetting the U.S.S. Los Angeles, which was the testbed for the launch system that the Achron and Macon used. She was a German zep built as compensation for ships lost during WWI.

I think that the whole zep-carrier was a really cool idea, though it would have bacome impractical as WWII went on. Some of the late-war planes would have stalled out trying to catch the hook during recovery. But earlier on, they would have offered a fast way to get planes on target- almost 120 mph compared to a CV's top speed of about 35 mph!

Oh well, at least we still have Crimson Skies!!!

[Kmelew]

Actually the British were trying the airplane/airship combination with R33 back around 1919.  The U.S.S. Los Angeles (ZR-3) was ordered to replace the British-built R38.  The R38 (ZR-2) broke up over Hull, England and exploded on its last trail flight.  Although the airship had U.S. Navy colors, it was never accepted into the Navy.

After the R38 disaster the British offered another airship, which the US refused.

Soon afterwards the US ordered the LZ-126 from the Zeppelin Company, greatly angering the British.  Although the Los Angeles was a Navy ship, the US promised the Allies it would not be used for military purposes but rather to explore the commercial posibilities of airships.  When the US was developing the technology and the doctrine which would lead to the Akron and Macon, the US had to get permission from the Allies to allow the Los Angeles to be used for military purposes.

The Los Angeles was the only Navy rigid not lost to accident.  It was decommissoned in the early-30's and broken up in 1939.  

[J. Carney]

Thanks, man... didn't know that the idea was around that long.

Great little post.

[Tremok]

Do you, by chance, have the Hindenburg book by Rick Archbold?    

[JMM]

I think that with today's technology and rising fuel costs, Zeppelins would be a very nice way to travel. With Helium being used and minimal petrol for the turboprop engines and natural gas for the galley stoves, I think it would be very economical and efficient. With nice staterooms, computer lab, telephones, I guess a few hours or days more "just to get from point A to B" would not be so bad. Plus the view! I hate scrunching up my neck just took out a 737s window to see outside!  

Just think, if something DID go wrong and the airship was going down, everyone could just parachute to safety, you do not have that option on a jet aircraft, even with the safety briefs you get upon takeoff, it's basically hunch down with the cushion and kiss your arse goodbye, especially if you are going down over desert or mountain terrain!  

[J. Carney]

I'd also be interested in travel by zep, though there are a few bad points- like not being able to fly above the weather like in a plane. But I also think that that can be mostly avoided now thanks to the better weather forcasting abilities that we have now. It would be cool to go the slow way for a change... kinda like taking the train, which I also like to do when the opportunity presents itself.

[Elvis]

How would a Zepplin fare in a place such as the Grand Canyon for tours and such. I've always thought that it would be an ideal place for the use of them.  

[JMM]

You know Elvis, good idea! Here in Chihuahua they have the Copper Canyon, much bigger than our Grand Canyon, they usually tour by train. I wonder how much a new modern Zep would run? Can't be too hard to fly the darn things, El Paso to Copper Canyon would be a cool route, or Chihuahua City to Copper Canyon, it would also increase tourism in Chihuahua City.  

[Kmelew]

The technology needed to build a fly a rigid airship no longer exists--it would have to be done from scratch and I'm afraid development costs would be very high

A helium-filled rigid airship is essentially a low altitude vehicle, with a pressure height of less than 10,000 feet.  "Pressure Height" is how high an airship could go up before the gas cells burst.  Rigid airships had automatic valves to vent helium when the ship approached its pressure height.

The Navy had some good experience with sailing rigid airships over a continental land mass.  They usually didn't fare too well.  The airships usually had to undergo some serious refits following a transcontinental flight.  And since the pressure height was relatively low, this limited the routes the airships could take through the Rockies.  Jack you might be interested to know that the Navy's rigids usually flew from Lakehurst to San Diego via El Paso.

Rigid airships are more suited flying over oceans than land masses.  And I hope one day that I would be able to travel on one!

For anyone interested in Navy LTA, check out  Sky Ships:  A History of the Airship in the United States Navy