Topic: Army gets new uniform  (Read 12724 times)

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J. Carney

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Army gets new uniform
« on: June 15, 2004, 10:16:13 am »
from Yahoo news



Tue Jun 15, 4:49 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US Army unveiled its first new combat uniform in more than two decades, opting for a single camouflage pattern that is supposed to blend into an urban environment as easily as desert or woodlands.

The uniform was tested in Iraq (news - web sites) by soldiers of a Stryker brigade who made a number of suggestions to make it a more practical fit for troops fighting in body armor than the army's current battle dress uniform, officials said.

It has no buttons, only zippers and velcro fastners for everything from unit patches to cuffs and Mao-style collars.

Slanted pockets on the chest allow soldiers to slip their hands more easily under armored vests. Similarly cargo pockets on the pants are positioned so that things don't fall out when they're sitting in Humvees or Stryker armored vehicles.

The uniforms have elbow pouches that can be filled with gel pads to cushion the blow of a bruising dive or crawl.

Soldiers also will be giving up their traditional black boots for tan desert or brown combat boots.

But the most controversial change is likely to be its single camouflage pattern in tan, green and gray for all environments. The army currently has separate battle dress uniforms for woodland or desert environments.

"We were trying to match three basic environments -- woodland, desert and urban combat -- and to get a uniform that worked as best it could in all three," said Brigadier General James Moran.

"Now what we came up with ... is an 80 percent solution in each of those environments," he said.

Moran said the new pattern may not be a perfect match for desert warfare, but even in Iraq the environment changes from desert to lush farmland in the Tigris and Eurphrates River valleys.

"We needed a uniform that allowed us to transition from environment to environment and environment, and not have a absolutely perfect desert uniform," he said.

"We were preparing for combat in the desert, but then we fought in the lush green area between the Tigris and the Euprates rivers," he explained.

Moran also said it was more economical to produce a uniform with a single pattern. The army issues four uniforms per soldier at a cost of 88 dollars each. Creating three variants of the combat uniform would have meant issuing a dozen uniforms per soldier, he said.

The army plans to issue four uniforms apiece to 15,000 soldiers a month beginning in March, and to complete the transition by 2007.

It also is developing a lighter new assault rifle called the XM8, which has interchangeable parts that can be configured as a carbine, a more compact assault rifle, or a longer barreled designated marksman rifle.

The new weapon, which has not yet been approved for production, can be stripped and cleaned in four minutes compared to 11 minutes for the M-16.

In tests, it has fired 15,000 rounds without cleaning or lubrication, said Colonel Michael Smith.   

Moran said the army also is producing 138,000 sets of body armor by the end of the year that weighs 16 pounds compared to 25 pounds on the old vests.

In addition, it is producing 50,000 separate sets of armor by September to protect shoulders and under arms to better protect soldiers whose sides are exposed when they drive armored Humvees.

But Moran cautioned that the extra armor comes at a cost in weight and combat effectiveness. He added that even soldiers in body armor and armored Humvees are vulnerable to roadside bombs.  

Capt. Mike

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2004, 03:39:16 pm »
Back to the brown boot days...'cause the crap don't show when they kick you in the butt...


Just some old memories...

Mike
 

Scott Allen Abfalter

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2004, 04:18:20 pm »

They need to ask some of the "don't ask; don't tell" guys in their ranks how it looks!

 

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2004, 04:33:24 pm »
LOL...

Bad thing is now they have said that you can't roll up your sleeves in the summer. Not a good thing for anyone stationed south of Ft. Campell.

JMM

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2004, 05:59:23 pm »
I'm not in favor of this new uniform being the "official" uniform. We need 3 different sets, camo woodland green, desert, and this one, plus maybe a white for cold terrain fighting (yes, it can happen, ask the Korean vets). The Army just did not think in it's basic issues, they should issue 2-3 sets of each different terrain uniform.

I still wear my DS BDU shirts, 13 yrs and not a button missing or tear in the shirts, Levi's could NEVER match that!

Yes, a person MUST be able to roll up their sleeves! Try going to NTC in Cali or Ft. Bliss in summertime with this "new" uniform.

Storm? Has the clothing and allowance gone up a lot? I could not believe the prices of BDUs nowadays! The M.I.C. sure is raking off the bucks nowadays for selling military clothing!

Besides the BDUs, let's go back to the sharp khaki dress uniform, looks a LOT better than those butt ugly dress greens.  

Iceman

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2004, 06:01:24 pm »
That'll change. Guaranteed. Some General will figure it's wayy too hot and do it anyways, hence making it accepted. Hell, I would.  

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2004, 06:34:30 pm »
I also agre that we need more thanone 'universal' color for the field uniforms. THough at least the Army was smart enough to realize that of all the 'universal' colors, gray blends in the best everywhere.

And I hate the green Class-A's too, both the cut and the color- they look like a green Luftwaffe uniform!. Wish that we could go back to green fatigues and khaki uniforms for 'everyday' wear and have BDU's just for in the field.

And I'm hoping that ya'll are right about the sleeves- it was 92 at drill this week andthe AC's went out while we were gone!

SL-Punisher

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2004, 07:41:09 pm »
Quote:


They need to ask some of the "don't ask; don't tell" guys in their ranks how it looks!

 




Don't...it's a trap!

Iceman

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2004, 07:54:06 pm »
You never know how hot they are until you wear them though. It might be nice and cool on the inside.  

Merlinfmct87

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2004, 10:14:42 pm »
Looks nice...I'd love to see how it works.

And whoever said you can't roll up sleeves has never stepped outside his Air Conditioned desk. What a dope.

Merlin  

Rat_Boy

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2004, 10:32:30 pm »
Dear Lord, Dr. Evil is now designing outfits for the DoD!

The_Joker

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2004, 01:29:18 am »
Am I the only one that thinks velcro closures are a bad thing?  First of all, Velcro wears out, second, it could be an extreme hindrance to noise control because even the most stealthy soldier could get snagged on a branch or something.  The button wouldn't come undone, but velcro would with a loud noise to boot.  

Sethan

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2004, 01:54:25 am »
Quote:

Am I the only one that thinks velcro closures are a bad thing?  First of all, Velcro wears out, second, it could be an extreme hindrance to noise control because even the most stealthy soldier could get snagged on a branch or something.  The button wouldn't come undone, but velcro would with a loud noise to boot.  




I was thinking much the same thing when I read that - though I was thinking more of needing to get into that pocket while under cover.

manitoba

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2004, 02:21:08 am »
the velco wouldnt be a bad idea if the sewn the sides done.  no i am not army, but i was navy airdale who worked on aircraft carriers and thats how we had our pockets the werent completely sewn shut. that way they couldnt be ripped open by trees or anything.  maybe the gray scales wont be to bad.  i personally dont care for it. i like the desert fatigues myself. but thats just an opinion of an ex squid so i am sure u grunts probably wont take to much of it. and i dont like the idea of zippers period. sorry to easy to break or get stuck.    and it would be funny to see them in cali as i went to boot there in san diego during july and august we had 13 red flag days.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by manitoba »

Clark Kent

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2004, 03:13:52 am »
Quote:

You never know how hot they are until you wear them though. It might be nice and cool on the inside.  




Been there, and it bites, majorly.  They were barely tolerable when I was in Ft jackson through the summer for basic, and I do mean barely.  the only way I got through that summer was by going through 3 pair of underwear and three t- shrts a day in order to cope with the excess sweating.  
Once I was fuil time regular army, they became unbearable, since you are pretty much required tio starch the damn things so badly they nearly stand up on their own.  This is a very bad thing, since they will not breath at all and the heat just collects in them making them like a sauna.  I was in just after they said no rolling up the sleeves, and by then they had also gotten to the point where they wouldn't let us take the BDU tops off when working in the heat.  Whoever came up with the idea of never tyaking the BDU tops off or not rolling up the sleeves is some pencil pushing pansy who either hasn't been out working in the heat in decades, or, most likely, doesn't know what it's like to be out in the heat on those damn things.

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

Villa64

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2004, 05:09:51 pm »
The new uniform looks like it has alot in common with the ABDU.   The front opening (zipper/velcro)  looks identical.  The velcro on that opening wears out over time.  The velcro on the pockets is also a common factor, and yes, they do SCRREETCH! when you open them.  The Mao collar may be only when it is put up.  The collar in the pic looks like an ABDU when it is raised, and there is a velcro fastener to keep it up there.  Normally worn with the collar down, and it looks like a normal BDU.    I wonder if the pants cargo pockets are also the same.  On the ABDU the opening is in the front, so it points up when you are sitting down.  I think gray is a good idea, its the only common color around.  As for multiple uniform types, the Army has a problem outfitting everyone with proper uniforms whenever we go somewhere new, so going for a common uniform type aint a bad idea, considering that they are trying to outfit hundreds of thousands of soldiers in a short time.  I read somewhere that the old DBDU (not DCU) was designed with Soviet Asia in mind, not the Mideast. Go figure.

Regards
Villa

ferretlxix

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2004, 06:06:33 pm »
I like the Marines uniforms better.  Right now the new primary Navy Uniforms are in the testing phase and hopefully we'll get to see what it looks like and hopefully, I can finally decide to invest to getting my sea bag updated ( I don't want to spend too much money on uniforms when new items are just around the corner).

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2004, 06:54:17 pm »
ferret,

Spend money on uniforms... LOL, I thought that that was a perq of being in the ranks- you don't have to buy clothes like the guys who go to Knife and Fork School. I'll just let the Sovreign State of Alabama pay for my 4 pair when they come out.

Villa,

I got a couple of looks at the ABDUs in Iraq (never saw anyon a cute female, so I didn't look too hard, I'll admit) but I think that it's a pretty good design. I too take issue on the velcro on the pockets... buttons don't make noise. Velcro is great for guys driving a desk but not for troops in the field. The pockets on the front of the pants will make getting into them easier, but wil make keeping bulky items in them more difficult and uncomfortable, IMHO. Gray is sort of the 'go anywhere' color, but the Army does need to come up with a more specific scheme for troops to be deploied to a certian theater for long periods of time, good enough generally is till you have someone spot you and need to loose them after they know what to look for. Remember this is not designed to hide in a specific area, but a compromise for all areas. The Marines have 2 or 3 varriations on their new fatigues based on theater (green-based, tan-based and white-based(?))- the Army needs something similar.

My least favorite thing is the no-shine boot... I'll miss getting my boots blingin' for formation.

Edit: I also find it kinda funny that the U.S. Army is now wearing gray... us Southrons in the National Guard are going to have a field day with this! I'll have to get Third National and Alabama flags for the arm and a C.S. Army strip printed out for the first drill we wear them... my Lt. (from Indiania) would have a fit, but the NCO's would love it!!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 06:59:12 pm by J. Carney »

JMM

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2004, 07:39:27 pm »
Good point Carney, you think the Army will name the new color scheme "Confederate Grey?"    

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2004, 07:42:47 pm »
Somehow I think that the Pentagon would frown on that as an 'offical term,' but then again the best general officers almost always come from the South!

Sethan

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2004, 07:54:58 pm »
At least when I was in, enlisted had to buy their uniforms too.  The first set were issued, but the cost was deducted from your pay.

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2004, 07:57:11 pm »
Might take it out of my check, but I haven't noticed any money going out... and drill checks don't leave you much room to miss it. As a PFC, I was knocking back a whopping $110 a drill weekend. That wouldn't even buy me 2 sets of uniforms!!!

Villa64

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2004, 10:12:20 pm »
Here's a link with some more info.

 http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2004616.asp http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2004616.asp

I saw more similarities to the ABDU, including the calf pockets and lower leg closure ties.  Personally,  I think zippers are a better solution than velcro.  Buttons work too.

As for the color, I think the Army may be giving in to reality here.  I went to the desert twice, and both times CIF couldnt get us the right uniforms in time, or in correct quantity (in '90 and '03).  In '91, the rumor went around that the Rep. Guard was on the lookout for the 'elite forces' from Germany that could be identified by their 'elite green uniforms'.  BS... we were wearing woodland pattern BDU's.  All the remf's were wearing DBDU.  I suspect the 'elite forces' rumor was started by someone up at division who was trying to cover their ass for not being able to get us desert uniforms.  Ironsides, baby!

Regards
Villa

(I dont get the URL function, I hope the link shows up!)  

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2004, 10:26:47 pm »
LOL...

Yeah, I heard the Desert Storm stories about the 'elite troops' in their green uniforms- like my National Guard MP unit.

We almost went in greens this time.

Now all we have to do is get our fearless leaders to re-adopt full-size rank on the sleeves like in the old days so as you can tell the difference between a First Sergent and a Command Sergent Major after dark at a distance greater than a foot up your butt.

Edit: I also noticed the spaces for intrigal elbow and knee pads, for the soldier's comfort when the Army makes him 'assume the position."

BOHICA!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 10:28:47 pm by J. Carney »

manitoba

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2004, 11:43:31 pm »
dont they still have uniform allowences, they did when i was in.
 

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2004, 11:56:32 pm »
  I think it's just the old-timers got their brains fried from all that unauthorized drug testing that the military got by with during their tours.

So far as I'm aware, active duty are allowed a pair of boots and 2 suits each of summer and winter BDU's to replace worn or damaged uniforms. In the Guard I would get half that allowance, the boots and one of each type of uniform, though my unit only orders summer-weight BDU's; you don't wear out the cold-weather ones in Alabama... you just get too fat for them.

That is all IIRC, I'll have to ask to be sure.

Hilton

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2004, 09:15:42 am »
Here is the new "test" Air Force utility uniform

 

 

 

Notice the grey "no polish" boot? Don't know if I like it. I'll wait to see it in person.
Hilton  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Hilton »

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2004, 12:51:49 pm »
I thought this was the new boot approved for the Air Force's BDU's
 

I actually like the gray boot better than the tan ones we are getting. I'd wear it...  I just wish that we'd wise up and return to putting the full-size rank on our sleeves like ya'll do instead of the 'little black micro-rank' (tm) that the Army isin love with.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by J. Carney »

Hilton

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2004, 02:00:09 pm »
Har. Har. But you know what, it might look good on some female airmen. Maybe with some BDU's cut off real high. Maybe I could require my future assistant to wear them! LOL!

What micro-rank are you talking about???  

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2004, 02:19:20 pm »
Army rank for BDU's are placed on the collar, are black and are about the size of a single award ribbon  (and that's for E-6 and above, my E-4 rank is about 1/2" tall!). If you are walking around a post where you don't know all the people, it's pretty easy to misidentify someone- particularly those of a higher rank.

Basically, our rank on BDU's is as small as the slip-on rank you guys put on the tabs of your Gor-Tex. In bad lighting, you have to rely more on lines on the face than stripes on the collar to tell a person's rank.

And sorry about the boot thing... I like the idea behind an individualistic uniform for all branches, but I saw a Brigadeer in one of the new blue uniforms and had to hurt myself badly niot to laugh as I marvled at their ability to blend in with the folage in Alabama. In Colorado's spruce forrests, they ould work great, but not in pines.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by J. Carney »

Stormbringer

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2004, 04:31:16 pm »
Last one I recieved was S380.00 I think.

Tremok

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2004, 05:56:45 pm »
Quote:

I got a couple of looks at the ABDUs in Iraq (never saw anyon a cute female, so I didn't look too hard, I'll admit) but I think that it's a pretty good design. I too take issue on the velcro on the pockets... buttons don't make noise. Velcro is great for guys driving a desk but not for troops in the field.




Didn't the Brits come up with noiseless velcro a while back?

So, let's take a good look at this uniform:

 

Hmm. Is the army trying to make it's soliders as unintimidating as possible? Is the goal to get the enemy to busy laughing at them to shoot at them? To make the enemy believe no one in such a silly uniform could possibly be a threat? Nice camel excrete colored boats, by the way. I note how much better the vest blends in.

So the Army, the Air Force, and the Marines are working on or have new uniforms. The Navy is next in line for new threads, I suppose. Or are they perfectly happy with their spiffy whites?  

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tremok »

Stormbringer

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2004, 06:09:38 pm »
Beleive it or not the random digitized pattern actually fools the eye a lot better than the old ones when in the environment they are intended for. If the soldier was in the woods you would play hades trying to spot him. I've seen this stuff demonstrated forthe marimes when they fielded thier version of it. It looks funny in the open. In the woods its not quite so funny anymore particularly forthe enemy.

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2004, 06:14:00 pm »
Never saw said noisless velcro on thier uniforms... only buttons. And I could look at the Brit uniforms in detail, cause though their girls were ugly as sin, the Highlanders and Royal Irish had a couple of hotties around   .

The gray will blend in better in the woods- or desert, for that matter- than it does in that picture. Remember, you don't try to hide in an open field! I'm not happy about the color and would haveprefered a little more green in it, but gray hides pretty well. I hunt in gray coveralls and hve sat quietly in a thicket while my friends walked by several times... and we are all hunters and most of us are in the Guard. Gray works, but I think a greener shade would work better.

The boots I do take issue with- the gray onesHilton showed above look like they would work infinately better, both practicaly and with the uniform.

Dash Jones

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2004, 06:50:41 pm »
I don't know, the not having to polish the boot sounds like a good idea to me.  I'm certain the military holds up the polish on their boots higher than my dad.  My dad used to offer me some money for polishing his boots, and he nigh wanted to see a reflection in them...didn't take me long to realize the effort wasn't worth the money, and he was better suited to going to others for polishing his boots and shoes.

If I had to keep that type of shine up on BDUs, I think it would stink to wear such things.  Plus, what practicality would having polished boots be in the field?

Kind of voids the purpose of a BDU...plus...isn't shoe polish flammable?

Stormbringer

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2004, 06:59:32 pm »
In the garrison environment it is a discipline marker. In the field it keeps them from rotting and keeps then resistant to water . but in the fieldthey aren't required to be spit shinned just kiwied and brushed. The reg actually says evenly shined. Tradition has the standard much higherthan the regulation requires.  

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2004, 07:28:30 pm »
Yeah, Dash... Kiwi is flamable; but it is also waterproof, which is why you really polish the boots, it keeps trhe leather supple, prevents cracking and keeps it waterproof.

And Storm is on the money when he says that the high-polish shines are more a matter of pride than regulations. In fact, for the first 8 weeks of MP training, you are forbiden from spit-shining boots because you are not a soldier yet and you are not allowed to do anything that makes you look any better than the ate-up, rag-bag, [bleep]ed-up as a soup-sandwich civilian in training that you are.

That's just one of the ways soldiers in a garrison enviroment say "I'm a pro." I know when my unit is in garrison for our summer camp (which is rare) everyone going out in patrol cars brings an extra starched pair of BDU's an polished boots with them in the trunk 'for emergencies'. That way, if they get into a scuffle, or even if the humidity just kills the starch job on their uniforms, they can still look as fresh and crisp for a call at the end of thier shift as one at the begining.

Though it is tough on the washing machine... and the iron.

Byzantine

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2004, 12:22:14 am »
Starch in clothing:
1. the invention of a sadisitc mastermind?
or
2. divine punishment for the sins of the human race?

you tell me.

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2004, 12:28:35 am »
I vote the invention of a sadistic mastermind...

punishment for sins is just that, punishment... something that teaches a lesson.

Requiring people to starch is just pure outright meanness!

J. Carney

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Army gets new uniform
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2004, 10:16:13 am »
from Yahoo news



Tue Jun 15, 4:49 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US Army unveiled its first new combat uniform in more than two decades, opting for a single camouflage pattern that is supposed to blend into an urban environment as easily as desert or woodlands.

The uniform was tested in Iraq (news - web sites) by soldiers of a Stryker brigade who made a number of suggestions to make it a more practical fit for troops fighting in body armor than the army's current battle dress uniform, officials said.

It has no buttons, only zippers and velcro fastners for everything from unit patches to cuffs and Mao-style collars.

Slanted pockets on the chest allow soldiers to slip their hands more easily under armored vests. Similarly cargo pockets on the pants are positioned so that things don't fall out when they're sitting in Humvees or Stryker armored vehicles.

The uniforms have elbow pouches that can be filled with gel pads to cushion the blow of a bruising dive or crawl.

Soldiers also will be giving up their traditional black boots for tan desert or brown combat boots.

But the most controversial change is likely to be its single camouflage pattern in tan, green and gray for all environments. The army currently has separate battle dress uniforms for woodland or desert environments.

"We were trying to match three basic environments -- woodland, desert and urban combat -- and to get a uniform that worked as best it could in all three," said Brigadier General James Moran.

"Now what we came up with ... is an 80 percent solution in each of those environments," he said.

Moran said the new pattern may not be a perfect match for desert warfare, but even in Iraq the environment changes from desert to lush farmland in the Tigris and Eurphrates River valleys.

"We needed a uniform that allowed us to transition from environment to environment and environment, and not have a absolutely perfect desert uniform," he said.

"We were preparing for combat in the desert, but then we fought in the lush green area between the Tigris and the Euprates rivers," he explained.

Moran also said it was more economical to produce a uniform with a single pattern. The army issues four uniforms per soldier at a cost of 88 dollars each. Creating three variants of the combat uniform would have meant issuing a dozen uniforms per soldier, he said.

The army plans to issue four uniforms apiece to 15,000 soldiers a month beginning in March, and to complete the transition by 2007.

It also is developing a lighter new assault rifle called the XM8, which has interchangeable parts that can be configured as a carbine, a more compact assault rifle, or a longer barreled designated marksman rifle.

The new weapon, which has not yet been approved for production, can be stripped and cleaned in four minutes compared to 11 minutes for the M-16.

In tests, it has fired 15,000 rounds without cleaning or lubrication, said Colonel Michael Smith.   

Moran said the army also is producing 138,000 sets of body armor by the end of the year that weighs 16 pounds compared to 25 pounds on the old vests.

In addition, it is producing 50,000 separate sets of armor by September to protect shoulders and under arms to better protect soldiers whose sides are exposed when they drive armored Humvees.

But Moran cautioned that the extra armor comes at a cost in weight and combat effectiveness. He added that even soldiers in body armor and armored Humvees are vulnerable to roadside bombs.  

Capt. Mike

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2004, 03:39:16 pm »
Back to the brown boot days...'cause the crap don't show when they kick you in the butt...


Just some old memories...

Mike
 

Scott Allen Abfalter

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2004, 04:18:20 pm »

They need to ask some of the "don't ask; don't tell" guys in their ranks how it looks!

 

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2004, 04:33:24 pm »
LOL...

Bad thing is now they have said that you can't roll up your sleeves in the summer. Not a good thing for anyone stationed south of Ft. Campell.

JMM

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2004, 05:59:23 pm »
I'm not in favor of this new uniform being the "official" uniform. We need 3 different sets, camo woodland green, desert, and this one, plus maybe a white for cold terrain fighting (yes, it can happen, ask the Korean vets). The Army just did not think in it's basic issues, they should issue 2-3 sets of each different terrain uniform.

I still wear my DS BDU shirts, 13 yrs and not a button missing or tear in the shirts, Levi's could NEVER match that!

Yes, a person MUST be able to roll up their sleeves! Try going to NTC in Cali or Ft. Bliss in summertime with this "new" uniform.

Storm? Has the clothing and allowance gone up a lot? I could not believe the prices of BDUs nowadays! The M.I.C. sure is raking off the bucks nowadays for selling military clothing!

Besides the BDUs, let's go back to the sharp khaki dress uniform, looks a LOT better than those butt ugly dress greens.  

Iceman

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2004, 06:01:24 pm »
That'll change. Guaranteed. Some General will figure it's wayy too hot and do it anyways, hence making it accepted. Hell, I would.  

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2004, 06:34:30 pm »
I also agre that we need more thanone 'universal' color for the field uniforms. THough at least the Army was smart enough to realize that of all the 'universal' colors, gray blends in the best everywhere.

And I hate the green Class-A's too, both the cut and the color- they look like a green Luftwaffe uniform!. Wish that we could go back to green fatigues and khaki uniforms for 'everyday' wear and have BDU's just for in the field.

And I'm hoping that ya'll are right about the sleeves- it was 92 at drill this week andthe AC's went out while we were gone!

SL-Punisher

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2004, 07:41:09 pm »
Quote:


They need to ask some of the "don't ask; don't tell" guys in their ranks how it looks!

 




Don't...it's a trap!

Iceman

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2004, 07:54:06 pm »
You never know how hot they are until you wear them though. It might be nice and cool on the inside.  

Merlinfmct87

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2004, 10:14:42 pm »
Looks nice...I'd love to see how it works.

And whoever said you can't roll up sleeves has never stepped outside his Air Conditioned desk. What a dope.

Merlin  

Rat_Boy

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2004, 10:32:30 pm »
Dear Lord, Dr. Evil is now designing outfits for the DoD!

The_Joker

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2004, 01:29:18 am »
Am I the only one that thinks velcro closures are a bad thing?  First of all, Velcro wears out, second, it could be an extreme hindrance to noise control because even the most stealthy soldier could get snagged on a branch or something.  The button wouldn't come undone, but velcro would with a loud noise to boot.  

Sethan

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2004, 01:54:25 am »
Quote:

Am I the only one that thinks velcro closures are a bad thing?  First of all, Velcro wears out, second, it could be an extreme hindrance to noise control because even the most stealthy soldier could get snagged on a branch or something.  The button wouldn't come undone, but velcro would with a loud noise to boot.  




I was thinking much the same thing when I read that - though I was thinking more of needing to get into that pocket while under cover.

manitoba

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2004, 02:21:08 am »
the velco wouldnt be a bad idea if the sewn the sides done.  no i am not army, but i was navy airdale who worked on aircraft carriers and thats how we had our pockets the werent completely sewn shut. that way they couldnt be ripped open by trees or anything.  maybe the gray scales wont be to bad.  i personally dont care for it. i like the desert fatigues myself. but thats just an opinion of an ex squid so i am sure u grunts probably wont take to much of it. and i dont like the idea of zippers period. sorry to easy to break or get stuck.    and it would be funny to see them in cali as i went to boot there in san diego during july and august we had 13 red flag days.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by manitoba »

Clark Kent

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2004, 03:13:52 am »
Quote:

You never know how hot they are until you wear them though. It might be nice and cool on the inside.  




Been there, and it bites, majorly.  They were barely tolerable when I was in Ft jackson through the summer for basic, and I do mean barely.  the only way I got through that summer was by going through 3 pair of underwear and three t- shrts a day in order to cope with the excess sweating.  
Once I was fuil time regular army, they became unbearable, since you are pretty much required tio starch the damn things so badly they nearly stand up on their own.  This is a very bad thing, since they will not breath at all and the heat just collects in them making them like a sauna.  I was in just after they said no rolling up the sleeves, and by then they had also gotten to the point where they wouldn't let us take the BDU tops off when working in the heat.  Whoever came up with the idea of never tyaking the BDU tops off or not rolling up the sleeves is some pencil pushing pansy who either hasn't been out working in the heat in decades, or, most likely, doesn't know what it's like to be out in the heat on those damn things.

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

Villa64

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2004, 05:09:51 pm »
The new uniform looks like it has alot in common with the ABDU.   The front opening (zipper/velcro)  looks identical.  The velcro on that opening wears out over time.  The velcro on the pockets is also a common factor, and yes, they do SCRREETCH! when you open them.  The Mao collar may be only when it is put up.  The collar in the pic looks like an ABDU when it is raised, and there is a velcro fastener to keep it up there.  Normally worn with the collar down, and it looks like a normal BDU.    I wonder if the pants cargo pockets are also the same.  On the ABDU the opening is in the front, so it points up when you are sitting down.  I think gray is a good idea, its the only common color around.  As for multiple uniform types, the Army has a problem outfitting everyone with proper uniforms whenever we go somewhere new, so going for a common uniform type aint a bad idea, considering that they are trying to outfit hundreds of thousands of soldiers in a short time.  I read somewhere that the old DBDU (not DCU) was designed with Soviet Asia in mind, not the Mideast. Go figure.

Regards
Villa

ferretlxix

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2004, 06:06:33 pm »
I like the Marines uniforms better.  Right now the new primary Navy Uniforms are in the testing phase and hopefully we'll get to see what it looks like and hopefully, I can finally decide to invest to getting my sea bag updated ( I don't want to spend too much money on uniforms when new items are just around the corner).

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2004, 06:54:17 pm »
ferret,

Spend money on uniforms... LOL, I thought that that was a perq of being in the ranks- you don't have to buy clothes like the guys who go to Knife and Fork School. I'll just let the Sovreign State of Alabama pay for my 4 pair when they come out.

Villa,

I got a couple of looks at the ABDUs in Iraq (never saw anyon a cute female, so I didn't look too hard, I'll admit) but I think that it's a pretty good design. I too take issue on the velcro on the pockets... buttons don't make noise. Velcro is great for guys driving a desk but not for troops in the field. The pockets on the front of the pants will make getting into them easier, but wil make keeping bulky items in them more difficult and uncomfortable, IMHO. Gray is sort of the 'go anywhere' color, but the Army does need to come up with a more specific scheme for troops to be deploied to a certian theater for long periods of time, good enough generally is till you have someone spot you and need to loose them after they know what to look for. Remember this is not designed to hide in a specific area, but a compromise for all areas. The Marines have 2 or 3 varriations on their new fatigues based on theater (green-based, tan-based and white-based(?))- the Army needs something similar.

My least favorite thing is the no-shine boot... I'll miss getting my boots blingin' for formation.

Edit: I also find it kinda funny that the U.S. Army is now wearing gray... us Southrons in the National Guard are going to have a field day with this! I'll have to get Third National and Alabama flags for the arm and a C.S. Army strip printed out for the first drill we wear them... my Lt. (from Indiania) would have a fit, but the NCO's would love it!!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 06:59:12 pm by J. Carney »

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2004, 07:39:27 pm »
Good point Carney, you think the Army will name the new color scheme "Confederate Grey?"    

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2004, 07:42:47 pm »
Somehow I think that the Pentagon would frown on that as an 'offical term,' but then again the best general officers almost always come from the South!

Sethan

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2004, 07:54:58 pm »
At least when I was in, enlisted had to buy their uniforms too.  The first set were issued, but the cost was deducted from your pay.

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2004, 07:57:11 pm »
Might take it out of my check, but I haven't noticed any money going out... and drill checks don't leave you much room to miss it. As a PFC, I was knocking back a whopping $110 a drill weekend. That wouldn't even buy me 2 sets of uniforms!!!

Villa64

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2004, 10:12:20 pm »
Here's a link with some more info.

 http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2004616.asp http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2004616.asp

I saw more similarities to the ABDU, including the calf pockets and lower leg closure ties.  Personally,  I think zippers are a better solution than velcro.  Buttons work too.

As for the color, I think the Army may be giving in to reality here.  I went to the desert twice, and both times CIF couldnt get us the right uniforms in time, or in correct quantity (in '90 and '03).  In '91, the rumor went around that the Rep. Guard was on the lookout for the 'elite forces' from Germany that could be identified by their 'elite green uniforms'.  BS... we were wearing woodland pattern BDU's.  All the remf's were wearing DBDU.  I suspect the 'elite forces' rumor was started by someone up at division who was trying to cover their ass for not being able to get us desert uniforms.  Ironsides, baby!

Regards
Villa

(I dont get the URL function, I hope the link shows up!)  

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2004, 10:26:47 pm »
LOL...

Yeah, I heard the Desert Storm stories about the 'elite troops' in their green uniforms- like my National Guard MP unit.

We almost went in greens this time.

Now all we have to do is get our fearless leaders to re-adopt full-size rank on the sleeves like in the old days so as you can tell the difference between a First Sergent and a Command Sergent Major after dark at a distance greater than a foot up your butt.

Edit: I also noticed the spaces for intrigal elbow and knee pads, for the soldier's comfort when the Army makes him 'assume the position."

BOHICA!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 10:28:47 pm by J. Carney »

manitoba

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2004, 11:43:31 pm »
dont they still have uniform allowences, they did when i was in.
 

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2004, 11:56:32 pm »
  I think it's just the old-timers got their brains fried from all that unauthorized drug testing that the military got by with during their tours.

So far as I'm aware, active duty are allowed a pair of boots and 2 suits each of summer and winter BDU's to replace worn or damaged uniforms. In the Guard I would get half that allowance, the boots and one of each type of uniform, though my unit only orders summer-weight BDU's; you don't wear out the cold-weather ones in Alabama... you just get too fat for them.

That is all IIRC, I'll have to ask to be sure.

Hilton

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2004, 09:15:42 am »
Here is the new "test" Air Force utility uniform

 

 

 

Notice the grey "no polish" boot? Don't know if I like it. I'll wait to see it in person.
Hilton  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Hilton »

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2004, 12:51:49 pm »
I thought this was the new boot approved for the Air Force's BDU's
 

I actually like the gray boot better than the tan ones we are getting. I'd wear it...  I just wish that we'd wise up and return to putting the full-size rank on our sleeves like ya'll do instead of the 'little black micro-rank' (tm) that the Army isin love with.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by J. Carney »

Hilton

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2004, 02:00:09 pm »
Har. Har. But you know what, it might look good on some female airmen. Maybe with some BDU's cut off real high. Maybe I could require my future assistant to wear them! LOL!

What micro-rank are you talking about???  

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2004, 02:19:20 pm »
Army rank for BDU's are placed on the collar, are black and are about the size of a single award ribbon  (and that's for E-6 and above, my E-4 rank is about 1/2" tall!). If you are walking around a post where you don't know all the people, it's pretty easy to misidentify someone- particularly those of a higher rank.

Basically, our rank on BDU's is as small as the slip-on rank you guys put on the tabs of your Gor-Tex. In bad lighting, you have to rely more on lines on the face than stripes on the collar to tell a person's rank.

And sorry about the boot thing... I like the idea behind an individualistic uniform for all branches, but I saw a Brigadeer in one of the new blue uniforms and had to hurt myself badly niot to laugh as I marvled at their ability to blend in with the folage in Alabama. In Colorado's spruce forrests, they ould work great, but not in pines.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by J. Carney »

Stormbringer

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2004, 04:31:16 pm »
Last one I recieved was S380.00 I think.

Tremok

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2004, 05:56:45 pm »
Quote:

I got a couple of looks at the ABDUs in Iraq (never saw anyon a cute female, so I didn't look too hard, I'll admit) but I think that it's a pretty good design. I too take issue on the velcro on the pockets... buttons don't make noise. Velcro is great for guys driving a desk but not for troops in the field.




Didn't the Brits come up with noiseless velcro a while back?

So, let's take a good look at this uniform:

 

Hmm. Is the army trying to make it's soliders as unintimidating as possible? Is the goal to get the enemy to busy laughing at them to shoot at them? To make the enemy believe no one in such a silly uniform could possibly be a threat? Nice camel excrete colored boats, by the way. I note how much better the vest blends in.

So the Army, the Air Force, and the Marines are working on or have new uniforms. The Navy is next in line for new threads, I suppose. Or are they perfectly happy with their spiffy whites?  

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tremok »

Stormbringer

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2004, 06:09:38 pm »
Beleive it or not the random digitized pattern actually fools the eye a lot better than the old ones when in the environment they are intended for. If the soldier was in the woods you would play hades trying to spot him. I've seen this stuff demonstrated forthe marimes when they fielded thier version of it. It looks funny in the open. In the woods its not quite so funny anymore particularly forthe enemy.

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2004, 06:14:00 pm »
Never saw said noisless velcro on thier uniforms... only buttons. And I could look at the Brit uniforms in detail, cause though their girls were ugly as sin, the Highlanders and Royal Irish had a couple of hotties around   .

The gray will blend in better in the woods- or desert, for that matter- than it does in that picture. Remember, you don't try to hide in an open field! I'm not happy about the color and would haveprefered a little more green in it, but gray hides pretty well. I hunt in gray coveralls and hve sat quietly in a thicket while my friends walked by several times... and we are all hunters and most of us are in the Guard. Gray works, but I think a greener shade would work better.

The boots I do take issue with- the gray onesHilton showed above look like they would work infinately better, both practicaly and with the uniform.

Dash Jones

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2004, 06:50:41 pm »
I don't know, the not having to polish the boot sounds like a good idea to me.  I'm certain the military holds up the polish on their boots higher than my dad.  My dad used to offer me some money for polishing his boots, and he nigh wanted to see a reflection in them...didn't take me long to realize the effort wasn't worth the money, and he was better suited to going to others for polishing his boots and shoes.

If I had to keep that type of shine up on BDUs, I think it would stink to wear such things.  Plus, what practicality would having polished boots be in the field?

Kind of voids the purpose of a BDU...plus...isn't shoe polish flammable?

Stormbringer

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2004, 06:59:32 pm »
In the garrison environment it is a discipline marker. In the field it keeps them from rotting and keeps then resistant to water . but in the fieldthey aren't required to be spit shinned just kiwied and brushed. The reg actually says evenly shined. Tradition has the standard much higherthan the regulation requires.  

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2004, 07:28:30 pm »
Yeah, Dash... Kiwi is flamable; but it is also waterproof, which is why you really polish the boots, it keeps trhe leather supple, prevents cracking and keeps it waterproof.

And Storm is on the money when he says that the high-polish shines are more a matter of pride than regulations. In fact, for the first 8 weeks of MP training, you are forbiden from spit-shining boots because you are not a soldier yet and you are not allowed to do anything that makes you look any better than the ate-up, rag-bag, [bleep]ed-up as a soup-sandwich civilian in training that you are.

That's just one of the ways soldiers in a garrison enviroment say "I'm a pro." I know when my unit is in garrison for our summer camp (which is rare) everyone going out in patrol cars brings an extra starched pair of BDU's an polished boots with them in the trunk 'for emergencies'. That way, if they get into a scuffle, or even if the humidity just kills the starch job on their uniforms, they can still look as fresh and crisp for a call at the end of thier shift as one at the begining.

Though it is tough on the washing machine... and the iron.

Byzantine

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #76 on: June 18, 2004, 12:22:14 am »
Starch in clothing:
1. the invention of a sadisitc mastermind?
or
2. divine punishment for the sins of the human race?

you tell me.

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #77 on: June 18, 2004, 12:28:35 am »
I vote the invention of a sadistic mastermind...

punishment for sins is just that, punishment... something that teaches a lesson.

Requiring people to starch is just pure outright meanness!

J. Carney

  • Guest
Army gets new uniform
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2004, 10:16:13 am »
from Yahoo news



Tue Jun 15, 4:49 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US Army unveiled its first new combat uniform in more than two decades, opting for a single camouflage pattern that is supposed to blend into an urban environment as easily as desert or woodlands.

The uniform was tested in Iraq (news - web sites) by soldiers of a Stryker brigade who made a number of suggestions to make it a more practical fit for troops fighting in body armor than the army's current battle dress uniform, officials said.

It has no buttons, only zippers and velcro fastners for everything from unit patches to cuffs and Mao-style collars.

Slanted pockets on the chest allow soldiers to slip their hands more easily under armored vests. Similarly cargo pockets on the pants are positioned so that things don't fall out when they're sitting in Humvees or Stryker armored vehicles.

The uniforms have elbow pouches that can be filled with gel pads to cushion the blow of a bruising dive or crawl.

Soldiers also will be giving up their traditional black boots for tan desert or brown combat boots.

But the most controversial change is likely to be its single camouflage pattern in tan, green and gray for all environments. The army currently has separate battle dress uniforms for woodland or desert environments.

"We were trying to match three basic environments -- woodland, desert and urban combat -- and to get a uniform that worked as best it could in all three," said Brigadier General James Moran.

"Now what we came up with ... is an 80 percent solution in each of those environments," he said.

Moran said the new pattern may not be a perfect match for desert warfare, but even in Iraq the environment changes from desert to lush farmland in the Tigris and Eurphrates River valleys.

"We needed a uniform that allowed us to transition from environment to environment and environment, and not have a absolutely perfect desert uniform," he said.

"We were preparing for combat in the desert, but then we fought in the lush green area between the Tigris and the Euprates rivers," he explained.

Moran also said it was more economical to produce a uniform with a single pattern. The army issues four uniforms per soldier at a cost of 88 dollars each. Creating three variants of the combat uniform would have meant issuing a dozen uniforms per soldier, he said.

The army plans to issue four uniforms apiece to 15,000 soldiers a month beginning in March, and to complete the transition by 2007.

It also is developing a lighter new assault rifle called the XM8, which has interchangeable parts that can be configured as a carbine, a more compact assault rifle, or a longer barreled designated marksman rifle.

The new weapon, which has not yet been approved for production, can be stripped and cleaned in four minutes compared to 11 minutes for the M-16.

In tests, it has fired 15,000 rounds without cleaning or lubrication, said Colonel Michael Smith.   

Moran said the army also is producing 138,000 sets of body armor by the end of the year that weighs 16 pounds compared to 25 pounds on the old vests.

In addition, it is producing 50,000 separate sets of armor by September to protect shoulders and under arms to better protect soldiers whose sides are exposed when they drive armored Humvees.

But Moran cautioned that the extra armor comes at a cost in weight and combat effectiveness. He added that even soldiers in body armor and armored Humvees are vulnerable to roadside bombs.  

Capt. Mike

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2004, 03:39:16 pm »
Back to the brown boot days...'cause the crap don't show when they kick you in the butt...


Just some old memories...

Mike
 

Scott Allen Abfalter

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2004, 04:18:20 pm »

They need to ask some of the "don't ask; don't tell" guys in their ranks how it looks!

 

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #81 on: June 15, 2004, 04:33:24 pm »
LOL...

Bad thing is now they have said that you can't roll up your sleeves in the summer. Not a good thing for anyone stationed south of Ft. Campell.

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2004, 05:59:23 pm »
I'm not in favor of this new uniform being the "official" uniform. We need 3 different sets, camo woodland green, desert, and this one, plus maybe a white for cold terrain fighting (yes, it can happen, ask the Korean vets). The Army just did not think in it's basic issues, they should issue 2-3 sets of each different terrain uniform.

I still wear my DS BDU shirts, 13 yrs and not a button missing or tear in the shirts, Levi's could NEVER match that!

Yes, a person MUST be able to roll up their sleeves! Try going to NTC in Cali or Ft. Bliss in summertime with this "new" uniform.

Storm? Has the clothing and allowance gone up a lot? I could not believe the prices of BDUs nowadays! The M.I.C. sure is raking off the bucks nowadays for selling military clothing!

Besides the BDUs, let's go back to the sharp khaki dress uniform, looks a LOT better than those butt ugly dress greens.  

Iceman

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2004, 06:01:24 pm »
That'll change. Guaranteed. Some General will figure it's wayy too hot and do it anyways, hence making it accepted. Hell, I would.  

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2004, 06:34:30 pm »
I also agre that we need more thanone 'universal' color for the field uniforms. THough at least the Army was smart enough to realize that of all the 'universal' colors, gray blends in the best everywhere.

And I hate the green Class-A's too, both the cut and the color- they look like a green Luftwaffe uniform!. Wish that we could go back to green fatigues and khaki uniforms for 'everyday' wear and have BDU's just for in the field.

And I'm hoping that ya'll are right about the sleeves- it was 92 at drill this week andthe AC's went out while we were gone!

SL-Punisher

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2004, 07:41:09 pm »
Quote:


They need to ask some of the "don't ask; don't tell" guys in their ranks how it looks!

 




Don't...it's a trap!

Iceman

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2004, 07:54:06 pm »
You never know how hot they are until you wear them though. It might be nice and cool on the inside.  

Merlinfmct87

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2004, 10:14:42 pm »
Looks nice...I'd love to see how it works.

And whoever said you can't roll up sleeves has never stepped outside his Air Conditioned desk. What a dope.

Merlin  

Rat_Boy

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #88 on: June 15, 2004, 10:32:30 pm »
Dear Lord, Dr. Evil is now designing outfits for the DoD!

The_Joker

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2004, 01:29:18 am »
Am I the only one that thinks velcro closures are a bad thing?  First of all, Velcro wears out, second, it could be an extreme hindrance to noise control because even the most stealthy soldier could get snagged on a branch or something.  The button wouldn't come undone, but velcro would with a loud noise to boot.  

Sethan

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2004, 01:54:25 am »
Quote:

Am I the only one that thinks velcro closures are a bad thing?  First of all, Velcro wears out, second, it could be an extreme hindrance to noise control because even the most stealthy soldier could get snagged on a branch or something.  The button wouldn't come undone, but velcro would with a loud noise to boot.  




I was thinking much the same thing when I read that - though I was thinking more of needing to get into that pocket while under cover.

manitoba

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2004, 02:21:08 am »
the velco wouldnt be a bad idea if the sewn the sides done.  no i am not army, but i was navy airdale who worked on aircraft carriers and thats how we had our pockets the werent completely sewn shut. that way they couldnt be ripped open by trees or anything.  maybe the gray scales wont be to bad.  i personally dont care for it. i like the desert fatigues myself. but thats just an opinion of an ex squid so i am sure u grunts probably wont take to much of it. and i dont like the idea of zippers period. sorry to easy to break or get stuck.    and it would be funny to see them in cali as i went to boot there in san diego during july and august we had 13 red flag days.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by manitoba »

Clark Kent

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #92 on: June 16, 2004, 03:13:52 am »
Quote:

You never know how hot they are until you wear them though. It might be nice and cool on the inside.  




Been there, and it bites, majorly.  They were barely tolerable when I was in Ft jackson through the summer for basic, and I do mean barely.  the only way I got through that summer was by going through 3 pair of underwear and three t- shrts a day in order to cope with the excess sweating.  
Once I was fuil time regular army, they became unbearable, since you are pretty much required tio starch the damn things so badly they nearly stand up on their own.  This is a very bad thing, since they will not breath at all and the heat just collects in them making them like a sauna.  I was in just after they said no rolling up the sleeves, and by then they had also gotten to the point where they wouldn't let us take the BDU tops off when working in the heat.  Whoever came up with the idea of never tyaking the BDU tops off or not rolling up the sleeves is some pencil pushing pansy who either hasn't been out working in the heat in decades, or, most likely, doesn't know what it's like to be out in the heat on those damn things.

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

Villa64

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #93 on: June 16, 2004, 05:09:51 pm »
The new uniform looks like it has alot in common with the ABDU.   The front opening (zipper/velcro)  looks identical.  The velcro on that opening wears out over time.  The velcro on the pockets is also a common factor, and yes, they do SCRREETCH! when you open them.  The Mao collar may be only when it is put up.  The collar in the pic looks like an ABDU when it is raised, and there is a velcro fastener to keep it up there.  Normally worn with the collar down, and it looks like a normal BDU.    I wonder if the pants cargo pockets are also the same.  On the ABDU the opening is in the front, so it points up when you are sitting down.  I think gray is a good idea, its the only common color around.  As for multiple uniform types, the Army has a problem outfitting everyone with proper uniforms whenever we go somewhere new, so going for a common uniform type aint a bad idea, considering that they are trying to outfit hundreds of thousands of soldiers in a short time.  I read somewhere that the old DBDU (not DCU) was designed with Soviet Asia in mind, not the Mideast. Go figure.

Regards
Villa

ferretlxix

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #94 on: June 16, 2004, 06:06:33 pm »
I like the Marines uniforms better.  Right now the new primary Navy Uniforms are in the testing phase and hopefully we'll get to see what it looks like and hopefully, I can finally decide to invest to getting my sea bag updated ( I don't want to spend too much money on uniforms when new items are just around the corner).

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #95 on: June 16, 2004, 06:54:17 pm »
ferret,

Spend money on uniforms... LOL, I thought that that was a perq of being in the ranks- you don't have to buy clothes like the guys who go to Knife and Fork School. I'll just let the Sovreign State of Alabama pay for my 4 pair when they come out.

Villa,

I got a couple of looks at the ABDUs in Iraq (never saw anyon a cute female, so I didn't look too hard, I'll admit) but I think that it's a pretty good design. I too take issue on the velcro on the pockets... buttons don't make noise. Velcro is great for guys driving a desk but not for troops in the field. The pockets on the front of the pants will make getting into them easier, but wil make keeping bulky items in them more difficult and uncomfortable, IMHO. Gray is sort of the 'go anywhere' color, but the Army does need to come up with a more specific scheme for troops to be deploied to a certian theater for long periods of time, good enough generally is till you have someone spot you and need to loose them after they know what to look for. Remember this is not designed to hide in a specific area, but a compromise for all areas. The Marines have 2 or 3 varriations on their new fatigues based on theater (green-based, tan-based and white-based(?))- the Army needs something similar.

My least favorite thing is the no-shine boot... I'll miss getting my boots blingin' for formation.

Edit: I also find it kinda funny that the U.S. Army is now wearing gray... us Southrons in the National Guard are going to have a field day with this! I'll have to get Third National and Alabama flags for the arm and a C.S. Army strip printed out for the first drill we wear them... my Lt. (from Indiania) would have a fit, but the NCO's would love it!!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 06:59:12 pm by J. Carney »

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #96 on: June 16, 2004, 07:39:27 pm »
Good point Carney, you think the Army will name the new color scheme "Confederate Grey?"    

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #97 on: June 16, 2004, 07:42:47 pm »
Somehow I think that the Pentagon would frown on that as an 'offical term,' but then again the best general officers almost always come from the South!

Sethan

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #98 on: June 16, 2004, 07:54:58 pm »
At least when I was in, enlisted had to buy their uniforms too.  The first set were issued, but the cost was deducted from your pay.

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #99 on: June 16, 2004, 07:57:11 pm »
Might take it out of my check, but I haven't noticed any money going out... and drill checks don't leave you much room to miss it. As a PFC, I was knocking back a whopping $110 a drill weekend. That wouldn't even buy me 2 sets of uniforms!!!

Villa64

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #100 on: June 16, 2004, 10:12:20 pm »
Here's a link with some more info.

 http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2004616.asp http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2004616.asp

I saw more similarities to the ABDU, including the calf pockets and lower leg closure ties.  Personally,  I think zippers are a better solution than velcro.  Buttons work too.

As for the color, I think the Army may be giving in to reality here.  I went to the desert twice, and both times CIF couldnt get us the right uniforms in time, or in correct quantity (in '90 and '03).  In '91, the rumor went around that the Rep. Guard was on the lookout for the 'elite forces' from Germany that could be identified by their 'elite green uniforms'.  BS... we were wearing woodland pattern BDU's.  All the remf's were wearing DBDU.  I suspect the 'elite forces' rumor was started by someone up at division who was trying to cover their ass for not being able to get us desert uniforms.  Ironsides, baby!

Regards
Villa

(I dont get the URL function, I hope the link shows up!)  

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #101 on: June 16, 2004, 10:26:47 pm »
LOL...

Yeah, I heard the Desert Storm stories about the 'elite troops' in their green uniforms- like my National Guard MP unit.

We almost went in greens this time.

Now all we have to do is get our fearless leaders to re-adopt full-size rank on the sleeves like in the old days so as you can tell the difference between a First Sergent and a Command Sergent Major after dark at a distance greater than a foot up your butt.

Edit: I also noticed the spaces for intrigal elbow and knee pads, for the soldier's comfort when the Army makes him 'assume the position."

BOHICA!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2004, 10:28:47 pm by J. Carney »

manitoba

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #102 on: June 16, 2004, 11:43:31 pm »
dont they still have uniform allowences, they did when i was in.
 

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #103 on: June 16, 2004, 11:56:32 pm »
  I think it's just the old-timers got their brains fried from all that unauthorized drug testing that the military got by with during their tours.

So far as I'm aware, active duty are allowed a pair of boots and 2 suits each of summer and winter BDU's to replace worn or damaged uniforms. In the Guard I would get half that allowance, the boots and one of each type of uniform, though my unit only orders summer-weight BDU's; you don't wear out the cold-weather ones in Alabama... you just get too fat for them.

That is all IIRC, I'll have to ask to be sure.

Hilton

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #104 on: June 17, 2004, 09:15:42 am »
Here is the new "test" Air Force utility uniform

 

 

 

Notice the grey "no polish" boot? Don't know if I like it. I'll wait to see it in person.
Hilton  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Hilton »

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #105 on: June 17, 2004, 12:51:49 pm »
I thought this was the new boot approved for the Air Force's BDU's
 

I actually like the gray boot better than the tan ones we are getting. I'd wear it...  I just wish that we'd wise up and return to putting the full-size rank on our sleeves like ya'll do instead of the 'little black micro-rank' (tm) that the Army isin love with.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by J. Carney »

Hilton

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #106 on: June 17, 2004, 02:00:09 pm »
Har. Har. But you know what, it might look good on some female airmen. Maybe with some BDU's cut off real high. Maybe I could require my future assistant to wear them! LOL!

What micro-rank are you talking about???  

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #107 on: June 17, 2004, 02:19:20 pm »
Army rank for BDU's are placed on the collar, are black and are about the size of a single award ribbon  (and that's for E-6 and above, my E-4 rank is about 1/2" tall!). If you are walking around a post where you don't know all the people, it's pretty easy to misidentify someone- particularly those of a higher rank.

Basically, our rank on BDU's is as small as the slip-on rank you guys put on the tabs of your Gor-Tex. In bad lighting, you have to rely more on lines on the face than stripes on the collar to tell a person's rank.

And sorry about the boot thing... I like the idea behind an individualistic uniform for all branches, but I saw a Brigadeer in one of the new blue uniforms and had to hurt myself badly niot to laugh as I marvled at their ability to blend in with the folage in Alabama. In Colorado's spruce forrests, they ould work great, but not in pines.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by J. Carney »

Stormbringer

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #108 on: June 17, 2004, 04:31:16 pm »
Last one I recieved was S380.00 I think.

Tremok

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #109 on: June 17, 2004, 05:56:45 pm »
Quote:

I got a couple of looks at the ABDUs in Iraq (never saw anyon a cute female, so I didn't look too hard, I'll admit) but I think that it's a pretty good design. I too take issue on the velcro on the pockets... buttons don't make noise. Velcro is great for guys driving a desk but not for troops in the field.




Didn't the Brits come up with noiseless velcro a while back?

So, let's take a good look at this uniform:

 

Hmm. Is the army trying to make it's soliders as unintimidating as possible? Is the goal to get the enemy to busy laughing at them to shoot at them? To make the enemy believe no one in such a silly uniform could possibly be a threat? Nice camel excrete colored boats, by the way. I note how much better the vest blends in.

So the Army, the Air Force, and the Marines are working on or have new uniforms. The Navy is next in line for new threads, I suppose. Or are they perfectly happy with their spiffy whites?  

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tremok »

Stormbringer

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #110 on: June 17, 2004, 06:09:38 pm »
Beleive it or not the random digitized pattern actually fools the eye a lot better than the old ones when in the environment they are intended for. If the soldier was in the woods you would play hades trying to spot him. I've seen this stuff demonstrated forthe marimes when they fielded thier version of it. It looks funny in the open. In the woods its not quite so funny anymore particularly forthe enemy.

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #111 on: June 17, 2004, 06:14:00 pm »
Never saw said noisless velcro on thier uniforms... only buttons. And I could look at the Brit uniforms in detail, cause though their girls were ugly as sin, the Highlanders and Royal Irish had a couple of hotties around   .

The gray will blend in better in the woods- or desert, for that matter- than it does in that picture. Remember, you don't try to hide in an open field! I'm not happy about the color and would haveprefered a little more green in it, but gray hides pretty well. I hunt in gray coveralls and hve sat quietly in a thicket while my friends walked by several times... and we are all hunters and most of us are in the Guard. Gray works, but I think a greener shade would work better.

The boots I do take issue with- the gray onesHilton showed above look like they would work infinately better, both practicaly and with the uniform.

Dash Jones

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #112 on: June 17, 2004, 06:50:41 pm »
I don't know, the not having to polish the boot sounds like a good idea to me.  I'm certain the military holds up the polish on their boots higher than my dad.  My dad used to offer me some money for polishing his boots, and he nigh wanted to see a reflection in them...didn't take me long to realize the effort wasn't worth the money, and he was better suited to going to others for polishing his boots and shoes.

If I had to keep that type of shine up on BDUs, I think it would stink to wear such things.  Plus, what practicality would having polished boots be in the field?

Kind of voids the purpose of a BDU...plus...isn't shoe polish flammable?

Stormbringer

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #113 on: June 17, 2004, 06:59:32 pm »
In the garrison environment it is a discipline marker. In the field it keeps them from rotting and keeps then resistant to water . but in the fieldthey aren't required to be spit shinned just kiwied and brushed. The reg actually says evenly shined. Tradition has the standard much higherthan the regulation requires.  

J. Carney

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #114 on: June 17, 2004, 07:28:30 pm »
Yeah, Dash... Kiwi is flamable; but it is also waterproof, which is why you really polish the boots, it keeps trhe leather supple, prevents cracking and keeps it waterproof.

And Storm is on the money when he says that the high-polish shines are more a matter of pride than regulations. In fact, for the first 8 weeks of MP training, you are forbiden from spit-shining boots because you are not a soldier yet and you are not allowed to do anything that makes you look any better than the ate-up, rag-bag, [bleep]ed-up as a soup-sandwich civilian in training that you are.

That's just one of the ways soldiers in a garrison enviroment say "I'm a pro." I know when my unit is in garrison for our summer camp (which is rare) everyone going out in patrol cars brings an extra starched pair of BDU's an polished boots with them in the trunk 'for emergencies'. That way, if they get into a scuffle, or even if the humidity just kills the starch job on their uniforms, they can still look as fresh and crisp for a call at the end of thier shift as one at the begining.

Though it is tough on the washing machine... and the iron.

Byzantine

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Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #115 on: June 18, 2004, 12:22:14 am »
Starch in clothing:
1. the invention of a sadisitc mastermind?
or
2. divine punishment for the sins of the human race?

you tell me.

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: Army gets new uniform
« Reply #116 on: June 18, 2004, 12:28:35 am »
I vote the invention of a sadistic mastermind...

punishment for sins is just that, punishment... something that teaches a lesson.

Requiring people to starch is just pure outright meanness!