Topic: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!  (Read 5260 times)

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nx_adam_1701

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2004, 07:45:28 pm »
Thanks lol, it wouldnt be so much of a big deal, in my opinion, if the game was more modable than it is now, Im not complaining, because it is much better than it was before, but you still cant create weapons, or atleast copy them, change the damage, stuff, assign a texture and a sound and thats it, lol sounds to good to be true, that way everyone could have the TNG and there SFB all in one, shoot I dont care if the romulans or klingons have phasers, put them on, but make it green, different sound, than its ok, but its like giving everybody the same stuff over and over, no variety, i believe who ever created SFB didnt intended it to be like this, maybe its simplier to have everyone call all phaser beams phasers, but not all alien empires have the same weapons, swapping them back and forth, this is why I think so many people beef about SFB, they think its totally not like the TV show ans stuff, I bet if they were allowed to do it SFB, the klingons would have loads of kooler weapons instead of having the same old Disruptors and photons, and BTW the only episode in where a klingon fire a photon was in TMP movies, I never saw one do it after that in the series, only pulse disruptors, I hope you SFB fans do get it your way in the future, I would love to see how it works out

adam out

nx_adam_1701

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2004, 07:46:36 pm »
 

Crimmy

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2004, 07:52:58 pm »
Quote:

yadda, yadda

 Its fun to bash SFB players cause they take this so seriously  Plus I think just as many people play SFC3 as OP. They just don't post here. I believe that SFC3 players are made up of a younger crowd who tend to just download ships/mods and play. They still realize there playing a game  The SFB base is older, made up of people that like to play a complicated game, whoop someones azz, then come here and brag about it. The SFB fan thinks that SFB isbased on reality  

Just funning here- maybe we can somehow find something in common-wait I know StarTrek.  




Yes...a common interest in trek is a great baseline...

And if your first post had been in this tone....I'm sure peeps wouldnt have jumped all over it  

The demographics for 1,2, and OP are different than 3.....but then that was part of the goal...to reach a different crowd....

New blood is never a bad thing as far as revenue is concerned...as far as community is concerned...it can be a mixed bag....

To clarify...ALL trek is fantasy based.....no one part is any more "real" than any other part...

Hard core Trek fans cant even agree to what "canon" even is....

The Trek universe is comprised of....

The pilot
The Original Series
The Motion Pictures
The Next Generation
Deep Spase 9
VOYager
ENTerprise
The animated series
The novel series
The comics series
The console game realm
The PC realm

AND I will argue come hell or high water...Star Fleet Battles

PLUS I believe there was an obscure spin off having to do with the Starfleet academy

There are Trek fans of each.....and some of most.....BUT extremely rare is the fan of ALL....

The "purist" claims "If it wasnt shown in TOS or on film or DIRECTLY approved by Gene....its not "canon"

But the Trek purist is in denial.....

Even the "canon" Trek universe (if you accept the purists definition) is not consistant...and often...contradicts itself...

IMHO....ANYTHING either blessed or endorsed by Paramount is canon...because Paramount OWNS the intellectual property....and YES...that means ANYTHING Trek is canon...including SFC...and because SFC is 90% SFB..AND approved by Paramount...it is ALSO "canon"

Again...It's simply a fool's arguement to claim that one part of this fantasy universe is "more real" than any other part...because it's ALL fantasy....

But poking another type of fan with a stick and claiming superiority is the surest way to start a flame war...on ANY trek fan forum....


   

EmeraldEdge

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2004, 08:38:06 pm »
Quote:

if the game was more modable than it is now, Im not complaining, because it is much better than it was before, but you still cant create weapons, or atleast copy them, change the damage, stuff, assign a texture and a sound and thats it, lol sounds to good to be true, that way everyone could have the TNG and there SFB all in one




You know, I remember way back when, there were a number of "construction set" games.  I think EA made one called the "Adventure Construction Set" or something like that where it gave all the tools to make an RPG, you made your own map, placed NPC's gave them text, placed items, etc.  

I wonder how it would sell, if they did the same with an SFC style engine (heck, or any engine, I'd play online campaigns with a 3d movement engine, as long as you can effect the universe and stuff).  Fleet Command Construction Set or something.  Make everything moddable.  Everything would have tags so you could change the texture, sound effect, damage/function, and so forth.  Then they could just tack on a quickie universe if they wanted to (I think a few of the old ones came with a small campaign).

The beauty would be that they would really open things up for mods.  I mean if you went out and bought the game, and folks made the mods you could end up buying many games for the price of one.  I mean folks building a pirate universe (tall ships), modern navy, space, and maybe even Trek.  Heck, sounds good to me, if the graphics and tools were good enough.  It would have to have an online mode (notice the Battlefield games are pretty much only online and still popular.  I think a single player mode would be good though, so people could download custom campaigns and stuff to augment the experience, especially if they aren't the multiplayer sort).

Anyhow, it's something cool to think about anyway.   Maybe somebody could do something with their engine.  I know the concept would interest a whole lot of folks around here (and I'm sure around a few other places as well).  

Mr. Hypergol

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2004, 08:44:50 pm »
 
Quote:

 The SFB base is older, made up of people that like to play a complicated game




Well I'm 36 today and I learned SFB when I was about 14 years old.  Most of today's SFB fans also learned the game and loved it at a young age.

So are you saying that the attention span of today's youth is too short to focus on anything that requires thought?  Unfortunately you might be right.  More evidence of the "instant gratification" mentality.

Quote:

 The SFB fan thinks that SFB is based on reality




Funny you should say this.

The "realism" of SFB is what I like most about the game.  So much thought has gone into the most minute details of the game that it FEELS real even though it's complete fiction.  As an engineer "in real life" I admire this greatly.  The design of the game is magnificent.

I enjoy feeling like a REAL starship captain when I play SFB.  It's a challenge,...... and most of all it's FUN.

Isn't escaping reality the goal of great entertainment?

By the way I don't really feel insulted by any of your previous comments.  I just enjoy a good debate about things I really enjoy.

I really enjoy SFB and SFC.

     

Merlinfmct87

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2004, 10:19:16 pm »
FYI, many "Hard SF" readers consiter Star Trek to be a bunch of fanciful junk in no way influenced by the laws of physics.

I respond to this outlook the same way Sybock does...After all, they said the Sound Barrier would never be broken...look where THAT idea ended up .  

Merlinfmct87

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2004, 10:28:26 pm »
P.S. Thank you for starting this thread..."Hope is kindled" as one of my favorite movies says...

Merlin  

Mr. Hypergol

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Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2004, 10:05:53 pm »
I thought I would counter Red Green's bogus thread "Why there will never be an SFC4".

It's baffling why Red Green would slam SFB fans since they are mostly the only one's left supporting the SFC series and even bothering to post here.

I think SFC4 could happen if the right publisher came along and if the liscense was partitioned properly to allow the much mentioned "all eras" game that could cover the entire history of starships, wars, races, etc. in the Trek Universe.

I would like a game that took OP and expanded on that. Adding both Pre-TOS, and TNG+ eras. With the combat system based on SFB and then extrapolated into the earlier and later eras so that it makes sense relative to the SFB based system.

David Ferrell is right when he says that OP is the pinnicle of SFC. That game is now near perfect. With Firesoul's and others mods, the game is very close to fulfilling my dreams. The only thing I would want now is Tholians and Andros along with an F&E based strategic campaign generator. I envision a game like the Total War series with equally deep strategic as well as tactical gameplay.

To show you why you should never count a game series out I give you the example of another game I love that looked like it was dead for good......the Starsiege/Earthsiege series. I loved the Mecha based Starsiege (which spawned the Tribes series) and eagerly awaited Starsiege 2. Unfortunately the 3rd game in the Earthsiege series bombed commercially....mostly because it could not compete with Mechwarrior in a saturated Mecha genre. This ment that it was all but sure there would not be a Starsiege 2.

In spite of this, Starsiege maintained a rabid, if tiny, fanbase that would not give up on a sequel, just like SFC fans have not given up on SFC4. Fortunately the publisher Sierra, who aquired the rights to Starsiege when they bought Dynamics, kept a Starsiege forum going long after it looked like the game series was history. That forum is where the rabid fans continued to froth at the mouth for almost the last 5 years.

Well low and behold, I was reading my PC gamer mag a few weeks ago and what do my eyes see but an article by the title of "Starsiege Lives". "Whoa", I said to myself. Apparently the Sierra company has agreed to support the series through retail marketing of a FAN-made sequel to Starsiege called Starsiege 2845. Sierra will not pay development costs but still plans to sell the game retail from what I understand. A group of fans with the skills needed to make a Starsiege sequel will make the game free of cost for Sierra, and Sierra still gets to make money off it. Here's the website for Starsiege 2845:

http://www.mechnex.net/

Needless to say I'm pumped about this.

My point with this story however is to get us thinking about what is possible in the future for the sfc series given the fact of it's own rabid fan base and modding community's skills. All it would take for an SFC4 is the right publisher and a creative business arrangement.  Perhaps Amarillo Design Bureau will eventually wear Paramount down as Star Trek enters a slow period?  Who knows what could happen?

We will have to wait and see what happens.....it might take 5 years like Starsiege did.......it could take more. But hey, SFC is not out of the picture yet in my view.

You have SFB fans mostly to thank for that............Red Green.  
     

The_Infiltrator

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2004, 10:27:02 pm »
Would you like to add anything else to my list hyper? I don't really want to think about it too much

Age

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2004, 11:05:02 pm »
  The only thing I would like to see in midddle to advanced eras are Klingon ships cloaking and firing photons and a little more canon in the game like what oyu see in the TV and Movies.The Klingons and Romulans having disruptors instead of phasers.The Romulans can keep their plasma.
 That  is all I have to say for now.  

NannerSlug

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2004, 11:15:40 pm »
you can never have tmp with sfb based rules. for that matter sfb is not trek. period. start with the primary weapons and work your way down from there.

does that mean there cannot be another sfb game? of course not. i would in fact encourage the marketing department to call it what it is instead of trying to wrap it up in a star trek wrapper.

IKV Nemesis D7L

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2004, 02:16:23 am »
Quote:

  The only thing I would like to see in midddle to advanced eras are Klingon ships cloaking and firing photons and a little more canon in the game like what oyu see in the TV and Movies.The Klingons and Romulans having disruptors instead of phasers.The Romulans can keep their plasma.
 That  is all I have to say for now.  




Oddly enough I was watching some of the 3rd season TNG during the weekend and a Klingon vessel was firing Phasers (as stated by Enterprise bridge crew).  What episode I don't recall.    

FPF_TraceyG

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2004, 02:31:47 am »
Quote:

you can never have tmp with sfb based rules. for that matter sfb is not trek. period. start with the primary weapons and work your way down from there.

does that mean there cannot be another sfb game? of course not. i would in fact encourage the marketing department to call it what it is instead of trying to wrap it up in a star trek wrapper.  




If I can elaborate on this... SFB 'was' Star Trek TOS canon. It began as a fledgling 'pocket' game that had all of two ships in it, a Fed CA and a Klingon D7. It then expanded, and doing so, remained within TOS cannon adding Romulans, Gorn and Kzin. As it expanded, however, what was not cannon, or rather, details not supplied within the series were added and embellished. For example, we never actually saw a Gorn ship in TOS, we have no idea what weapons it used.

Much of SFB, then, whilst attempting to stick to cannon material, is then conjectural onwards. Later, when Paramount decided it didnt like ADB, it refused any further Trek licensing and almost stopped ADB from ever publishing again.

SFBs since then has become decidedly non-Trek purely because its not allowed to publish any Trek material. I'm sure this is not a choice ADB like at all. Fasa did have a license also, and di publish some TMP stuff, but it was never a game that had the same depth, development or following that SFBs had.

ADB, on the other hand, have never actually given permission to use the name SFB in a computer game either, wanting also to hang onto the meagre copyright it managed to retain from its original license.

Politics, thats all we have here. Remove that, and SFBs would be a purely Trek game, and it would stretch from TOS to TNG.

nx_adam_1701

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2004, 02:46:33 am »
I wonder what TNG would of become if they were allowed to continue, or some how worked together, Its still hard for me the see phasers on everybody, lol, I dont know why, maybe its because I grew up with TNG and Voy, and DS9, but hey its kool to think about it, does anyone noe that episode in where a Klink fires phasers, I would love to find out about it, thx


adam out

DH123

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2004, 08:27:20 am »
Quote:

you can never have tmp with sfb based rules. for that matter sfb is not trek. period. start with the primary weapons and work your way down from there.

 




Then why is one of the Federation CX ships in Module X1 "NCC-1701-A USS Enterprise"    

NannerSlug

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2004, 09:32:53 am »
the A model is not an x-ship. SFB is roughly based on trek cannon. klingons have always had disruptors (shooting that green stuff at the enterprise) and the Enterprise has always shot phasers and photons back.  klingons and romulans never had phasers (let alone phaser 1s, 2s and 3s).

this is not a bad thing. i am simply making the distinction between the two sfb is in its own right somthing seperate. this is a major cause (at least for me) of a lot of grief. that is one thing that sfc3 does have going for it is that at least its weapons are very close to trek.

again, that is not saying that one has a game play advantage over the other. simply that they are different.

Merlinfmct87

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2004, 09:33:41 am »
Quote:

Quote:

you can never have tmp with sfb based rules. for that matter sfb is not trek. period. start with the primary weapons and work your way down from there.

 




Then why is one of the Federation CX ships in Module X1 "NCC-1701-A USS Enterprise"      



Bingo Bango Bongo.

See here: SmileyLich's SFB Page

GASP!

It's SFB for TNG!

And I don't like the idea of taking phaser's from the Klingons. Not at all. Phaser's are wayy too effecient with their damage, you take away the phasers and give them dizzys  the klingons will never stop being whipped. The energy drain alone would kill them.    

J. Carney

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2004, 10:40:27 am »
Nanner

The 'phaser's' used by the Klingons and Romulans might not be actual 'pahsers.'

Note that the Andromedians also have 'phasers,' though it says in their R-section that they are mearly 'beam weapons equivelent to phaser-2's.'

Perhaps the weapons that the other races use are similar to the phasers that the Federation used and they just began to be called phasers due to similar preformance.

And if I'm a Rom with a Plasma-R hot in the tube, you canbet I'm going to save my phasers to knock out any WW's that you kick out   !

Crimmy

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2004, 10:56:33 am »
Quote:

you can never have tmp with sfb based rules.




As was pointed out......YES...you can.


Quote:

 for that matter sfb is not trek. period.




YES it is....and it became so "offiicialy" when Paramount gave it's blessing for the creation of SFC using the SFB ruleset

Quoted from the damn box

Star trek Starfleet Command

 Using data from the BEST selling strategy board game,Star Fleet Battles, Starfleet Command puts you in the captians chair for the most amazing real-time space combat experience ever created.

 Finally, a Starship Naval game worthy of the name STAR TREK

 Inspired by Star Fleet Battles

BTW....I STILL have my beta disk for SFC3 loaded....and the splash screen specificlly credits ADB...I'll have to re-install the stock game to see it it also credits ADB.....but I'm pretty sure it does....because SFC3 STILL contains elements of the first 3 games....

Quote:

 start with the primary weapons and work your way down from there.




Looks over the "offically endorsed"  STAR TREK games sitting on my shelf...looks over SFB material....

Damn.....From the primary weapons on down....it's Trek...AND...it's SFB....

Quote:

does that mean there cannot be another sfb game? of course not.




One can only hope....and beg....and hope...and beg...and flash my check book....and bug Erik...and bug Harry Lang....and beg....and flash my check book again...etc etc..ad infinitum...

Quote:

 i would in fact encourage the marketing department to call it what it is instead of trying to wrap it up in a star trek wrapper.  




Looks at sales of the first three games...looks at the clear credit to SFB on the boxes....Is VERY glad Nanner was in NO WAY connected to marketing these games.

Could you please...for the love of god...curb you obvious disdain for BOTH ,Best selling Taldren products ,AND Taldren gaming fans who prefer the games based on the SFB ruleset.

You held the view IN PUBLIC for quite a while that people didnt play OP because of politics...when in fact you KNEW damn well it was because of campaign killing bugs...and since said bugs have been fixed ...OP IS ALL WE PLAY...

And after years...it's getting really old.

If for no other reason....do it because your a moderator...and you are disrespecting a LARGE percentage  of faithful  Taldren customers IN PUBLIC.


     
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Crimmy »

NannerSlug

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Re: Why there could be an SFC4!! Look at Starsiege 2845!!!
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2004, 11:10:24 am »
*yawn*
 
my "disdain" is for the arrogance of *some* indiivduals and the slapping down anyone who expresses opposition to those ideas.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by NannerSlug »