Topic: Buying a Car  (Read 2153 times)

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Clark Kent

  • Guest
Buying a Car
« on: May 24, 2004, 01:29:46 pm »
A friend just popinted this out to me.  I'm not done reading this, and it's very long, which is why I haven't posted the text, but it seems like a very worthwhile read:
http://aolsvc.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

CK

P.S.  I like latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2004, 03:10:06 pm »
Great post Clark. As an ex-auto tech I can tell you from first hand experience that most (I say most, not all) dealers and auto techs are nothing but sharks wanting to gouge their customers yet try to make it look like they are getting a great deal. I can sympathize with that Japanese auto dealer, they seem to be much more professional than their American made auto sales counterparts. I have seen too many salespeople use pressure tactics and they do not know jack about the car they are selling. Kind of makes you wonder...

Even though Leda and I are divorced we are still friends, and this year when the new hybrid Camry is released (at least 40 m.p.g. in the city) I will go with her to New Mexico (out of radius of Gulf States Toyota which is the middleman between Toyota and Toyota dealers in the south from Florida to Texas, average profit off each unit sold to a dealer? 1k! And YOU pay for it!) and negotiate a deal on one since the 03 Camry is almost paid in full and she can sell it on her own at her price, not some stupid trade in. Virginia and I will be looking at the new hybrid Highlander in Jan 05 when it is released. It would be a Godsend considering the travel between Mexico and Texas and elsewhere (270 h.p. from a V6! over 600 miles a tankful!). Gas is not going to go down much IMO, even if Iraq gets squared away, the energy companies have bufued us once, and they will do it again and again, it's their greedy nature.

Again, great post and I hope that all forum members read and print this article for future reference.

I hope that you are ok Clark, it seems that you are busy doing research, which is a good thing.    

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2004, 03:17:09 pm »
I might also add that Toyota does not really care about the monthly payment scheme, when the 03 Camry was purchased, it was on a 0 percent down 3 year contract. Of course it helps to have at least 5k so your monthly payments do not kill you!    

CaptStumpy

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2004, 04:24:33 pm »
Here is a great site I've used to help prepare for my last two new car buying experiences. If you are going a dealership for any vehicle, new or used you owe it to yourself to study it thoroughly.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

Over the years I have worked to perfect my car buying techniques taught to me by my father who used to sell cars himself in the 1950s and then worked for years as an auto insurance adjuster/investigator. My wife and I tag team the salesmen and work them over, sometimes to a lather. One time when we picked up our new car I asked the salesman if he wanted me to send him referrences and he actually said "From you? No way!" That was the same guy that actually said that I was taking food out of his childrens mouth.

Some of rules of thumb to get a better deal.

Stumpy's laws of car buying from a Dealer.

READ EVERYTHING  (and understand it, bring a calculator)

Sell your old car yourself.  You'll make much more than trading it in and it takes out another way that the salesman can screw you. One less thing to negotiate.

Do your research. You need to find out how much they are paying for the vehicle or damn close to it in order to make an offer that is reasonable to you and allows the dealer a fair profit. It's OK for them to make money but not rip you off. Have them take off BS mark-up items like "Dealer Prep", "Advertising Fee" etc.

READ EVERYTHING

If you have to finance , what they offer at the dealer is not always the best you can do especially if your credit is poor. Again, do your research. If necessary find your own financing. Also you've eliminated yet another way they can screw you by playing with the numbers.

Watch for dealer incentives  (rebates) and manufacturer financing. Be aware that the the dealer may be getting manufacturer kickbacks and remember to include this to lower your offer.

READ EVERYTHING

Don't impulse buy Test drive and make your car decision BEFORE going in to negotiate. Make sure you know exactly what car you want, and have already taken into account the costs of options.

Fully testdrive (including freeway miles) the same vehicle that you are purchasing and do not let them switch vehicles. Compare VINs if necessary.

READ EVERYTHING

Don't buy options you don't need. And don't let them talk you into it. Do you really need extended warrantees, rustproofing (If you must have it check a local body shop to do it) Also don't buy dealer accessories, those things can be found for much cheaper and often way better quality somewhere else. (One time after I had negotiated a deal, I came to pick up the car and noticed they had added mudflaps.$250 mudflaps at that. I told them to take them off and then they tried to charge me for the labor to take them off. I told them "go get a screwdriver and I'll do it." They finally removed them.)

Don't fall in love with any car . There are other cars and other dealers. No matter how long it takes, and how much time you've blown be prepared to walk at any time if they can't be reasonable. Believe me, you walk after two hours of negotiating the salesmans going to be much more pissed off than you are. You have ALL the power here. The salesman and the dealer have no power if you don't give it to them. Don't forget that.

Try to stay away from overly popular, trendy or rare vehicles to get the best prices.

Oh did I mention  READ EVERYTHING ?

Oh one more thing. If you can't afford at least 20% down on the vehicle you shouldn't be buying. 20% down is really the minimum to make sure that if the vehicle is totalled you don't end up being upside down on the loan and owing money on a dead car.


         
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 04:26:37 pm by CaptStumpy »

Khalee

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2004, 04:39:24 pm »
So what your saying is I should read everything  

James_Smith

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2004, 04:48:05 pm »
Quote:

So what your saying is I should read everything  




Either that, or do as I do and buy a car unseen and barely running.  

Clark Kent

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2004, 07:40:14 pm »
When buying my car, I got the old "buy it now" line  but in this particular case he was telling the truth.  I was fresh in the active army, and a group of us got off post to go looking for cars.  An NCO decided he wanted the car i was looking at (had done research, and had limite4d it down to 2-3 types of cars), and I was about to leave and come back when possible to buy the car except this NCO was gonna take it for himself.  I said "what the hay, it's the kind I want, it's comfortable, everythign else fits, get it."  Since then I haven't wanted to let it go.  Piece of advice: when you live in a VERY hot and humid place with LOTS of STEEP hills and such, keep an eye on your transmission.  I went a year or two without even checking the fluid and the trany bit the big one.  Since then, the only major repair I had to do with it is fairly common with this model, and I managed to get a couple more years than normal before this repair was necessary.  The up side has been I've had a car that I've managed to take up and down and around a mountain, and also forded a creek with it, amongst many other, less notable adventures.  

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2004, 08:49:40 pm »
Another Stumpy rule: DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR FLOORMATS!

Wanna sunroof? DO NOT PAY THE DEALER! My salesman at Charles Maund Toyota was a good ole quiet boy, he knew the master techs I worked with and the shop is next door to the dealer. He gave me a secret and the place where they get their sunroofs installed (Toyota does not send Gulf States Toyota cars with sunroofs). The dealer cost? 1200 dollars, the place in Austin where Charles Maund Toyota gets them installed? 700 dollars! Hmmmmmmm, 500 bucks is 500 bucks people, that will buy one badarse stereo for that new car, plus money for dinner out on the town with someone special!    

Being an ex auto tech, I recommend extended warranties on a 20 thousand dollar plus car, especially imports. A tranny will usually last 60k to 100k on a Camry depending on maint and driving, the extended warranty was 900 for 7 yrs/100k, my 92 Camry that got sold recently had the tranny go out when I bought it used, the cost? over 2k easily! Your choice on that option.  

Clark Kent

  • Guest
Buying a Car
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2004, 01:29:46 pm »
A friend just popinted this out to me.  I'm not done reading this, and it's very long, which is why I haven't posted the text, but it seems like a very worthwhile read:
http://aolsvc.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

CK

P.S.  I like latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2004, 03:10:06 pm »
Great post Clark. As an ex-auto tech I can tell you from first hand experience that most (I say most, not all) dealers and auto techs are nothing but sharks wanting to gouge their customers yet try to make it look like they are getting a great deal. I can sympathize with that Japanese auto dealer, they seem to be much more professional than their American made auto sales counterparts. I have seen too many salespeople use pressure tactics and they do not know jack about the car they are selling. Kind of makes you wonder...

Even though Leda and I are divorced we are still friends, and this year when the new hybrid Camry is released (at least 40 m.p.g. in the city) I will go with her to New Mexico (out of radius of Gulf States Toyota which is the middleman between Toyota and Toyota dealers in the south from Florida to Texas, average profit off each unit sold to a dealer? 1k! And YOU pay for it!) and negotiate a deal on one since the 03 Camry is almost paid in full and she can sell it on her own at her price, not some stupid trade in. Virginia and I will be looking at the new hybrid Highlander in Jan 05 when it is released. It would be a Godsend considering the travel between Mexico and Texas and elsewhere (270 h.p. from a V6! over 600 miles a tankful!). Gas is not going to go down much IMO, even if Iraq gets squared away, the energy companies have bufued us once, and they will do it again and again, it's their greedy nature.

Again, great post and I hope that all forum members read and print this article for future reference.

I hope that you are ok Clark, it seems that you are busy doing research, which is a good thing.    

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2004, 03:17:09 pm »
I might also add that Toyota does not really care about the monthly payment scheme, when the 03 Camry was purchased, it was on a 0 percent down 3 year contract. Of course it helps to have at least 5k so your monthly payments do not kill you!    

CaptStumpy

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2004, 04:24:33 pm »
Here is a great site I've used to help prepare for my last two new car buying experiences. If you are going a dealership for any vehicle, new or used you owe it to yourself to study it thoroughly.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

Over the years I have worked to perfect my car buying techniques taught to me by my father who used to sell cars himself in the 1950s and then worked for years as an auto insurance adjuster/investigator. My wife and I tag team the salesmen and work them over, sometimes to a lather. One time when we picked up our new car I asked the salesman if he wanted me to send him referrences and he actually said "From you? No way!" That was the same guy that actually said that I was taking food out of his childrens mouth.

Some of rules of thumb to get a better deal.

Stumpy's laws of car buying from a Dealer.

READ EVERYTHING  (and understand it, bring a calculator)

Sell your old car yourself.  You'll make much more than trading it in and it takes out another way that the salesman can screw you. One less thing to negotiate.

Do your research. You need to find out how much they are paying for the vehicle or damn close to it in order to make an offer that is reasonable to you and allows the dealer a fair profit. It's OK for them to make money but not rip you off. Have them take off BS mark-up items like "Dealer Prep", "Advertising Fee" etc.

READ EVERYTHING

If you have to finance , what they offer at the dealer is not always the best you can do especially if your credit is poor. Again, do your research. If necessary find your own financing. Also you've eliminated yet another way they can screw you by playing with the numbers.

Watch for dealer incentives  (rebates) and manufacturer financing. Be aware that the the dealer may be getting manufacturer kickbacks and remember to include this to lower your offer.

READ EVERYTHING

Don't impulse buy Test drive and make your car decision BEFORE going in to negotiate. Make sure you know exactly what car you want, and have already taken into account the costs of options.

Fully testdrive (including freeway miles) the same vehicle that you are purchasing and do not let them switch vehicles. Compare VINs if necessary.

READ EVERYTHING

Don't buy options you don't need. And don't let them talk you into it. Do you really need extended warrantees, rustproofing (If you must have it check a local body shop to do it) Also don't buy dealer accessories, those things can be found for much cheaper and often way better quality somewhere else. (One time after I had negotiated a deal, I came to pick up the car and noticed they had added mudflaps.$250 mudflaps at that. I told them to take them off and then they tried to charge me for the labor to take them off. I told them "go get a screwdriver and I'll do it." They finally removed them.)

Don't fall in love with any car . There are other cars and other dealers. No matter how long it takes, and how much time you've blown be prepared to walk at any time if they can't be reasonable. Believe me, you walk after two hours of negotiating the salesmans going to be much more pissed off than you are. You have ALL the power here. The salesman and the dealer have no power if you don't give it to them. Don't forget that.

Try to stay away from overly popular, trendy or rare vehicles to get the best prices.

Oh did I mention  READ EVERYTHING ?

Oh one more thing. If you can't afford at least 20% down on the vehicle you shouldn't be buying. 20% down is really the minimum to make sure that if the vehicle is totalled you don't end up being upside down on the loan and owing money on a dead car.


         
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 04:26:37 pm by CaptStumpy »

Khalee

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2004, 04:39:24 pm »
So what your saying is I should read everything  

James_Smith

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2004, 04:48:05 pm »
Quote:

So what your saying is I should read everything  




Either that, or do as I do and buy a car unseen and barely running.  

Clark Kent

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2004, 07:40:14 pm »
When buying my car, I got the old "buy it now" line  but in this particular case he was telling the truth.  I was fresh in the active army, and a group of us got off post to go looking for cars.  An NCO decided he wanted the car i was looking at (had done research, and had limite4d it down to 2-3 types of cars), and I was about to leave and come back when possible to buy the car except this NCO was gonna take it for himself.  I said "what the hay, it's the kind I want, it's comfortable, everythign else fits, get it."  Since then I haven't wanted to let it go.  Piece of advice: when you live in a VERY hot and humid place with LOTS of STEEP hills and such, keep an eye on your transmission.  I went a year or two without even checking the fluid and the trany bit the big one.  Since then, the only major repair I had to do with it is fairly common with this model, and I managed to get a couple more years than normal before this repair was necessary.  The up side has been I've had a car that I've managed to take up and down and around a mountain, and also forded a creek with it, amongst many other, less notable adventures.  

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2004, 08:49:40 pm »
Another Stumpy rule: DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR FLOORMATS!

Wanna sunroof? DO NOT PAY THE DEALER! My salesman at Charles Maund Toyota was a good ole quiet boy, he knew the master techs I worked with and the shop is next door to the dealer. He gave me a secret and the place where they get their sunroofs installed (Toyota does not send Gulf States Toyota cars with sunroofs). The dealer cost? 1200 dollars, the place in Austin where Charles Maund Toyota gets them installed? 700 dollars! Hmmmmmmm, 500 bucks is 500 bucks people, that will buy one badarse stereo for that new car, plus money for dinner out on the town with someone special!    

Being an ex auto tech, I recommend extended warranties on a 20 thousand dollar plus car, especially imports. A tranny will usually last 60k to 100k on a Camry depending on maint and driving, the extended warranty was 900 for 7 yrs/100k, my 92 Camry that got sold recently had the tranny go out when I bought it used, the cost? over 2k easily! Your choice on that option.  

Clark Kent

  • Guest
Buying a Car
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2004, 01:29:46 pm »
A friend just popinted this out to me.  I'm not done reading this, and it's very long, which is why I haven't posted the text, but it seems like a very worthwhile read:
http://aolsvc.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

CK

P.S.  I like latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2004, 03:10:06 pm »
Great post Clark. As an ex-auto tech I can tell you from first hand experience that most (I say most, not all) dealers and auto techs are nothing but sharks wanting to gouge their customers yet try to make it look like they are getting a great deal. I can sympathize with that Japanese auto dealer, they seem to be much more professional than their American made auto sales counterparts. I have seen too many salespeople use pressure tactics and they do not know jack about the car they are selling. Kind of makes you wonder...

Even though Leda and I are divorced we are still friends, and this year when the new hybrid Camry is released (at least 40 m.p.g. in the city) I will go with her to New Mexico (out of radius of Gulf States Toyota which is the middleman between Toyota and Toyota dealers in the south from Florida to Texas, average profit off each unit sold to a dealer? 1k! And YOU pay for it!) and negotiate a deal on one since the 03 Camry is almost paid in full and she can sell it on her own at her price, not some stupid trade in. Virginia and I will be looking at the new hybrid Highlander in Jan 05 when it is released. It would be a Godsend considering the travel between Mexico and Texas and elsewhere (270 h.p. from a V6! over 600 miles a tankful!). Gas is not going to go down much IMO, even if Iraq gets squared away, the energy companies have bufued us once, and they will do it again and again, it's their greedy nature.

Again, great post and I hope that all forum members read and print this article for future reference.

I hope that you are ok Clark, it seems that you are busy doing research, which is a good thing.    

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2004, 03:17:09 pm »
I might also add that Toyota does not really care about the monthly payment scheme, when the 03 Camry was purchased, it was on a 0 percent down 3 year contract. Of course it helps to have at least 5k so your monthly payments do not kill you!    

CaptStumpy

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2004, 04:24:33 pm »
Here is a great site I've used to help prepare for my last two new car buying experiences. If you are going a dealership for any vehicle, new or used you owe it to yourself to study it thoroughly.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

Over the years I have worked to perfect my car buying techniques taught to me by my father who used to sell cars himself in the 1950s and then worked for years as an auto insurance adjuster/investigator. My wife and I tag team the salesmen and work them over, sometimes to a lather. One time when we picked up our new car I asked the salesman if he wanted me to send him referrences and he actually said "From you? No way!" That was the same guy that actually said that I was taking food out of his childrens mouth.

Some of rules of thumb to get a better deal.

Stumpy's laws of car buying from a Dealer.

READ EVERYTHING  (and understand it, bring a calculator)

Sell your old car yourself.  You'll make much more than trading it in and it takes out another way that the salesman can screw you. One less thing to negotiate.

Do your research. You need to find out how much they are paying for the vehicle or damn close to it in order to make an offer that is reasonable to you and allows the dealer a fair profit. It's OK for them to make money but not rip you off. Have them take off BS mark-up items like "Dealer Prep", "Advertising Fee" etc.

READ EVERYTHING

If you have to finance , what they offer at the dealer is not always the best you can do especially if your credit is poor. Again, do your research. If necessary find your own financing. Also you've eliminated yet another way they can screw you by playing with the numbers.

Watch for dealer incentives  (rebates) and manufacturer financing. Be aware that the the dealer may be getting manufacturer kickbacks and remember to include this to lower your offer.

READ EVERYTHING

Don't impulse buy Test drive and make your car decision BEFORE going in to negotiate. Make sure you know exactly what car you want, and have already taken into account the costs of options.

Fully testdrive (including freeway miles) the same vehicle that you are purchasing and do not let them switch vehicles. Compare VINs if necessary.

READ EVERYTHING

Don't buy options you don't need. And don't let them talk you into it. Do you really need extended warrantees, rustproofing (If you must have it check a local body shop to do it) Also don't buy dealer accessories, those things can be found for much cheaper and often way better quality somewhere else. (One time after I had negotiated a deal, I came to pick up the car and noticed they had added mudflaps.$250 mudflaps at that. I told them to take them off and then they tried to charge me for the labor to take them off. I told them "go get a screwdriver and I'll do it." They finally removed them.)

Don't fall in love with any car . There are other cars and other dealers. No matter how long it takes, and how much time you've blown be prepared to walk at any time if they can't be reasonable. Believe me, you walk after two hours of negotiating the salesmans going to be much more pissed off than you are. You have ALL the power here. The salesman and the dealer have no power if you don't give it to them. Don't forget that.

Try to stay away from overly popular, trendy or rare vehicles to get the best prices.

Oh did I mention  READ EVERYTHING ?

Oh one more thing. If you can't afford at least 20% down on the vehicle you shouldn't be buying. 20% down is really the minimum to make sure that if the vehicle is totalled you don't end up being upside down on the loan and owing money on a dead car.


         
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 04:26:37 pm by CaptStumpy »

Khalee

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2004, 04:39:24 pm »
So what your saying is I should read everything  

James_Smith

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2004, 04:48:05 pm »
Quote:

So what your saying is I should read everything  




Either that, or do as I do and buy a car unseen and barely running.  

Clark Kent

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2004, 07:40:14 pm »
When buying my car, I got the old "buy it now" line  but in this particular case he was telling the truth.  I was fresh in the active army, and a group of us got off post to go looking for cars.  An NCO decided he wanted the car i was looking at (had done research, and had limite4d it down to 2-3 types of cars), and I was about to leave and come back when possible to buy the car except this NCO was gonna take it for himself.  I said "what the hay, it's the kind I want, it's comfortable, everythign else fits, get it."  Since then I haven't wanted to let it go.  Piece of advice: when you live in a VERY hot and humid place with LOTS of STEEP hills and such, keep an eye on your transmission.  I went a year or two without even checking the fluid and the trany bit the big one.  Since then, the only major repair I had to do with it is fairly common with this model, and I managed to get a couple more years than normal before this repair was necessary.  The up side has been I've had a car that I've managed to take up and down and around a mountain, and also forded a creek with it, amongst many other, less notable adventures.  

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Buying a Car
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2004, 08:49:40 pm »
Another Stumpy rule: DO NOT PAY EXTRA FOR FLOORMATS!

Wanna sunroof? DO NOT PAY THE DEALER! My salesman at Charles Maund Toyota was a good ole quiet boy, he knew the master techs I worked with and the shop is next door to the dealer. He gave me a secret and the place where they get their sunroofs installed (Toyota does not send Gulf States Toyota cars with sunroofs). The dealer cost? 1200 dollars, the place in Austin where Charles Maund Toyota gets them installed? 700 dollars! Hmmmmmmm, 500 bucks is 500 bucks people, that will buy one badarse stereo for that new car, plus money for dinner out on the town with someone special!    

Being an ex auto tech, I recommend extended warranties on a 20 thousand dollar plus car, especially imports. A tranny will usually last 60k to 100k on a Camry depending on maint and driving, the extended warranty was 900 for 7 yrs/100k, my 92 Camry that got sold recently had the tranny go out when I bought it used, the cost? over 2k easily! Your choice on that option.