Topic: I'm curious

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
The newer meds of which I spoke are not as heavy handed as the old ones. They do not affect as many other areas as the old ones and are more targeted to just the depression. Your doctors may not have tried them yet for various reasons. But you should be aware that they are out there. I've read on the meds issues a bit but my condition is not so severe that I have had to use them. So I can only tell you what I've read in articles. I would not take the old ones but would be less reluctant about the new ones.

Remember the stuff about PT? How it relieves stress and releases serotonin and other endorphines? It's true. Try physical activity and acquire hobbies that require you to move around. Even Gardening. Get out doors get some sun. make your skin produce vitamin D. It helps (getting active outdoors). I know this from experience, though you might feel unmotivated and have to literally force yourself at first. And a horrible thing about depression is how it robs you of motivation and will which are central to getting better.

It robs the will, dampens positive emotions and amplifies the negative ones  and thus it is self sustaining unless you break the cycle.

 

Thanks storm, I've been down that road as well, and it helps, but not as much as it used to.  I'm an avid swimmer (rad: I swim laps, and train in a competetive fashion), lift weights, run some, and go to Shuri Te Karate.  I'm about as active as I can afford right now.  At one point the only thing that kept me going was working out.  I'd work out so hard that I was so exhausted at the end of the day I couldn't help but go to bed, and even then I'd lie in bed for a few hours till I could sleep.  I'm thinking I'll need to go down that road again,

CK

[Stormbringer]

I hesitate to mention it because I'm not sure I'd ever submit to it but as a last resort ECT is still used and it does work but (shudder)... They use it when all meds fail and the person cannot live normal life due to his condition. If you have tried all drug treatments and other therapy and docs concur that it's not working then there is still electroconvulsive therapy. Yes, it is still used. Because apparently it does work where all else has failed. But I'd seriously try to make the other options work first.  

[Scott Allen Abfalter]

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Try re-newing ties with old friends.  Make new friends.  Get out there.
Moping around the house is not good.  Get out and get some air.  Go to the park and walk.  Who knows you might meet someone especially if you take that cute little cat for a walk.

I know you don't want to hear this but get over her.  It's not worth it.  You will find love again if you have a good heart.

Put the past behind you and move on.  

You're right, I don't want to hear that, because I've heard it over and over again.It's hard to put the past behind me when it's there in my dreams, whenever I have them.  I'd rather not argue with you about this.  I'm as over her as I'm going to get, and it's that simple.  I've tried dating, and making new friends, and looking up old ones.  It hasn't work, it's not working now, and I seriously doubt it will ever work.

CK  

Clark,

Sorry, but a little tough love is required here (the moderators can decide if this is appropriate but I believe that it is):  

You are not as over her as you are ever going to be.  You don't want to argue it because you are reacting emotionally, not rationally.  Your friends here will back me up on this: people feel just like you do about broken relationships, and they always feel better over time.  You don't see how that's possible right now, and you might not be able to understand or feel how it could be possible.  But it will.  

I know it is scant comfort for the pains of today, but you will get over it.  

I am glad you are pursiing antidepressants.  Even if that doesn't make the whole world perfect, they are hopefully helping to make it less difficult.  Aside from the antidepressents,  the best advice I have heard here is to get your butt out of the house.  Moping aruond doesn't do any good.  Whining about it doesn't do any good.  And giving up doesn't do any good.   You may not want to hear this, but it's what you need to hear.  

A lot of us have all been through our own share of bad times, you do not have a monopoly on the feelings you are going through.  Listen to us all and don't discount the advice you are being given.  

I feel for you, I really do.  But some of your protests sound a little melodramatic.  If you want sympathy for your pains, well, you have it.  But a lot of times real friends want to give more than just sympathy --they want to help.  

Your #1 enemy right now is you.  Whining and worrying never solves problems; actions solve problems.  Worry and stress are often the product of a mismatch between false expectations and real life.  You have taken a good first step towards feeling better by getting on medication, but you will need to work at it by managing your own expectations and actions and not wallowing in self-pity.  Take personal self-control over your life and run your life instead of letting it run you.

Don't protest.  I don't want to hear your excuses; they are nothing new.  Just take control --you can do it.

Do it.







 

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
Don't protest.  I don't want to hear your excuses; they are nothing new.  Just take control --you can do it.

Do it.

Funny, I was thinking the same of your arguments.  I didn't come on here for pity, I don't need it and i don't like pity.  I was acting emotional when everything went bad between the two of us way back when, I'm not just acting out of emotion now.  When I say I'm doing the best I can, I mean it.  When I say I've reached my max, I've reached it.  I'm not just sitting around moping about, I'm out looking for jobs, and not getting anywhere.  I'm out trying to make friends, and not gettign anywhere.  I'm staying active and trying to be social, and things continue to get worse.  Every few hours I spend with someone I feel drained for a couple days afterwards, emotionally and mentally, and still I press on as best as I can continueing to do all those cliche things everyone keeps telling me to do, and all it gets me is feeling even worse.I wish I were just sitting around the house moping, I miss those old days where I sat alone eating my birthday cake alone in the dark.  It was easier to be alone in the dark than alone in a crowd, but still I listen to everyone else and go on with the advice you just spit out at me.  It's like beating a dead horse, but I do it anyway.
And no, ECT is nothing I would ever submit to voluntarily.

CK

[Confused??]

I understand the difficulties you are going through, even after being well for about 4 years my social life is still not great. All my friends from before are gone, but I have made new ones who are there when I need them but understand that I find it hard to get into the swing of things becuase of my illness.

The thing is that if you actively look for new people, it can come across as you being desperate for other people and as a result frighten them away. You said that you're faith does not allow you do end things (thankfully) so have you gone to church and maybe got help from within that community? My ex who suffered the same thing and an eating disorder, is making a great recovery thanks to medication, counsilling and by attending church with her father every sunday. Her belief I think is also helping her. This is a difficult illness to beat and it is hard to remain positive, but it is a condition which has physical effects. You're brain chemistry is at fault and there is not enough of a particular chemical so it creates the effects that you are feeling. Exercise can help but it must be combined with other treatments, and as is said above modern medication is not as aggressive as the older types. You may have to try a number of types until you find one that suits you, my ex tried four different types of anti-depressant before she started to get well, but now she is on her way.

I would advise you see a doctor, and if you are at school or college then maybe a visit to a staff physciatrist counciller. It will be a difficult recovery, but along with those people you have and family you have members of this board. You said you're family is willing to help you physically, so once you begin a solid treatment i'm sure they will gather round to help you more than they currently are.
Either way good luck and get well.

[TheShadow]

 It was just "issues" for me. I was at a point that I didnt give a shiite what happened to me. Have you ever been so drunk that you lost an entire month? Have you ever woke up covered in your own blood and not remember what happened? Have you ever been admitted to a hospital dehydrated and nearly starved to death?

 

[Clark Kent]

I can't say I've ever been through those things.  There was a month, though, in the army where my NCO refused to allow me and a buddy any MREs or any time to get meals when they were available.  We lived off of those big slatines crackers and day old pudding after raiding the mess tent in the middle of the night when no one was around.  I stopped drinking when I went into the army, knowing i could fall into the traps you mentioned.
You got more fortitude than me,

CK

[TheShadow]

 Thats just it. I dont. Well at the time I didnt think I did. No matter how low you think you are, there are those that have been in worse and survived. There is help out there bro. You just gotta make the first move. If one program doesnt help then find another. It is worth it. The guys on this forum have been through some bad shiite. We'll do what we can to lend support. I know that inside you is the power to overcome this. When my life was at its most difficult I didnt think I had it in me to survive, let alone change. If it was within me to do it, it is within you as well. Faith can move mountains. You just have to put it to work for you. Keep the faith!      

[Scott Allen Abfalter]

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Quote:
Don't protest.  I don't want to hear your excuses; they are nothing new.  Just take control --you can do it.

Do it.

Funny, I was thinking the same of your arguments.  I didn't come on here for pity, I don't need it and i don't like pity.  I was acting emotional when everything went bad between the two of us way back when, I'm not just acting out of emotion now.  When I say I'm doing the best I can, I mean it.  When I say I've reached my max, I've reached it.  I'm not just sitting around moping about, I'm out looking for jobs, and not getting anywhere.  I'm out trying to make friends, and not gettign anywhere.  I'm staying active and trying to be social, and things continue to get worse.  Every few hours I spend with someone I feel drained for a couple days afterwards, emotionally and mentally, and still I press on as best as I can continueing to do all those cliche things everyone keeps telling me to do, and all it gets me is feeling even worse.I wish I were just sitting around the house moping, I miss those old days where I sat alone eating my birthday cake alone in the dark.  It was easier to be alone in the dark than alone in a crowd, but still I listen to everyone else and go on with the advice you just spit out at me.  It's like beating a dead horse, but I do it anyway.
And no, ECT is nothing I would ever submit to voluntarily.

CK  

"eat my birthday cake alone in the dark"

I am sorry, but that sounds an awful lot like a "please pity me" statement.  I am not going to do that.  

Look, if you are drained from interacting with people it's because you are not relaxed about it.  Recall what I said about stress coming from a conflict between expectations and reality?  If you are drained it is because you are, conciously or not, putting pressure on yourself.  Maybe you should lower your expectations and not expect too much.  If you go see a movie or dinner with someone, don't expect miracles just enjoy the movie or dinner for what it is at a simple level.

We're not just "spitting out" advice.  We're trying to share the benefit of collective wisdom.   Since this is a text forum, it is hard to communicate.  You will have to filter the applicable advice from the inapplicable since all we have to go on are a few posts.  

Ultimately this still all leads to you and your own expectations and perceptions.  If you want to become a hermit and eat birthday cake in the dark, go do it.  I won't waste pity or advice on you.  But the fact that you are trying shows that you have some amount of need for social contact (all people do, whether they admit it or not) and so we're trying to help.

My guess is that you are just trying too hard and expecting too much.   Ease up.

(And, no, I would not submit to ECT either unless the doctor showed me some pretty convincing medical data based on actual physical brain-chemistry tests!  Although, the fellow does have a point --it's a much more well controlled and safe procedure these days as compared to the horror stories of 50 years ago.  But I also know someone, elderly, who was in the depths of a depression where he would not eat and the ECT triggered a heart attack and killed him on the spot.)




 

[Corbomite]

Quote:
Look, if you are drained from interacting with people it's because you are not relaxed about it. Recall what I said about stress coming from a conflict between expectations and reality? If you are drained it is because you are, conciously or not, putting pressure on yourself. Maybe you should lower your expectations and not expect too much. If you go see a movie or dinner with someone, don't expect miracles just enjoy the movie or dinner for what it is at a simple level.

This is the best thing I've read so far. He is right. The only person you are responsible for pleasing is yourself. Pleasing others is a good and noble thing, but not at the expense of your own health, mental or otherwise. At this point you sound as if you are ready for a monastery and a hair shirt.

I believe the kitten will help a bit as animals give unconditional love without expecting much back except attention and the basics of survival and you sound like you could use some of that right now. I sympathize with your family situation as my family is about as warm as winter in Alaska when it comes to emotional support. It was one of the factors leading to my brother killing himself in 1989. I realized at seven years old that I was on my own on that front. A horrible thing for a child to have to come to terms with. I had two choices: Become the needy type that constantly searched for acceptance/affection elsewhere or get up and stand on my own two feet and learn to make it a strength and not a weakness. I chose the latter. God knows I don't always succeed as you can't do everything yourself, but I do try.

Scott is right about "expecting too much" or expecting anything at all for that matter. If you learn not to expect anything, you are never disappointed when you don't get something and very happy when you do. People have thier own problems and may not be open to yours, especially at first, but the right person(s) will be there for you when you need them if you don't drive them away with too much baggage at the start. I'm not asking you to be a cynic, but human nature is selfish. It is the rare person that can give much before thinking of themselves at some point. The one's that have managed this have been given sainthood.


At this point you need to ask yourself these questions -

Am I a good person (not other's opinions, yours)?

Do I try to live my life in a way that conforms to my belief system?

Do I treat people the way I would like to be treated?

Do I try my best to do right by myself and others as much as humanly possible?

What can I do to try and improve myself?

Do I listen to other's critiques/criticisms of me rationally or emotionally and do I act on them rationally or emotionally?

What will make me happy?


When you can honestly answer these questions, especially the last one, and act on them you will find life a little more bearable. It is hard to be objective about yourself, but if you search deeply and let your honest feelings about these matters come to the surface I think you will find the solutions at hand. I had a friend in therapy for ten years with no real progress when I gave him that list and within six months he had dropped his therapist and gotten his life back on track. He still has some troubles, but he is much more happy with himself and his life than when I met him. He still calls me for an occasional kick in the pants when he feels overwhelmed.

This may or may not work for you and must be considered with great deliberation before attempting. It should in no way be construed as medical advice. If you really do have a chemical problem, this cannot relieve the underlying problems you face, only mitigate your reactions to them.
 

[Dogmatix!]

Nice post, Corbo...and I totally see that in you from what that little that I've been about to discern via my interactions with you online.  Your post also helps explain a few things.


For my part, I come from a pretty loving family that looks out for each other, but that hasn't precluded me from having my own problems with what I think is actual depression and I know I do have certain fears and issues associated with confrontation and shyness.  These have served to hold me back in my personal and professional life.  Let's just say I'm a hell of a lot more outgoing in these fora than I am in real life.


Interesting thread.


 

[Scott Allen Abfalter]

I think his advice is good for basically anybody...
 

[JMM]

Nobody is tired of you Clark, that is part of why we are here, to help others with life, and life can be so difficult at times.

You are a veteran, therefore you are entitled to care at a VA center. Do you have a nice one near you? If not then we need to get you into a dom facility. There you will get the health care and support that you need. I've been lonely before, I know how severe depression can affect you. I also know what it is like to not want to be around large groups of people. For some reason that condition affects vets more than any other segment of American society. Look for a VA center that is good (I highly recommend Temple, Waco, TX or Oklahoma City (Steve can tell us if they have a dom there). If worse comes to worse, we will get you to Austin and you can stay at my ex-wife's apt. maybe until you get admitted to the dom in Temple, TX. Whatever you decide, let us know ASAP. Being an ex-lush and having tried to commit suicide so that I would never be a burden on others, I can tell you from personal experience that those two options are NOT an option.

You need changes in your life amigo, and you need to act upon it soon. Let us know and NEVER be afraid to ask for help, be it from us or from VA or whomever.  

[EE]

Just remember Clark, your impervious to bullets and that kitten depends on you.

I would write more but I am in a serious hurry right now. take care of yourself man, we all would miss ya here.

[Clark Kent]

Thanks JMM, I really appreciate it.  As it stands, i'm way up in MN, just starting to go back to school this week, so I'm kinda stuck up here for the time being.  I visit the VA med center in a city called St cloud, and they treat me pretty good up there.  My biggest problem right now is that I made the mistake of moving back in with my parents,a nd with no job right now, I'm without the ability to find a place of my own again.  Like I mentioned before, they'll help me on the most basic things in life, but other than that they don't want anything to do with me.  
BTW, what is a dom?
Thanks,

CK

[Stormbringer]

I t is a kind of halfway house where vets with problems and no homes can stay for a while until they can get a job and make it on thier own. But it is also a treatment center for those who don't have it quite that bad.

[EE]

Quote:

Quote:
Don't protest.  I don't want to hear your excuses; they are nothing new.  Just take control --you can do it.

Do it.

Funny, I was thinking the same of your arguments.  I didn't come on here for pity, I don't need it and i don't like pity.  I was acting emotional when everything went bad between the two of us way back when, I'm not just acting out of emotion now.  When I say I'm doing the best I can, I mean it.  When I say I've reached my max, I've reached it.  I'm not just sitting around moping about, I'm out looking for jobs, and not getting anywhere.  I'm out trying to make friends, and not gettign anywhere.  I'm staying active and trying to be social, and things continue to get worse.  Every few hours I spend with someone I feel drained for a couple days afterwards, emotionally and mentally, and still I press on as best as I can continueing to do all those cliche things everyone keeps telling me to do, and all it gets me is feeling even worse.I wish I were just sitting around the house moping, I miss those old days where I sat alone eating my birthday cake alone in the dark.  It was easier to be alone in the dark than alone in a crowd, but still I listen to everyone else and go on with the advice you just spit out at me.  It's like beating a dead horse, but I do it anyway.
And no, ECT is nothing I would ever submit to voluntarily.

CK  

I know about the stress and depression that comes with not having work etc. March 1st I started my new job. I got the job through someone who is now my friend. She did not know it, not that anyone did, but I was so stressed out that I could not sleep and had trouble functioning. I was 2 days from being homeless, I had 43 cents ( Approx ) to my name. I was damned near out of gas for my car, I was eatting 1 or 2 packages of top ramen a day for food which was as cheap as I could get at 10 to 20 cents a meal. My cats were almost out of food and litter at the time as well.

It sucked, I could not sleep, when I did sleep I was having all kinda of bad dreams, I did not want to eat but I did only because I knew I needed to. I did not want to go out to do anything because I had given up hope. I did not have the gas to find work and I was 2 days from being homeless, I had pretty much gave up at that point. Then her windshield wiper motor broke and she asked me if I could fix it. I did so and her dad needed someone to work with him and his nephew in his business and now I have work. Now I have $20 every two weeks to my name after paying all my bills and stuff. I am still stressed and still dont lead much of a life but hell, its getting better and its working out, like it usually does.

I've been homeless before, 4 months in the winter back in missouri when I was out visiting and refused help from family etc, none of them knew I became homeless thats how much I refused help. I know it can be hard but I know you got the power in ya.

God I hope some of that makes sense.

[JMM]

Domicillary, it is a very nice building behind the hospital in Temple and other select locations. They have 3 programs (usually a waiting list), SATP (substance abuse treatment program but you must be mentally stable), voc rehab (they drive you to different places to apply for work and you stay at the dom and save money until you reach your savings goal with the counselor involved then they help you find housing so that you can start your life over), and last is health maint. (people that have health problems and need to be near the hospital while they recuperate). 2 man rooms, nice bed and lockers and desk (just imagine the modern barracks in the military and you get the idea). you do a morning chore (very easy) and they have civil service cooks that cook you 3 hots a day (very nice mess hall complete with salad bar and everything), movies, PX in the building (more like a shopette), full medical services including physicals and they even have their own sick call that is in the building. Civilians would die to have such a service, and there are some vets that need to quit sucking tit and leave to make space for other vets in need, but they will not and play the medical and political game. Please inquire your local VA about the nearest dom. You will need to apply, and they will interview you, but YOU will get squared away. Yes, they have telephones in each room (is how I used dial up to get online).

Waco has a dom as well (they had it before, then got rid of it, then started another one because of the empty buildings that got renovated with millions of taxpayer dollars and were sitting empty and we had many vets in need). I liked Waco as well as Temple when I was there for major depression (Waco has the psych ward) because they have a library with computer lab, so I could communicate with Vicky, you guys and gals, and my ex (I need her whenever I'm in the area because we all need support and supplies).

Like I said, if things get too rough, inquire at the VA about getting into the dom, at least you will be near your own kind. I just got out of the civvie rehab and I hated it, the noise, the BS, and the crappy facilities. I'm going to e-mail Sen Hutchison and tell her the El Paso VA system needs an overhaul as there are many vets in need yet since few facilities they contract out, the money would be better spent and saved by building a dom facility in the El Paso area.

I can try to get you more info if your VA cannot help. If worse comes to worse, finish your semester and I will fly you to Austin and Leda can take you to Temple and Waco and you can look at the facilities and decide if you like (like I said, central Texas VA spends money on their vets and facilities) and we can try to get you squared away, ok? If you do decide, let me know in advance so that I can make an advance purchase on airfare, I'm ok on money, but I'm not wealthy by any means.  

[IndyShark]

Clark, if I may suggest two things, please consider working out more often and getting a pet.

I would out three times a week and find it a great way to relax and take my mind off things that depress or anger me. The body produces chemicals that make you feel good when you do a lot of exercise. It's hard to do, but the physical and mental rewards are well worth it.

Secondly, pets have a soothing effect on humans. I have a few and playing with them is very relaxing. This may not be a cure, but it will take your mind off depressing thoughts for a while. I have started breeding CITES class 3 animals and it is a really blast to help save endangered animals. I highly recommend it!

Best of luck to you!  

[Clark Kent]

JMM, that has to be the most generous offer I can ever remember getting.  However, I'm thinking that I'll be in MN for at least the next couple years, though.  When I went back to school I didn't do it with the GI bill, I'm enrolled in a VA program Called Chapter 31, or vocational rehabilitation.  I traded my GI bill in for it, they pay for all my classes, books and supplies needed for whatever program I go into, along with some subsistance each month.  The subsiistance isn't enough for me to live on each month, but it's a start.  Since I still have some money saved up, i was considering making some small purchases to build on and sell over eBay, but I'm not sure what to try to sell, how to keep supplying myself or even how well it would work.  
Thanks very much for your offer, I erally do appreciate it,

CK