Topic: Newest stuff

[ModelsPlease]

Exceptional Work. I love them both.You have wonderful vision sir.
 
-MP  

[111wallace111]

I don't remember any XCL's but i never played that much SFB.....
But yeah i think it would be a great idea.

 

[ModelsPlease]

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I like 'em. I'm pretty fond of your Romulan and Kilingon designs in particular and use quite a few of them in my OP fleets. There is something extra good about their texture sets, I think. I would very much like to see what you could do with creating a unique X frigate for each of the primary races in OP. All of them got their cruiser and destroyer models but what happened with the frigates?

On a related thought... why are there no XCL's? Doesn't that sound like an opportunity for some creatice license? Are there specifications for any XCL's in SFB?  

I have wondered that for the longest time Rogue sir,I think it would be awesome if someone started working on stats and paramiters for that class.I know there are more than a few model candidates out there already for an XCL class and I'm sure solidifying classification will trigger even more concepts,and every race will need them. WOO HOO THINK OF ALL THOSE NEW MODELS !!!  Maybe then we could ask Firesoul or one of the other Moders could put the XCL in a Mod for future use. My humble $.02
-MP
   

[Fury_of_a_Seraph]

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 i am a liberal democrate  

I won't hold that against you, even though I'm a die-hard conservative Republican...your stuff still rocks!!  

See we can get along here.....
 Bipartisan Star Trek?
Any Greens out there  

haha, i have you both beat!

Conservative Democrat....
Try and figure that one out.

[manitoba]

OH YEAH  


WELL WELL WELL  

I AM  A          HUMAN        

[Rogue]

Quote:
 I have wondered that for the longest time Rogue sir,I think it would be awesome if someone started working on stats and paramiters for that class.I know there are more than a few model candidates out there already for an XCL class and I'm sure solidifying classification will trigger even more concepts,and every race will need them. WOO HOO THINK OF ALL THOSE NEW MODELS !!!  Maybe then we could ask Firesoul or one of the other Moders could put the XCL in a Mod for future use. My humble $.02
-MP  

Oh, it's a idea that I would like to see happen. It seems to me that there should be classes XFF, XDD, XCL, XCA and just maybe XBC. By historical context XDN and XBB are right out. It seems to me that the F-XDD is a CL already that bears the DD classification. Hmmm...

Another thing that I wished was part of the game mechanics is a more diverse heavy weapons option. In keeping with the similarities of a space born naval simulation, frigates should not have the same size heavy weapons as a dreadnought. Since it is necessary to have a platform able to mount a 16" weapon I would kind of like to have seen that be the same in SFB. That would have translated to SFC and we would have had frigates with half sized photons and the real heavy weapons installed on the appropriate hull size. But as the saying goes, "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas". 'Tis pretty pointless for me to bring it up now. But I really do wish that was the way it had gone. Many frigates seem to be too heavliy armed to me. It is very much possible for two first rate frigates to take down a dreadnought.  

[111wallace111]

 

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It is very much possible for two first rate frigates to take down a dreadnought.  

I have felt that way too..My solution. I no longer have any original ships in my shiplist.... instaed i have regular torpedos on frigates and police ships and smaller destroyer escorts and the like and the heavy photon on the larger ships...
The smaller classes use phaser 3's and gattling phasers the medium ships use phaser 2's and the cruisers phaser 1's the dn's and BB's use phaser x's and heavy phasers.

With races that have plasma torps i use a simular approach.

Races with other weapons i kind of use my judgement......I think might work for you too.


Maybe  the x ships have step up for class weapons  xff phaser 2......xdd phaser 1  xca phaser x and heavy phasers...ect.

[Rogue]

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It is very much possible for two first rate frigates to take down a dreadnought.  

I have felt that way too..My solution. I no longer have any original ships in my shiplist.... instaed i have regular torpedos on frigates and police ships and smaller destroyer escorts and the like and the heavy photon on the larger ships...
The smaller classes use phaser 3's and gattling phasers the medium ships use phaser 2's and the cruisers phaser 1's the dn's and BB's use phaser x's and heavy phasers.

With races that have plasma torps i use a simular approach.

Races with other weapons i kind of use my judgement......I think might work for you too.


Maybe  the x ships have step up for class weapons  xff phaser 2......xdd phaser 1  xca phaser x and heavy phasers...ect.  

Ah, so it isn't just me thinks the frigates are too much. To me the Fed battlefrigate seems to be ridiculous. It's no wonder that so many people like them. If I were setting up the specifications for an SFB like game, with the  idea being that it is going to be analogous to present day naval technology, then one would need a task force of frigates to take on a battleship.

I approve of the solution you wrote about though. It is certainly an option to bring that kind of perspective to SFC. Since you have actualy set your specifications up that way how does it play? Have you done any single player campaign play with it?  

[Azel]

OK
Look guys, being the work horses of a fleet,
frigates in the real world are very, very tough hombres
they are very mission specific...so yes a couple to a few frigates can take out alot
That is why the Reliant is so weapon orientated  

[ModelsPlease]

Quote:
OK
Look guys, being the work horses of a fleet,
frigates in the real world are very, very tough hombres
they are very mission specific...so yes a couple to a few frigates can take out alot
That is why the Reliant is so weapon orientated  

We call real world frigates small boys.They usually carry 1 gun and 2 40mm AA guns or missiles.Translate that to SFC = 1phaser (2 shot), 2 torp (3shot) ,1 mmd, 1 missile launcher (20 missiles).You'd need a pack of them to destroy a Dn. Destroyers on the other hand are tough S.O.B.'s.Toughest on the planet. At the time SFB was designed and even in th late 70's early 80's this may have been  true about frigates.But not anymore,perhaps these stats say it all........

FFG
Power Plant 2 - General Electric LM 2500 gas turbine engines
1 shaft, 41,000 shaft horsepower total.  
Length Short: 445 feet (133.5 meters)
Long: 453 feet (135.9 meters) with LAMPS III modification  
Beam 45 feet (13.5 meters)  
Displacement 4,100 tons (full load)  
Speed 29 plus knots (33.4+ miles per hour)  
Aircraft Long: Two SH-60 (LAMPS III) in FFG 8, 28, 29, 32, 33, 36-61
Short: One SH-2F (Lamps Mk-I) in FFG 9-27,30, 31,34.  
Crew ACTIVE: 13 Officers, 287 Enlisted
NRF: 83 Active, 76 TAR, 57 SELRES  
Armament Standard Missile (MR)
Harpoon (from Standard Missile Launcher)
6 - MK-46 torpedoes(from two MK 32 SVTT triple mounts)
1 - 76 mm (3-inch)/62 caliber MK 75 rapid fire gun
1 - Phalanx close-in-weapons system  
Combat Systems AN/SPS-49 Air Search Radar
AN/SPS-55 Surface Search Radar
Mk92 Fire Control System
AN/SLQ-32 Electronics Warfare System
AN/SQS-56 Sonar
Mk36 SRBOC Decoy System
AN/SQR-19 Towed Array Sonar System
AN/SQQ-89 ASW Integration System  

DDG
DDG 82 is 509.5 feet long, with a beam of 66 feet. Four gas turbine engines will power the 9,238-ton ship to speeds in excess of 30 knots.
DDG 82's Aegis Combat System, the world's foremost naval weapons system, includes the AN/SPY-1D phased array radar; the MK 41 Vertical Launching System (VLS), which fires a combination of up to 90 Standard surface-to-air, Tomahawk surface-to-surface and VLA antisubmarine rockets; and the AN/SQQ-89 Antisubmarine Warfare System, with a bow-mounted AN/SQS-53C sonar and AN/SQR-19 towed array. LASSEN will have eight Harpoon antiship missile launchers and six MK 32 torpedo tubes, as well as two MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapon Systems and a five-inch, rapid-firing deck gun.

The ship’s aircraft handling and support facilities include dual aircraft hangars (port & starboard), a dual Recovery Assist, Securing and Traversing (RAST) System, and associated machinery systems providing significantly enhanced helicopter launch and recovery, command and control, and maintenance/repair capabilities. DDG 82 features the over-the-horizon LAMPS MK III Antisubmarine Warfare Control System, and will be assigned two SH-60B Seahawk Undersea Warfare Helicopters. State-of-the-art C4I (Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence) systems provide Aegis destroyers and their crews with total situational awareness.

Convert this to SFC stats = 90 missiles,6 torp tubes(4 shot),2mmds(4shot),1-2 phasers(4 shot)
Destroyers are bigger,faster and have more firepower. I'll use a DD to take on a DN anyday of the week.
 
-MP    

[Azel]

 

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OK
Look guys, being the work horses of a fleet,
frigates in the real world are very, very tough hombres
they are very mission specific...so yes a couple to a few frigates can take out alot
That is why the Reliant is so weapon orientated


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We call real world frigates small boys.They usually carry 1 gun and 2 40mm AA guns or missiles.Translate that to SFC = 1phaser (2 shot), 2 torp (3shot) ,1 mmd, 1 missile launcher (20 missiles).You'd need a pack of them to destroy a Dn. Destroyers on the other hand are tough S.O.B.'s.Toughest on the planet. At the time SFB was designed and even in th late 70's early 80's this may have been true about frigates.But not anymore,perhaps these stats say it all........

FFG
Power Plant 2 - General Electric LM 2500 gas turbine engines
1 shaft, 41,000 shaft horsepower total.
Length Short: 445 feet (133.5 meters)
Long: 453 feet (135.9 meters) with LAMPS III modification
Beam 45 feet (13.5 meters)
Displacement 4,100 tons (full load)
Speed 29 plus knots (33.4+ miles per hour)
Aircraft Long: Two SH-60 (LAMPS III) in FFG 8, 28, 29, 32, 33, 36-61
Short: One SH-2F (Lamps Mk-I) in FFG 9-27,30, 31,34.
Crew ACTIVE: 13 Officers, 287 Enlisted
NRF: 83 Active, 76 TAR, 57 SELRES
Armament Standard Missile (MR)
Harpoon (from Standard Missile Launcher)
6 - MK-46 torpedoes(from two MK 32 SVTT triple mounts)
1 - 76 mm (3-inch)/62 caliber MK 75 rapid fire gun
1 - Phalanx close-in-weapons system
Combat Systems AN/SPS-49 Air Search Radar
AN/SPS-55 Surface Search Radar
Mk92 Fire Control System
AN/SLQ-32 Electronics Warfare System
AN/SQS-56 Sonar
Mk36 SRBOC Decoy System
AN/SQR-19 Towed Array Sonar System
AN/SQQ-89 ASW Integration System

DDG
DDG 82 is 509.5 feet long, with a beam of 66 feet. Four gas turbine engines will power the 9,238-ton ship to speeds in excess of 30 knots.
DDG 82's Aegis Combat System, the world's foremost naval weapons system, includes the AN/SPY-1D phased array radar; the MK 41 Vertical Launching System (VLS), which fires a combination of up to 90 Standard surface-to-air, Tomahawk surface-to-surface and VLA antisubmarine rockets; and the AN/SQQ-89 Antisubmarine Warfare System, with a bow-mounted AN/SQS-53C sonar and AN/SQR-19 towed array. LASSEN will have eight Harpoon antiship missile launchers and six MK 32 torpedo tubes, as well as two MK 15 Phalanx Close-In Weapon Systems and a five-inch, rapid-firing deck gun.

The ship’s aircraft handling and support facilities include dual aircraft hangars (port & starboard), a dual Recovery Assist, Securing and Traversing (RAST) System, and associated machinery systems providing significantly enhanced helicopter launch and recovery, command and control, and maintenance/repair capabilities. DDG 82 features the over-the-horizon LAMPS MK III Antisubmarine Warfare Control System, and will be assigned two SH-60B Seahawk Undersea Warfare Helicopters. State-of-the-art C4I (Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence) systems provide Aegis destroyers and their crews with total situational awareness.

Convert this to SFC stats = 90 missiles,6 torp tubes(4 shot),2mmds(4shot),1-2 phasers(4 shot)
Destroyers are bigger,faster and have more firepower. I'll use a DD to take on a DN anyday of the week.
 
-MP

Yeap
They are not Called Destroyers for nothing
 

[Rogue]

Models Please,

    Good technical breakdown you referenced for us. It is highly unlikely we will have consensus on the meaning of frigate, destroyer, cruiser and battleship on this board and I accept differences of opinion on the matter. The earlest reference to frigates I am aware of is for a class of ship that was a practical warship but would never be mistaken for a man-of war. It was what you built if you needed a warship for a naval presence but couldn't seriously field a ship of the line of that day.

Destroyers of WW2 are more of what I think of when that term is used. To be sure the role and capability of a destroyer in modern terms only vaguely relates to that. They are far more than just a support ship as they once were. As we all know the era of the battleship/dreadnought is about over. Once they were the preeminent warship until the carrier took that distinction. The only other class of ship that is worthy of consideration is the nuclear powered submarine. The one thing a ship like the New Jersey can offer is survivability. It is about the only armor that might be able to survive a strike by a ship killing missile and still be mission worthy. But the short of it is... the weapons of today can defeat any armor system you can develop. So why build a capital ship like a battleship when they are so vulnerable to modern weapons systems? In a no holds barred war they would quickly fall prey to a fast attack submarine or another kind of missile.

So how does this relate to SFC terms? Let the debate rage as I wouldn't care to participate. Coming from a SFB background the similarities in terms with that of cold war era navies is unmistakable. Do we even build frigates or cruisers anymore? I'd have to do some web searches to even know. As far as Star Trek has a say in TOS terms, the constitution class cruiser was the finest the Federation built at the time and it was portrayed that way in the early revisions of Starfleet Battles. And that's a long time ago.      

[ModelsPlease]

Rogue sir,
The Surface Combatant Force Requirement Study does not define any need for a single mission ship such as the frigate and there are no frigates planned in the Navy's five-year shipbuilding plan. But they're still active in the US Navy.The European navies are still developing frigates.I believe there is a joint country design in the making.
 

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So how does this relate to SFC terms? Let the debate rage as I wouldn't care to participate. Coming from a SFB background the similarities in terms with that of cold war era navies is unmistakable. Do we even build frigates or cruisers anymore? I'd have to do some web searches to even know. As far as Star Trek has a say in TOS terms, the constitution class cruiser was the finest the Federation built at the time and it was portrayed that way in the early revisions of Starfleet Battles. And that's a long time ago.  

I agree completely with your thinking of frigates in SFB's,TOS and TMP Trek mods,as I come from the same era. When I set up my Lost Era and TNG mods I put more emphasis on the DD's like a modern day navy.It's just my thing,I was just giving a RL comparision in case anyone was curious as to the differences in the 2 classes. And besides DD's are just so much fun to use

 
-MP