Topic: DeBorging the Borg

[mdutr0]

 I heard that there was a way to make the borg lose their hull regeneration and behave like regular ships (i.e. banking while turning etc).  How does one do that?

Thanks,

Micah  

[Cleaven]

Does that sound like item 6 in the patch readme file?  

[MrCue]

Assets\CommonSettings\HullItems.gf
Find at the bottom

[BorgArmor]
DoesRegen=1

1 = Borg / On
0 = Non-Borg / Off

[Praxis]

Normal ships *don't* bank unless they're in atmosphere.  In space, there's no reason to bank.

Federation ships just don't obey the laws of physics :P

[InragedSith]

Star Trek in general doesn't obey the laws of physics

So I have no problem with banking ships
 

[SSCF_LeRoy]

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Normal ships *don't* bank unless they're in atmosphere.  In space, there's no reason to bank.

Federation ships just don't obey the laws of physics :P  

Star Trek in general doesn't obey the laws of physics

So I have no problem with banking ships

Starships bank in order to bring weapons into arc, of course
 

[Magnum357]

Guys, the reason why ships bank in SFC is that the basic engine is based on the old SFB rules.  SFB explained that the reason why ships bank like ships in water is because they are moving at such high velocity that it takes time and energy too turn.  In SFB, the Warp engines help augment movement through space by lowering the initial mass of the vessel so that the Impulse engines can move the ship at high velocities.  At such high volocities, ships in SFB can't turn on a dime so they have too "Bank" in order too turn.  Rockets and the Space Shuttles need thrust too turn them in space.  In Star Trek and SFB, since the ships are moving so fast (hunderes too thousands of Kilometers per second at Impulse speeds) that the ship would crush like and egg if you turned the ship sharply.  That is why in SFB (and in SFC3) they have what is called the "High Energy Turn" or HET.  It focuses a huge amount of  the energy from the engines into the Y axis of the ship while moving in order to turn it extremely sharply.  

[Praxis]

Quote:
Guys, the reason why ships bank in SFC is that the basic engine is based on the old SFB rules.  SFB explained that the reason why ships bank like ships in water is because they are moving at such high velocity that it takes time and energy too turn.  In SFB, the Warp engines help augment movement through space by lowering the initial mass of the vessel so that the Impulse engines can move the ship at high velocities.  At such high volocities, ships in SFB can't turn on a dime so they have too "Bank" in order too turn.  Rockets and the Space Shuttles need thrust too turn them in space.  In Star Trek and SFB, since the ships are moving so fast (hunderes too thousands of Kilometers per second at Impulse speeds) that the ship would crush like and egg if you turned the ship sharply.  That is why in SFB (and in SFC3) they have what is called the "High Energy Turn" or HET.  It focuses a huge amount of  the energy from the engines into the Y axis of the ship while moving in order to turn it extremely sharply.    

Still defies physics.

If you have thrusters that turn the ship, even if it takes a lot of energy, they will turn around their center of gravity, like the Borg in SFC3.

In SFC3, if you have a fed ship sit still, and tell it to turn 90 degrees to the right...it will turn on it's side and bank like a fighter on a wing.  Even if it takes time and energy to turn, it will rotate on its axis, albiet slowly, like the Borg ships (never see them bank).

There is absolutely no reason for them to bank on a wing like an airplane,

[Death_Merchant]

Mags is confusing SFB "turn mode" with the graphical "banking" in SFC when a ship is turning.
We still love him anyway....

And spaceships banking like airplanes (thank you George Lucas and Star Wars) in space is silly, but we still like it.  

[Cleaven]

Quote:
Guys, the reason why ships bank in SFC is that the basic engine is based on the old SFB rules.  SFB explained that the reason why ships bank like ships in water is because they are moving at such high velocity that it takes time and energy too turn.  In SFB, the Warp engines help augment movement through space by lowering the initial mass of the vessel so that the Impulse engines can move the ship at high velocities.  At such high volocities, ships in SFB can't turn on a dime so they have too "Bank" in order too turn.  Rockets and the Space Shuttles need thrust too turn them in space.  In Star Trek and SFB, since the ships are moving so fast (hunderes too thousands of Kilometers per second at Impulse speeds) that the ship would crush like and egg if you turned the ship sharply.  That is why in SFB (and in SFC3) they have what is called the "High Energy Turn" or HET.  It focuses a huge amount of  the energy from the engines into the Y axis of the ship while moving in order to turn it extremely sharply.    

You'll have to enlightment me as to where in the SFB rules or Captains Logs this is.  

[Cleaven]

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Mags is confusing SFB "turn mode" with the graphical "banking" in SFC when a ship is turning.
We still love him anyway....

And spaceships banking like airplanes (thank you George Lucas and Star Wars) in space is silly, but we still like it.  

Uh yep.  

And hands up who wants to play a real physics sub-light space combat game?  

[Windfox]

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Mags is confusing SFB "turn mode" with the graphical "banking" in SFC when a ship is turning.
We still love him anyway....

And spaceships banking like airplanes (thank you George Lucas and Star Wars) in space is silly, but we still like it.  

Uh yep.  

And hands up who wants to play a real physics sub-light space combat game?  

Harrington-verse(as in Honor Harrington).  Nuff said.  

[The_Pelican]

Why do the ships bank in Star Trek?

Simple - because it looks good.

They don't have to bank, but they do anyway.

[Bonk]

 

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 There is absolutely no reason for them to bank on a wing like an airplane,  

Crew inertia.  

[David Ferrell]

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Mags is confusing SFB "turn mode" with the graphical "banking" in SFC when a ship is turning.
We still love him anyway....

And spaceships banking like airplanes (thank you George Lucas and Star Wars) in space is silly, but we still like it.  

Uh yep.  

And hands up who wants to play a real physics sub-light space combat game?  

I do, but they cancelled B5: Into the Fire.

Yep they bank because it looks good.  They bank in the shows, they bank in the game.

Thanks,

Dave

[Scipio_66]

Quote:

Uh yep.  

And hands up who wants to play a real physics sub-light space combat game?  

If you want to do it on the tabletop, Full Thrust does a fairly decent job.  Once you start moving in one direction, you keep moving in that direction (at the same speed) until you expend thrust to change your vector.  Movement for each turn is pre-plotted, and conducted simultaneously.  Watching two opposing fleets try to manuever to both stay in formation and point themselves at the enemy can be entertaining.

It's far from perfect, but it does get the point across.  It's also a fun game.

-S'Cipio  

[Mog]

Wasn't one of the Elite sequels like that? Combat sucked in it, I know that, compared to the first Elite, which was a pity because the rest of the changes were great (could change your ship, more jobs, factions etc).

[Praxis]

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If you want to do it on the tabletop, Full Thrust does a fairly decent job.  Once you start moving in one direction, you keep moving in that direction (at the same speed) until you expend thrust to change your vector.  Movement for each turn is pre-plotted, and conducted simultaneously.  Watching two opposing fleets try to manuever to both stay in formation and point themselves at the enemy can be entertaining.

It's far from perfect, but it does get the point across.  It's also a fun game.

-S'Cipio  

Wow.  A game that actually obeys the laws of physics.

Anyone ever notice how when in Star Trek a ship turns off its engines, it stops?  By intertia, it should keep going straight after the engines are turned off unless they use braking thrusters.

[Lieutenant_Q]

I think it can be explained (non-canonly of course) as an active warp field creates a subspace drag, which would also explain why impulse fuel is expended constantly while at impulse, instead of simply reaching the desired speed and shutting the engines off.  Of course, it can also be put down to the early writers had no clue what they were talking about when it comes to space travel and later writers had no choice but to continue the trend.

Inertia, was used correctly in The Battle, Picard tells Riker to turn off the Tractor beam on the Stargazer, and let her inertia carry her along, which would seem to support the active warp field theory.  

[Praxis]

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I think it can be explained (non-canonly of course) as an active warp field creates a subspace drag, which would also explain why impulse fuel is expended constantly while at impulse, instead of simply reaching the desired speed and shutting the engines off.  Of course, it can also be put down to the early writers had no clue what they were talking about when it comes to space travel and later writers had no choice but to continue the trend.

Inertia, was used correctly in The Battle, Picard tells Riker to turn off the Tractor beam on the Stargazer, and let her inertia carry her along, which would seem to support the active warp field theory.    

Yeah but when you're at impulse you're not using a warp field.

Also, there's no such thing as a "Maximum speed".  If the engines are turned to maximum, you'll keep accelerating (think of the graph of the square root of x)- more powerful engines accelerate faster.  You'd keep accelerating and accelerating and accelerating, getting closer and closer to lightspeed.  Maybe after a couple years accelerating you'd eventually reach .99999 lightspeed...getting closer and closer to lightspeed, but never making it.

Anyway, when there's a pursuit in ST, the ship with a faster engine would accelerate faster, and therefore would be gaining at a much faster rate.