Topic: What will you need to run your NEXT Microsoft operating system?

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

[Javora]

Yikes, with those type of specs my next OS might not be a Micro$oft OS.  But then if Apple OS could run on the Intel/AMD platform I would have swiched a long time ago.  Or at least run a dual system.
 

[Sirgod]

 

Quote:
  Pretty hefty. But will it run SFC?

Hell If I know, I'm still trying to Get XP to run Tom Clancy's SSN. I'm about ready to copy my disk, and try running them off a Virtual CD rom Via Daemon tools. Compatibility mode for both win 95 or win 98 doesn't seem to work.

Stephen

[Clark Kent]

It's a communist plot, and it's unacceptable.  I can no longer sit back and allowcommunist infiltration,communist indoctrination, communist subversion, AND the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

CK

P.S.  i like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

[Baker]

 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).

[S'Raek]

This is exactly why I play all my games on a console.    

[ActiveX]

Because windows takes compuguts to run?

PC games are still better looking :P

[Sirgod]

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen

[NJAntman]

Those specs sound down right expensive! Looks like I'll be running XP for the next decade at least.  

Some time around 2018, "Son, forget about that Harvard scholarship, Mom and I need you to sign with the Yankees so we can afford that new computer."  

[Hilton]

I bet Gates has stock in hardware companies! That's the only reason!

 

[Kmelew]

Quote:

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen  

Ask and ye shall receive...

 DosBox

I recently used this to play Privateer on XP, which used to be impossible due to Origin's proprietary JEMM memory manager.

Aces of the Pacific and all Ultima games appear to be supported.  

[Sirgod]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen  

Ask and ye shall receive...

 DosBox

I recently used this to play Privateer on XP, which used to be impossible due to Origin's proprietary JEMM memory manager.

Aces of the Pacific and all Ultima games appear to be supported.  

Thanks again Kmelew. I keep forgetting about that proggy.

Stephen

[Strafer]

There's also  ScummVM for the LucasArts games.

[TalonClaw]

*CHOKE*  They've got to be kidding.

[Death_Merchant]

Holy Cow!

I guess Dr. Soong did not use Longhorn for Data. His positronic net isn't up to spec......  

[Baker]

 Thanks guys, but I've already got Dos Box, had it running and still had the same problem. I was thinking of using an old computer of mine, formatting the hard drive and installing 98se (bare bones) and installing Dos Box. Either that or possibly an old version of dos.

 I tried using memmaker, loading a memory fix in dos box (keeping in mind that I was running dos box off this machine like a normal program) but was not successful.

 Most of the time I just wish they would bring out an updated version or have another ww2 sim just like it (the number of aircraft was astounding).

[Maxillius]

Quote:

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

More reasons to buy Apple.

[Baker]

 They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
 They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.  

Hopefully I'm not tooting Apple's horn too much, but Macs make fine game machines, they just lack games.  Also, they aren't all that expensive these days anymore, at least, if you go eMac, iMac or iBook.  The Powerbooks are more expensive, as are the Powermacs, but I feel well worth the money if that's what you need,

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

[Praxis]

Quote:
They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.  

 OpenGL integration into the operating system...even the desktop is 3d.  Before you call this a waste of resources, consider this.  When you are NOT playing a 3d game, your graphics card is doing NOTHING and your processor is doing the window dressing.  In Mac OS X, the graphics card does the work of the windows, freeing up the processor to do more work.  This integration also gives it great game performance.  And makes it very, very easy to convert games from Linux to Mac OS X, since both use OpenGL and both use UNIX.

As a result, Mac's are GREAT gaming machines.  The downside is that there isn't as many games.

Plus theres UNIX- it doesn't crash like Windows/DOS.


Actually, there are a WHOLE STINKING LOT of Mac games.

Seriously, people, you should look into the wealth of Mac games.  Here's just ONE COMPANY:

http://www.aspyr.com/games.php/mac/complete/

There are a LOT, from Jedi Academy to BF1942 to Elite Force...

Now all we need is SFC3 and I can throw my Windows box out.

Quote:
 Hopefully I'm not tooting Apple's horn too much, but Macs make fine game machines, they just lack games.

Completely correct, except now that there are several companies that make lots of money by converting other companies' games to the Mac platform, so you can find *most* major PC games except Starfleet Command and a couple others for Mac- they just come out a few months late.

Quote:
  Also, they aren't all that expensive these days anymore, at least, if you go eMac, iMac or iBook.  The Powerbooks are more expensive, as are the Powermacs, but I feel well worth the money if that's what you need,

Actually...

The low end PowerMacs are ridiculously priced for the low amount of power ($1500 for a single processor 1.6 ghz machine?  Even if it does more calculations per hz, its nothing compared to an Athlon 64!), but the high end PowerMacs ($3000 will get you a dual 2 GHz PowerMac G5, with a Radeon 9800 and lots of RAM, PCI-X, and a 200 gigabyte hard drive and DVD-RW) is cheaper than an Alienware with about equal performance (according to benchmarks- it wins in gaming because the Alienware has a 256 MB Radeon 9800, while the best the Mac can get is a 128 MB Radeon 9800 Pro, but the Mac wins by a mile in video editting
 performance).

iBook is cheaper than most PC laptops!  Consider:  $1099, or $999 with student discount, will get you a computer with a fast processor, 6 hour max battery (generally 4 hours, 5 if you don't have wireles card and are not using the bluetooth or 3d graphics card much and aren't doing anything intensive), a Radeon 9200 (try finding a graphics card like that on a PC laptop for under $1400!), a 30 gig hard drive, a DVD/CD-RW, and built in microphone...

I had a G3 iBook just before they came out with the G4.

The 12" PowerBook has average pricing (about on par with PC's) and the 15" and 17" PowerBooks are a bit too expensive.  eMacs are very cheap, iMacs are expensive (BUT have a built in flatscreen and is one of the most compact yet powerful systems I've ever seen...the computer fits in the STAND for the LCD!).



Trust me when I say Mac rules- I have a 12" PowerBook G4






-------



Apparently I'm not the only one who reads slashdot.  Isn't it ridiculous, those system specs?

I intend to not by any more PC's for a looong time- with the number of Mac games rapidly rising, and the bloat of Windows rising even faster, I'm gonna go all Mac.

[Praxis]

BTW is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that most of Longhorn's features are ripped straight off Mac OS X?

Most of you haven't use Mac OS X (I still see people who think that Macs look like OS 8 and 9, you know, the old ugly grey boxy interface...), so you probably don't know just how much is ripped off.

Internet Explorer 7:
It has popup blocking, just like Safari.  I'll let them slip with this one because every other browser has popup blocking too...but theres more.

IE7 has the same BUTTONS as Apple's Safari...and the same colors...and the same "brushed metal" look.

The Clock:
The shiny 3d-ish old-fashioned clock that can appear in the dock on the side is ripped right off the one in Mac OS X.

The dock:
Longhorn now features a dock on the side or bottom of the screen, in addition to the Task bar.  AGAIN, ripped right off OS X.

Apple came out with the taskbar concept way back with their first OSes- then Microsoft copied it in the form of the Task Bar in Windows.

Then about 3-4 years ago, Mac OS X introduced the Dock, in addition to their task bar (not sure what its called in Mac terms).

Now in Longhorn, Microsoft is copying THAT, as well.

Okay, I'm through complaining.

Oh wait, I have more to complain about, my new computer is below the "recommended specs" to run longhorn!  ARGH!  I only have a 120 gig hard drive, and 2.6 ghz P4!

[Clark Kent]

Doesn't surprise me, although it really pisses me off that they're ripping off of the Mac OS yet AGAIN.  I still run OS 9 on my laptop, and Panther on my iMac.  I can't complain enough about what a rip windows has always been.  What gets me, though, is that OS X 10.3 runs perfectly well on a 400 mHz iMac and even slower, and Longhorn requires 4 gigahertz and a hole bunch of other crap just to get by?  blah.
I'd hope they get successfully sued this time.  I can't believe that PC's are crippled by that piece of crap operating system...

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

[Javora]

Quote:

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

I guess with those type or needs we won't be seeing Longhorn on a laptop anytime soon??!?    
 

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
I guess with those type or needs we won't be seeing Longhorn on a laptop anytime soon??!?    
   

AMD has announced that they will be releasing a dual core Opteron next year, so maybe.   They designed the Athlon 64/Opteron with the ability to be made multi-core, Intel has announced that they are retro-fitting that ability onto the Pentium 4 (along with AMD64 compatibility).    

[TalonClaw]

 

Quote:
they just lack games  

And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.

[Praxis]

Quote:
 

Quote:
they just lack games  

And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

Did you read a word I said...
Okay, let's do a quick comparison...

Intel® Pentium® M Processor 1.2GHz Low Voltage, 12.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
384MB Shared DDR SDRAM
30GB Hard Drive

Featured at
$1,818

Now lets compare with the iBook G4.

 $1,099.00       
   1GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache @ 1GHz
12-inch TFT Display
1024x768 resolution
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
30GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory
AirPort Extreme ready

Both have processors that should last around 4 or 5 hours.


Processors:
1 GHz G4 vs 1.2 GHz Pentium-M

This is the low voltage pentium M.  Both computers should last around 4-6 hours.  The G4 will probably win performance wise by a little bit, since it is a RISC processor and uses a more efficient Reduced Instruction Set Computing processor command set, and does more calculations per GHz.

Before anyone starts babbling that GHz = Speed (which it doesn't- AMD themselves say so on their web site- Intel just wants you to think it does), you should know that the Athlon 64 FX-51 is only 2.2 GHz, yet outperforms the 3.2 GHz Pentium 4...

Speed is clockrate (Hz) x calculations per clock cycle to put it simply...then you have to add in the bus speed (Macs win) and cache size (The G5 has lots of cache, though the Centrino has more than the average mobile processor as well).

So the G4 will probably get a bit better performance, the Pentium-M a bit better battery life.


Screens:

Same size.


RAM:

The Dell has an extra 128 MB RAM, which costs about $30 to buy from crucial.  Big deal, considering that laptop costs $700 more.

Not only that, but its SHARED memory, so if you try to run anything even remotely 3dish, it STEALS some of your RAM (reducing overall system performance) and sends it to the craptastic "integrated" graphics chip, to render something.


Hard drive:

Same size.



Computer size:

The iBook is slightly more than 1" thin, the Dell is slightly less (note that Apple's PowerBooks are faster, more powerful, and have DVD-RW's, and are also under 1").  However, the terribly designed Dell had to skip a few things to get to be that size, including the CD drive- it's External, meaning you have to lug it around or leave it at home.


CD Drive:

Both include a DVD/CD-RW drive, both come with burning software.

HOWEVER, the Dell's is externel.


Graphics card:

Here is where the Dell dies a horrible death.

The Dell doesn't have a graphics card, or has one of those horrible "integrated shared memory" chips that steals your PC's RAM (at a slow speed since it reroutes it from the system RAM to graphics RAM), slows your system down, and has terrible performance, and isn't designed to run anything better than SFC2 graphics-wise.

The Mac has a Radeon 9200 32 MB graphics card.  It's fast, its powerful, its a good, well priced gaming rig.  It is incredibly hard to find a PC with a Radeon 9200 for under $1500, let me tell you!


Wireless:
Neither have built in wireless- if you want wireless on the Dell, you have to stick in a card in the slot, which leaves you with a bulky computer with an antennae sticking out the side.

The Mac has a built in antennae on the side of the monitor (inside the casing, you can't see it).  You just slap in an INTERNAL WIRELESS CARD (you'll never know it was there) and bam, you're online, with better reception than the dell, as well, since it has a huge antennae.



Software:

The Mac really does well here, too.

Dell has: Windows XP Home Edition (ick), the included Windows Movie Maker (ickier...you can only save in Windows Media Video format, which ONLY people with Windows XP, ME, and 2000 can view, and only in Windows Media player.  Sorry Windows 98 users (not SE though), sorry Linux users, sorry people not using Windows Media player, and sorry Mac users.  And you can't burn to a DVD or CD either, since nothing reads it but Windows).

You also get a trial of Norton Antivirus that quits working after 90 days.

You get WordPerfect.

You get Sonic RecordNow!, an EXTREMELY simplified and not really that useful except for copying CD's  CD burning program.

You get Dell Jukebox, a really bad music player that has access to Dell's not that great music store that doesn't have as much as the competition (Napster and Apple).

And you get Dell Picture Studio, a photo editting studio.

Now lets see what the Mac has.

Mac OS X Panther 10.3 (whoops the pants off Windows XP), iMovie 4 (almost professional grade movie editting program, yet simple to use, can save stuff to both a quicktime file that will play on the web, or a DVD, or several other formats), iPhoto (one of the best Photo-organization/editting programs around), iTunes 4.5 (one of the best music playing programs around...it plays AAC, MP3, AIFF, and lots of other formats...the Windows version can convert .WMA as well)...

You get AppleWorks (word processor equivilant to WordPerfect that can open .docs... and a spreadsheet app like Excel, and a presentation program like PowerPoint...and they can save in PDF!) instead of WordPerfect...much better.

You get iDVD, so you can create a DVD and take it to the computer of someone who has a DVD-RW and burn, baby, burn!

You can burn CD's easily with built in tools, AND IN ADDITION you can use any of the iLife programs (iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and iTunes) to burn music CD's, video CD's, or Photo CD's...

You get a trial of Microsoft Office X, and Quicken World Book 2004, instead of Norton Antivirus.  And did I mention that there AREN'T viruses for Mac OS X?  

And you get Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4 and Deimos Rising, two cool games, for free.






Price:

Dell = $1800, temporarily on discount to $1500 but it won't last long

Apple iBook = $1099, or $999 if you're a student.


Apple has the better graphics card, software bundle, better performance processor, built in DVD/CD-RW drive, and a much better operating system.

Which is more expensive, I ask you?

And did you look over all the games at    Aspyr  for Mac?  With all the games converters these days, being a Mac user doesn't mean you don't get the latest games, you just get them a couple months late.

[Death_Merchant]

Quote:
BTW is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that most of Longhorn's features are ripped straight off Mac OS X?
 

No, it's not just you Praxis.
It's also PCMag. Their one-page blurb regarding the WinHEC 2004 unveiling of Longhorn is here.

You know what they say about imitation......  

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
 And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

I won't argue what {rxis already has, but will add: some of us do more than just play games on our machines...

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[Clark Kent]

Quote:

You know what they say about imitation......  

It's copyright infringment?

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[Praxis]

LOL, good one.

[ActiveX]

Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
LOL, good one.  

 

I've heard of people building macs, and have run accross generic parts every now and again, I just don't think it happens all that much,

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?  

In this case it was fair as he was talking about laptops.  Do you know anyone who has built a personal laptop?  I don't and 3 of the 4 computers surrounding me were built by me and the 4th has been modified substantially.  

[Rondo_GE]

and here's Linux!  

[Praxis]

Oh, Linux is definitely awesome, but if you're not a UNIX nerd it has a steep learning curve.

I *still* haven't gotten WINE working.  I finally got all the stuff for WineX...and guess what, I need to compile it, no problem...(btw getting the stuff from CVS was a nightmare)

Oh, wait, I download GCC and it's in source code.  How do I compile GCC without GCC?

lol, let me say this.

I've tried all 3 operating systems, and heres my opinion on it:

Windows simplifies a lot of the difficult things, like networking and programming, and makes the simple stuff (like playing games) WAY more difficult than they should be.

Linux simplifies the simple things (web browsing, few viruses to worry about, Office work, very simple), but overcomplicates the difficult things (networking and programming, for example).  It even is hard to install stuff.  To be fair, if you CAN figure out how to do these things in Linux, it is WAY more flexible than Windows.

Mac OS X makes everything simple- both the difficult things and simple things.  It's a great OS, and if you're a UNIX geek and feel the need to get dirty in the OS, you can still pull up terminal and start compiling stuff like nuts  It's got both sides of the coins- userfriendliness AND ability.

[ActiveX]

Quote:

Quote:
Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?  

In this case it was fair as he was talking about laptops.  Do you know anyone who has built a personal laptop?  I don't and 3 of the 4 computers surrounding me were built by me and the 4th has been modified substantially.  

Well ppl dont seriously game on their laptops...usually...

And I havent looked too hard to see if I could, Im talking about desktops...

[Praxis]

Generally, its best to just buy it from Apple.

If you really want to, its possible to buy the parts from IBM to build a Mac...but you won't have the warranty, it won't look as cool, it won't necessarily have the same OS hardware support (which is one reason why XP is so buggy...Mac OS X has a set of hardware profiles for each mac you could run it on...giving it extreme stability for those systems.  If you use it with a nonsupported system, it has to tailor a hardware profile, so it won't always be as good hardware-wise).

[TalonClaw]

Quote:

Quote:
 And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

I won't argue what {rxis already has, but will add: some of us do more than just play games on our machines...

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

Praxis, I'll take your word for it that they are cheaper now but in the past they were always over priced compared to a PC.  There is just not enough of a market out there to produce games on them or the industry would.  Sure I use my PC for more than games and it works great.  But I like to play games too.

 

[Praxis]

You really should check out Aspyr's Mac Games section.

Just one game converter's selection:

007? Nightfire? - Mac
4X4 Evolution 2 - Mac
Star Wars® Jedi Knight® II: Jedi Outcast? - Mac
Star Wars® Jedi Knight®: Jedi Academy? - Mac
Star Wars®: Galactic Battlegrounds? - Mac
Star Wars®: Knights of the Old Republic® - Mac
American McGee's Alice? - Mac
Battlefield 1942? Deluxe Edition - Mac
BloodRayne? - Mac
Call of Duty? - Mac
Clive Barker's Undying? - Mac
Command & Conquer? Generals - Mac
Cro-Mag Rally - Mac
Delta Force®:Black Hawk Down® - Mac
Escape from Monkey Island? - Mac
Extreme Fun Compilation - Mac
Harry Potter? and the Chamber of Secrets? - Mac
Harry Potter? and the Sorcerer's Stone? - Mac
Homeworld®2 - Mac
IPuppet Presents: Colin's Classic Cards - Mac
Indiana Jones® and the Emperor's Tomb? - Mac
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer® - Mac
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer® - PC
Lara Croft Tomb Raider?: The Angel of Darkness? - Mac
Law & Order?: Dead On The Money - Mac
Leave the Lights On Compilation - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault? Breakthrough - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault? Deluxe Edition - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault?Spearhead Expansion Pack - Mac
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault? - Mac
NASCAR® Racing 2002 Season - Mac
NASCAR® Racing 2003 Season - Mac
Otto Matic? - Mac
Return to Castle Wolfenstein? - Mac
Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire? - Mac
SimCity? 4 - Mac
SimCity? 4 Rush Hour - Mac
Space Colony? - Mac
Spider-Man? - Mac
SpyHunter® - Mac
SpyHunter® - PC
Star Trek?: Voyager ® Elite Force? Expansion Pack Combo - Mac
Star Trek?: Voyager® Elite Force? II - Mac
The Lord of the Rings?; The Return of the King? - Mac
The Sims? - Mac
The Sims? Hot Date - Mac
The Sims? House Party - Mac
The Sims? Livin' Large Combo - Mac
The Sims? Makin' Magic - Mac
The Sims? Superstar - Mac
The Sims? Unleashed - Mac
The Sims? Vacation - Mac
Tiger Woods PGA® Tour 2003 - Mac
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon?: Desert Siege? - Mac
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® 3: Raven Shield® - Mac
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell® - Mac
Tomb Raider® Chronicles - Mac
Tomb Raider®: The Last Revelation - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater? 2 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater?3 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater® 4 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater® 4 - PC
Wakeboarding Unleashed? Featuring Shaun Murray - Mac
Wakeboarding Unleashed? Featuring Shaun Murray - PC
X2 Wolverine's? Revenge - Mac
Zoo Tycoon? - Mac
Zoo Tycoon?: Marine Mania? Expansion Pack - Mac


Notice Battlefield 1942 and Jedi Academy?

Halo is also out for Mac, and Halo 2 is coming.  I think Battlefield Vietnam is also coming.  I *hope* Star Wars: Battlefront will be on the Mac as well.

This is just from *one* of the Mac game creators/converters.

There are plenty of games out there.

Besides, it never hurts to keep a spare Windows PC with a graphics card around for the Windows-only games like SFC3...


Anyway I don't intend to upgrade to Longhorn for a loong time.  Maybe someday I'll get Longhorn, but only went I can get a 5 GHz PC for around $500 (since Longhorn's minimum recommended will be 4 GHz) with a good graphics card, and only if future games require a computer that powerful and require Longhorn.  If I can get by without having to waste my money on Longhorn (note that each version of Windows is more expensive than the last:  3.1 was $50, 98 was $100, 2000 Pro was $200, and XP Pro is $300...what'll Longhorn be?

I'll stick to my Mac for now, where my processor isn't bogged down by such a bloated operating system.  This 2.6 GHz P4 will probably be my last PC desktop for a while (at least for me, there is one member in my family who likes Windows, everyone else likes Mac).  My next desktop will be my first Mac desktop (i've only owned laptops so far).

[Clark Kent]

Hey praxis, I'm sure I asked this before, but what systems do you run?  Currently I've got my old Compaq presario- 1.2 GHz, Graphite iMac DV SE 400mHz G3, Powerbook 1400c/166 uprgraded to 233 mHz G3, and as a hobby to upgrade and play with, a powermac 7500 with a DP 200 mHz 604e in it (I never really use it, i just have it solely to take apart and tinker with).  Since I start school soon, I hope to buy a new iBook G4, 1.2 GHz with a student discount in the next couple weeks.
So like I said, what you got?  and what you getting?

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

 

[Praxis]

Well, I've got a couple older PC's lying around that other people in the family use, but discounting those...

I've got me old 900 mhz Celeron with a Geforce 2 MX 400...

My newer Sony VAIO 2.6 GHz Pentium 4 with a 128 MB Geforce FX 5200

My PowerBook Pismo G3 500 mhz

And my newer PowerBook G4 12" 1 GHz w/Geforce FX 5200.  They just bumped the speed to 1.25, too

The PowerBook is a sweet machine

All PC's running Winblows XP.  I just hacked my Start button this morning to show a pic of Bill Gates of Borg instead of the windows logo.

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

[Javora]

Yikes, with those type of specs my next OS might not be a Micro$oft OS.  But then if Apple OS could run on the Intel/AMD platform I would have swiched a long time ago.  Or at least run a dual system.
 

[Sirgod]

 

Quote:
  Pretty hefty. But will it run SFC?

Hell If I know, I'm still trying to Get XP to run Tom Clancy's SSN. I'm about ready to copy my disk, and try running them off a Virtual CD rom Via Daemon tools. Compatibility mode for both win 95 or win 98 doesn't seem to work.

Stephen

[Clark Kent]

It's a communist plot, and it's unacceptable.  I can no longer sit back and allowcommunist infiltration,communist indoctrination, communist subversion, AND the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

CK

P.S.  i like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

[Baker]

 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).

[S'Raek]

This is exactly why I play all my games on a console.    

[ActiveX]

Because windows takes compuguts to run?

PC games are still better looking :P

[Sirgod]

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen

[NJAntman]

Those specs sound down right expensive! Looks like I'll be running XP for the next decade at least.  

Some time around 2018, "Son, forget about that Harvard scholarship, Mom and I need you to sign with the Yankees so we can afford that new computer."  

[Hilton]

I bet Gates has stock in hardware companies! That's the only reason!

 

[Kmelew]

Quote:

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen  

Ask and ye shall receive...

 DosBox

I recently used this to play Privateer on XP, which used to be impossible due to Origin's proprietary JEMM memory manager.

Aces of the Pacific and all Ultima games appear to be supported.  

[Sirgod]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen  

Ask and ye shall receive...

 DosBox

I recently used this to play Privateer on XP, which used to be impossible due to Origin's proprietary JEMM memory manager.

Aces of the Pacific and all Ultima games appear to be supported.  

Thanks again Kmelew. I keep forgetting about that proggy.

Stephen

[Strafer]

There's also  ScummVM for the LucasArts games.

[TalonClaw]

*CHOKE*  They've got to be kidding.

[Death_Merchant]

Holy Cow!

I guess Dr. Soong did not use Longhorn for Data. His positronic net isn't up to spec......  

[Baker]

 Thanks guys, but I've already got Dos Box, had it running and still had the same problem. I was thinking of using an old computer of mine, formatting the hard drive and installing 98se (bare bones) and installing Dos Box. Either that or possibly an old version of dos.

 I tried using memmaker, loading a memory fix in dos box (keeping in mind that I was running dos box off this machine like a normal program) but was not successful.

 Most of the time I just wish they would bring out an updated version or have another ww2 sim just like it (the number of aircraft was astounding).

[Maxillius]

Quote:

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

More reasons to buy Apple.

[Baker]

 They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
 They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.  

Hopefully I'm not tooting Apple's horn too much, but Macs make fine game machines, they just lack games.  Also, they aren't all that expensive these days anymore, at least, if you go eMac, iMac or iBook.  The Powerbooks are more expensive, as are the Powermacs, but I feel well worth the money if that's what you need,

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

[Praxis]

Quote:
They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.  

 OpenGL integration into the operating system...even the desktop is 3d.  Before you call this a waste of resources, consider this.  When you are NOT playing a 3d game, your graphics card is doing NOTHING and your processor is doing the window dressing.  In Mac OS X, the graphics card does the work of the windows, freeing up the processor to do more work.  This integration also gives it great game performance.  And makes it very, very easy to convert games from Linux to Mac OS X, since both use OpenGL and both use UNIX.

As a result, Mac's are GREAT gaming machines.  The downside is that there isn't as many games.

Plus theres UNIX- it doesn't crash like Windows/DOS.


Actually, there are a WHOLE STINKING LOT of Mac games.

Seriously, people, you should look into the wealth of Mac games.  Here's just ONE COMPANY:

http://www.aspyr.com/games.php/mac/complete/

There are a LOT, from Jedi Academy to BF1942 to Elite Force...

Now all we need is SFC3 and I can throw my Windows box out.

Quote:
 Hopefully I'm not tooting Apple's horn too much, but Macs make fine game machines, they just lack games.

Completely correct, except now that there are several companies that make lots of money by converting other companies' games to the Mac platform, so you can find *most* major PC games except Starfleet Command and a couple others for Mac- they just come out a few months late.

Quote:
  Also, they aren't all that expensive these days anymore, at least, if you go eMac, iMac or iBook.  The Powerbooks are more expensive, as are the Powermacs, but I feel well worth the money if that's what you need,

Actually...

The low end PowerMacs are ridiculously priced for the low amount of power ($1500 for a single processor 1.6 ghz machine?  Even if it does more calculations per hz, its nothing compared to an Athlon 64!), but the high end PowerMacs ($3000 will get you a dual 2 GHz PowerMac G5, with a Radeon 9800 and lots of RAM, PCI-X, and a 200 gigabyte hard drive and DVD-RW) is cheaper than an Alienware with about equal performance (according to benchmarks- it wins in gaming because the Alienware has a 256 MB Radeon 9800, while the best the Mac can get is a 128 MB Radeon 9800 Pro, but the Mac wins by a mile in video editting
 performance).

iBook is cheaper than most PC laptops!  Consider:  $1099, or $999 with student discount, will get you a computer with a fast processor, 6 hour max battery (generally 4 hours, 5 if you don't have wireles card and are not using the bluetooth or 3d graphics card much and aren't doing anything intensive), a Radeon 9200 (try finding a graphics card like that on a PC laptop for under $1400!), a 30 gig hard drive, a DVD/CD-RW, and built in microphone...

I had a G3 iBook just before they came out with the G4.

The 12" PowerBook has average pricing (about on par with PC's) and the 15" and 17" PowerBooks are a bit too expensive.  eMacs are very cheap, iMacs are expensive (BUT have a built in flatscreen and is one of the most compact yet powerful systems I've ever seen...the computer fits in the STAND for the LCD!).



Trust me when I say Mac rules- I have a 12" PowerBook G4






-------



Apparently I'm not the only one who reads slashdot.  Isn't it ridiculous, those system specs?

I intend to not by any more PC's for a looong time- with the number of Mac games rapidly rising, and the bloat of Windows rising even faster, I'm gonna go all Mac.

[Praxis]

BTW is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that most of Longhorn's features are ripped straight off Mac OS X?

Most of you haven't use Mac OS X (I still see people who think that Macs look like OS 8 and 9, you know, the old ugly grey boxy interface...), so you probably don't know just how much is ripped off.

Internet Explorer 7:
It has popup blocking, just like Safari.  I'll let them slip with this one because every other browser has popup blocking too...but theres more.

IE7 has the same BUTTONS as Apple's Safari...and the same colors...and the same "brushed metal" look.

The Clock:
The shiny 3d-ish old-fashioned clock that can appear in the dock on the side is ripped right off the one in Mac OS X.

The dock:
Longhorn now features a dock on the side or bottom of the screen, in addition to the Task bar.  AGAIN, ripped right off OS X.

Apple came out with the taskbar concept way back with their first OSes- then Microsoft copied it in the form of the Task Bar in Windows.

Then about 3-4 years ago, Mac OS X introduced the Dock, in addition to their task bar (not sure what its called in Mac terms).

Now in Longhorn, Microsoft is copying THAT, as well.

Okay, I'm through complaining.

Oh wait, I have more to complain about, my new computer is below the "recommended specs" to run longhorn!  ARGH!  I only have a 120 gig hard drive, and 2.6 ghz P4!

[Clark Kent]

Doesn't surprise me, although it really pisses me off that they're ripping off of the Mac OS yet AGAIN.  I still run OS 9 on my laptop, and Panther on my iMac.  I can't complain enough about what a rip windows has always been.  What gets me, though, is that OS X 10.3 runs perfectly well on a 400 mHz iMac and even slower, and Longhorn requires 4 gigahertz and a hole bunch of other crap just to get by?  blah.
I'd hope they get successfully sued this time.  I can't believe that PC's are crippled by that piece of crap operating system...

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

[Javora]

Quote:

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

I guess with those type or needs we won't be seeing Longhorn on a laptop anytime soon??!?    
 

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
I guess with those type or needs we won't be seeing Longhorn on a laptop anytime soon??!?    
   

AMD has announced that they will be releasing a dual core Opteron next year, so maybe.   They designed the Athlon 64/Opteron with the ability to be made multi-core, Intel has announced that they are retro-fitting that ability onto the Pentium 4 (along with AMD64 compatibility).    

[TalonClaw]

 

Quote:
they just lack games  

And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.

[Praxis]

Quote:
 

Quote:
they just lack games  

And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

Did you read a word I said...
Okay, let's do a quick comparison...

Intel® Pentium® M Processor 1.2GHz Low Voltage, 12.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
384MB Shared DDR SDRAM
30GB Hard Drive

Featured at
$1,818

Now lets compare with the iBook G4.

 $1,099.00       
   1GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache @ 1GHz
12-inch TFT Display
1024x768 resolution
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
30GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory
AirPort Extreme ready

Both have processors that should last around 4 or 5 hours.


Processors:
1 GHz G4 vs 1.2 GHz Pentium-M

This is the low voltage pentium M.  Both computers should last around 4-6 hours.  The G4 will probably win performance wise by a little bit, since it is a RISC processor and uses a more efficient Reduced Instruction Set Computing processor command set, and does more calculations per GHz.

Before anyone starts babbling that GHz = Speed (which it doesn't- AMD themselves say so on their web site- Intel just wants you to think it does), you should know that the Athlon 64 FX-51 is only 2.2 GHz, yet outperforms the 3.2 GHz Pentium 4...

Speed is clockrate (Hz) x calculations per clock cycle to put it simply...then you have to add in the bus speed (Macs win) and cache size (The G5 has lots of cache, though the Centrino has more than the average mobile processor as well).

So the G4 will probably get a bit better performance, the Pentium-M a bit better battery life.


Screens:

Same size.


RAM:

The Dell has an extra 128 MB RAM, which costs about $30 to buy from crucial.  Big deal, considering that laptop costs $700 more.

Not only that, but its SHARED memory, so if you try to run anything even remotely 3dish, it STEALS some of your RAM (reducing overall system performance) and sends it to the craptastic "integrated" graphics chip, to render something.


Hard drive:

Same size.



Computer size:

The iBook is slightly more than 1" thin, the Dell is slightly less (note that Apple's PowerBooks are faster, more powerful, and have DVD-RW's, and are also under 1").  However, the terribly designed Dell had to skip a few things to get to be that size, including the CD drive- it's External, meaning you have to lug it around or leave it at home.


CD Drive:

Both include a DVD/CD-RW drive, both come with burning software.

HOWEVER, the Dell's is externel.


Graphics card:

Here is where the Dell dies a horrible death.

The Dell doesn't have a graphics card, or has one of those horrible "integrated shared memory" chips that steals your PC's RAM (at a slow speed since it reroutes it from the system RAM to graphics RAM), slows your system down, and has terrible performance, and isn't designed to run anything better than SFC2 graphics-wise.

The Mac has a Radeon 9200 32 MB graphics card.  It's fast, its powerful, its a good, well priced gaming rig.  It is incredibly hard to find a PC with a Radeon 9200 for under $1500, let me tell you!


Wireless:
Neither have built in wireless- if you want wireless on the Dell, you have to stick in a card in the slot, which leaves you with a bulky computer with an antennae sticking out the side.

The Mac has a built in antennae on the side of the monitor (inside the casing, you can't see it).  You just slap in an INTERNAL WIRELESS CARD (you'll never know it was there) and bam, you're online, with better reception than the dell, as well, since it has a huge antennae.



Software:

The Mac really does well here, too.

Dell has: Windows XP Home Edition (ick), the included Windows Movie Maker (ickier...you can only save in Windows Media Video format, which ONLY people with Windows XP, ME, and 2000 can view, and only in Windows Media player.  Sorry Windows 98 users (not SE though), sorry Linux users, sorry people not using Windows Media player, and sorry Mac users.  And you can't burn to a DVD or CD either, since nothing reads it but Windows).

You also get a trial of Norton Antivirus that quits working after 90 days.

You get WordPerfect.

You get Sonic RecordNow!, an EXTREMELY simplified and not really that useful except for copying CD's  CD burning program.

You get Dell Jukebox, a really bad music player that has access to Dell's not that great music store that doesn't have as much as the competition (Napster and Apple).

And you get Dell Picture Studio, a photo editting studio.

Now lets see what the Mac has.

Mac OS X Panther 10.3 (whoops the pants off Windows XP), iMovie 4 (almost professional grade movie editting program, yet simple to use, can save stuff to both a quicktime file that will play on the web, or a DVD, or several other formats), iPhoto (one of the best Photo-organization/editting programs around), iTunes 4.5 (one of the best music playing programs around...it plays AAC, MP3, AIFF, and lots of other formats...the Windows version can convert .WMA as well)...

You get AppleWorks (word processor equivilant to WordPerfect that can open .docs... and a spreadsheet app like Excel, and a presentation program like PowerPoint...and they can save in PDF!) instead of WordPerfect...much better.

You get iDVD, so you can create a DVD and take it to the computer of someone who has a DVD-RW and burn, baby, burn!

You can burn CD's easily with built in tools, AND IN ADDITION you can use any of the iLife programs (iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and iTunes) to burn music CD's, video CD's, or Photo CD's...

You get a trial of Microsoft Office X, and Quicken World Book 2004, instead of Norton Antivirus.  And did I mention that there AREN'T viruses for Mac OS X?  

And you get Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4 and Deimos Rising, two cool games, for free.






Price:

Dell = $1800, temporarily on discount to $1500 but it won't last long

Apple iBook = $1099, or $999 if you're a student.


Apple has the better graphics card, software bundle, better performance processor, built in DVD/CD-RW drive, and a much better operating system.

Which is more expensive, I ask you?

And did you look over all the games at    Aspyr  for Mac?  With all the games converters these days, being a Mac user doesn't mean you don't get the latest games, you just get them a couple months late.

[Death_Merchant]

Quote:
BTW is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that most of Longhorn's features are ripped straight off Mac OS X?
 

No, it's not just you Praxis.
It's also PCMag. Their one-page blurb regarding the WinHEC 2004 unveiling of Longhorn is here.

You know what they say about imitation......  

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
 And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

I won't argue what {rxis already has, but will add: some of us do more than just play games on our machines...

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[Clark Kent]

Quote:

You know what they say about imitation......  

It's copyright infringment?

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[Praxis]

LOL, good one.

[ActiveX]

Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
LOL, good one.  

 

I've heard of people building macs, and have run accross generic parts every now and again, I just don't think it happens all that much,

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?  

In this case it was fair as he was talking about laptops.  Do you know anyone who has built a personal laptop?  I don't and 3 of the 4 computers surrounding me were built by me and the 4th has been modified substantially.  

[Rondo_GE]

and here's Linux!  

[Praxis]

Oh, Linux is definitely awesome, but if you're not a UNIX nerd it has a steep learning curve.

I *still* haven't gotten WINE working.  I finally got all the stuff for WineX...and guess what, I need to compile it, no problem...(btw getting the stuff from CVS was a nightmare)

Oh, wait, I download GCC and it's in source code.  How do I compile GCC without GCC?

lol, let me say this.

I've tried all 3 operating systems, and heres my opinion on it:

Windows simplifies a lot of the difficult things, like networking and programming, and makes the simple stuff (like playing games) WAY more difficult than they should be.

Linux simplifies the simple things (web browsing, few viruses to worry about, Office work, very simple), but overcomplicates the difficult things (networking and programming, for example).  It even is hard to install stuff.  To be fair, if you CAN figure out how to do these things in Linux, it is WAY more flexible than Windows.

Mac OS X makes everything simple- both the difficult things and simple things.  It's a great OS, and if you're a UNIX geek and feel the need to get dirty in the OS, you can still pull up terminal and start compiling stuff like nuts  It's got both sides of the coins- userfriendliness AND ability.

[ActiveX]

Quote:

Quote:
Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?  

In this case it was fair as he was talking about laptops.  Do you know anyone who has built a personal laptop?  I don't and 3 of the 4 computers surrounding me were built by me and the 4th has been modified substantially.  

Well ppl dont seriously game on their laptops...usually...

And I havent looked too hard to see if I could, Im talking about desktops...

[Praxis]

Generally, its best to just buy it from Apple.

If you really want to, its possible to buy the parts from IBM to build a Mac...but you won't have the warranty, it won't look as cool, it won't necessarily have the same OS hardware support (which is one reason why XP is so buggy...Mac OS X has a set of hardware profiles for each mac you could run it on...giving it extreme stability for those systems.  If you use it with a nonsupported system, it has to tailor a hardware profile, so it won't always be as good hardware-wise).

[TalonClaw]

Quote:

Quote:
 And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

I won't argue what {rxis already has, but will add: some of us do more than just play games on our machines...

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

Praxis, I'll take your word for it that they are cheaper now but in the past they were always over priced compared to a PC.  There is just not enough of a market out there to produce games on them or the industry would.  Sure I use my PC for more than games and it works great.  But I like to play games too.

 

[Praxis]

You really should check out Aspyr's Mac Games section.

Just one game converter's selection:

007? Nightfire? - Mac
4X4 Evolution 2 - Mac
Star Wars® Jedi Knight® II: Jedi Outcast? - Mac
Star Wars® Jedi Knight®: Jedi Academy? - Mac
Star Wars®: Galactic Battlegrounds? - Mac
Star Wars®: Knights of the Old Republic® - Mac
American McGee's Alice? - Mac
Battlefield 1942? Deluxe Edition - Mac
BloodRayne? - Mac
Call of Duty? - Mac
Clive Barker's Undying? - Mac
Command & Conquer? Generals - Mac
Cro-Mag Rally - Mac
Delta Force®:Black Hawk Down® - Mac
Escape from Monkey Island? - Mac
Extreme Fun Compilation - Mac
Harry Potter? and the Chamber of Secrets? - Mac
Harry Potter? and the Sorcerer's Stone? - Mac
Homeworld®2 - Mac
IPuppet Presents: Colin's Classic Cards - Mac
Indiana Jones® and the Emperor's Tomb? - Mac
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer® - Mac
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer® - PC
Lara Croft Tomb Raider?: The Angel of Darkness? - Mac
Law & Order?: Dead On The Money - Mac
Leave the Lights On Compilation - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault? Breakthrough - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault? Deluxe Edition - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault?Spearhead Expansion Pack - Mac
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault? - Mac
NASCAR® Racing 2002 Season - Mac
NASCAR® Racing 2003 Season - Mac
Otto Matic? - Mac
Return to Castle Wolfenstein? - Mac
Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire? - Mac
SimCity? 4 - Mac
SimCity? 4 Rush Hour - Mac
Space Colony? - Mac
Spider-Man? - Mac
SpyHunter® - Mac
SpyHunter® - PC
Star Trek?: Voyager ® Elite Force? Expansion Pack Combo - Mac
Star Trek?: Voyager® Elite Force? II - Mac
The Lord of the Rings?; The Return of the King? - Mac
The Sims? - Mac
The Sims? Hot Date - Mac
The Sims? House Party - Mac
The Sims? Livin' Large Combo - Mac
The Sims? Makin' Magic - Mac
The Sims? Superstar - Mac
The Sims? Unleashed - Mac
The Sims? Vacation - Mac
Tiger Woods PGA® Tour 2003 - Mac
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon?: Desert Siege? - Mac
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® 3: Raven Shield® - Mac
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell® - Mac
Tomb Raider® Chronicles - Mac
Tomb Raider®: The Last Revelation - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater? 2 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater?3 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater® 4 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater® 4 - PC
Wakeboarding Unleashed? Featuring Shaun Murray - Mac
Wakeboarding Unleashed? Featuring Shaun Murray - PC
X2 Wolverine's? Revenge - Mac
Zoo Tycoon? - Mac
Zoo Tycoon?: Marine Mania? Expansion Pack - Mac


Notice Battlefield 1942 and Jedi Academy?

Halo is also out for Mac, and Halo 2 is coming.  I think Battlefield Vietnam is also coming.  I *hope* Star Wars: Battlefront will be on the Mac as well.

This is just from *one* of the Mac game creators/converters.

There are plenty of games out there.

Besides, it never hurts to keep a spare Windows PC with a graphics card around for the Windows-only games like SFC3...


Anyway I don't intend to upgrade to Longhorn for a loong time.  Maybe someday I'll get Longhorn, but only went I can get a 5 GHz PC for around $500 (since Longhorn's minimum recommended will be 4 GHz) with a good graphics card, and only if future games require a computer that powerful and require Longhorn.  If I can get by without having to waste my money on Longhorn (note that each version of Windows is more expensive than the last:  3.1 was $50, 98 was $100, 2000 Pro was $200, and XP Pro is $300...what'll Longhorn be?

I'll stick to my Mac for now, where my processor isn't bogged down by such a bloated operating system.  This 2.6 GHz P4 will probably be my last PC desktop for a while (at least for me, there is one member in my family who likes Windows, everyone else likes Mac).  My next desktop will be my first Mac desktop (i've only owned laptops so far).

[Clark Kent]

Hey praxis, I'm sure I asked this before, but what systems do you run?  Currently I've got my old Compaq presario- 1.2 GHz, Graphite iMac DV SE 400mHz G3, Powerbook 1400c/166 uprgraded to 233 mHz G3, and as a hobby to upgrade and play with, a powermac 7500 with a DP 200 mHz 604e in it (I never really use it, i just have it solely to take apart and tinker with).  Since I start school soon, I hope to buy a new iBook G4, 1.2 GHz with a student discount in the next couple weeks.
So like I said, what you got?  and what you getting?

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

 

[Praxis]

Well, I've got a couple older PC's lying around that other people in the family use, but discounting those...

I've got me old 900 mhz Celeron with a Geforce 2 MX 400...

My newer Sony VAIO 2.6 GHz Pentium 4 with a 128 MB Geforce FX 5200

My PowerBook Pismo G3 500 mhz

And my newer PowerBook G4 12" 1 GHz w/Geforce FX 5200.  They just bumped the speed to 1.25, too

The PowerBook is a sweet machine

All PC's running Winblows XP.  I just hacked my Start button this morning to show a pic of Bill Gates of Borg instead of the windows logo.

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

[Javora]

Yikes, with those type of specs my next OS might not be a Micro$oft OS.  But then if Apple OS could run on the Intel/AMD platform I would have swiched a long time ago.  Or at least run a dual system.
 

[Sirgod]

 

Quote:
  Pretty hefty. But will it run SFC?

Hell If I know, I'm still trying to Get XP to run Tom Clancy's SSN. I'm about ready to copy my disk, and try running them off a Virtual CD rom Via Daemon tools. Compatibility mode for both win 95 or win 98 doesn't seem to work.

Stephen

[Clark Kent]

It's a communist plot, and it's unacceptable.  I can no longer sit back and allowcommunist infiltration,communist indoctrination, communist subversion, AND the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids!

CK

P.S.  i like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

[Baker]

 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).

[S'Raek]

This is exactly why I play all my games on a console.    

[ActiveX]

Because windows takes compuguts to run?

PC games are still better looking :P

[Sirgod]

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen

[NJAntman]

Those specs sound down right expensive! Looks like I'll be running XP for the next decade at least.  

Some time around 2018, "Son, forget about that Harvard scholarship, Mom and I need you to sign with the Yankees so we can afford that new computer."  

[Hilton]

I bet Gates has stock in hardware companies! That's the only reason!

 

[Kmelew]

Quote:

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen  

Ask and ye shall receive...

 DosBox

I recently used this to play Privateer on XP, which used to be impossible due to Origin's proprietary JEMM memory manager.

Aces of the Pacific and all Ultima games appear to be supported.  

[Sirgod]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
 Hey I'm still trying to get Aces of the Pacific to run on my XP machine. I have the collectors edition cd but for some stupid reason it keeps saying I lack Expanded memory or conventional memory. The aces games were great aircraft games (too bad CFS sucks). If history is any example of trends then current games may not work. Of course in such a case, I would recommend getting another pc and keeping the current one for current games (wish I had a pc configured to run Aces and US navy fighters).  

let me get a bit more awake, and I might be able to help you with. I know the old Dos Ultima Games needed alot of tweaks beacuse of the way the memory manage's where set up. I seem to recall changing Files=25 and something else in a Man made shortcut to get It to run.

It might be the same with Aces.

stephen  

Ask and ye shall receive...

 DosBox

I recently used this to play Privateer on XP, which used to be impossible due to Origin's proprietary JEMM memory manager.

Aces of the Pacific and all Ultima games appear to be supported.  

Thanks again Kmelew. I keep forgetting about that proggy.

Stephen

[Strafer]

There's also  ScummVM for the LucasArts games.

[TalonClaw]

*CHOKE*  They've got to be kidding.

[Death_Merchant]

Holy Cow!

I guess Dr. Soong did not use Longhorn for Data. His positronic net isn't up to spec......  

[Baker]

 Thanks guys, but I've already got Dos Box, had it running and still had the same problem. I was thinking of using an old computer of mine, formatting the hard drive and installing 98se (bare bones) and installing Dos Box. Either that or possibly an old version of dos.

 I tried using memmaker, loading a memory fix in dos box (keeping in mind that I was running dos box off this machine like a normal program) but was not successful.

 Most of the time I just wish they would bring out an updated version or have another ww2 sim just like it (the number of aircraft was astounding).

[Maxillius]

Quote:

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

More reasons to buy Apple.

[Baker]

 They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
 They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.  

Hopefully I'm not tooting Apple's horn too much, but Macs make fine game machines, they just lack games.  Also, they aren't all that expensive these days anymore, at least, if you go eMac, iMac or iBook.  The Powerbooks are more expensive, as are the Powermacs, but I feel well worth the money if that's what you need,

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian ladies as well...

[Praxis]

Quote:
They are good computers but aren't really good games machines. Personally I would buy one if they didn't cost so much.  

 OpenGL integration into the operating system...even the desktop is 3d.  Before you call this a waste of resources, consider this.  When you are NOT playing a 3d game, your graphics card is doing NOTHING and your processor is doing the window dressing.  In Mac OS X, the graphics card does the work of the windows, freeing up the processor to do more work.  This integration also gives it great game performance.  And makes it very, very easy to convert games from Linux to Mac OS X, since both use OpenGL and both use UNIX.

As a result, Mac's are GREAT gaming machines.  The downside is that there isn't as many games.

Plus theres UNIX- it doesn't crash like Windows/DOS.


Actually, there are a WHOLE STINKING LOT of Mac games.

Seriously, people, you should look into the wealth of Mac games.  Here's just ONE COMPANY:

http://www.aspyr.com/games.php/mac/complete/

There are a LOT, from Jedi Academy to BF1942 to Elite Force...

Now all we need is SFC3 and I can throw my Windows box out.

Quote:
 Hopefully I'm not tooting Apple's horn too much, but Macs make fine game machines, they just lack games.

Completely correct, except now that there are several companies that make lots of money by converting other companies' games to the Mac platform, so you can find *most* major PC games except Starfleet Command and a couple others for Mac- they just come out a few months late.

Quote:
  Also, they aren't all that expensive these days anymore, at least, if you go eMac, iMac or iBook.  The Powerbooks are more expensive, as are the Powermacs, but I feel well worth the money if that's what you need,

Actually...

The low end PowerMacs are ridiculously priced for the low amount of power ($1500 for a single processor 1.6 ghz machine?  Even if it does more calculations per hz, its nothing compared to an Athlon 64!), but the high end PowerMacs ($3000 will get you a dual 2 GHz PowerMac G5, with a Radeon 9800 and lots of RAM, PCI-X, and a 200 gigabyte hard drive and DVD-RW) is cheaper than an Alienware with about equal performance (according to benchmarks- it wins in gaming because the Alienware has a 256 MB Radeon 9800, while the best the Mac can get is a 128 MB Radeon 9800 Pro, but the Mac wins by a mile in video editting
 performance).

iBook is cheaper than most PC laptops!  Consider:  $1099, or $999 with student discount, will get you a computer with a fast processor, 6 hour max battery (generally 4 hours, 5 if you don't have wireles card and are not using the bluetooth or 3d graphics card much and aren't doing anything intensive), a Radeon 9200 (try finding a graphics card like that on a PC laptop for under $1400!), a 30 gig hard drive, a DVD/CD-RW, and built in microphone...

I had a G3 iBook just before they came out with the G4.

The 12" PowerBook has average pricing (about on par with PC's) and the 15" and 17" PowerBooks are a bit too expensive.  eMacs are very cheap, iMacs are expensive (BUT have a built in flatscreen and is one of the most compact yet powerful systems I've ever seen...the computer fits in the STAND for the LCD!).



Trust me when I say Mac rules- I have a 12" PowerBook G4






-------



Apparently I'm not the only one who reads slashdot.  Isn't it ridiculous, those system specs?

I intend to not by any more PC's for a looong time- with the number of Mac games rapidly rising, and the bloat of Windows rising even faster, I'm gonna go all Mac.

[Praxis]

BTW is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that most of Longhorn's features are ripped straight off Mac OS X?

Most of you haven't use Mac OS X (I still see people who think that Macs look like OS 8 and 9, you know, the old ugly grey boxy interface...), so you probably don't know just how much is ripped off.

Internet Explorer 7:
It has popup blocking, just like Safari.  I'll let them slip with this one because every other browser has popup blocking too...but theres more.

IE7 has the same BUTTONS as Apple's Safari...and the same colors...and the same "brushed metal" look.

The Clock:
The shiny 3d-ish old-fashioned clock that can appear in the dock on the side is ripped right off the one in Mac OS X.

The dock:
Longhorn now features a dock on the side or bottom of the screen, in addition to the Task bar.  AGAIN, ripped right off OS X.

Apple came out with the taskbar concept way back with their first OSes- then Microsoft copied it in the form of the Task Bar in Windows.

Then about 3-4 years ago, Mac OS X introduced the Dock, in addition to their task bar (not sure what its called in Mac terms).

Now in Longhorn, Microsoft is copying THAT, as well.

Okay, I'm through complaining.

Oh wait, I have more to complain about, my new computer is below the "recommended specs" to run longhorn!  ARGH!  I only have a 120 gig hard drive, and 2.6 ghz P4!

[Clark Kent]

Doesn't surprise me, although it really pisses me off that they're ripping off of the Mac OS yet AGAIN.  I still run OS 9 on my laptop, and Panther on my iMac.  I can't complain enough about what a rip windows has always been.  What gets me, though, is that OS X 10.3 runs perfectly well on a 400 mHz iMac and even slower, and Longhorn requires 4 gigahertz and a hole bunch of other crap just to get by?  blah.
I'd hope they get successfully sued this time.  I can't believe that PC's are crippled by that piece of crap operating system...

CK

P.S.  I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

[Javora]

Quote:

Quote:
Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

Pretty hefty.  But will it run SFC?  

I guess with those type or needs we won't be seeing Longhorn on a laptop anytime soon??!?    
 

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
I guess with those type or needs we won't be seeing Longhorn on a laptop anytime soon??!?    
   

AMD has announced that they will be releasing a dual core Opteron next year, so maybe.   They designed the Athlon 64/Opteron with the ability to be made multi-core, Intel has announced that they are retro-fitting that ability onto the Pentium 4 (along with AMD64 compatibility).    

[TalonClaw]

 

Quote:
they just lack games  

And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.

[Praxis]

Quote:
 

Quote:
they just lack games  

And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

Did you read a word I said...
Okay, let's do a quick comparison...

Intel® Pentium® M Processor 1.2GHz Low Voltage, 12.1 inch XGA
Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
384MB Shared DDR SDRAM
30GB Hard Drive

Featured at
$1,818

Now lets compare with the iBook G4.

 $1,099.00       
   1GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache @ 1GHz
12-inch TFT Display
1024x768 resolution
256MB DDR266 SDRAM
30GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory
AirPort Extreme ready

Both have processors that should last around 4 or 5 hours.


Processors:
1 GHz G4 vs 1.2 GHz Pentium-M

This is the low voltage pentium M.  Both computers should last around 4-6 hours.  The G4 will probably win performance wise by a little bit, since it is a RISC processor and uses a more efficient Reduced Instruction Set Computing processor command set, and does more calculations per GHz.

Before anyone starts babbling that GHz = Speed (which it doesn't- AMD themselves say so on their web site- Intel just wants you to think it does), you should know that the Athlon 64 FX-51 is only 2.2 GHz, yet outperforms the 3.2 GHz Pentium 4...

Speed is clockrate (Hz) x calculations per clock cycle to put it simply...then you have to add in the bus speed (Macs win) and cache size (The G5 has lots of cache, though the Centrino has more than the average mobile processor as well).

So the G4 will probably get a bit better performance, the Pentium-M a bit better battery life.


Screens:

Same size.


RAM:

The Dell has an extra 128 MB RAM, which costs about $30 to buy from crucial.  Big deal, considering that laptop costs $700 more.

Not only that, but its SHARED memory, so if you try to run anything even remotely 3dish, it STEALS some of your RAM (reducing overall system performance) and sends it to the craptastic "integrated" graphics chip, to render something.


Hard drive:

Same size.



Computer size:

The iBook is slightly more than 1" thin, the Dell is slightly less (note that Apple's PowerBooks are faster, more powerful, and have DVD-RW's, and are also under 1").  However, the terribly designed Dell had to skip a few things to get to be that size, including the CD drive- it's External, meaning you have to lug it around or leave it at home.


CD Drive:

Both include a DVD/CD-RW drive, both come with burning software.

HOWEVER, the Dell's is externel.


Graphics card:

Here is where the Dell dies a horrible death.

The Dell doesn't have a graphics card, or has one of those horrible "integrated shared memory" chips that steals your PC's RAM (at a slow speed since it reroutes it from the system RAM to graphics RAM), slows your system down, and has terrible performance, and isn't designed to run anything better than SFC2 graphics-wise.

The Mac has a Radeon 9200 32 MB graphics card.  It's fast, its powerful, its a good, well priced gaming rig.  It is incredibly hard to find a PC with a Radeon 9200 for under $1500, let me tell you!


Wireless:
Neither have built in wireless- if you want wireless on the Dell, you have to stick in a card in the slot, which leaves you with a bulky computer with an antennae sticking out the side.

The Mac has a built in antennae on the side of the monitor (inside the casing, you can't see it).  You just slap in an INTERNAL WIRELESS CARD (you'll never know it was there) and bam, you're online, with better reception than the dell, as well, since it has a huge antennae.



Software:

The Mac really does well here, too.

Dell has: Windows XP Home Edition (ick), the included Windows Movie Maker (ickier...you can only save in Windows Media Video format, which ONLY people with Windows XP, ME, and 2000 can view, and only in Windows Media player.  Sorry Windows 98 users (not SE though), sorry Linux users, sorry people not using Windows Media player, and sorry Mac users.  And you can't burn to a DVD or CD either, since nothing reads it but Windows).

You also get a trial of Norton Antivirus that quits working after 90 days.

You get WordPerfect.

You get Sonic RecordNow!, an EXTREMELY simplified and not really that useful except for copying CD's  CD burning program.

You get Dell Jukebox, a really bad music player that has access to Dell's not that great music store that doesn't have as much as the competition (Napster and Apple).

And you get Dell Picture Studio, a photo editting studio.

Now lets see what the Mac has.

Mac OS X Panther 10.3 (whoops the pants off Windows XP), iMovie 4 (almost professional grade movie editting program, yet simple to use, can save stuff to both a quicktime file that will play on the web, or a DVD, or several other formats), iPhoto (one of the best Photo-organization/editting programs around), iTunes 4.5 (one of the best music playing programs around...it plays AAC, MP3, AIFF, and lots of other formats...the Windows version can convert .WMA as well)...

You get AppleWorks (word processor equivilant to WordPerfect that can open .docs... and a spreadsheet app like Excel, and a presentation program like PowerPoint...and they can save in PDF!) instead of WordPerfect...much better.

You get iDVD, so you can create a DVD and take it to the computer of someone who has a DVD-RW and burn, baby, burn!

You can burn CD's easily with built in tools, AND IN ADDITION you can use any of the iLife programs (iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and iTunes) to burn music CD's, video CD's, or Photo CD's...

You get a trial of Microsoft Office X, and Quicken World Book 2004, instead of Norton Antivirus.  And did I mention that there AREN'T viruses for Mac OS X?  

And you get Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4 and Deimos Rising, two cool games, for free.






Price:

Dell = $1800, temporarily on discount to $1500 but it won't last long

Apple iBook = $1099, or $999 if you're a student.


Apple has the better graphics card, software bundle, better performance processor, built in DVD/CD-RW drive, and a much better operating system.

Which is more expensive, I ask you?

And did you look over all the games at    Aspyr  for Mac?  With all the games converters these days, being a Mac user doesn't mean you don't get the latest games, you just get them a couple months late.

[Death_Merchant]

Quote:
BTW is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that most of Longhorn's features are ripped straight off Mac OS X?
 

No, it's not just you Praxis.
It's also PCMag. Their one-page blurb regarding the WinHEC 2004 unveiling of Longhorn is here.

You know what they say about imitation......  

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
 And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

I won't argue what {rxis already has, but will add: some of us do more than just play games on our machines...

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[Clark Kent]

Quote:

You know what they say about imitation......  

It's copyright infringment?

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[Praxis]

LOL, good one.

[ActiveX]

Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?

[Clark Kent]

Quote:
LOL, good one.  

 

I've heard of people building macs, and have run accross generic parts every now and again, I just don't think it happens all that much,

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?  

In this case it was fair as he was talking about laptops.  Do you know anyone who has built a personal laptop?  I don't and 3 of the 4 computers surrounding me were built by me and the 4th has been modified substantially.  

[Rondo_GE]

and here's Linux!  

[Praxis]

Oh, Linux is definitely awesome, but if you're not a UNIX nerd it has a steep learning curve.

I *still* haven't gotten WINE working.  I finally got all the stuff for WineX...and guess what, I need to compile it, no problem...(btw getting the stuff from CVS was a nightmare)

Oh, wait, I download GCC and it's in source code.  How do I compile GCC without GCC?

lol, let me say this.

I've tried all 3 operating systems, and heres my opinion on it:

Windows simplifies a lot of the difficult things, like networking and programming, and makes the simple stuff (like playing games) WAY more difficult than they should be.

Linux simplifies the simple things (web browsing, few viruses to worry about, Office work, very simple), but overcomplicates the difficult things (networking and programming, for example).  It even is hard to install stuff.  To be fair, if you CAN figure out how to do these things in Linux, it is WAY more flexible than Windows.

Mac OS X makes everything simple- both the difficult things and simple things.  It's a great OS, and if you're a UNIX geek and feel the need to get dirty in the OS, you can still pull up terminal and start compiling stuff like nuts  It's got both sides of the coins- userfriendliness AND ability.

[ActiveX]

Quote:

Quote:
Using Intel as a basis fo price comparison to an Apple isn't quite being honest about it...

Can you build an Apple or do you have to buy it?  

In this case it was fair as he was talking about laptops.  Do you know anyone who has built a personal laptop?  I don't and 3 of the 4 computers surrounding me were built by me and the 4th has been modified substantially.  

Well ppl dont seriously game on their laptops...usually...

And I havent looked too hard to see if I could, Im talking about desktops...

[Praxis]

Generally, its best to just buy it from Apple.

If you really want to, its possible to buy the parts from IBM to build a Mac...but you won't have the warranty, it won't look as cool, it won't necessarily have the same OS hardware support (which is one reason why XP is so buggy...Mac OS X has a set of hardware profiles for each mac you could run it on...giving it extreme stability for those systems.  If you use it with a nonsupported system, it has to tailor a hardware profile, so it won't always be as good hardware-wise).

[TalonClaw]

Quote:

Quote:
 And those words sum up the whole problem with apples.  It also doesn't help that apples are over priced.  

I won't argue what {rxis already has, but will add: some of us do more than just play games on our machines...

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...  

Praxis, I'll take your word for it that they are cheaper now but in the past they were always over priced compared to a PC.  There is just not enough of a market out there to produce games on them or the industry would.  Sure I use my PC for more than games and it works great.  But I like to play games too.

 

[Praxis]

You really should check out Aspyr's Mac Games section.

Just one game converter's selection:

007? Nightfire? - Mac
4X4 Evolution 2 - Mac
Star Wars® Jedi Knight® II: Jedi Outcast? - Mac
Star Wars® Jedi Knight®: Jedi Academy? - Mac
Star Wars®: Galactic Battlegrounds? - Mac
Star Wars®: Knights of the Old Republic® - Mac
American McGee's Alice? - Mac
Battlefield 1942? Deluxe Edition - Mac
BloodRayne? - Mac
Call of Duty? - Mac
Clive Barker's Undying? - Mac
Command & Conquer? Generals - Mac
Cro-Mag Rally - Mac
Delta Force®:Black Hawk Down® - Mac
Escape from Monkey Island? - Mac
Extreme Fun Compilation - Mac
Harry Potter? and the Chamber of Secrets? - Mac
Harry Potter? and the Sorcerer's Stone? - Mac
Homeworld®2 - Mac
IPuppet Presents: Colin's Classic Cards - Mac
Indiana Jones® and the Emperor's Tomb? - Mac
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer® - Mac
Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer® - PC
Lara Croft Tomb Raider?: The Angel of Darkness? - Mac
Law & Order?: Dead On The Money - Mac
Leave the Lights On Compilation - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault? Breakthrough - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault? Deluxe Edition - Mac
Medal of Honor Allied Assault?Spearhead Expansion Pack - Mac
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault? - Mac
NASCAR® Racing 2002 Season - Mac
NASCAR® Racing 2003 Season - Mac
Otto Matic? - Mac
Return to Castle Wolfenstein? - Mac
Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire? - Mac
SimCity? 4 - Mac
SimCity? 4 Rush Hour - Mac
Space Colony? - Mac
Spider-Man? - Mac
SpyHunter® - Mac
SpyHunter® - PC
Star Trek?: Voyager ® Elite Force? Expansion Pack Combo - Mac
Star Trek?: Voyager® Elite Force? II - Mac
The Lord of the Rings?; The Return of the King? - Mac
The Sims? - Mac
The Sims? Hot Date - Mac
The Sims? House Party - Mac
The Sims? Livin' Large Combo - Mac
The Sims? Makin' Magic - Mac
The Sims? Superstar - Mac
The Sims? Unleashed - Mac
The Sims? Vacation - Mac
Tiger Woods PGA® Tour 2003 - Mac
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon?: Desert Siege? - Mac
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six® 3: Raven Shield® - Mac
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell® - Mac
Tomb Raider® Chronicles - Mac
Tomb Raider®: The Last Revelation - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater? 2 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater?3 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater® 4 - Mac
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater® 4 - PC
Wakeboarding Unleashed? Featuring Shaun Murray - Mac
Wakeboarding Unleashed? Featuring Shaun Murray - PC
X2 Wolverine's? Revenge - Mac
Zoo Tycoon? - Mac
Zoo Tycoon?: Marine Mania? Expansion Pack - Mac


Notice Battlefield 1942 and Jedi Academy?

Halo is also out for Mac, and Halo 2 is coming.  I think Battlefield Vietnam is also coming.  I *hope* Star Wars: Battlefront will be on the Mac as well.

This is just from *one* of the Mac game creators/converters.

There are plenty of games out there.

Besides, it never hurts to keep a spare Windows PC with a graphics card around for the Windows-only games like SFC3...


Anyway I don't intend to upgrade to Longhorn for a loong time.  Maybe someday I'll get Longhorn, but only went I can get a 5 GHz PC for around $500 (since Longhorn's minimum recommended will be 4 GHz) with a good graphics card, and only if future games require a computer that powerful and require Longhorn.  If I can get by without having to waste my money on Longhorn (note that each version of Windows is more expensive than the last:  3.1 was $50, 98 was $100, 2000 Pro was $200, and XP Pro is $300...what'll Longhorn be?

I'll stick to my Mac for now, where my processor isn't bogged down by such a bloated operating system.  This 2.6 GHz P4 will probably be my last PC desktop for a while (at least for me, there is one member in my family who likes Windows, everyone else likes Mac).  My next desktop will be my first Mac desktop (i've only owned laptops so far).

[Clark Kent]

Hey praxis, I'm sure I asked this before, but what systems do you run?  Currently I've got my old Compaq presario- 1.2 GHz, Graphite iMac DV SE 400mHz G3, Powerbook 1400c/166 uprgraded to 233 mHz G3, and as a hobby to upgrade and play with, a powermac 7500 with a DP 200 mHz 604e in it (I never really use it, i just have it solely to take apart and tinker with).  Since I start school soon, I hope to buy a new iBook G4, 1.2 GHz with a student discount in the next couple weeks.
So like I said, what you got?  and what you getting?

CK

P.S. I like Latinas...
....And apparently Asian Ladies as well...

 

[Praxis]

Well, I've got a couple older PC's lying around that other people in the family use, but discounting those...

I've got me old 900 mhz Celeron with a Geforce 2 MX 400...

My newer Sony VAIO 2.6 GHz Pentium 4 with a 128 MB Geforce FX 5200

My PowerBook Pismo G3 500 mhz

And my newer PowerBook G4 12" 1 GHz w/Geforce FX 5200.  They just bumped the speed to 1.25, too

The PowerBook is a sweet machine

All PC's running Winblows XP.  I just hacked my Start button this morning to show a pic of Bill Gates of Borg instead of the windows logo.