Topic: 183 mark 214

[nx_adam_1701]

Can anyone clearly explain to me how the starship captains give helm orders, how is it made up, and etc...

adam out

[Magnum357]

I beleive the TNG Tech Manual actually does explain this quite well.  Its a good book that B&B should used more often.  
 

[Praxis]

If I'm not mistaken, it's in degrees of two circles.

I think that the 183 would be 183 degrees on a circle that is level with the ship (so basicly what you see on SFC3, a 183 degree turn on a flat plane).  The 214 would be on a circle on a verticle plane.

I might be mistaken though.

[TB613]

Quote:
If I'm not mistaken, it's in degrees of two circles.

I think that the 183 would be 183 degrees on a circle that is level with the ship (so basicly what you see on SFC3, a 183 degree turn on a flat plane).  The 214 would be on a circle on a verticle plane.

I might be mistaken though.  

Praxis,you are corect on it being the course on two compass circles, one was on the galactic plane and the other was vertical from the glactic plane running through the 0 and 180 degree marks on the first circle.  

[Corbomite]

Correct. The term "Mark" is used to denotate the change in axis between the two planes, however the verticle scale runs throught the center of the ship, bow to stern and turns with it along all points on the galactic rim scale. Think of it as a pitch scale.

[nx_adam_1701]

So basically the first numbers are is the galatic plane from 0 to 360, then the mark means next plane, and that is the vertical or basically up and down,  and thats from 0 to 180, so 90 being parallel to the galatic plane


adam out

PS When they start off moving, is the ship on 0 mark 0, then anything the captain says goes, or are these circles or galatic planes always the same, or in the same position and it all depends on where the ship is positioned before giving helm orders, soewir if i confused the hell out of you, im confused myself, i cant put it to words, basically is 183 mark 152 always the same direction, or ..........

Thanks guys

[Praxis]

I would say 0 mark 0 would be the direction the ship is already facing, in which case the captain would just say "Full impulse" and not bother stating a new direction.

[CmdrK]

That would be a relative bearing mark. True bearing and mark would be different I imagine.

This is dredging from my mental archives, but I thought there was a galactic coordinate system with 000 being along the line from the galatic core to UFP capital (Earth?). The mark angle is still buried in the dust and I'm unable to retrieve it now.  

[Corbomite]

Quote:
So basically the first numbers are is the galatic plane from 0 to 360, then the mark means next plane, and that is the vertical or basically up and down,  and thats from 0 to 180, so 90 being parallel to the galatic plane


adam out

PS When they start off moving, is the ship on 0 mark 0, then anything the captain says goes, or are these circles or galatic planes always the same, or in the same position and it all depends on where the ship is positioned before giving helm orders, soewir if i confused the hell out of you, im confused myself, i cant put it to words, basically is 183 mark 152 always the same direction, or ..........

Thanks guys  

OK I could have explained this a bit better, but I was on my way to work and typed quickly.

There are two functions being discussed here. One is finding your place in the galaxy, i.e. this is when they say "Such and such ship/planet is at (for example) 32 mark 114". These are your positional coordinates in the galaxy relative to the horizontal plane of the galactic rim and the vertical plane perpendicular to it, looking from the center of the galaxy. Earth is conveniently located at the rim of the galaxy, so 0 mark 0 is Earth (or 360 mark 360, as they are the same).  So in our example above 32 mark 114 would put you 32 degrees on the horizontal (going counterclockwise from Earth) and 114 degrees on the verticle (going "up" from Earth, past the pure vertical at 90 degrees to 114) putting you slighty to the "left" and well "above" Earth.

The other system is used to plot a directional course to a set of coordinates in the galaxy. It is similar to the above system, but the two are mutually excusive of one another. When they say "Set course 217 mark 78" for example, the horizontal component uses a "compass" parallel to the galactic rim "compass" in the explanation above and set in it's place to match it degree for degree, no matter where you are. If you drew a line through the 0 degree markto the 180 degree mark on both "compasses" they would always be parallel.

The vertical component uses a "compass" that runs from the bow to the stern of the ship and moves with the ship when it turns. 0 degrees is at the bow and 180 degrees is at the stern, so those points are always in "contact" with the horizontal "compass" at any given point along it depending on their heading in relation to the galactic rim. It is basically the same system used by airplanes and submarines to record yaw and pitch in three dimensions. (There is also a third "compass" to record the angle at which the ship is off the horizontal plane, i.e. the "twist factor", but we won't over complicate it anymore than we have to.) Anything from 1 to 179 degrees will make you go "up" and anything from 181 to 359 degrees will make you go "down".

So using our example above, setting a course of 217 mark 78 would swing us to 217 degrees along the galactic rim (counterclockwise) and 78 degrees "upward".

So you might be able to set course at 217 mark 78 to get to coodinates 32 mark 114.
 

[Corbomite]

I forgot one thing. The galaxy is divided into sectors in a three dimensional grid. You need this third component when describing a location. So 32 mark 114 must have a sector applied to it so you know how far inside or outside the galaxy you need to go.

[nx_adam_1701]

I might have to read it like 10 more times, but I think I got the gist of it, thx corbormite,

adam out
 

[Warden]

Quote:
I forgot one thing. The galaxy is divided into sectors in a three dimensional grid. You need this third component when describing a location. So 32 mark 114 must have a sector applied to it so you know how far inside or outside the galaxy you need to go.  

Yes, I remember janeway gave 3 co-ordinates when sending voyagers position in "message in a bottle".

Interesting read Corbomite thnx  

[nx_adam_1701]

hey i dont get no credit, i brought up the topic


adam out

[Corbomite]

Quote:


Yes, I remember janeway gave 3 co-ordinates when sending voyagers position in "message in a bottle".

Interesting read Corbomite thnx  

Well it gets worse. Each Sector is divided into Quadrants that are divided into Spatial Grids that use the traditonal three dimensional X,Y,Z axis system. This system could be used  for the whole galaxy, but then you'd get long strings of coordinates like 34.584376589376593265926 mark 23476.38957693759673 mark 346.96738769347291818674, which would not only be cumbersome, it would make the dialog really dull!   They only use that system for local navigational coordinates. You hardly ever hear them refer to coordinates that way, they seem to be content to bark out headings without a frame of reference for the audience to understand. Voyager was the only time the really gave a good idea about navigation from a known point in the galaxy. Starfleet knew Voyager's general location from the transmission through the alien coms relay, I think Janeway was giving them her exact Spatial Grid coordinates so they knew her precise location.

[nx_adam_1701]

Can anyone clearly explain to me how the starship captains give helm orders, how is it made up, and etc...

adam out

[Magnum357]

I beleive the TNG Tech Manual actually does explain this quite well.  Its a good book that B&B should used more often.  
 

[Praxis]

If I'm not mistaken, it's in degrees of two circles.

I think that the 183 would be 183 degrees on a circle that is level with the ship (so basicly what you see on SFC3, a 183 degree turn on a flat plane).  The 214 would be on a circle on a verticle plane.

I might be mistaken though.

[TB613]

Quote:
If I'm not mistaken, it's in degrees of two circles.

I think that the 183 would be 183 degrees on a circle that is level with the ship (so basicly what you see on SFC3, a 183 degree turn on a flat plane).  The 214 would be on a circle on a verticle plane.

I might be mistaken though.  

Praxis,you are corect on it being the course on two compass circles, one was on the galactic plane and the other was vertical from the glactic plane running through the 0 and 180 degree marks on the first circle.  

[Corbomite]

Correct. The term "Mark" is used to denotate the change in axis between the two planes, however the verticle scale runs throught the center of the ship, bow to stern and turns with it along all points on the galactic rim scale. Think of it as a pitch scale.

[nx_adam_1701]

So basically the first numbers are is the galatic plane from 0 to 360, then the mark means next plane, and that is the vertical or basically up and down,  and thats from 0 to 180, so 90 being parallel to the galatic plane


adam out

PS When they start off moving, is the ship on 0 mark 0, then anything the captain says goes, or are these circles or galatic planes always the same, or in the same position and it all depends on where the ship is positioned before giving helm orders, soewir if i confused the hell out of you, im confused myself, i cant put it to words, basically is 183 mark 152 always the same direction, or ..........

Thanks guys