Topic: missles

[ActiveX]

This would be interesting with true cloaks...hmm  

[Tulmahk]

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In TOS "Balance of Terror" and "Nemesis" we have seen ships firing blind, laying down a pattern when attacking cloaked ships...

In BoT, a very old cloaking device was being used.  This is TNG era tech.  Cloaks are far, far better now.  And just how effective was this 'blind firing' in Nemesis?  It wasn't effictive at all.  It was a desperate move that didn't pay off.

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In ST2:TWOK we saw a single torpedo hit from a K'Tinga take out the Energizer on the Enterprise and kill a legendary officer (Sulu)..

You really need to do your homework before making wild claims like these.  You are wrong here on 2 counts:

1.  TWOK didn't feature a K'tinga class ship.  Neither did STIII.
2.  Sulu wasn't killed in TWOK, nor was he killed by the photon torpedo in STIII, launched from a Klingon Bird of Prey.  The effects the torpedo had were because the BoP got a lucky hit on the Enterprise's automation system; they were running the ship without a crew, you should recall.

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Kzintis WERE in Animated TOS, and they DID have drones. Hence, if we are using TREK "CANON" EVERYTHING ever shown on screen IS acceptable, is it not?

Then again, in Trek "CANON" ships can fight at warp speed, see TOS episode "The Balance of Terror" when the Enterprise was at "Full reverse, Emergency warp speed" while fleeing a plasma (that DID hit) and Sulu said "If we only had one phaser, we could detonate it".

Actually, if you studied Trek canon at all, you'd know the animated series isn't canon.

As for fighting at warp, in SFC3 you can fight at warp (escpecially with your heavies).

I'd suggest you put away that copy of SFB, and watch some Trek for a change.  You'll see SFB really has nothing whatsoever to do with Star Trek, except in some hull designs and names.  

[kitten]

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Those that don't like missles should push for an "all eras" game that has SFB based play in TOS era and more Trek like play in TNG era. The game could explore the evolution of the races, ships, and technology of Trek from Pre-TOS thru TOS all the way to TNG and Nemesis. All you anti-missle types out there could watch the demise of the missle as time passed from TOS thru to the TNG. Wouldn't that be just a pleasure.

Yes....SFC4 Galaxies at War could provide various flavors of gameplay to please everyone....just pick a year between 2150 and 2380 that suites your tastes. The year you select would define the races, map, ships, tech, and weapons available at that point in time. In the spirit of the "total war" series you could play out the great wars from Trek history from a strategic down to a tactical point of view. Just think of it.....

puuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

why not start a thread hammering out how to transition between EAW and TNG? the 'unified generations' approach looks like a promising idea.

 

[Cleaven]

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Actually, if you studied Trek canon at all, you'd know the animated series isn't canon.

As for fighting at warp, in SFC3 you can fight at warp (escpecially with your heavies).

I'd suggest you put away that copy of SFB, and watch some Trek for a change.  You'll see SFB really has nothing whatsoever to do with Star Trek, except in some hull designs and names.  

I must have missed that bit where the animated series was removed from the Trek universe. Gene Roddenberry still had creative control of the series, often with writers from TOS doing the episodes, in some cases as TOS sequels, and using the same characters (and actors). The common thread to the TAS is that there were a lot of stories rejected from TOS because of the production costs, and animation was the ideal way to make those stories possible.  TAS is as canon as TOS and TMP.

Now if somebody could do something with the concept of "SFC is not SFB is not ST".  

[Cleaven]

It seems I did miss the bit where GR said that TAS should not be part of the Trek universe. Evidently there were half a dozen stories that on reflection went a little bit too far with their "science" so the series went out. Use of Niven's Kzinti race probably didn't help things either. Of course that hasn't stopped later ST series from using the same ideas. Probably not a wise decision in hindsight but GR wins, it's his universe.  

[Deviak]

actually Tulmahk..I believe AJ was referring to the first part of the movie when they had the Kobayashi Maru simulation where Saavik was Captain. Of course, that was only a SIMULATION. *chuckle*. Ahh well, some of you should really indulge these guys, they'll say anything to justify SFB. *Sigh*, to tell the truth, I'd want to see SFC4: Galaxies at War as well. However, I don't mind if it's made either. It's Activision's call. I'm not gonna pester them about it. I'll ask about it, but won't pester them.    

[Mr. Hypergol]

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I'd suggest you put away that copy of SFB, and watch some Trek for a change. You'll see SFB really has nothing whatsoever to do with Star Trek, except in some hull designs and names.

I'd suggest you stop being so cocky.  You annoy me.

SFB has a lot to do with Star Trek.  It was invented by the most hard core of Trekies.  The very people who kept Trek alive when it needed it the most.  Stop slamming SFB......it deserves it's place in the Trek universe.  

[Mr. Hypergol]

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*Sigh*, to tell the truth, I'd want to see SFC4: Galaxies at War as well. However, I don't mind if it's made either. It's Activision's call. I'm not gonna pester them about it. I'll ask about it, but won't pester them.

Oh come on......pester them.....it's how lobbying works in Washinton D.C.  If it works in D.C. it's gotta work here.

Yes.....we want Galaxies at War!!!!!!

Pester....pester, pester, pester, pester................  

[Deviak]

*chuckle* sorry Hype ole bud. I'm not gonna push the issue on them. Untill it's warranted and they genuinely want to know what game we want. Meaning when Erik makes the thread to ask what we want. Then I'll make the post in there. Other than that, not gonna push the issue like Whiplash who seems to be using the "Are We There Yet?" technique. Or pester tham and make references everytime it may come up like the rest of you are doing. Lol...sorry man, just know that that game isn't a life or death situation that we have to be like crackheads that need our fix.    

[EmeraldEdge]

Don't want to start anything here, but I see this attitude a lot.  It's totally fine to have, just want to point something out.  Has there every been a post prior to the game getting going, saying "What do you want?".  Did they do it for SFC2, OP, or even SFC3?  I don't recall seeing that post.  I do know that "they" pay attention to what people are calling for, instead of saying "It's time to make a game, guess we'd better go to the people and ask what they want".  ATVI owns the rights to do all the trek stuff, and if people are calling for it enough, then they will find a developer to do the game.  I'd rather have it sooner than later (like 20 years later).  In a lot of places, like game development, I've seen people say things like "I won't give my opinion now, I'll wait until they ask" but "they" don't usually ask, or at least not until far too late to make any major changes, so things go undone.  If you want it make it known.  You can do it without being a major pest, but best to keep it in the air as much as possible so "they" don't assume it's kind of dead topic.  The more things are talked about, the more attention it gets.  If ATVI want's to make a killer game, they are obviously would take a cue from what the fans are saying they are wanting.

As for missiles in TNG, or Trek in general, there has been LOADS of documentation about their use and mention in the series.  They did exist, along with many other things that others claim aren't "Trek".  Oh, well.

On the fire at cloak ship issue, it was fairly effective in BoP, wasn't it?  I have the episode, they looked like they were taking some fairly decent hits there.  As for the scenes in Nemesis, I haven't seen the film but have heard about it.  Wasn't the cloaking device on the Scimitar a new type of cloak that was in fact a "perfect" cloak?  Assuming that tech like that doesn't grow on trees most Romulan ships would have a lesser degree of cloak.  Heck, the cloak in this "Finally an SFC that is just like Trek" (when in fact it really isnt') game is anything but totally invisible.  Why couldn't you be given the option to fire, at a severe disadvantage, at the shadow of the cloaked ship?  If you can see it, why not take a pot shot at it, especially in fleet action or when he's staying cloaked a LOT?  

[loc621]

Give me my missles back i realy realy realy need em, and any one who get in my way get a photon grenade under the pillow at night  

[Robb Stark]

Quote:

You really need to do your homework before making wild claims like these.  You are wrong here on 2 counts:

1.  TWOK didn't feature a K'tinga class ship.  Neither did STIII.
2.  Sulu wasn't killed in TWOK, nor was he killed by the photon torpedo in STIII, launched from a Klingon Bird of Prey.  The effects the torpedo had were because the BoP got a lucky hit on the Enterprise's automation system; they were running the ship without a crew, you should recall.
 

No, he's right... as far as it goes.  The thing he's talking about is the simulated battle, the Kobiyashi-Maru test for Savik.  Enterprise got smashed very quickly, shields notwithstanding, and Sulu pretended to die at his post.

Now, you can make a case that the simulation was not an accurate portrayal of what a real battle would be like, since it was designed to make the cadet lose big-time.  But that's what he was talking about.  

[Dash Jones]

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Quote:

In TOS "Balance of Terror" and "Nemesis" we have seen ships firing blind, laying down a pattern when attacking cloaked ships...

In BoT, a very old cloaking device was being used.  This is TNG era tech.  Cloaks are far, far better now.  And just how effective was this 'blind firing' in Nemesis?  It wasn't effictive at all.  It was a desperate move that didn't pay off.

Quote:

In ST2:TWOK we saw a single torpedo hit from a K'Tinga take out the Energizer on the Enterprise and kill a legendary officer (Sulu)..

You really need to do your homework before making wild claims like these.  You are wrong here on 2 counts:

1.  TWOK didn't feature a K'tinga class ship.  Neither did STIII.
2.  Sulu wasn't killed in TWOK, nor was he killed by the photon torpedo in STIII, launched from a Klingon Bird of Prey.  The effects the torpedo had were because the BoP got a lucky hit on the Enterprise's automation system; they were running the ship without a crew, you should recall.

Quote:

Kzintis WERE in Animated TOS, and they DID have drones. Hence, if we are using TREK "CANON" EVERYTHING ever shown on screen IS acceptable, is it not?

Then again, in Trek "CANON" ships can fight at warp speed, see TOS episode "The Balance of Terror" when the Enterprise was at "Full reverse, Emergency warp speed" while fleeing a plasma (that DID hit) and Sulu said "If we only had one phaser, we could detonate it".

Actually, if you studied Trek canon at all, you'd know the animated series isn't canon.

As for fighting at warp, in SFC3 you can fight at warp (escpecially with your heavies).

I'd suggest you put away that copy of SFB, and watch some Trek for a change.  You'll see SFB really has nothing whatsoever to do with Star Trek, except in some hull designs and names.  

 As has been pointed out several times before, not only is there a ship in the simulated Kobayashi Maru scenario at the beginning (with the very Lovely Kristie Alley as the Lt. who is in command) which looks like a Ktinga class ship (Actually, there are like 3 of them), and when they proceed to attack, Sulu, Spock, and basically the rest of the crew which is actually on the Bridge (no Kirk, Chekov, or Scotty) are all killed (Simulated).  Of course it is a simulation, but that was pointed out in the original post.

Perhaps you would be better to watch the movies again first, before criticizing the point.  

On other topics.  Missiles are CHEESE.  I play Romulan normally.  Do you see us EVER using missiles...

 

I hate missiles.  People are cheesy and try to use missiles against my Rom Ships.  I hate this...why?  Well, many of the ships I choose seem to have weak rear arcs.  In addition, due to charging plasma, Speed is not an ability I typically possess.  Sure, when I've played other races, missiles are actually really easy to outrun.  All you need is a fast ship.  As a ROM, I only have so many shuttles, and they take longer to make than a drone does to recharge.  In addition, I only have so many tractors.  Against a Mirak, I typically am toast.  I can handle Fed and Klingon Drone loadouts (Though I hate them when they are packing them, and so many seem to think it great fun to carry a Battle Cruiser with a loadout of 4 or more drone loadouts), but the Mirak just have so many my defenses can't handle it!  Drones get to be cheese when there are that many flying through the air against a ROM Ship.  The only hope is the get a first strike (hit them first with Plasma and then alternate with your phasers along with a hit and run) in hopes to take out the Drone launchers.  It works well against Feds and Klingons, but the Miraks simply have too many hardpoints.

But there is more to why I think Drones are cheese.  A Rom ship still has to have a player that thinks when playing against the AI.  Plasma is a waiting game.  It's a thinking game.  Drones are a fire and forget mechanism, but it's their recharge rate that I find completely unbalancing.  Heck, I can simply launch drone wave after drone wave to take out an AI enemy, or a newbie, and never really engage, just flee away constantly!  A Romulan really can't do that.  Any weapon that an unthinking person can use and still win is a cheese item.  It takes no concentration at all, no thinking, just the arcade feel of launching them.  This is why I think so many miss them.  It's not that they really miss them as in players using them against players, but since the AI has been so typically weak against drones, they miss the ability to have a weapon that doesn't require them to exercise some brain power.  Of course there are a few that actually do play against others with them online.  They find that drones are a lot harder to exercise against a competent player (as opposed to a new player) by far than the AI, and most conclude there are other far more effective weapons.  In fact the only race that has an effective enough Drone loadout to actually be able to launch enough, at the right times, are the Mirak.  The other races only have drones as a distraction as far as MP is concerned.  The drones are particularly useless.  Against the AI, as noted however, they are all powerful.  If that doesn't show It's a cheese weapon, than I don't know what qualifies (except maybe, just maybe that magic photon).

Of course, I find that Roms are a lot easier in many respects to play in SFC 3.  Pure cloak, instead of someone bumping up their ECCM to wipe you while you charge, now you can charge in relative peace overall (but not complete obviously).  And no one has that cheesy drone thing to chuck at you.  Plasma is easier than ever to hit.  All you do is line it up, make sure you have a low angular velocity, and bingo, you typically can hit pretty hard (of course if you aren't paying attention to Angular velocity, you'll miss constantly).

I can see the flavor of drones, but except for a few skilled players, overall, I find that they are a complete weapon of cheese.  Perhaps if they didn't load as fast, that would be different.      

[Scipio_66]

Quote:
Originally posted by Deviak
*chuckle* sorry Hype ole bud. I'm not gonna push the issue on them. Untill it's warranted and they genuinely want to know what game we want. Meaning when Erik makes the thread to ask what we want.  

Actually, Erik started this thread quite some time ago.

See here in the old Forums  where Erik eventually starts a loooooong poll:
http://208.57.228.3/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020017.html

And here in the new Forums:
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=6770&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Pester away.    Or at least feel free to give input.  I see nothing wrong with reminding Taldren/Activision that I have a (relatively) large stack of disposable income, and there is one product guaranteed to get them at least six  pieces of it.  That product is called (faithfully) SFB-based software.

-S'Cipio  

[loc621]

Help i need missles, i don't understand why they were taken out, i always used drone variants, the mirak  mdc+ mostly, it wupped ass in a big way. ive seen to many p-torps and q-torps miss when they really needed to hitm, i even sawa q torp miss a borg cube, now how ithe hell do you miss a borg cube they're so bloody huge  

[EE]

Missles were a SFB thing and not a startrek thing. How many missles did you see used in TNG or Votager? I cant remeber one.

[loc621]

in that case can pls have tri-cobolt torps as demostrated in early voyager to destroy the care taker aray    

[Cleaven]

It's not a matter of whether Trek canon includes missles or not (even though there is enough evidence to decide in the affirmative). The plain fact is that the suicidal AI has a hard time handling direct fire weapons let alone drones, so - no drones for the AI and therefore no drones for you laddo.

Same goes for fighters by the way.    

[LongTooth]

As some one that plays mirak I can tell you that the MCD is no way our best ship (M-CVA is the best )
All torps miss (try plasma youll see what I meen)some times you need to line up your shot
to hit when the chances best for it not to miss  

[Whiplash]

Its not even that, boys.

Missiles (and all seeking weapons) caused plenty of balance problems for SFC2. They are still having to balance plasma in SFB, and they watch drones very carefully. They just problematical.

Also, they add tactical complexity for newbies to deal with. They're harder to master the use of properly, and hard for newbies to deal with successfully. Since Taldren clearly wanted to simplify the game, they got chopped. IMO.

Personally, I think their loss makes the game tactically uninteresting. Direct-fire only leaves too few tactics to master. Games take on a dreary sameness. IMO. I'd love to see them back in the game.

W.