Topic: Which SFC game is your favorite? (Read 32232 times)

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #160 on:** March 01, 2003, 01:15:10 pm »

As usual, Nanner, you look facts right in the teeth and say the sky is green.

Nemesis TANKED, MASSIVELY, worse Trek film TO DATE.

SFC3 is already being reduced on the shelves and the copies arent moving. Granted, this IS a niche market, and we all agree on that, however, the move to TNG and the Nemesis Tie-in were supposed to generate HUGE new audiences, remember? Eh? Remember?

Demo? Who cares about a demo for a game that is going on FOUR MONTHS OLD and has yet to recieve one offical patch. Would you care to see the OH so important "REVIEWS" that PC Gamer or CGW might put out now? I bet you wouldnt. They reviewed SFC3 PRIOR to release, whereas they reviewed prior SFC's AFTER release, so they factored IN the bugs and even commented that without the bugs, the game(s) would have gotten higher reviews.

So Nanner, since I am "wrong again" PLEASE enlighten me as to how SFC3 and Nemesis can be seen as ANYTHING but a HORRIBLE flop. Erik has already said that SFC:TNG "did ok", not great, but not terrible.

The move to TNG, where there are OH so many NEW fans, who have never HEARD of SFB, PLUS a nice, juicy movie tie-in, AND moving to Activision were all supposed to combine into MASSIVE sales for SFC3, far outstripping ANYTHING the SFC series had seen before. You yourself assured us many times that once SFC3 came out the prior, SFB based SFC titles would soon be forgotten...

Now, nearly 4 months after release, I see a poll (yes, unscientific as are all polls) showing MASSIVE support for prior SFB/SFC and little support for SFC:TNG.

Granted, many who come here are fans of the prior series, and that does skew the poll, but as you well know, all that "new blood" you have been telling us about ARE here on this board, I see new registrants every time I log on.

And yet the poll still shows an SFB/SFC landslide.

Erik himself said that if there WERE to be another SFC, he wanted to do GaW, but of course, due to the lackluster sales of SFC3 there will BE no more SFC anytime soon, if EVER.

AND, anyone who might be interested in buying SFC3 once a demo comes out will simply come to these boards if they are at all interested in reviews, etc and read how we are only getting a partial beta patch after 4 months, and how it (as usual) has apparently caused more problems while not fixing anywhere near all the original ones.

So go ahead there Nanner, instead of simply saying "YOUR WRONG" and spouting Taldren propoganda and telling us how "WHEN X happens, THEN YOU'LL SEE" or "When Y happens, THEN YOU'LL see" or even better "You SFB/SFC types are telling the truth about the game on the boards and its running off new customers". <(I really like that one)

Lay it out, dont just say were wrong, and mention various and sundry factors that have to date held down the sales of SFC3, give us YOUR facts.

MY facts are that SFC3 has had merely break-even sales and that the movie it is based on TANKED, as Star Trek in general has TANKED since TNG went off the air and DS9 took over. (I bought a TV guide last night with the headline "Can Star Trek be saved?" but I have yet to read it yet. Since when is THAT a question that has to be asked?!?! "CAN STAR TREK BE SAVED"?!??! That hasnt been asked in about 3 decades.) Oh, and that the poll that started this thread shows that of the people who frequent this board, the SFB/SFC types outnumber you about 75 to 1.

Do you actually have the quevos to try to make some points nanner, or are ya simply gonna respond with vauge references to SFC3's future greatness, and do so with all the clarity and voodoo like nature of the SFC3 game itself?

BTW, did ya read the post above mine, nanner? NEW people are seeing what you post and easily deciphering that you are 1)PRO TALDREN/PRO SFC3 100% of the time, and 2)ANTI-SFB/ANTI-TOS/ANTI-ANYONE WHO DOESNT AGREE WITH YOU 110% of the time, so its not just US die-hard, grog-nard, SFB old-farts who see it anymore.

Have a super dooper outstanding TNG killed SFC kinda day!

3dot14 · « **Reply #161 on:** March 01, 2003, 01:44:07 pm »

Quote:

I agree with the racial flavoring of SFC1. They had racial screens at every level, obviously the pattern of SFC in this manner is disturbing. At this rate, SFC4 will be an all text game with a single font and no graphics at all.

LMBO!!!!!!!!

While SFC1's immersion factors (such as music (ron jones rocks!), menus, and the campaign stories) is the best among the series. SFC2's refined game play still beats SFC1...

I wish I could vote for OP, I REALLY do! but the OP patch situation worse than SFC3... Like many said, once OP's Dyn2 and gameplay is brought to par as EAW. Then I definitely would've voted OP.

SFC3's err... revolutionary changes... are just too revolutionary. It doesn't appear to be the game I started with (SFC1) anymore... To me: SFC3 is not a Sequel. it's a Spin-Off, which is not un-usual nowadays. but it just doesn't feel right...

But until then, my vote goes to EAW.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #162 on:** March 01, 2003, 01:50:48 pm »

Actually I believe Nanner's point was that had the Demo for SFC3 come out BEFORE the game was release or soon thereafter, and had the patch been released shortly after the games release, sales for the game, and the overall SFC3 community, would be much larger.

That said, I'm not sure that's true.

I saw the headline on TV guide at the store, and actually thought about buying it just to read the article. I didn't though. It might be nice to know what they had to say though. It's sad that Trek has come to this, but it's clear as to why (to some degree). Continuity is out the door, and stories are rehashed time and time again.

I do have to agree, to a certain degree, with Nanner on this though. I'm not sure a Trek movie with the original cast would have done outstanding now either, but I do know that I didn't go see Nemesis (despite it revolving around Romulans), and had the movie been an original cast movie I might have bothered. It's tough, but they really need to do something about the storylines and scripts going around. And stop trying to put forhead ridges and creapy alien effects on aliens that don't need them, or shouldn't have them.

FireSoul · « **Reply #164 on:** March 01, 2003, 02:24:28 pm »

oy..
.. here we go, the old arguments again.

-- Luc

Carrie · « **Reply #165 on:** March 01, 2003, 02:35:22 pm »

I say EAW right now, but not without reservations. EAW only keeps the high spot because of how well its been fixed.

If Dyna interaction, base action, and other things from OP were fixed, and OP patched up to the current quality of EAW... with NuclearWessels and Firesoul adapting the EAW missions over, and making new and more exciting missions as well... I would probably pick OP without reservation.

Get those PATCHES done (the big patch, and the dyna one), and I'll be downloading missions in a minute, and making OP my all time favorite.

FireSoul · « **Reply #167 on:** March 01, 2003, 03:20:24 pm »

http://pet.dhs.org/~firesoul/img/arguing.jpg

Edit: there.. I won't show the picture directly.. but..
Edit2: Contains explicit, and insult. Basic Message is: arguying over internet is retarded. Avoid if offensive.
-- Luc

Toasty0 · « **Reply #168 on:** March 01, 2003, 03:35:41 pm »

Luc,

Would you not make fun of the special needs folks--they have as much right to repeat themselves over and over as the special olympians...

mahahahaha

Best,
Jerry

NannerSlug · « **Reply #169 on:** March 01, 2003, 04:20:40 pm »

last time ajtk.. my only point in responding to you is simply this: there were many factors to why sfc3 has not sold as well as people had hopped - you cannot pin it on any single thing. just as if i were to sit here and say (if sfc3 was successful) that the sole reason for its success was the rule change. that just is not true. most people bought/buy sfc because a) its trek and b) its the best game out there pitting trek ships against each other. it really is that simple.

See.. if rule sets where the ONLY reason for sfc rise/fall, then you fail to talk about is the success/ lack of financial success of Orion Pirates. It was a stand alone expansion pack which actually comes to the closest to emulating sfb.. i do not see many people playing it while it is superior to eaw in every aspect.

regarding marketing, etc.. it could have been bill shatner or patrick stewart and it probably would have flopped - period. this goes much deeper than what you think.

that said, however, if you were to do your marketing research - you will find that the people with demographics lean toward the tng - like it or not. i am by far a tmp person more than tng (do not try to equate tng/tos with sfb/nonsfb rule sets - that is false.. im talking about trek - not rule sets) and i even realize it.

if you stick your head outside of this community and look around at other games and what takes to drive/ build them - it is simple economics that regardless of what rule set, there are issues. (there are more people playing total annihilation now than sfc2 - and TA came out a couple of years before sfc2 - and thats not talking about games like rainbow 6 or even mech warrior 3 or 4).

finally.. its not so much being antisfb as it is saying that things can be improved on.. if that is antisfb - then hey, ill wear that badge proudly simply because sfb is not sacred scripture or text. its an evolving rule set which may work great for pen and paper stuff.. but many, many things change or need to be changed.. or can be improved on with the use of a computer.

if you like 100% pure sfb straight up with no adaptations, then i do recommend www.sfbonline.com (i think thats it). the fact remains, that even with sfc1/2/op, there is more different with it and sfb than similar. why? because the game is of realtime nature.

one last thing about this "poll" regarding scientific and nonscientific.. i would say that this forum represents a skewed segment of the population - just as most any forum does. this is a fact, not opinion. so before anyone takes anything from it- i would caution against it. that would be regardless of the results.

so ajtk - please vent your anger some where else. the "fact" is, there are many, many things that effect the situation.

Komodo · « **Reply #170 on:** March 01, 2003, 05:26:41 pm »

This arguement can go on steady for the next 4 months, and the result will still be the same:

No one wins.

Personally, I voted OP. It had all the stuff. In its form, it should have been superior to EAW. The "expansion" theory didn't make sense to me- personally, I think it should have been created as being able to stand-alone for its own sake, and as an actual expansion add-on to EAW; that would have made for a lot less grief overall. Personally, I think the X-Ship factor was overblown...

I think a lot of people missed the point of SFC3. It is supposed to be something new. Not to necessarily replace previous versions, but give a lot of fans something they wanted that was the same format as them. Not only did they get TNG ships, but a whole new set of variables which works very well for the real time enviornment. Drawbacks are that it is not nearly as engaging as the TOS games, fewer race variety, and lately, the splinter faction going on (meaning GSA mostly). Is it still fun? Sure! Especially when you get an even team game going.

For the time being, I'm mostly concentrating on #3. Does that mean I'm gonna forget about the versions I've played over the past 3 years? No way! But I am glad to have #3- it came out just when I was getting very tired of the same old game, and it really did bring back my interest and excitement again. I may not go back to EAW once OP gets its patch- I really think OP will finally get the attention it has long deserved. Then again, maybe I will. That's later.

I think the real problem with things lately is that the community has fractured upon the lines of each version, and sadly will continue to try to up the ante of each, which only serves to divide us further. What good is that?

Everyone is entitled to play what they want, and it's totally destructive to try to convince each other otherwise. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion- fine- say it once, and get on with getting it on. Endless bickering solves nothing. Save your energy for having fun folks! It's much better spent

Kieran Forester · « **Reply #171 on:** March 01, 2003, 07:35:19 pm »

Nanner, there are several reasons OP did not sell as well. First, the way it was sold was a factor. Instead of a stand alone, it should have been an addition to EAW itself, similar in the way B-Wing was to LucasArts first X-Wing game. There wasn't really enough there to warrant it being sold as a stand alone product at stand alone prices. Second, there was nothing really done to quash old bugs that had already been found in EAW, especially in the D2, with the patrol bug and all that. And thirdly, as a result of #2, the community itself did not wholeheartedly embrace OP and leave EAW behind. Nearly all major D2 campaigns are EAW campaigns, due to the fact that OP had the same old bugs and has not had the fixes from EAW ported over, which made EAW D2 a much more stable environment. The simple reason that EAW is more played is that it has always has been the more stable piece of software, and will continue to be so until the upcoming OP patch. And since both games are over a year old, there is little reason to switch from one to the other at this point.

Oh, and a note. Yes, I bought SFC1 because it's Trek. But then, when I saw what an immersive universe SFB had, and how much cooler its mechanics were compared to that of other Trek games, even today, I realized SFB is what makes the SFC series so cool. Without it, as evidenced by the lukewarm sales of SFC3, SFC is just another run of the mill Trek game. Yes, I bought SFC1 because it's Trek; I bought SFC2 and OP because it was SFB.

Once again, Nanner, you see only the facts you want to see. But hey, why should we be surprised?

Cleaven · « **Reply #172 on:** March 01, 2003, 09:24:48 pm »

Just a point about the OP bugs, they are not "stability" bugs. Enough people have attested to the fewer crashes experienced in OP play. But that doesn't count for half a Chiko Roll when compared to the gameplay bugs (ie screwed up cartel interactions) found in the OP-D2.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #173 on:** March 01, 2003, 10:37:53 pm »

komodo is right on all points.

Kieran, op was what the community made it. there were by far more bugs with eaw than when op came out. this was a conscience decision by many in the eaw community to snub op. there might be a bug or two left in op, but nothing that could be over come if people wanted to embrace it and use it - but they decided not to. the decision to dump op was purely political. of course what i find funny to some degree is that op is more sfb like than eaw ranging from maulers to k-fx arcs. <shrug>

as far as the "immersive universe SFB ". i can almost garuantee with out a doubt there has been more written about trek than sfb. go to any book store for the past how many years and you can find on the self dozens of star trek books. just as with OP, however, it is what people decide to put into it.

does "sfb" have a good back ground with an intriguing story and missions- you bet! but that does not make it the lone game (let alone trek) with such a back ground.. nor does it mean a game cannot be successful without such a back ground. it is simply one of the things which make that particular game unique. it does not mean that its rule set is any better (or worse) than any other rule set. in fact, i would argue that if you looked at the bigger picture that many people might argue differently as there have been other successful trek games (although not many).

for what its worth, i do look at the facts - i simply do not put blinders on and keep an open mind to what makes a good game. however, that conflicts some people's perceptions, such as your self - more than likely because of differing back grounds, demographics and what we look for in a good game. end of story.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #175 on:** March 02, 2003, 12:41:57 am »

Two points.

1. SFC as a series is now dead. Erik Bethke has as much as said so. Taldren wants to do something non-Trek in the future. Hence B-9.

2. As per Nanner's point about Trek games needing to grow, I give you Bridge Commander, DS9:Dominion War, etc. < Insert the sound of a plane crashing and burning or alternatively the whistle of a bomb dropping and exploding>. The "Public" doesn't give a rat's behind about Trek and Trek games. This will always be the province of the odd and obsessive as is most Sci-Fi. The most popular online games seem to be those that frankly plug into the worst in people. I will take my SFB oddness any day over the least common denominator of Half-Life and Unreal, blah, blah, blah. The further they attempt to expand the market for Trek , the more likely it is to bite the big one.

kosh2000 · « **Reply #176 on:** March 02, 2003, 01:56:29 am »

op the bastard step child of sfc is number one in my book then sfc1 as far as sfc3 well the cloak is nice

kosh2000 · « **Reply #178 on:** March 02, 2003, 06:07:20 am »

How this if it was fixed how big would the fan base be now and would a large segment of people moved from eaw to op and would most of the people with a working op d2 moved to sfc3 or even support it on these forums at all .This is just my opinion

CubCarson · « **Reply #179 on:** March 02, 2003, 10:22:26 am »

Nannerslug, I apologize for my comment about you making one post and then leaving. You have proven me wrong.
Now on to my comments...
I think the reason EAW is so popular (as compared to OP) is that it has been patched as far as Taldren is willing to go with a 2 year old game. Various people saw the potential in the game and continued the process- Magnum Man, Nuclear Wessels, Arctic Fire, the whole sfc2.net team... Dark Elf, Karnak.... and there are more that I cannot remember and wish I could. It isn't just patching the game or making new missions that keep it interesting (but it is a big part!) but bringing out innovative campaigns that get the blood flowing, get a team spirit alive!
Dizzy is bringing out a Slave Girls server for OP, a testament to a great game even though it isn't patched to the level of eaw yet.
KOTH Fluf is starting the litterbox 2 campaign soon, with some innovative rules, victory conditions and ship modifications. (sfc3 campaign, if you haven't heard of it)
The community isn't dead yet, let's not write a post-mortem for Star Trek ship combat simulators before the last server is down!
Nannerslug, I still do not understand you.

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Topic: Which SFC game is your favorite? (Read 32232 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

**DONOTDELETE**

3dot14

EmeraldEdge

SOS_Skorzeny

FireSoul

Carrie

SOS_Skorzeny

FireSoul

Toasty0

NannerSlug

Komodo

Kieran Forester

Cleaven

NannerSlug

Cleaven

Lepton1

kosh2000

EmeraldEdge

kosh2000

CubCarson

Topic: Which SFC game is your favorite? (Read 32232 times)

DONOTDELETE