Topic: Which SFC game is your favorite? (Read 32257 times)

FireSoul · « **Reply #120 on:** March 07, 2003, 08:36:46 am »

Quote:

The only think I like about the warping around in SFC3 is the ability to save time closing in on AI targets and the ability to get the hell of the map in a snap. I'd gladly live without that to see "tactical warp" either go away or be severely limited.

As for "to what extent." Good question...and one that will likely never be answered difinitively, though we have been trying for quite some time around here.

.. well.. there *IS* a "get the hell out of there" warping-out method in SFB: disengagement through acceleration.
.. but I'm afraid there's nothing for closing in on the enemies.

-- Luc

KBF-Dogmatix · « **Reply #121 on:** March 08, 2003, 08:53:52 am »

Very true, FireSoul. I say I like it only because it's convenient...not because I think it's terribly good for any other reason, including realistic or reasonable....heheh.

Like I said, I'd prefer it's use be severely limited...(far longer warm-up and exiting sequences or a finite number), or just taken out altogether. All the warp prancing gets on my nerves...heheh.

FireSoul · « **Reply #122 on:** March 08, 2003, 09:20:34 am »

The main issue I have against warping is..
..well..

.. because of it, you can't have seeking weapons.

-- Luc

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #123 on:** March 08, 2003, 11:10:50 am »

Kevlar:
You are using a circular, i.e. "which came first, the chicken or the egg" argument. Without Diablo, D+D would be dead? Thats debateable, as there always have been D+D/AD+D titles on the pc, albeit nowhere near as easy for multi as D1+2 both are (of which I have both and play frequently D2 still.) so saying that D has kept D+D alive is questionable. I have Dungeon Siege, Baldrus Gate2 and Pool of R all in my cd holder, and all are FAR more indepth that D, but very difficult to play in multi so I stick with D for that. I agree, D is HIGHLY "dumbed down" compared to D+D, even more so that SFC3 is than OP, but not more so than SFC is than SFB in general.

However, it is HIGHLY unlikely that without D+D there would have ever been a Diablo, wouldnt you agree?

You make good points that SFC1 was evolutinary, and I myself would have liked to have seen a new engine sometime in the series. However, with such a short release span, having the same engine isnt really that bad, IMHO. I personally would rather have a new and improved game with the same engine every year than one game every 2-3 years with a new engine. Unless, of course we got the new game every 2-3 years with one or more expansions (NOT stand alone) in the intervening time to hold me over.

Anyway, thanks for replying and making points, I agree that it is nice to debate points and not feelings or vauge predictions.

Have a nice day!

kevlar · « **Reply #124 on:** March 08, 2003, 12:05:48 pm »

you missed one thing that is important on my D&D/diablo argument: Time frame. I said that without the sucess that was diablo we would not have had more serious CRPG's on the timeframe we had them.

"However, it is HIGHLY unlikely that without D+D there would have ever been a Diablo, wouldnt you agree?"

Actually more or less. And I explain. Years ago I had the chance, on a fan chat, to ask Eric schaeffer if he was influenced by the D&D when designing diablo. He answered something like " The influence come more from tolkiens books." and later the said that with diablo blizzard wanted to step aside from the Dungeons and Dragons universe.

Course that when he look to things like "hitpoints" and such there a couple of legacy concepts in diablo taken from table games ( read D & D) . Even so diablo, especially Diablo 1, didn't followed a "solid ruleset"- still remember my fighter dishing out fireballs and chain lightnings almost as well as a wizzard.

You are right. The release span didn't left much time for critical engine improvements. Still, I feel that the sales problems with Op and SFC 3 are more related with less ground breaking features than anything else. we all know that games with great graphics tend to sell more, even if people only play them for two or three days.
If SFC3 had, for example, breath taking graphics it would have sold much better, despite whatever gameplay problems the game locks in itself. And probably Activision would had negociated either a expansion or a follow up tittle

Qob'nuH · « **Reply #128 on:** March 08, 2003, 01:40:05 pm »

"inspired bythe board game Star Fleet Battles"...."uses a great deal of the SFB material,but has also made some changes and enhancements" - Orion Pirates manual Introduction. (for those who may have lost their manual) Inspired by but NOT SFB. The enhancements I think are necessary to help capture the flavor of Trek,something a board game could never do. So for me , bring on the enhancements to make a great game even better.For a strictly SFB-based game, break out the card table.

I'm not looking to start a big argument ,just present a different point of view. It seems Trekkers and SFBers both really enjoy this game and i hope it will stay that way (How about a configuration menu to turn on/off features like warp,etc.)
Or at least that big SFB________ST slider!

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #131 on:** March 08, 2003, 02:53:37 pm »

Kevlar:
I have no doubt that he wished to move away from D+D and base is on Tolkien, etc. Tolkien, Moorcock, Saberhagen, they all predated D+D, and no doubt INSPIRED D+D.

Also, if not FOR D+D, the appeal for Diablo would not have been there, as the genere would not exist.

And yes, hit points, spells, armor, D looks ALOT like D+D, which looks alot like the CURRENT Film version of LOTR, but not so much like what the books describe. (Original books, not movie adaptations.)

I dont NEED a "card table" to play a pure SFB game, I can fire up OP.

Its the closest thing we have ever had to date. Indeed, the ONLY thing we have had... Unfortunately it has been changed, distorted and streamlined prior to being completed. To say nothing of the prior 3 SFC titles actually being FINISHED, LOL!

Have a nice day!

Mentat Jon · « **Reply #132 on:** March 09, 2003, 09:26:42 am »

easy sfc2 more ships more enemies of the Federation to kill

jdmckinney · « **Reply #133 on:** March 10, 2003, 09:24:56 am »

Personally (this is totally subjective), I feel that SFC actually boosted SFB more than the other way around. I don't know if the Interplay/ADB contract stated the SFB material had to be included, but I bet it got ADB more than a few new customers or reintroduced old ones to the game. I have bought all the mainstream (alpha sector) SFB modules of the current ruleset from ADB's site. I don't even PLAY SFB anymore, and didn't have a ton of opportunities to do so in the '80s when I WAS playing. Those SFB products are a wealth of information for SFC mods -- I know that much, at least.

The discussions about D&D don't really sway me much either way; it was (and is?) arguably the most popular RPG ever, and would have eventually had a lot of successful computer games based on its basic ideas. I also don't buy the simplified ruleset comparison, since SFC was already using a certain level of depth. It's one thing to take a simpler game and make it more complex as the medium and players become better suited for it. It is quite another to simplify a solid game, requiring less of its players. Now, I don't feel that SFC3 was solely a simplification (some things like more gradual range/damage tables just make better sense when you're not tied to dice rolls), but it was certainly perceived as "dumbed down" by a percentage of its potential audience.

About the shows and such, I'd have to agree a well-written wartime Trek show would be a much bigger draw for me than Voyager or Enterprise have been. DS9, in my opinion, was absolutely the best Trek for about 2 years during the meat of the Dominion War story arc. Sure, there were diversions and filler stories, but what really made the show worthwhile was the almost Shakespearean politics and character tension that served to fuel the battle scenes that so many sci-fi fans enjoy. A similar treatment could be done with an SFB-based war story, though it would have to be far more limited in scope just to allow for proper character development. A Fed/Gorn/Kzinti vs. Klingon/Lyran/Romulan (sorry ISC and Hydrans) storyline would offer a great deal of potential. Not only would the two factions be going at each other, but there would also be a wealth of internal politics and intra-alliance squabbles to keep things interesting. I suppose this could be done in a post-Enterprise, pre-TOS time period with perhaps some modifications to or replacements for the Lyrans/Kzinti.

Of course, there will be many who point out "Gene" would never have accepted a war-torn universe for his ideal world. I don't think he was as divine as many people make him out to be. Specifically, I think it is hypocrisy to include mass destruction of life (how high were the death tolls of Trek episodes in ships and crew?) at the push of a button without also allowing for, and indeed examining closely, wars and their effects on the lives of the people caught in the middle of them. However, I have probably angered enough people already, so I won't take this discussion further.

Getting back to what I feel has been really valuable in this thread, I really do think OP is the best game of the series, if only that D2 were fixed. I know I've said it many times, but I think it bears repeating.

Toasty0 · « **Reply #135 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:04:03 am »

Favorite SFC

SFC 1

SFC2 EAW

SFC Orion Pirates

SFC 3

Aoav160 · « **Reply #136 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:40:20 am »

SFC2 EAW. I liked the idea of the SFC getting closer to the actual weapons and characteristics of what they should have but when SFC2 was at it's height it was fun, there was a large and quality community.

SirWilliam · « **Reply #137 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:46:34 am »

With more races (GORN!), ships, and the non-"dumbed down" ship controls, to say nothing of mission variety, SFC2:EAW was without a doubt the best of the bunch. If the D2 had been better, I would by now have abandoned SFC3 completely.

Still holding out hope for the current incarnation...

SW

FireSoul · « **Reply #138 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:48:12 am »

All I can say--ayy..
.. is give OP a chaaaaance..

GT-Keravnos · « **Reply #139 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:39:02 am »

OP
OP
OP
OP
and
OP!

Has got everything SFC2 has + so many more!

The main reason why has posted above!

Long Live Firesoul+Son Inc. !!!

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Topic: Which SFC game is your favorite? (Read 32257 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

FireSoul

KBF-Dogmatix

FireSoul

**DONOTDELETE**

kevlar

FireSoul

Qob'nuH

FireSoul

Qob'nuH

FireSoul

3dot14

**DONOTDELETE**

Mentat Jon

jdmckinney

Kroma_BaSyl

Toasty0

Aoav160

SirWilliam

FireSoul

GT-Keravnos

Topic: Which SFC game is your favorite? (Read 32257 times)

DONOTDELETE

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