Topic: Uber cloak

[SirWilliam]

Cyberbeer:

I would never question another player's skill without having played them; indeed I would never publicly berate an honorable player's ability.  I am quite sure that you are an honorable and a skillful player, who like the rest of us, hopes this game can eventually be made balanced technically, with only individuals' methods of play to determine the victor.

I would humbly submit that ten games, or even twenty, is insufficient to formulate a completely new strategy, especially against human opponents using a newly-viable and very effective cloak.  After all the game has been fundamentally altered by the cloak actually functioning as intended.  

Especially for the Romulans, the balancing factor against the cloak is the very slow recharge time of their main weapons, the plasma torpedoes.  It is just  a matter of being able to combine selective firing of weapons in given arcs with maneuvering, speed adjustment, and use of mines dropped in areas the cloaker is probably near.  This takes a lot of time to figure out and we haven't even had the patch for a week yet.  Ten games certainly isn't going to allow enough time to re-learn three months plus of anti-cloak strategy for a suddenly un-tilted playing field.  I have played probably ten hours since the patch was released, and I haven't even definitively figured out the new "sweet spot" for turning radius, much less learned a whole new approach to dealing with cloakers.

IMHO, give it some more time and I think many of us non-Romulan players will learn how to defeat the cloaking device or at least maintain an even fighting pace against them.  

Look at it this way: this may be the long-sought after remedy for the "lack of tactical depth" in missions complained of by so many players.  The game was not balanced before and I think many of us non-Romulans got used to that, even if we didn't exploit the bugs against honorable Rommies who fought with no viable cloak and horribly slow weapons.

I may be wrong, I haven't played enough since the patch to dismiss your opinion out of hand, so don't take it that way.

I do think that we should all reserve judgment for at least another week or so, to give time to formulate new anti-cloak strategies.  (Am I starting to sound like Jacques Chirac?  Sacre bleu, I hope not.)  

SW

 



       

[ViperMaul]

Quote:
Alexander why dont we play one...
You be the Rom or Klink one game...I'll be the 'dumb fed'
The next game I will be the Rom you can be the fed...lets see the outcome.  It will obviously be in your favor considering how great you are at this game.  

Actually you should take the Roms and I'll have Kaplin, Alexander, me or RisDnalor take you on.
If you are right then you should be unbeatable. You won't be believe me.
This is a matter of a new skill you have to learn use to beat Romulans now.

Kaplin effectively used the probe to beat one of my Romulan Officers a couple of days ago.
Also keep in mind that having a Computer Level 5 on a Romulan reduces its ability somewhere else. And there is not many Romulans that run around with Computer Level 5s any way.

So you either need to *learn* to use <blank-tactic> and <blank-tactic> effectively and/or a wingman to cover your back. (You'll figure it out. This Romulan Praetor is not going to tell you how. LOL)
No different than we Romulans have to learn to have a wingman and use the correct weapon configurations against a good Borg pilot.

Romulans are stronger but not unbeatable. I have witness better engagments now but my Romulan Officers are not unbeatable.

Good luck with your training.

   

[Credo Narth]

I play Fed most of the time, but I certainly wouldn't rate the Rommies as having uber cloaks. Detecting cloak 5's isn't all that hard, you just can't keep the lock-on for as long.

I reckon the Romulans are about right as they now are. They always were dreaded as a race in Star Trek, Canon Land, and if SFC3 is supposed to be as close to Canon as SBF gets, then the ROmulans should certainly be pretty fearsome.

The only problem with the Roms is the Hawk. It still looks like a big green London bus with gammy wings sticking out the side...

[762]

I haven't tried the patch yet, but one thing I've learned playing against Roms is that rear-firing heavy weapons are a must. If all your heavies hace forward you've got the impossible task of turning 180 degrees to try to hit him. If you've got rear heavies he will seek to engage you from the side, and you can turn away and hit him before he cloaks / warps out.

[Koloth]

It is too early to make an statement like 'uber cloak'. How many games have been played? 1, 10, 100, 1000? To say something is uber means that in every situation it has an advantage. Until I have seen evidence that shows cloaking ships have all advantages and no disadvantages, then I am going to disagree with your assessment and fart in your general direction  

[TheBigCheese]

Dont seem to be hearing any complaints from Borg players?  

[RAGE Cyberbeer]

Well thanks for the fart...and other suggestions.  What server does Alexander play on, as I play on GSA mostly...

I also noticed while playing as a Romulan I fired one heavy plasma and it fired out 3 torps....do Romulans now have volly?  If this is true why did they take it away from Feds?

[CynicForever]

I have played all 4 races extensively online. In each race, I have gotten up to their most powerful dreadnought (got bored with the borg before I got a cube). I think alot of the complaints are coming from Fed players, and there is a reason. Its not that the cloak is now unbeatable, that just adds to the problem really. The fact is, the feds are slightly underbalanced.

Feds have the strongest shields, right? Ya, they can usually take 1 or 2 extra shots.
Feds armor is second strongest. Again, fed armor can take 1 to 2 extra shots.
In exchange, we give up maneuverablility, speed, stealth, and power.
Some people say that feds have better power output. That's true when a fed ship is underloaded. Shields and heavy weapons suck up that power. Consider, a photon takes 8 power, deals out about 9 damage. K-Photon takes 6 power, deals out 6 damage, and takes half the time to reload. But Feds  have the "mighty" quantum. 13 damage, 10 power. Polaron does 12 damage, 9 power, and recharges slightly faster than the quantum. Ahh, but the quantum has burst fire, that now happens alot less. While the polaron's shield bypass seems unaffected. Oh, but we have the pulse phaser. Wich was almost useless before the patch. Now it's completely useless. Phasers are generally the same as Klingon disrupters.

So, whats the advantages of playing Fed? The ability to absorb 4 to 5 extra shots, if your lucky.  180 degree primary weapon mount, wich does generally give us an edge in the light cruiser to heavy cruiser department, but wich is lost in the battlecruiser and dreadnought, and doesn't exist in the frigate and destroyer. Disadvantages? Lack of weapon variety, power consumption vs. power generation, power to damage ratios, speed, agility, stealth.

Now, the Romulans have been brought up to par. Before, it was the Klingons who had the edge because of superior power to damage ratios, and reload rates. Hasn't been long enough to see if the Romulans will be contenders, but I know this, the Feds weren't to begin with.

Of course, many of you will say I'm just a whiney Fed. Maybe I am. But I've played all 4 races many times. I've learned how to fight as each competently, if not mastering them. Before the patch, I would say the best ships were Klingon, Borg(not counting the cube), Fed, and Romulan. With the patch, I'll have to play as all 4 races again to find out how things stand, but I don't see the Fed climbing the ladder.

[Wiz33]

Quote:
Well, there's a differance here.  

Federation supremecy in SFC2, came only in numbers.  The races that had the "Uber" advantage where the Mirak, and Hydran (50 drone type 4F volleys....Ouch.)  And dont forget the 12 hellbore fighter fleets.  That just sucked.

Now, looking to SFC3... (In a very generalized way)
Feds have more ships, and a smother transition between ship clases,
Feds have better heavy weapons all around,
Feds have better power output/generation ratio's,
Feds have better primary weapons all around,
Oh-ya...
And feds still have the advantage in numbers.  

  What you don't realise is that while there are usually more Fed player on a D3 server. Most of them is fairly green (at least at this point of time). They would play Fed, learn the system and basic and they move on to play other races.

  Here's an example base on one of the more popular D3 server (nividon). I would pop on only to find that out of say 15 Fed player on, there are only a few experienced Fed and the rest of them are all newbies with under 3K in rating in Akira. On the otherside, all 4 Klingon player are in Neghvar with over 6K rating, the 4 Borg players are in Sphere Prime with 10K+ ratings (being able to do Planetary on your own helps) and the 2 lonely Rom player are in Warbirds with over 8K rating. For the record, Fed have not won on that server for ages.  

[RHC-Star Dagger]

Greetings,

Posts like this just warm my heart.  Play 500 or so games with the Betas and you will realize that what you say isnt true

And if it is, oh well, the Rihannsu are supposed to be the Superior race in St anyway.

Seeing you (right in front of me),
RHC-Star Dagger

[ViperMaul]

Quote:
Well thanks for the fart...and other suggestions.  What server does Alexander play on, as I play on GSA mostly...

I also noticed while playing as a Romulan I fired one heavy plasma and it fired out 3 torps....do Romulans now have volly?  If this is true why did they take it away from Feds?

3 torps you say? Sounds like your Romulan friend had Vetern Officer. Because that is the only time I've seen my ship do that.  It seems to me if you want to be the new enemy you must no thy enemy. You should fly the Romulan for a while with different configurations. You will soon discover some of it weaknesses.

 

[TheBigCheese]

Quote:


I also noticed while playing as a Romulan I fired one heavy plasma and it fired out 3 torps....do Romulans now have volly?  If this is true why did they take it away from Feds?

Romulan Plasma's always have had multivolly    

[RAGE Cyberbeer]

Agreed, very nice post.  Finally a brave soul posts the truth...not propaganda :P  

[Alexander1701]

  Okay two things

One: I never said all fed players were bad, just that all the bad players were scared away from Romulus. Thus, we have less players, but when you DO encounter one of us, it won't be a bad player.

Two: Examine. Each race has one of two things. Either they have the cloaking device, or a secondary dreadnought (BB for borg, but they need that for lack of shields). The fact is that you NEED intense cloaking action to beat a sovereign in a warbird. Its a matter of balance, and its why the Federation HAS the sovereign, and why we will never see the Arai Warbird.

On a pre-beta server, the Romulans and Federation players once signed an unofficial cease fire. Romulan AI lost nearly half our space to Federation AI before the Federation ambushed us and ended the treaty. There was a serious problem pre-patch. If it IS an issue, I would recommend that a server head sets the game to run without human players, and see what happens. I'm willing to bet money that the Romulans won't wipe out the federation.

Alexander  

[The_Joker]

This game is made for D3.  Not gamespy.  Has been from the start.  

[Firestorm]

Quote:
Anti cloak is useless....
 

You have got to be Friggin kidding me?!?!?!?!!?!

It is the anti-cloak that is uber!!!!   It if FAR too strong.   Cloak is extremely dangerous against a level-5 computer with legendary officers.   Must be done with extreme care or you will be sliced and diced with your shields down.