Topic: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed

[Dizzy]

Quote:
i dont know why there is such a big discussion about the size of the ship.50m might be canon but thats true for the tos version.maybe the cristaline military ships are bigger. and 50m is damn small in game. so id vote for the 100-150 meters.
however, there is always the modelsize file in your models folder to influence ingame size. i dont see the problem here.

greatings,



ed  

The model size sometimes has trouble rezising a models shield radius. This was the case with Brez's models. I think it was WZ that tried to help me rescale the Thol CA as a test to try and get it on par with the CA hull size. The shielkd radius started giving us fits during testing because the CA was the size of an FF. There wasnt anything we could do about it.  Something was just broke.

So we had to use them anyway, and as it was, they played thru the whole server and the smaller shield radius gave them a tactical bonus none of us wanted them to have. They were just too small. I could have put up with their miniture model size if only the shield radius were equivalent to other races class types, but it couldnt be done, and I relly dont want to go thru with that hassle again.

Right now, I'm working with mission scripters so Webcasters really work, ships really get stuck in webs and the thols will be a unique and playable race.

So I am following what Atra is doing very closely...  I hope to be able to use his models in a future server if he is ok with it, but it will all be in vain if they are the wrong size. And so far, I think atra is spot on with how the model looks. Its really good. And I want to see his work mean something other than pleasing a few canon freaks...

[red_green]

   

Regarding ths scaling topic. Isn't it  moot because the game sizes it based on what slot you put it in?  Unless your talking about moding the siz file.

 

[Dizzy]

Thats not how the model.size works. Dropping a ship into an FF class or type doesnt size the model. Its a combination of model size and the model.size file.

[Atrahasis]

Hmm there are lots of good arguments for making them around 150 m or so because Dizzy is right, if they are too small it not only influences game play but they don't look as good. 50 m is DAMNED small, you have to see it in game to know just how small it is. Remember how thin the PC is too. In fact, a fighter squadron would probably be larger than it in overall dimensions.

Somebody raised a good point about the PC seen in the TOS episode may have been tiny, but there could have been other versions much larger.....hey, if the Klinks can make 3 different sized BOP's I don't see why the Tholians can't.

Maybe I'll release a canon-sized PC but also a 150 m one, and the upper-class ships that follow will be based on the larger 150 m model. Sounds like a plan to me, unless anyone has a better idea? Thanks for the discussions by the way.

Also......who used the term "canon feeak"?  

[Dizzy]

Quote:


Also......who used the term "canon feeak"?    

i think the correct spelling is 'canon freak', but I dont know who said that...  

Oh and btw, one last argument... I like to see models in the game. If you make them too small, then why bother with any of the details? You wont see them.

Like Atra said, the Klinks made 3 or so models of the BOP, so why cant the Thols have a larger sized version of what we saw in TOS episode?

If you want canon for this folks, there simply isnt enough to go on. Take a leap of faith and let Atra make canon history right here right now and   the chance to say you were here when it happened.  

[jayvt3]

I think it is fine as it is.  
If memory serves correctly,  there was a book in the late 80's similar to Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestials, filled entirely with the then current races of the Star Trek universe.  
The Tholians were shown to be slightly wider than humans but at least a foot shorter and shaped like a inverted 8 or 6 sided crystal with a head of multiple facets but similar structure.  It went on to describe briefly that Thol ships are designed for the Tholian mindset of optimum efficency.  There were no crew quarters since the Thols actually inserted themselves into "slots" like a child's hole and peg toy.  Also it went into stating that Thols have no need for certain systems that we as Humans need.  These were stellar cartography and human style navigation systems.  This was due to the Thols shared the inbred stellar navigation ability of the Meadusans.
Here is one statement that the book made that I found to be quite understandable; Thol ships have no need for conventional shields due to the fact that the ship and its crew are quite literally a large crystal able to refract and redirect energy weapons that use light as a carrier.  i.e. Phasers.  This still makes them vunerable to most other weaponry with a keen weakness for missiles (hammer vs. crystal vase scenario) and disruptor fire, due to its effect on the molecules of an object.

P.s. it's shalt.  Shall is used if you are telling a single person to do something directly using them in the first person.  "You shall go and retrieve the Holy Handgrenade."
"Thou shalt be awed" is the correct phrasing since you are telling a "group" of individuals this is what they will be or do.  "Thou shalt be in awe of this creation." or "Thou shalt smite the enemy."
Sorry my dad was a OT kinda guy.

---------------------------------------------------
...And I saw fear in the Klingon's eye.
Ma'Ab, Usurper Tier of Cappella IV        

[SSCF_LeRoy]

Quote:
Thol ships have no need for conventional shields due to the fact that the ship and its crew are quite literally a large crystal able to refract and redirect energy weapons that use light as a carrier. i.e. Phasers.

Hmmm, I thought phasers were supposed to be a particle weapon, not an electromagnetic weapon  

[Dizzy]

Quote:
Thol ships have no need for conventional shields due to the fact that the ship and its crew are quite literally a large crystal able to refract and redirect energy weapons that use light as a carrier. i.e. Phasers.

Tell that to the SFC2 API and engine.  

[sandman69247]

Man, ya can't win for losin'...on some things you get blasted if you don't do it canon (I usually fall in between canon and non-canon with my models), then ya get "canon freaks" when you're just stating your opinion, which was asked for btw. Oh well, ya can't please evrybody.

Anyway, for playability, I agree with you Dizzy, 50m is too small, more a fighter than an FF. At the same time, Atra has always made such great canon models that I figured that was what he was shooting for...my bad.

Whatever you decide, I'm positive it will be great and everyone will be clogging the net downloading.  

[Atrahasis]

Quote:
If memory serves correctly,  there was a book in the late 80's similar to Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestials, filled entirely with the then current races of the Star Trek universe.  
The Tholians were shown to be slightly wider than humans but at least a foot shorter and shaped like a inverted 8 or 6 sided crystal with a head of multiple facets but similar structure.  It went on to describe briefly that Thol ships are designed for the Tholian mindset of optimum efficency.  There were no crew quarters since the Thols actually inserted themselves into "slots" like a child's hole and peg toy.  Also it went into stating that Thols have no need for certain systems that we as Humans need.  These were stellar cartography and human style navigation systems.  This was due to the Thols shared the inbred stellar navigation ability of the Meadusans.
Here is one statement that the book made that I found to be quite understandable; Thol ships have no need for conventional shields due to the fact that the ship and its crew are quite literally a large crystal able to refract and redirect energy weapons that use light as a carrier.  i.e. Phasers.  This still makes them vunerable to most other weaponry with a keen weakness for missiles (hammer vs. crystal vase scenario) and disruptor fire, due to its effect on the molecules of an object.
 

Yeah, I remember sneaking  look at that volume a long time ago in a store, but I was too cheap to buy it LOL.

I wonder how Tholians grow from babies? Would their basic food be a mineral solution? And if they lose a chunk of themselves somehow can they re-grow it? Moreover.....how do they walk around when not in a ship? Do they manipulate electric fields to get an ion-wind kind of lift? That requires a lot of power that has to come from someplace, so are they also extremely powerful portable electrical generators as well?

Anyone into reading about zero-point energy? It's basically the energy that is in space itself, and if one can find ways to access it, it would solve all our energy needs. Theories say that the amount of energy in about a spponful pf space can boil away all the oceans on the Earth. There are allegedly some inventors who have already accessed some of the energy, but not at powerful levels (something like only 1.5 volts from a handful of crushed ordinary garden-variety rocks). I'm proud to say that inventor is a Vancouverite.

Perhaps the Tholians are a race that has access to these special ethereal energies naturally. Since they are crystalline one might be able to assume that they have special relationshoips with the energies of the universe, which crystals can manipulate.  

[Captain Pierce]

IIRC, the DS9 Tech Manual relates quantum torpedoes to zero-point energy, which would give you some interesting Tholian weapons possibilities...  

[ganymad]

please take a look at that

http://www.datadiwan.de/magazin/index_e.htm?/magazin/dz0113e_.htm

[StClair]

Beautiful textures.  Not 100% true to the episode, but we get that with "TOS vs. TMP"/"SFB vs. SFC" on this board already.

If it's strictly a matter of different textures, may I suggest releasing each model with two sets (with one as default, per your preference)?

 

[Rod O'neal]

Is it soup yet?    

[TalonClaw]

Atrahasis, that is jaw dropping work!  Very nice!