Topic: Star Base Warp Cores Cheat

[Vigilante]

    Has the Star Base warp core cheat been addressed or will it be addressed? Since they are'nt race specific it does'nt seem like it would be addressed by this patch's "no tech swapping" fix, or does that "U" equal another race.  

[jdmckinney]

I can only assume from you brief mention that this is a GSA cheat with people loading base warp cores into their custom ship specs. Frankly, I don't see why ANY base cores should be universal -- each race should have its own core attributes and 3 (not 2) different cores, one per base (not including asteroid bases and shipyards).

[Vigilante]

Yes, thats the one. The real problem is that SB cores have a mass of only 100 and are universal. (except the borg one) This leaves people with the space to put better thrusters and impulse, making a ship that will turn on a dime at speed 60+ with all of its weapons at overload power. This is a problem as bad as the borg armor was. I know this is the same kind of oversite as the borg armor was. Its fix is as simple as putting a realistic mass to the cores and raising the engine space in the SB's to match. They are just text numbers, not programing.

Cheating is so rampant on GSA SFC3 I am loosing intrest in this game. The tone of GSA SFC3 is not that of SFC2. I feel there is far less honor there. Close to 50% of the games I have played there have been against someone cheating. The beta will help, but it is just a matter of time before this is as rampant as the borg armor was. Loosing to someone who took 500+ damage to my 300 with armor 5 is the only way to detect borg armor I know of. I dont know how to detect this one.  

[FutureTem]

The full name of the warp cores you speak of are "U-Warp-SB 1" and "U-Warp-SB 2". The first one generates between 300 and 350 of warp power, the second one something around 600 I think. Both only need 100 mass.
Im playing a mod in which these power cores, or at least the first one in the latest mod version, are available. You can select them in the refit menu, and all races have them.
The only "setback" that they have is that a "U-Warp-SB 1" costs around 21000 pp in that mod, almost as much as for a stock Steamrunner!
So, you need to do lots of missions to get one, but you are rewarded with having all systems fully overpowered, at least up to and including fully armed BCH hulls.

I personally like this, cause that way the battles in SFC3 are a lot faster. For example, its fun racing around in a fully armed Sovereign with max speed of 70 and a turn rate that usually only fast Nebulas or Akiras have.

Of course, another reasons for the U-Warp Core is, we also can use the "super" weapons. (Feds have the Phaser 13S and 13F, Roms the Dizzy 5 and 5F, and so on) And we have special shields that also benefit greatly from the extra power.

Long speech, short meaning: calling the U-Warp-Cores in general a cheat is just wrong. If on GSA one uses it, but you cant have it too, its cheating. But if its available to all who play, its a very nice and legal bonus.
 

[feargusf]

I also would hesitate to refer to this as a cheat, but personally, I believe that the only files that should be monitored are the ones for various ship items in the Common Settings file. These are the ones that someone could use to make something too powerful, too light, or too cheap. if these files are left alone, then I say let people use modified Default Core and Default Loadout files, as the prices for any superships should be adjusted accordingly so that it will take a long time to be able to buy them, like it does for a Borg Cube or a Scimitar (if you've made it available to play.  

[Tulmahk]

I think putting a Star Base warp core on a ship is cheating.  It was yet another design shortcoming of the game to put the mass of these cores at so low a figure.

Star Base warp cores should be MASSIVE.  They aren't, therefore there is no balance, hence this is an exploit.

Saying something isn't an exploit just because the exploit is available to everyone is a non-argument.  Alt+F4 is also available to everyone, still it is generally agreed that Alt+F4 to avoid ship loss is cheating.  Well, Star Base warp cores on ships is also cheating, plain and simple.

Oh, well.  I've never understood why people like playing this game on GSA anyway.  People who think game balance matters, that is.  

[Vigilante]

You are a perfect example of the attitude in GSA SFC3. For years the SFC community has considered changing the game files, outside of the game (mods), with out telling others, to be cheating. I suppose you used Borg armor on all your ships too. It was available to everybody the same way as the SB cores are.

Here are the numbers.

U-SB1                                              
PWR 172                                          
Mass 100                                    
Prest 4000                                  

U-SB2
PWR 268
Mass 100
Prest 5000

B-SB (Borg)
PWR 321
Mass 10700
Prest 30000

K-Warp X (Klingon)
PWR 146
Mass 6500
Prest 17600  

[NannerSlug]

cheaters are punks and cheating is for punks.

maybe taldren should thank God the patch is beta and this can be fixed.

[FutureTem]

Vigilante, Im holding myself a bit back now, cause I think you actually didnt use your brain before you started typing.

No, we dont have Borg-Armor, and we also dont waste our time on GSA. I'm talking about a full, relatively well-balanced mod for the game, including extra weapons, extra shields and extra ships; even extra AI races that have their own space (Rakelli and Ferengi,which normally appear only during scan or distress call missions). And if creating such a full mod is cheating, well, then I guess you also have to call people like Captain Korah or Chris Jones cheaters.

Ah, and comparing the U-Warp-Core to Alt-F4ing is almost as ridiculous as naming every legal tactic that one cant beat "cheesy" or "cheating".
Seriously, its fun to have it, believe me. And as I mentioned before, its VERY expensive to buy. Besides, all the "new" systems are expensive. Its a highly interesting mod we have, and our server hosts worked their asses off to create it.
You can find it listed as the "OSD Super Mod". (OSD = Order of Silent Death)

- Rear Admiral OSD Future, Member of the Starfleet Special Forces "Blue Rangers",
to you all here I am only known as
 

[FutureTem]

I almost forgot: May I remind you (especially Tulmakh) that we are NOT talking about real starships, SFC3 was, is and will always be just a GAME. And since a game is meant to be fun, I dont see much wrong if a mod includes things like the U-Warp. Its a game, therefore its meant to be fun, hence such a mod is NO cheat/exploit, if all who join can have it. Well, and all can have it.
 

[Pestalence]

Quote:
I almost forgot: May I remind you (especially Tulmakh) that we are NOT talking about real starships, SFC3 was, is and will always be just a GAME. And since a game is meant to be fun, I dont see much wrong if a mod includes things like the U-Warp. Its a game, therefore its meant to be fun, hence such a mod is NO cheat/exploit, if all who join can have it. Well, and all can have it.
 

And what do you propose players who play ladder matches use this "mod" only on 1 side and keeping the cost low? This unbalances the game and allows for an unfair advantage to those players who choose not to mod their game for the sake of a balanced ladder match.... or even a fair and balanced fun game... SFC 3 was made for everyone, not just modders.. Taldren should consider every aspect of this issue, not just from a Modders point of view...

SB-1 and SB 2 are designed to be unselectable by default... altering this to play on GSA during a ladder match (un modded) would be considered cheating and exploiting the game files... this is the default listing of the warp cores in question...


[WarpItems]
[WarpItems\U-WARP-SB1]
Description = "U-WARP-SB1"
Power = 150
Cost = 4000
Mass = 100
Health = 250
Race = "FKRB"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[WarpItems\U-WARP-SB2]
Description = "U-WARP-SB2"
Power = 215
Cost = 5000
Mass = 100
Health = 400
Race = "FKRB"
UnavailableForRefit = 1


with that being said.. if Taldren does decide to make the files CRC check for tampering and / or increase PP cost or mass... Modders can still alter the file and include it in their Mod DL... as well as all the other *.gf files.... so if Taldren does decide to adjust or CRC check the *.gf files, Modders will still be able to adjust it as they deem fit.. they would just have to include them in their mod pack...
 

[Vigilante]

WOW, thats twice you have failed to completely read my posts. My problems are with GSA skirmishes, NOT with D3 Mods. I also implied that the SFC community has had no problem with people that disclose use of Mods from jump. You are doing that too. I think making the prest for these items that high is great. If they appear in the regular refit section of your game, then there is no problem. The numbers I posted earlier are from unmodded ACTI Beta patch spec files. The U-SB cores are NOT available in the normal refit sections of the game. The SFC community, since SFC1, has considered manualy altering game files, without disclosure, to be cheating.

I come from SFC1 and 2 and have been playing for over a year. As you may or may not know players from 1 and 2, were unlikely to play D2 much. Its lack of live opponents was a bit of a turn off. You might as well just play single. (I know...there have been changes, but still no live ones) I like the idea of the live D3 and the inability of players to do much in the way of cheating, its just not my thing. I come from the GSA SFC community. There seems to be more commrodery there, more communication between players. There hasn't been much communication between people the times I have played in D3. I am looking for the same things in SFC3 but finding a different ideal and attitude on GSA. I come from a community that booted those with differing spec files to the point of them not being able to find a game. I believe that most in SFC2 dont mod. I think its safe to say that far more in GSA SFC3 use these mods, because its so easy and undetectable.

To Taldren I must say I was looking forward to the tech swapping in SFC3. It was billled as a feature of the game pre-release. Your oversight in the ways it would be used couldnt have been predicted without lots more testing. I understand the marketing end of the release date. Without the movie it would likely have only sold 80% of SFC2 numbers, maybe.
I hope this issue can be dealt with easily in the official patch.

 

[FutureTem]

In this case, I owe you an apology, Vigilante. Looks like I'm missing some experiences here, but then again, from what I read its nothing one really needs (about that GSA issues now).

I've also played SFC 1 massively, and SFC 2 too. I just didnt get around to use D2, since I was unable to establish a connection with SFC 2's retail version, and I didnt look for a proper  patch.

Well, I'm glad I got you right now. I'm always a bit fast on "red alert" if I see a posting that combines something that can be legally used in-game with the word "cheat".

Now, if that german version of the patch would just be released, then I'd be really happy.

Btw, that file checking thing sounds good, remembers me of some Anti-Cheat programs that were used with Counterstrike. Of course, if its not a full mod - which requires a download for all before they can participate - as we know them from D3 play, single-sided altered files are not welcome, and are cheats.
 

[feargusf]

Am I p[laying a different game here? I have played Borg and have never noticed my armor regenerating. The Hull regenerates, not the armor. The only way to get a regenerating hull is to play as a Borg, it's hard-coded into their Empire slot (the bonus they get for having no shield space. To get a regenerating hull as a non-Borg would take a lot of extreme hacking, or a knowledge of the source code. Am I wrong? Anyone?  

[Vigilante]

    Has the Star Base warp core cheat been addressed or will it be addressed? Since they are'nt race specific it does'nt seem like it would be addressed by this patch's "no tech swapping" fix, or does that "U" equal another race.  

[jdmckinney]

I can only assume from you brief mention that this is a GSA cheat with people loading base warp cores into their custom ship specs. Frankly, I don't see why ANY base cores should be universal -- each race should have its own core attributes and 3 (not 2) different cores, one per base (not including asteroid bases and shipyards).

[Vigilante]

Yes, thats the one. The real problem is that SB cores have a mass of only 100 and are universal. (except the borg one) This leaves people with the space to put better thrusters and impulse, making a ship that will turn on a dime at speed 60+ with all of its weapons at overload power. This is a problem as bad as the borg armor was. I know this is the same kind of oversite as the borg armor was. Its fix is as simple as putting a realistic mass to the cores and raising the engine space in the SB's to match. They are just text numbers, not programing.

Cheating is so rampant on GSA SFC3 I am loosing intrest in this game. The tone of GSA SFC3 is not that of SFC2. I feel there is far less honor there. Close to 50% of the games I have played there have been against someone cheating. The beta will help, but it is just a matter of time before this is as rampant as the borg armor was. Loosing to someone who took 500+ damage to my 300 with armor 5 is the only way to detect borg armor I know of. I dont know how to detect this one.  

[FutureTem]

The full name of the warp cores you speak of are "U-Warp-SB 1" and "U-Warp-SB 2". The first one generates between 300 and 350 of warp power, the second one something around 600 I think. Both only need 100 mass.
Im playing a mod in which these power cores, or at least the first one in the latest mod version, are available. You can select them in the refit menu, and all races have them.
The only "setback" that they have is that a "U-Warp-SB 1" costs around 21000 pp in that mod, almost as much as for a stock Steamrunner!
So, you need to do lots of missions to get one, but you are rewarded with having all systems fully overpowered, at least up to and including fully armed BCH hulls.

I personally like this, cause that way the battles in SFC3 are a lot faster. For example, its fun racing around in a fully armed Sovereign with max speed of 70 and a turn rate that usually only fast Nebulas or Akiras have.

Of course, another reasons for the U-Warp Core is, we also can use the "super" weapons. (Feds have the Phaser 13S and 13F, Roms the Dizzy 5 and 5F, and so on) And we have special shields that also benefit greatly from the extra power.

Long speech, short meaning: calling the U-Warp-Cores in general a cheat is just wrong. If on GSA one uses it, but you cant have it too, its cheating. But if its available to all who play, its a very nice and legal bonus.
 

[feargusf]

I also would hesitate to refer to this as a cheat, but personally, I believe that the only files that should be monitored are the ones for various ship items in the Common Settings file. These are the ones that someone could use to make something too powerful, too light, or too cheap. if these files are left alone, then I say let people use modified Default Core and Default Loadout files, as the prices for any superships should be adjusted accordingly so that it will take a long time to be able to buy them, like it does for a Borg Cube or a Scimitar (if you've made it available to play.  

[Tulmahk]

I think putting a Star Base warp core on a ship is cheating.  It was yet another design shortcoming of the game to put the mass of these cores at so low a figure.

Star Base warp cores should be MASSIVE.  They aren't, therefore there is no balance, hence this is an exploit.

Saying something isn't an exploit just because the exploit is available to everyone is a non-argument.  Alt+F4 is also available to everyone, still it is generally agreed that Alt+F4 to avoid ship loss is cheating.  Well, Star Base warp cores on ships is also cheating, plain and simple.

Oh, well.  I've never understood why people like playing this game on GSA anyway.  People who think game balance matters, that is.