Topic: Forget Kirk, bring back Sisko!

[NannerSlug]

in order of coolness

1) kirk
2) sisco
3) archer
4) picard
5) janeway

sorry, i just do not like picard that well. his character is very, very flat. data has more personality than most of the next gen crew. hehe.

[FFZ]

 Kirk is the man, no other Captain ever came close. The third season of ToS and some of the movies hurt the Kirk Character, but he's still the best.

Picard is still my number two guy, Stewart did wonders with him, at first he sucked, but as time went by, he became complex and interesting, as well as being compitent.

Sisko comes in a strong third, Brooks was superb, I loved the way DS9 stressed the father/son thing with him, and he was as good a war commander as trek has had.

Archer is next, Bakula has the potential to be the best, only the horrible writying prevents it.

Janeway makes me puke.    

[Merlinfmct87]

What in the hells is your problem with Janeway? She had 10x more character than Sisko or Picard in the series, not to mention she actually went a whole episode without making a dive for the nearest temple to ask for guidance...


Janeway will always be my favorite, tied with Kirk. Archer has a LOT of good things for him, they just need to get him out of this Xindi rut.

Merlin  

[FFZ]

 Outside of her being whiny, preachy, or annoying?

It's called my opinion, and like a lot of people, I loathed Janewway and Voyager.    

[Age]

      Right on Bro. but I would go harsh on Janeway after all they are just folling a Script and what the Directors telling them what to do and she is a good actress.I do agreee with you on Kirk though no arguement there.  

[Scipio_66]

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What in the hells is your problem with Janeway?  

Starship captains should not be seen with tears streaming down their cheeks because their first officer has hurt her feelings by disobeying her orders.

Starship captains should not offer "food and medical supplies" to an alien race in exchange for help.  The aliens live on a freaking planet(s), for crying out loud, they already grow food to feed millions of people.  How much food were you thinking to beam over from your little light cruiser?  About the only things you could possibly trade that would be of any use to an alien empire are advanced tech, rare minerals found at distant systems, or your services as a mercenary.  Since you aren't willing to trade two of those things than I suggest you start filling your hold with local gemstones as you travel from system to system or else solve your own problems.

(OK, actually that latter incident meant the the writing sucked, not that Janeway sucked.  But I lost all interest in her as a commanding officer after that former incident.)

-S'Cipio

[Merlinfmct87]

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What in the hells is your problem with Janeway?  

Starship captains should not be seen with tears streaming down their cheeks because their first officer has hurt her feelings by disobeying her orders.

Starship captains should not offer "food and medical supplies" to an alien race in exchange for help.  The aliens live on a freaking planet(s), for crying out loud, they already grow food to feed millions of people.  How much food were you thinking to beam over from your little light cruiser?  About the only things you could possibly trade that would be of any use to an alien empire are advanced tech, rare minerals found at distant systems, or your services as a mercenary.  Since you aren't willing to trade two of those things than I suggest you start filling your hold with local gemstones as you travel from system to system or else solve your own problems.

(OK, actually that latter incident meant the the writing sucked, not that Janeway sucked.  But I lost all interest in her as a commanding officer after that former incident.)

-S'Cipio  

Right. I forgot the part in the Starfleet Rulebook saying that people can't have feelings. Take Picard, for example. "No, I'm fine. I was assimilated, killed 1/2 of starfleet, and was 1/2 an inch away from totaling the Federation, but I'm A'OK because I've got my Earl Grey Hot!" It wasn't until First Contact that he showed any backbone. And if you look at the episode your reffering to, the aliens they were trading for were on a DESERT PLANET!

Get it? Nothing grows?

Now, there were some serious problems with Voyager. Neelix and Kes. I can't stand them. When I got the Elite Force demo I spent the first couple days doing nothing but fragging Neelix in a holomatch. But there were some very good points about it.

Don't take me too seriously, I just *really* didn't like sisko. Odo, Quark, and Garrick were the only people I liked.

[DonKarnage]

bring sulu and riker back.

i have see a few episode of enterprise and it was bad, the timeline is mixt, the enconter the borg before picard encounter them, dahm whos the moron who hired the scrip guy, read the books and manual, watch theepisode of startrek, the tng, ds9 and voyager, get the 8 movies (the rest was also a bad script) so the will not badly make the next statrek serie (if the do make new one) if the do one before kirk but after the enterprise, like the daedalus class could be interesting if the dont mess it up like enconter with secies 8472, the planet killer, the probe from st4, or anithing that will append in the 23th and 24 century.


we should do script ourself since we know more that them.  

[Lieutenant_Q]

do the scripts ourselves....

Thats Brilliant!!!!  Maybe we can save Star Trek by submitting scripts for Enterprise...Most of us here could come up with better stuff than they put on UPN now anyway...I'd get started on that Idea, but I currently have other engagements.  Maybe tommorow or Sunday, after I put up the next chapter of my story/script for ST:XI    

[feargusf]

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What in the hells is your problem with Janeway? She had 10x more character than Sisko or Picard in the series, not to mention she actually went a whole episode without making a dive for the nearest temple to ask for guidance...


Janeway will always be my favorite, tied with Kirk. Archer has a LOT of good things for him, they just need to get him out of this Xindi rut.

Merlin  

Sisko rarely aked for the Prophets' help, they usually forced it on him through visions.

As for Janeway, I don't really mind her being emotional, but, perhaps due to Kate Mulgrew's performance, I didn't really buy any of her "emotions", she just didn't convince me.

Plus, she lost her ship to the friggin' Kazon!  

[Lepton1]

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in order of coolness

1) kirk
2) sisco
3) archer
4) picard
5) janeway

sorry, i just do not like picard that well. his character is very, very flat. data has more personality than most of the next gen crew. hehe.  

I guess it is obligatory to start with Kirk but I am going to leave him out as the rest are not exactly comparable.  Not that KIrk is great.  He is great in earlier stuff, towards the end you can see that Shatner is not into it anymore, although I was impressed of late with some of his performances in early stuff.

1.  Picard - He is the quintessential explorer/diplomat/commander.  I don't think there has ever been more dignity and intelligence brought to a popular Sci-Fi role than with Patrick Stewart.  He is polar opposite of Kirk.  He isn't flat at all.  He is deep and reserved from the school af acting where less is more, not a cartoon caricature like most of the TNG crew.

2.  Archer - Again a scholar/diplomat/commander.  Bakula can be quiet and intense.  He is doing a great job,but it may be too early to tell as the show is very young and may never get older at this point.  His character is handling very difficult moral issues and Bakula is dealing with it in a competent manner.

3.  Janeway - This is more of a familiarity vote.  Janeway is mother/commander/lover/destroyer.  Definitely one of the most charismatic people to hold the role of starship captain, although they made her say and do some stupid things on that show.  Comic, sexual, stern, compassionate- great role for a women.  She can be a bit over the top in her acting, but that is countered by her good use of relative flamboyance to spice things up.

4.  Sisco - I never connected with this captain or this show really.  I missed most of the Dominion War and have been trying to see it ever since, but they keep skipping over it in syndication.  He seems like a complainer to me and I never hooked up with Avery Brooks' acting style.  Reminded me too much of his role on Spencer for Hire, although I suppose Samuel L Jackson is similar in his roles as well, so are all actors in general.  That I had never seen Stewart or Mulgrew in anything else makes them seem fresh, but Bakula familiar yet different than he was in Quantum Leap.  Kira was the most engaging character on DS9 except for all the silly romance stuff with the vedic and Odo.  I could do without that.

[Scipio_66]

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Right. I forgot the part in the Starfleet Rulebook saying that people can't have feelings. Take Picard, for example. "No, I'm fine. I was assimilated, killed 1/2 of starfleet, and was 1/2 an inch away from totaling the Federation, but I'm A'OK because I've got my Earl Grey Hot!" It wasn't until First Contact that he showed any backbone.

Who says you can't have feelings?  Kirk had a lot of feelings (cue cheesey soft porn music.)  Picard had a lot of feelings he had to deal with after the event you mention.  As to the latter, taking leave to go home and visit your family -- put yourself back together, out of view, after wrecking starfleet -- is perfectly acceptable in a commander.  But tears streaming down your cheeks because one of your senior officers disobeyed you?  Put him in the brig for a few days if he's been insubordinate, but don't cry about it.  What kind of command authority do tears over hurt feelings breed?

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And if you look at the episode your reffering to, the aliens they were trading for were on a DESERT PLANET!

Get it? Nothing grows?

I remember aliens on starships, I don't recall a desert planet.  I wouldn't be surprised if we are remembering different episodes.  "Aliens wanting advanced tech we can't give them" seemed to happen a lot on Voyager.  But let us say you are right and it was a population with a desert homeworld.  The planet obviously grew enough food to produce a star-faring race.  Even if that population is hungry now, how can one little light cruiser -- with Neelix minding the stove -- beam down enough foodstuffs to make a difference?

I can see the negotiations now............


TUVAK:  Captain, I have established communications with  the alien ambassador.

JANEWAY:  Excellent!  Put him onscreen.  <image appears>  Greetings, Ambassador.  I am Captain Janeway, of the United Federation ship Voyager.

ALIEN:  Greetings, captain.  You are matronly but I find you strangely attractive.  I am Alien236, ambassador for 147 hundred million people that live on a planet that cannot grow anything.  Thus we are starving.  How may I help you?

JANEWAY:  We wish to pass through your space without conflict.  We are willing to negotiate for permission.

ALIEN236:  Why would you need to ask for our permission?  I've already told you we are 147 hundred million people with no food.  Why don't you just wait two days?  We'll all be dead and you can pass without conflict.

JANEWAY:  We are a long way from home, ambassador, and cannot spare even two days.  However, perhaps there is some way in which we can help you.  Then we could pay for our passage through your space and suffer no delay.

ALIEN236:  Now there is an idea.  We'd be very interested in some of your advanced weaponry.

JANEWAY:  Weapons?  Why would you want those?

ALIEN236:  Well, see, there is this planet right next door that is capable of growing a lot of things, but they won't give us any food.  They say they don't have enough to share with 147 hundred million people.  So if you give us weapons, we'll go over and take what we need by force.

JANEWAY:  <shocked>  Did you people just evolve yesterday??!!  We are not going to give you weapons to start a war!

ALIEN236 <surprised she would ask such an obvious question>:  Why of course we just evolved yesterday.  Didn't you hear me say we were 147 hundred million people on a planet that couldn't grow anything?  If we had evolved before yesterday then we'd have already starved before today.  If you won't give us weapons, perhaps you could just go kill all our neighbors for us.  Then we could go live on their planet and survive.

JANEWAY:  <tears streaming down her cheeks>  Whaaaaahhhh!!!!! Tuvok, help me!  The ambassador is being unreasonable!  And that hurts my feelings!

TUVOK:  Perhaps we could find a way for them to reverse the polarity of their planet's magnetic field.  Then we could bombard their planet with a whozitsflotsit beam.  Their soil might become fertile and they could grow their own food. It would take months, and they would starve to death long before we were done, but this delay of months would save us the delay of days.

JANEWAY:  <confused>  What?  That doesn't make sense.  But it does give me an idea!  <turns back to screen>  Ambassador!  I have an idea!  We will pay you with food instead of weapons!

ALIEN236:  Excellent!  Have your chef beam down bacon and eggs for 147 hundred million starving people; at once, please!  We are already hungry from a day spent with no food.  Later we'll discuss breakfast for tomorrow.  Does you chef have a menu we can pick from?

NELIX:  <runs screaming onto the bridge; he knows he's been mentioned>  Captain!  147 hundred million?  You can't be serious!  I can whip up enough oozy, dripping goo to feed another three families of six.  But that's it!  I only have so many hours in the day!

JANEWAY:  Start cooking, Nelix.  It's going to be a long night.  And no one on that world is going to bed without a meal.  We've the ideals of the Federation to think of.




-S'Cipio the scribe  

[Magnum357]

Guys... why the hell do I always hear a lot of bickering about "whos the best Captain" all the time?  I think they are all awsome Captains, even Janeway or Sulu.  If I was in Starfleet I would be honored too serve under them.

I thought Janeway was an interesting character actually.  Their where a few incidents in Voyager where I think the had more Balls then Kirk in certain situations.  And I must add that i enjoyed Seasons 4 through 7 much more then 1 through 3.  Far better stories for the most part and the Voyager story actually had a little more Arc too it.  the only bad thing I thought they really did was make the Borg a little easy too kill, but they still were scary in some situations during the series.  

As for Archer, I think Bakula is not doing too badly as a Starfleet Captain, but as many people have pointed out, the story writing for the show is lackluster so it might be affecting the potential of the Archer Character.  I also think Bakula, kinda over acts a tad too much like Kirk, but its just superfical at most and not really relevent.  

As for Sisko, I know Brooks is not a great Star Trek fan (I can't blaim the guy, Star Trek actors usually have a hard time getting roles after Star Trek) but I thought he was one of the best Actors of all the series.  His acting in some of the DS9 episodes almost made me cry (Gasp!)  The guy has a lot of potential.

[NannerSlug]

i am dying here from laughter scippy. that is the best voyager impression i have seen yet. HA!

[Maxillius]

The thing you gotta keep in mind about Archer is that he's not a Federation Starfleet captain, but an Earth Starfleet captain.  We all know how the Earth military takes to being attacked, and there are only two crew members that are from different worlds on Enterprise, so Archer's attitude isn't tempered by the thoughts and feelings of 150 races of people.  He takes Vulcan and Denobulan advice at times, but Enterprise is a HUMAN ship on a mission for EARTH with nothing else in mind besides retaliation for the Xindi attack.

Now, as Federation captains go, I think Picard has the attitude down cold, with Janeway a close second in that regard.  Consider, Voyager is a light cruiser, and she was only supposed to be there 6 weeks, not 7 years.  In that respect, Janeway made the best of the situation, but I think Picard or Riker would've handled things a bit differently.  Kirk would've gone out of his cotton-pickin mind!

I just don't see a reason for Kirk, why he's so popular.  And who's this Sisko guy?

[Age]

     I am not going to Entertain this one but I will agree with you Maxillius but I like it when Kirk goes out of his mind.I liked it in the Wrath of Kahn when he scream up at him from the planet down below.I want to see Kirk when he loses some lbs that is you see what not doing Star Trek has Done these people J Doohan has gianed waight to.It will be intesting to see the TNG crew in 10 years.

     I am sometimes out of my mine d to that is why run into them with my ship off course. not head

  Sisko can be seen on DS9 on Spike @7PM pacific    

[Laflin]

I liked DS9 and Avery Brooks, but no one can chew lines like Bill Shatner - as proof watch him devour the Preamble in "The Omega Glory"    

[Merlinfmct87]

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Right. I forgot the part in the Starfleet Rulebook saying that people can't have feelings. Take Picard, for example. "No, I'm fine. I was assimilated, killed 1/2 of starfleet, and was 1/2 an inch away from totaling the Federation, but I'm A'OK because I've got my Earl Grey Hot!" It wasn't until First Contact that he showed any backbone.

Who says you can't have feelings?  Kirk had a lot of feelings (cue cheesey soft porn music.)  Picard had a lot of feelings he had to deal with after the event you mention.

Right. He just never showed it to the audiance.

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 As to the latter, taking leave to go home and visit your family -- put yourself back together, out of view, after wrecking starfleet -- is perfectly acceptable in a commander.  But tears streaming down your cheeks because one of your senior officers disobeyed you?  Put him in the brig for a few days if he's been insubordinate, but don't cry about it.  What kind of command authority do tears over hurt feelings breed?

It's a character building moment. You know, those moments in between Riker Chicks and Photon-Eating Romulans?

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And if you look at the episode your reffering to, the aliens they were trading for were on a DESERT PLANET!

Get it? Nothing grows?

I remember aliens on starships, I don't recall a desert planet.  I wouldn't be surprised if we are remembering different episodes.  "Aliens wanting advanced tech we can't give them" seemed to happen a lot on Voyager.  But let us say you are right and it was a population with a desert homeworld.  The planet obviously grew enough food to produce a star-faring race.  Even if that population is hungry now, how can one little light cruiser -- with Neelix minding the stove -- beam down enough foodstuffs to make a difference?

One little light cruiser with a nifty little piece of technology called a replicator. Yes, they can make more that tea. AND, your not feeding the planet, just a token gesture. Your also providing the methods to grow more. See, plants have seeds. Seeds Grow. Seeds feed planet.

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I can see the negotiations now............


TUVAK:  Captain, I have established communications with  the alien ambassador.

JANEWAY:  Excellent!  Put him onscreen.  <image appears>  Greetings, Ambassador.  I am Captain Janeway, of the United Federation ship Voyager.

ALIEN:  Greetings, captain.  You are matronly but I find you strangely attractive.  I am Alien236, ambassador for 147 hundred million people that live on a planet that cannot grow anything.  Thus we are starving.  How may I help you?

JANEWAY:  We wish to pass through your space without conflict.  We are willing to negotiate for permission.

ALIEN236:  Why would you need to ask for our permission?  I've already told you we are 147 hundred million people with no food.  Why don't you just wait two days?  We'll all be dead and you can pass without conflict.

JANEWAY:  We are a long way from home, ambassador, and cannot spare even two days.  However, perhaps there is some way in which we can help you.  Then we could pay for our passage through your space and suffer no delay.

ALIEN236:  Now there is an idea.  We'd be very interested in some of your advanced weaponry.

JANEWAY:  Weapons?  Why would you want those?

ALIEN236:  Well, see, there is this planet right next door that is capable of growing a lot of things, but they won't give us any food.  They say they don't have enough to share with 147 hundred million people.  So if you give us weapons, we'll go over and take what we need by force.

JANEWAY:  <shocked>  Did you people just evolve yesterday??!!  We are not going to give you weapons to start a war!

ALIEN236 <surprised she would ask such an obvious question>:  Why of course we just evolved yesterday.  Didn't you hear me say we were 147 hundred million people on a planet that couldn't grow anything?  If we had evolved before yesterday then we'd have already starved before today.  If you won't give us weapons, perhaps you could just go kill all our neighbors for us.  Then we could go live on their planet and survive.

JANEWAY:  <tears streaming down her cheeks>  Whaaaaahhhh!!!!! Tuvok, help me!  The ambassador is being unreasonable!  And that hurts my feelings!

TUVOK:  Perhaps we could find a way for them to reverse the polarity of their planet's magnetic field.  Then we could bombard their planet with a whozitsflotsit beam.  Their soil might become fertile and they could grow their own food. It would take months, and they would starve to death long before we were done, but this delay of months would save us the delay of days.

JANEWAY:  <confused>  What?  That doesn't make sense.  But it does give me an idea!  <turns back to screen>  Ambassador!  I have an idea!  We will pay you with food instead of weapons!

ALIEN236:  Excellent!  Have your chef beam down bacon and eggs for 147 hundred million starving people; at once, please!  We are already hungry from a day spent with no food.  Later we'll discuss breakfast for tomorrow.  Does you chef have a menu we can pick from?

NELIX:  <runs screaming onto the room; he knows he's been mentioned>  Captain!  147 hundred million?  You can't be serious!  I can whip up enough oozy, dripping goo to feed another three families of six.  But that's it!  I only have so many hours in the day!

JANEWAY:  Start cooking, Nelix.  It's going to be a long night.  And no one on that world is going to bed without a meal.  We've the ideals of the Federation to think of.




-S'Cipio the scribe    

Now that is just too inane for comment    

[Merlinfmct87]

Quote:
The thing you gotta keep in mind about Archer is that he's not a Federation Starfleet captain, but an Earth Starfleet captain.  We all know how the Earth military takes to being attacked, and there are only two crew members that are from different worlds on Enterprise, so Archer's attitude isn't tempered by the thoughts and feelings of 150 races of people.  He takes Vulcan and Denobulan advice at times, but Enterprise is a HUMAN ship on a mission for EARTH with nothing else in mind besides retaliation for the Xindi attack.

Now, as Federation captains go, I think Picard has the attitude down cold, with Janeway a close second in that regard.  Consider, Voyager is a light cruiser, and she was only supposed to be there 6 weeks, not 7 years.  In that respect, Janeway made the best of the situation, but I think Picard or Riker would've handled things a bit differently.  Kirk would've gone out of his cotton-pickin mind!

I just don't see a reason for Kirk, why he's so popular.  And who's this Sisko guy?  

Bingo Bango Bongo. Right on target mister  

[FFZ]

   Janeway's eneptness caused the mission to be 7 years, Kirk would have found a better way staight away.

BTW, Kirk NEVER lost it in tough spots.

He's simply the best, the others are just pale reflections.