Topic: From beyond the galaxy, designed by an ancient race to fight the Borg...

[Ryker]

... was the ultimate weapon of last resort...






The Doomsday Machine.






Has anyone done a model of it for SFC3? If not, would it be possible to actually do....?   This would Kick ASS!!!  





(P.S.- If anyone here's read Peter David's "Vendetta", they'll know the Doomsday Machine was originally designed to fight the Borg, and that a second, larger, far more powerful design was waiting to be launched when it's builders (the Preservers) were assimilated. Its available for a cent at Amazon,  here  )

 

 

       

[Rat_Boy]

I could tell you, but then somebody you and I are aquainted with would have to kill me.  

Actualy, I speculated that the Planet Killer was designed to kill Andromedans rather than Borg.

[Klingon Fanatic]

IMHO Spacecadetglowuk's Doomsday Machine is the closest to a canon Doomsday Machine we have. It is available at Atheorhaven's site here:

http://www.the-tcs.net/_hosted/atheorhaven/html/alec/m3m3s2_1.htm

If you want to try a different version, check out Azel's Borg-like version. The link to it escapes me at the moment.

KF

[InragedSith]

Quote:
... was the ultimate weapon of last resort...

The Doomsday Machine.      

Hate to nitpick

For all we know The Galactic Empire built the Doomsday Machine to wipe out Rebel scum

[Major A Payne]

It was created by Mr Kipling to make the universes largest cream horn.

[ModelsPlease]

I have to ask since I am no genius at vintage trek trivia.Did this Peter David create the original doomsday machine for the TOS show ? Or did he write the episode ? Where the borg even a concept during the 60's ?  
-MP  

[DeltaAssault]

Yes, they tried to assimilate Spock's brain.

[ModelsPlease]

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Yes, they tried to assimilate Spock's brain.  

Was that the episode that McKoy had the remote control Spock body?  

[Marauth]

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Yes, they tried to assimilate Spock's brain.

no the Borg were not even a concept back in the '60's although GR himself speculated that the machine planet V'Ger returned from in TMP was the Borg homeworld after they did the first Borg ep. Q Who I believe it was.

The TOS ep. Spock's Brain was the biggest pile of steaming sh1t I've ever seen, absolute garbage, second only to the monstrosity that was the Voyager ep. Threshold for similar reasons.

Edit: oh and Spock's Brain was nothin to do with the Borg it was a planet inhabited by a bunch of human-alikes the males suffering on the surface (Morg) the females with all the tech but absolutely no intelligence safely pampered underground by a big computer (Eymorg) They even had this cute little rocket shipthey used to attack the Enterprise. McCoy used their machines to give himself the knowledge to perform a brain-transplant!!1!

[ModelsPlease]

Quote:

Quote:
Yes, they tried to assimilate Spock's brain.

no the Borg were not even a concept back in the '60's although GR himself speculated that the machine planet V'Ger returned from in TMP was the Borg homeworld after they did the first Borg ep. Q Who I believe it was.

The TOS ep. Spock's Brain was the biggest pile of steaming sh1t I've ever seen, absolute garbage, second only to the monstrosity that was the Voyager ep. Threshold for similar reasons.

Edit: oh and Spock's Brain was nothin to do with the Borg it was a planet inhabited by a bunch of human-alikes the males suffering on the surface (Morg) the females with all the tech but absolutely no intelligence safely pampered underground by a big computer (Eymorg) They even had this cute little rocket shipthey used to attack the Enterprise. McCoy used their machines to give himself the knowledge to perform a brain-transplant!!1!

So in short what you're saying is the Doomsday Machine being created to destroy the Borg is B.S. I figured as much but just wanted to be sure. Thanks sir.
-MP  

[Ryker]

Not really BS. While there is no 'canon' evidence to state conclusively that the DM was built to fight the Borg, it was theorized by Peter David using a fair amount of supplementary evidence, unusual coincidence, and one hell of a good idea to tie together a cracking monster of  the Original Series with the Next Generation's most effective and ruthless enemy.


Go read the book    

[Futurama_Guy]

Quote:

So in short what you're saying is the Doomsday Machine being created to destroy the Borg is B.S. I figured as much but just wanted to be sure. Thanks sir.
-MP  

Actually there is a really good novel called "Vendetta" that has a second doomsday machine in it.  This takes place somewhere between season 3-5 of TNG.   It involves a lot of Borg and an assimilated Ferengi "representitive" (think Locutus) and the USS Repulse and the Planetkiller fighting the Borg.   It is a really good interpretation to continuation of the TOS Planetkiller story after the creation of the Borg in TNG and then tying the two together as the thread suggests.   I read it about 10-12 years ago, but that seems to be the jist of it.  The idea is sound and is very reminiscent of what was eventually used in Voyager for the episodes "Scorpion".

[Futurama_Guy]

Actually, the only real problem with playing it is SFC3 is that you cannot give it enough to make it as almighty as it is intended to be.   Supposedly it had an armor hull that was inpenitrable, which is not an option in armors, etal, in SFC3.  Also, if you equipped it with every weapon available it still wouldn't have much more teeth than a Borg cube does in the game.   I've played it several times on SFC3 against the Borg and it didn't last too long against a SB and a couple cubes.

[Rat_Boy]

Quote:
Actually there is a really good novel called "Vendetta" that has a second doomsday machine in it.  This takes place somewhere between season 3-5 of TNG.   It involves a lot of Borg and an assimilated Ferengi "representitive" (think Locutus) and the USS Repulse and the Planetkiller fighting the Borg.   It is a really good interpretation to continuation of the TOS Planetkiller story after the creation of the Borg in TNG and then tying the two together as the thread suggests.   I read it about 10-12 years ago, but that seems to be the jist of it.  The idea is sound and is very reminiscent of what was eventually used in Voyager for the episodes "Scorpion".  

A lot of it was thrown out by "I, Borg", First Contact, and Voyager as you said, but it also contradicts a bit of established canon, as well.  The fact that the Borg had no females, for instance, even though several in "Q Who?" looked female.  The captain of the Repulse was a male in an episode of TNG, but suddenly became a female by the novel.  There were a bunch of other problems I and a lot of people had with the book and it generally isn't regarded as one of the better ones.

[Futurama_Guy]

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Quote:
Actually there is a really good novel called "Vendetta" that has a second doomsday machine in it.  This takes place somewhere between season 3-5 of TNG.   It involves a lot of Borg and an assimilated Ferengi "representitive" (think Locutus) and the USS Repulse and the Planetkiller fighting the Borg.   It is a really good interpretation to continuation of the TOS Planetkiller story after the creation of the Borg in TNG and then tying the two together as the thread suggests.   I read it about 10-12 years ago, but that seems to be the jist of it.  The idea is sound and is very reminiscent of what was eventually used in Voyager for the episodes "Scorpion".  

A lot of it was thrown out by "I, Borg", First Contact, and Voyager as you said, but it also contradicts a bit of established canon, as well.  The fact that the Borg had no females, for instance, even though several in "Q Who?" looked female.  The captain of the Repulse was a male in an episode of TNG, but suddenly became a female by the novel.  There were a bunch of other problems I and a lot of people had with the book and it generally isn't regarded as one of the better ones.  

Okay, thats just petty trivial nit-picking.  For one you have to realize that a lot is going to be thrown out because, well, it was wriitten in 1991, a year after BoBW's, so of course it is going to contradict canon, considering that canon wasn't even really established at that point.  Anyway, the point is, I read it when it was new (or relatively new) and "I, Borg" and Voyager hadn't come along to plant further Borg plots in the Trek Universe, so it was pretty good in relation to what was already established.  The only bad reviews I have seen on it are based on people who have read it in retrospect and were spoiled with 20 seasons and 4 movies of Star Trek that have since been established.

Also, I don't recall the captain being at all female, nothing was implied that it was a "she".
 

[Rat_Boy]

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Also, I don't recall the captain being at all female, nothing was implied that it was a "she".

Captain Taggert of the Repulse was seen during TNG's 2nd Season.  In Vendetta, Captain Taggert got a first name of Ariel and was clearly referred to as a she.  Peter David was on a sex-change kick back in those days when it came to periphery characters.  Besides, you forget the disclaimer at the front of the book:

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The plot and background details of Vendetta are solely the author's interpretation of the the universe of STAR TREK and vary in some respects from the universe as created by Gene Roddenberry.

Gene and his assistant only ordered these disclaimers on books they really didn't like or thought violated the spirit of Trek left and right.  One wonders how many disclaimers would be on David's later (and arguably very inferior) novels and the "Shanterverse" books.

[atheorhaven]

And I'm working on a SFC 3 glowed and converted version of it, although I have no idea how it'd be weaponed to be right.  So it'd be converting over the current layout, but no spec files..

[Captain Pierce]

IIRC, Roddenberry really had no say in what novels got published or what disclaimers got put on them.  And I think he felt that they all violated the spirit of Trek.  OTOH, he also thought that Star Trek II violated the spirit of Trek, so I tend not to trust his judgement too much about what the "spirit of Trek" was in the 1980's or beyond...  While on the subject of Gene, that remark of his about how the machine planet V'Ger encountered might have been the Borg homeworld has never made even the least bit of sense to me--not only did V'Ger not come back to Earth intent on assimilating its Creator or anything else, the simple fact of the matter is that the Borg never had anything like the technology that V'Ger did...

IMO, the best Star Trek novels tend to be the ones that are later contradicted by "canon" material--and usually the "canon" material winds up being inferior to the novel that it contradicts.  And, really, you can't blame the novelists for taking a few liberties from canon--because their novels are dismissed as non-canon before they've even figured out what they're going to be about!  At least Trek authors know that going in, unlike the Star Wars authors that have had to watch Lucas increasingly invalidate their work with every prequel he makes...

In the case of the planet-killer possibly being designed to fight the Borg... the bottom line for me is that it makes about as much sense as any other theory of why it may have been created.  Being from a non-canon novel doesn't make it any more likely than any other theory--but it doesn't make it any less likely, either, because any theory on why the planet-killer was created is "complete B.S." from a canon POV...  

[ModelsPlease]

Quote:

Quote:

So in short what you're saying is the Doomsday Machine being created to destroy the Borg is B.S. I figured as much but just wanted to be sure. Thanks sir.
-MP  

Actually there is a really good novel called "Vendetta" that has a second doomsday machine in it.  This takes place somewhere between season 3-5 of TNG.   It involves a lot of Borg and an assimilated Ferengi "representitive" (think Locutus) and the USS Repulse and the Planetkiller fighting the Borg.   It is a really good interpretation to continuation of the TOS Planetkiller story after the creation of the Borg in TNG and then tying the two together as the thread suggests.   I read it about 10-12 years ago, but that seems to be the jist of it.  The idea is sound and is very reminiscent of what was eventually used in Voyager for the episodes "Scorpion".  

I think I like the loose strings that is TOS Trek.Trying to tie up loose ends 30+ years apart,to me seem pointless.It's far more fun to speculate and debate.Sorry sir but I don't buy into the Doomsday machine being built to destroy the Borg.Perhaps a race copied the original one that was destroyed in TOS Trek.That is at least possible since they had the destroyed one to examine.Quick scenario...... a Ferengi "proliferates" a Federation report on what was found upon examination of the device.IE schematics,photos, power readings, etc.........then sells them to someone(anyones guess).These people in turn build a NEW machine hoping it will protect them from Borg assimulation.Just my $.02 and some crazy speculation and BTW my speculation just cost you $.01 more then the novel
-MP    

[Core]

first of heloo
and second the preservers coold not heve been asimielated by the borg coz if they did then the borg whoold have asimilated tera after pulvorizing star fleet at wolf 365, sence the preservers ar much more advaced then the feds and the borg in evry sence of the word

"but then again the first federation coold be the borg the selfs<-- "

 

[sandman69247]

Well, I can't say as I've read the book or anything, but the idea that the doomsday machine was built to fight the Borg really doesn't make sense. I've always felt it was, as the name suggests, a last effort to defeat some ancient enemy that has continued to operate. I mean, if the only way to kill one is to fly a cruiser sized vessel into the maw and blow it up, then the thing wouldn't last very long...the Borg would have no trouble sacrificing a cube to end the threat.

As for the comment about Lucas and SW, I feel that at least SW continuity makes more sense. Sure the novels may have paid a little, but the movies and "canon" facts are more in keeping with what we have seen. Why? Because B&B don't work for SW.

My $.02    

[Ryker]

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Well, I can't say as I've read the book or anything, but the idea that the doomsday machine was built to fight the Borg really doesn't make sense.

Actually, it does. When the Borg assimilate a planet (Best of Both Worlds style), they scoop all the cities and relevant technology off the face of it for mass assimilation within the Cube, leaving lifeless balls of rock in their wake. The Doomsday Machine was designed to use these lifeless planets as fuel, in quite a beautiful twist of irony  

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 I've always felt it was, as the name suggests, a last effort to defeat some ancient enemy that has continued to operate.

You mean, the Borg...?

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I mean, if the only way to kill one is to fly a cruiser sized vessel into the maw and blow it up, then the thing wouldn't last very long...the Borg would have no trouble sacrificing a cube to end the threat.

That was a flaw with the original design- in the book, the Mark II actually sucks in a Borg Cube and digests it for power, warp core and all...

Also, there is a discontinity with the original episode. The DM was destroyed by overloading the Constellation's impulse engines, and yet if it was successful in sucking in the Enterprise, surely the explosion from the Enterprise's warp core would have destroyed it....??

I suggest watching the original episode, then the Best of Both Worlds, and THEN read the book. You should enjoy it far more without having to think of Voyager's butchering of them    

[atheorhaven]

Just to mention it, there is a SFC 3 conversion of this one in the works..




Just sent it over to Nannerslug just to give it a look over to see if I made any glaring errors in the conversion..

[Ryker]

Bump- any word on this baby's conversion status?