Topic: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed  (Read 4378 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

sandman69247

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2004, 08:07:41 pm »
Atra, this just proves how damn lucky we all are that you decided to re-join us as a modeller. OMG!! That's beautiful!!  

Cmdr_Kell

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2004, 09:44:44 pm »
Those have to be the best looking Tholians I have ever seen!  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Cmdr_Kell »

Atrahasis

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2004, 11:40:43 pm »
If there are any critical comments say your peace now.....LOL I will meditate on this ship a bit more and then release it.

Dizzy

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2004, 01:02:23 am »
It's too short, atra. The thols had access to one hull type they could build alone. They linked 2x together to make a CA and 3-4x to make a BC/DN. If left as short as it seems in the pic, I fear they run the risk of just looking snub and silly like. I'd ask you to make them longer please, do the limo stretch.

Other than that, Please add some contrasting color. Perhaps red or yellow or both in the front and/or back for the impulse and weapon port... something to give more color than what it has now. Something to brighten it up. I was watching a home improvement show and the term they used was 'warmth'... Yeah, so they need a bit of 'warmth'. Hehe. I was focred to watch it with my wife!

At the very least, leave us with seperate textures for the front and back in case we want to change that part of the ship color w/o it affecting other parts of the mesh. Some modelers use one part of a texture in many places on a ship, so i hope that can be avoided in this circumstance.

Hey, you wanted critical.  

Sethan

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2004, 01:23:07 am »
Very nice.  Best Tholian I've seen.

Atrahasis

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2004, 04:16:20 am »
Quote:

It's too short, atra. The thols had access to one hull type they could build alone. They linked 2x together to make a CA and 3-4x to make a BC/DN. If left as short as it seems in the pic, I fear they run the risk of just looking snub and silly like. I'd ask you to make them longer please, do the limo stretch.

Other than that, Please add some contrasting color. Perhaps red or yellow or both in the front and/or back for the impulse and weapon port... something to give more color than what it has now. Something to brighten it up. I was watching a home improvement show and the term they used was 'warmth'... Yeah, so they need a bit of 'warmth'. Hehe. I was focred to watch it with my wife!

At the very least, leave us with seperate textures for the front and back in case we want to change that part of the ship color w/o it affecting other parts of the mesh. Some modelers use one part of a texture in many places on a ship, so i hope that can be avoided in this circumstance.

Hey, you wanted critical.  




Actually, aren't you talking about the Archeo-Tholains only when you say that all they could do was weld PC hulls together to make new ships? I could be wrong on this, but the Neo-Tholians had more advanced designs, presumably theyt could do more than just weld pieces together.

As for the length of the ship.........the canon length is *ONLY* 52 meters. That's smaller than a Klingon BOP for pete's sake, which is supposed to be 120 or so. However, for fun's sake I made my first release Tholian Web Caster 100 meters otherwise it was just too unbearably small. The basic Tholian Patrol Corvette, in my opinion, should have a minimum length of 100 meters in-game.......it could be made larger of course, but where to draw the line?

So............if we're going to make Heavy Cruiser variants from these PC hulls, and presumably one would want heavy cruisers that look and feel like heavy cruisers and not like frigates.........the basic size of the Patrol Corvette should be increased in-game, to possibly as long as 200 meters (double the size I made it now). But then that would be far from "canon", no?

What do you guys think I should make the length of the Patrol Corvette, keeping in mind the F-CA is about 300 meters and the D-7 is about 220:


What length should the basic Tholian Patrol Ship (Web Caster) be?
50 meters
100 meters
200 meters


 

Atrahasis

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2004, 04:20:50 am »
 Atra, I am sure you don?t mean to be ungracious.
The complements you are receiving do not deserve to be met in a disdainful manner.


Taldren_Admin
« Last Edit: March 31, 2004, 01:09:23 pm by Taldren_Admin »

Dizzy

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2004, 07:08:33 am »
I agree with seethan, it is the best yet.

As far as canon goes, blah... This is for dyna play and gsa. We are right around the corner from making tholians more than a cameo klingon/federation mix of race like on my SG3 server... We will have real working Thols. So for the sake of SFC2 dynaverse, I'd say make them whatever size they need to be on the dyna...

What size is that? Well, the smaller the model, the smaller the shield radius and the harder it becomes to hit with Tbombs, just one of many advantages of having a small shield radius...

Thats one advantage to keep in mind doing the model. I'd not vote for 100 or 200, they both feel wrong to me. Given the amount of volume inside the model itself, I'd say 150m would be perfect...

And yeah, atra, Im talking about tyhe archeo thols that welded/joined hulls together. The Neo-Thols came later around 2275+? and they had aft hulls much like the aft Klingon hulls.

Fury_of_a_Seraph

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2004, 07:16:42 am »
Easy
Take the Middleground - 150m

Atrahasis

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2004, 07:49:52 am »
Hmmm 150.....

Does anyone have access to the Klingon Academy Tholian models in 3ds or mod format? I can envision my doing quickies to all of them for the beginnings of a Tholian fleet.  

Dizzy

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2004, 07:52:20 am »
You were gunning for 150m the whole time, wernt u?

Fury_of_a_Seraph

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2004, 07:57:17 am »
Lol
oh come on - it makes sense

Marauth

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2004, 08:04:28 am »
Well SFB said that the Tarantula (3 hulls together) was the size of a DN but the firpower of a BC so they have to be fairly big to make 3 of them the size of a DN, I'd agree with 150m for the basic PC hull, on a side note is there not a DD made by gunnin-up the PC with disruptor cannons and extra phasers? I have a model by Brezzgone that looks like that but don't know if it's SFB canon.

Oh and dunno who mentioned the welding but theres also an Archeo-Tholian with 4 hulls called the Revenge which is a combination of the DN and CW, another Brezzgone model exists of it but the shadowing was all screwed up.

The SFB Tholians were just civilian refugees who never had access to the military vessels, the Neo-Tholians (who ironically left the home galaxy first) were the 312th fleet and so were composed of the proper Tholian military vessels which had the advanced webcasters that can be fired from only one vessel instead of requiring two.

Lord Schtupp

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2004, 12:44:56 pm »
50 meters tops I say atra.... You recall the exterior shot in The Tholian Web where the Thol ship passes in front of the Enterprise while the web was being constructed. The Tholian looked about 25-30 meters to me if not smaller...


Also I was thinking that the hull constuction should be like 50-50 metallic/crystal. Just a thought....

ChrisJohnson

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2004, 02:25:53 pm »
I disagree with Schtupp.  I say between 100-200m.  If we go strictly canonical, by TNG times we can be harassed around by Corellian Freighters that actually belong in a galaxy far far away.  And we'd be seeing battleships that are very small... Can battleships and dreadnoughs and battlecrusiers be really small?  Lets not forget how the B'rel-class Bird of Prey Kirk stole in Star Trek 6 shrunk by half in Star Trek IV.

jimkirk

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2004, 02:48:31 pm »
W odpowiedzi na:

Atra, this just proves how damn lucky we all are that you decided to re-join us as a modeller. OMG!! That's beautiful!!  




Well Sandman I must agree to it BTW Atra this Tholian looks nice... I mean its textures those colours I haven't seen such combination before.                

I can't say anything about the mesh (at leat so far )

I voted for 100 meters but in my opinion she should have about 150 max. in total


"Long live the empire... Qapla`"  
« Last Edit: March 31, 2004, 02:51:34 pm by jimkirk »

Dizzy

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2004, 02:49:36 pm »
Quote:

50 meters tops I say atra.... You recall the exterior shot in The Tholian Web where the Thol ship passes in front of the Enterprise while the web was being constructed. The Tholian looked about 25-30 meters to me if not smaller...


Also I was thinking that the hull constuction should be like 50-50 metallic/crystal. Just a thought....  




nonono...

This is for SFC2, not for the model display case sitting atop your monitor...

50, even 100m is too small when you put them in the game. Remember, thoils will be a playable race, and if they are the size of PF's that have the capabilities of line ships, thats will just be silly.

Canon can bite me when we are talking about D2/GSA play. We all want thols that we can actually USE in the game, not sit there just looking at them and be smug cuz they are canon...

sandman69247

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2004, 03:01:56 pm »
I agree with Schtupp...50m. I might go as high as 75m, but that would be it. From what I am gathering (don't know much about the Tholians), they came here from another galaxy, which to my mind makes them at least moderately more advanced than we of this galaxy. That makes me think that they would be able to field more powerful ships in a smaller package, thereby being cost effective and enabling a higher production rate. In that sense, I see them as being a small, fast, highly manuaverable(sp?) craft, as seen in present day and past corvettes.

As for combining them, as I stated, I don't know much about the Tholians, so this is supposition on my part, but I don't see them as being concerned so much with sleekness as firepower. And why weld them...why not have them seperable? Say, a patrol consisting of say 5 or 6 corvettes comes across a large enemy vessel, so 3 join together to make one large ship to occupy the attention of the enemy vessel, while the other 2 proceed to begin spinning the web. Please, no harsh comments, I'm new to Tholians.    

ganymad

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2004, 03:38:00 pm »
i dont know why there is such a big discussion about the size of the ship.50m might be canon but thats true for the tos version.maybe the cristaline military ships are bigger. and 50m is damn small in game. so id vote for the 100-150 meters.
however, there is always the modelsize file in your models folder to influence ingame size. i dont see the problem here.

greatings,



ed

Dizzy

  • Guest
Re: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2004, 04:25:08 pm »
sandman, i ran a server with the thols called SG3. It had a playable thol race as tru to SFB specs as possible with what the EAW engine could do. I used Brez's models and I tell you, you may think it neat that thols have miniture systems and come in small packages, but for D2 playability, they need some sort of equality compared to other races and making them too small gives them too much of a tactical advantage in combat. This is how the Combat SFC2 engine works. It doesnt care what texture u have, what type of hull is welded together or what kinda of sulfur gas a thol passes after it eats it version of pizza, it comes down to how the thols work in combat and they will not work well if they are 50 or 100m long. If we want them as a playable race, then 150m+ is the size they need to be.

I respect your comments, sandman, and I too think races need more variability and differences that make them unique, but there is a good reason why ALL SFC2 models per class type are scaled the SAME. I happen to know why because I ran a server using them and I am a very experienced D2/GSA player.

So, what is atra doing here? Is he making a canon model we can have fun with zooming in and out rotating around and around in the taldren model viewer so we can say to ourselves how pleased we are at how it is so canon scaled like, or are we going to use them in the SFC2 comabt engine and blow enemies up?

Before you answer that question, perhaps you can answer why taldren scaled all 8 races class types in addition to cartels to the same size?