Topic: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed (Read 4379 times)

Atrahasis · « **on:** March 30, 2004, 10:01:16 am »

First, if you like what I did here, it's thanks to the helpful comments and criticisms that were made in the earlier thread by everybody.........I'd like to use this as an example of what can happen when people aren't afraid to give input and the modeler listens.

The basic Tholain ship design is very simple........so to make it spicey it's pretty much all dependent on the textures. I decided the textures just had to blow the viewer away using a very crystal-like appearance. This is the result of 2 mights of continuous experimentation using god knows how many different combinations.....I tried every color that was suggested, but decided in the end to emulate a white-crystal kind of look with blue and purple hues here and there. If you like what you see here, or have some more suggestions, it could lead to more Tholians by me.

I think what I have here tries to stay true to the original ship in the episode, with the exception that it emphasizes a crystal appearance, and not a major departure form the original hull color / lighting effect that they tried to achieve. They spotlighted the original silver-grey hull with purple and red lights, and so I decided I should try the same but add in a crystal appearance, and voila.

Anthony_Scott · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2004, 10:03:38 am »

Much better!!!!! I like this one even more than the one in the other thread! Good Work!

Semper Fi, Carry On

Captain Ron · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2004, 10:15:00 am »

Quote:

Much better!!!!! I like this one even more than the one in the other thread! Good Work!

Semper Fi, Carry On

Definitily,

This one I like very Much.

Rhaz · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2004, 10:36:54 am »

<Picking up jaw from the floor>

That is totally awesome! Any in-game shots yet?

Kaenyne · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2004, 10:44:04 am »

Now THAT'S a Tholian!

JayMoles · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2004, 10:52:04 am »

-CLUNK-clatter-clatter-

CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!

(sounds of chair falling aside as standing ovation/applause begins)

When you are speechless, it is because there are no words to express your thoughts and feelings. But least ways - I say GREAT JOB!

TOS -is- Star Trek!

red_green · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2004, 11:03:25 am »

Great job. I have yet to see a Tholian on TV

but they must be popular. Yes I live in a cave.

Wolfsglen · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2004, 11:38:54 am »

Beautiful!

ChrisJohnson · « **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2004, 11:55:04 am »

Oh my god... That's beautiful! Kinda bright, icy-like though, yet beautiful. I don't know what to reccomend! But... Are you doing more Tholian ships?

It's really well built and textured!

Grim Reaper · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2004, 12:18:04 pm »

Well i think you done it m8. Now they're gonna bug you till you've done a fleet

;)

BTW i agree with the comments above... Looks awsome

Atrahasis · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2004, 12:30:36 pm »

My plan is to get a hold of those Klingon Academy Tholian meshes and redo the textures for them into something as sophisticated as this. I probably won't need to re-mesh them, so it's the kind of "quickie" project that I'm into these days.

I'd love to do the entire KA Tholian fleet PLUS the SFB Tholians. It's fun doing them because I get to do so much experimenting.

Marauth · « **Reply #13 on:** March 30, 2004, 12:35:09 pm »

Sounds cool dude, by KA tholians do you mean the weird stick like ones that look like a jumble of crystals?

MarianoDT · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2004, 12:43:32 pm »

They are amazing !!!

Looking forward to d/l them...

Mariano

Lord Schtupp · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2004, 03:55:29 pm »

I'm awed

ModelsPlease · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2004, 04:04:43 pm »

Outstanding sir,I love this Tholian look. I am dying to see a Crystaline Tholian base now.........WOW

-MP

DeltaAssault · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2004, 06:11:43 pm »

Looks good, though it's really more of an Archeo-Tholian, not a Neo-Tholian. You can tell them apart because the Neos have a rear hull with nacelles.

http://no-spin.net/delta/Thol.jpg

Dizzy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2004, 07:34:34 pm »

Atra, I took P81's Andros and changed the base hull PA Panel texture to a shimmering blue, similar in color to your crystal thol hull, then did the illumination in blood red. The result was a ship that, depending upon what angle it is viewed from, shimmers from blue to red. It's a look of which I have never seen a ship have in the sfc engine. It made the PA Panels look alive and seething with raging energy...

You might have known about this illumination trick from your extensive modeling/texture work, but I thought I'd point it out just in case it might be applicable to your thol project...

And I do LOVE your thol design! May I use them when you are finished for the thol server mod?

I am not familair with the KA meshes, Do these include the rest of the Thol multi web spinner hull designs as well as the Neo Tholians? And what are the differences between that and the sfb thols? Will they have the same textures?

sandman69247 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2004, 08:07:41 pm »

Atra, this just proves how damn lucky we all are that you decided to re-join us as a modeller. OMG!! That's beautiful!!

Cmdr_Kell · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2004, 09:44:44 pm »

Those have to be the best looking Tholians I have ever seen!

Atrahasis · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2004, 11:40:43 pm »

If there are any critical comments say your peace now.....LOL I will meditate on this ship a bit more and then release it.

Dizzy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 31, 2004, 01:02:23 am »

It's too short, atra. The thols had access to one hull type they could build alone. They linked 2x together to make a CA and 3-4x to make a BC/DN. If left as short as it seems in the pic, I fear they run the risk of just looking snub and silly like. I'd ask you to make them longer please, do the limo stretch.

Other than that, Please add some contrasting color. Perhaps red or yellow or both in the front and/or back for the impulse and weapon port... something to give more color than what it has now. Something to brighten it up. I was watching a home improvement show and the term they used was 'warmth'... Yeah, so they need a bit of 'warmth'. Hehe. I was focred to watch it with my wife!

At the very least, leave us with seperate textures for the front and back in case we want to change that part of the ship color w/o it affecting other parts of the mesh. Some modelers use one part of a texture in many places on a ship, so i hope that can be avoided in this circumstance.

Hey, you wanted critical.

Sethan · « **Reply #24 on:** March 31, 2004, 01:23:07 am »

Very nice. Best Tholian I've seen.

Atrahasis · « **Reply #26 on:** March 31, 2004, 04:20:50 am »

Atra, I am sure you don?t mean to be ungracious.
The complements you are receiving do not deserve to be met in a disdainful manner.

Taldren_Admin

Dizzy · « **Reply #27 on:** March 31, 2004, 07:08:33 am »

I agree with seethan, it is the best yet.

As far as canon goes, blah... This is for dyna play and gsa. We are right around the corner from making tholians more than a cameo klingon/federation mix of race like on my SG3 server... We will have real working Thols. So for the sake of SFC2 dynaverse, I'd say make them whatever size they need to be on the dyna...

What size is that? Well, the smaller the model, the smaller the shield radius and the harder it becomes to hit with Tbombs, just one of many advantages of having a small shield radius...

Thats one advantage to keep in mind doing the model. I'd not vote for 100 or 200, they both feel wrong to me. Given the amount of volume inside the model itself, I'd say 150m would be perfect...

And yeah, atra, Im talking about tyhe archeo thols that welded/joined hulls together. The Neo-Thols came later around 2275+? and they had aft hulls much like the aft Klingon hulls.

Fury_of_a_Seraph · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2004, 07:16:42 am »

Easy
Take the Middleground - 150m

Atrahasis · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2004, 07:49:52 am »

Hmmm 150.....

Does anyone have access to the Klingon Academy Tholian models in 3ds or mod format? I can envision my doing quickies to all of them for the beginnings of a Tholian fleet.

Dizzy · « **Reply #30 on:** March 31, 2004, 07:52:20 am »

You were gunning for 150m the whole time, wernt u?

Fury_of_a_Seraph · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2004, 07:57:17 am »

Lol
oh come on - it makes sense

Marauth · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2004, 08:04:28 am »

Well SFB said that the Tarantula (3 hulls together) was the size of a DN but the firpower of a BC so they have to be fairly big to make 3 of them the size of a DN, I'd agree with 150m for the basic PC hull, on a side note is there not a DD made by gunnin-up the PC with disruptor cannons and extra phasers? I have a model by Brezzgone that looks like that but don't know if it's SFB canon.

Oh and dunno who mentioned the welding but theres also an Archeo-Tholian with 4 hulls called the Revenge which is a combination of the DN and CW, another Brezzgone model exists of it but the shadowing was all screwed up.

The SFB Tholians were just civilian refugees who never had access to the military vessels, the Neo-Tholians (who ironically left the home galaxy first) were the 312th fleet and so were composed of the proper Tholian military vessels which had the advanced webcasters that can be fired from only one vessel instead of requiring two.

Lord Schtupp · « **Reply #33 on:** March 31, 2004, 12:44:56 pm »

50 meters tops I say atra.... You recall the exterior shot in The Tholian Web where the Thol ship passes in front of the Enterprise while the web was being constructed. The Tholian looked about 25-30 meters to me if not smaller...

Also I was thinking that the hull constuction should be like 50-50 metallic/crystal. Just a thought....

ChrisJohnson · « **Reply #34 on:** March 31, 2004, 02:25:53 pm »

I disagree with Schtupp. I say between 100-200m. If we go strictly canonical, by TNG times we can be harassed around by Corellian Freighters that actually belong in a galaxy far far away. And we'd be seeing battleships that are very small... Can battleships and dreadnoughs and battlecrusiers be really small? Lets not forget how the B'rel-class Bird of Prey Kirk stole in Star Trek 6 shrunk by half in Star Trek IV.

sandman69247 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 31, 2004, 03:01:56 pm »

I agree with Schtupp...50m. I might go as high as 75m, but that would be it. From what I am gathering (don't know much about the Tholians), they came here from another galaxy, which to my mind makes them at least moderately more advanced than we of this galaxy. That makes me think that they would be able to field more powerful ships in a smaller package, thereby being cost effective and enabling a higher production rate. In that sense, I see them as being a small, fast, highly manuaverable(sp?) craft, as seen in present day and past corvettes.

As for combining them, as I stated, I don't know much about the Tholians, so this is supposition on my part, but I don't see them as being concerned so much with sleekness as firepower. And why weld them...why not have them seperable? Say, a patrol consisting of say 5 or 6 corvettes comes across a large enemy vessel, so 3 join together to make one large ship to occupy the attention of the enemy vessel, while the other 2 proceed to begin spinning the web. Please, no harsh comments, I'm new to Tholians.

ganymad · « **Reply #38 on:** March 31, 2004, 03:38:00 pm »

i dont know why there is such a big discussion about the size of the ship.50m might be canon but thats true for the tos version.maybe the cristaline military ships are bigger. and 50m is damn small in game. so id vote for the 100-150 meters.
however, there is always the modelsize file in your models folder to influence ingame size. i dont see the problem here.

greatings,

ed

Dizzy · « **Reply #39 on:** March 31, 2004, 04:25:08 pm »

sandman, i ran a server with the thols called SG3. It had a playable thol race as tru to SFB specs as possible with what the EAW engine could do. I used Brez's models and I tell you, you may think it neat that thols have miniture systems and come in small packages, but for D2 playability, they need some sort of equality compared to other races and making them too small gives them too much of a tactical advantage in combat. This is how the Combat SFC2 engine works. It doesnt care what texture u have, what type of hull is welded together or what kinda of sulfur gas a thol passes after it eats it version of pizza, it comes down to how the thols work in combat and they will not work well if they are 50 or 100m long. If we want them as a playable race, then 150m+ is the size they need to be.

I respect your comments, sandman, and I too think races need more variability and differences that make them unique, but there is a good reason why ALL SFC2 models per class type are scaled the SAME. I happen to know why because I ran a server using them and I am a very experienced D2/GSA player.

So, what is atra doing here? Is he making a canon model we can have fun with zooming in and out rotating around and around in the taldren model viewer so we can say to ourselves how pleased we are at how it is so canon scaled like, or are we going to use them in the SFC2 comabt engine and blow enemies up?

Before you answer that question, perhaps you can answer why taldren scaled all 8 races class types in addition to cartels to the same size?

red_green · « **Reply #41 on:** April 01, 2004, 12:50:56 am »

Regarding ths scaling topic. Isn't it moot because the game sizes it based on what slot you put it in? Unless your talking about moding the siz file.

Dizzy · « **Reply #42 on:** April 01, 2004, 02:08:49 am »

Thats not how the model.size works. Dropping a ship into an FF class or type doesnt size the model. Its a combination of model size and the model.size file.

Atrahasis · « **Reply #43 on:** April 01, 2004, 10:11:59 am »

Hmm there are lots of good arguments for making them around 150 m or so because Dizzy is right, if they are too small it not only influences game play but they don't look as good. 50 m is DAMNED small, you have to see it in game to know just how small it is. Remember how thin the PC is too. In fact, a fighter squadron would probably be larger than it in overall dimensions.

Somebody raised a good point about the PC seen in the TOS episode may have been tiny, but there could have been other versions much larger.....hey, if the Klinks can make 3 different sized BOP's I don't see why the Tholians can't.

Maybe I'll release a canon-sized PC but also a 150 m one, and the upper-class ships that follow will be based on the larger 150 m model. Sounds like a plan to me, unless anyone has a better idea? Thanks for the discussions by the way.

Also......who used the term "canon feeak"?

jayvt3 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 01, 2004, 11:44:29 am »

I think it is fine as it is.

If memory serves correctly, there was a book in the late 80's similar to Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestials, filled entirely with the then current races of the Star Trek universe.
The Tholians were shown to be slightly wider than humans but at least a foot shorter and shaped like a inverted 8 or 6 sided crystal with a head of multiple facets but similar structure. It went on to describe briefly that Thol ships are designed for the Tholian mindset of optimum efficency. There were no crew quarters since the Thols actually inserted themselves into "slots" like a child's hole and peg toy. Also it went into stating that Thols have no need for certain systems that we as Humans need. These were stellar cartography and human style navigation systems. This was due to the Thols shared the inbred stellar navigation ability of the Meadusans.
Here is one statement that the book made that I found to be quite understandable; Thol ships have no need for conventional shields due to the fact that the ship and its crew are quite literally a large crystal able to refract and redirect energy weapons that use light as a carrier. i.e. Phasers. This still makes them vunerable to most other weaponry with a keen weakness for missiles (hammer vs. crystal vase scenario) and disruptor fire, due to its effect on the molecules of an object.

P.s. it's shalt. Shall is used if you are telling a single person to do something directly using them in the first person. "You shall go and retrieve the Holy Handgrenade."
"Thou shalt be awed" is the correct phrasing since you are telling a "group" of individuals this is what they will be or do. "Thou shalt be in awe of this creation." or "Thou shalt smite the enemy."
Sorry my dad was a OT kinda guy.

---------------------------------------------------
...And I saw fear in the Klingon's eye.
Ma'Ab, Usurper Tier of Cappella IV

sandman69247 · « **Reply #48 on:** April 01, 2004, 08:20:30 pm »

Man, ya can't win for losin'...on some things you get blasted if you don't do it canon (I usually fall in between canon and non-canon with my models), then ya get "canon freaks" when you're just stating your opinion, which was asked for btw.

Oh well, ya can't please evrybody.

Anyway, for playability, I agree with you Dizzy, 50m is too small, more a fighter than an FF. At the same time, Atra has always made such great canon models that I figured that was what he was shooting for...my bad.

Whatever you decide, I'm positive it will be great and everyone will be clogging the net downloading.

Captain Pierce · « **Reply #50 on:** April 02, 2004, 07:01:01 am »

IIRC, the DS9 Tech Manual relates quantum torpedoes to zero-point energy, which would give you some interesting Tholian weapons possibilities...

ganymad · « **Reply #51 on:** April 02, 2004, 07:59:59 am »

please take a look at that

http://www.datadiwan.de/magazin/index_e.htm?/magazin/dz0113e_.htm

StClair · « **Reply #52 on:** April 04, 2004, 07:36:31 pm »

Beautiful textures. Not 100% true to the episode, but we get that with "TOS vs. TMP"/"SFB vs. SFC" on this board already.

If it's strictly a matter of different textures, may I suggest releasing each model with two sets (with one as default, per your preference)?

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #53 on:** April 05, 2004, 05:36:11 pm »

Is it soup yet?

TalonClaw · « **Reply #54 on:** April 14, 2004, 09:35:24 am »

Atrahasis, that is jaw dropping work! Very nice!

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Topic: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed (Read 4379 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Atrahasis

Anthony_Scott

Captain Ron

Rhaz

Kaenyne

JayMoles

Rod O'neal

red_green

Marauth

Wolfsglen

ChrisJohnson

Grim Reaper

Atrahasis

Marauth

MarianoDT

Lord Schtupp

ModelsPlease

ChrisJohnson

DeltaAssault

Dizzy

sandman69247

Cmdr_Kell

Atrahasis

Dizzy

Sethan

Atrahasis

Atrahasis

Dizzy

Fury_of_a_Seraph

Atrahasis

Dizzy

Fury_of_a_Seraph

Marauth

Lord Schtupp

ChrisJohnson

jimkirk

Dizzy

sandman69247

ganymad

Dizzy

Dizzy

red_green

Dizzy

Atrahasis

Dizzy

jayvt3

SSCF_LeRoy

Dizzy

sandman69247

Atrahasis

Captain Pierce

ganymad

StClair

Rod O'neal

TalonClaw

Topic: Gaze on my perfected Neo-Tholian!!! Thou shall be awed (Read 4379 times)