Topic: The Final Countdown (It's almost here I tell you!)

[Toasty0]

 

Yeah, T-10 days and countinmg  

[nexa1]

 I remember that movie!!!

hmmm.... would we actually have interfened with history and the pearl harbor attack?

  How many people's lives could be saved, including japanese.  

[E_Look]

How many would be lost because the U.S. would then not enter WWII, including Chinese, Filipino, British, French, Korean, Jewish, and Russian?

Nah, war is always awful, but how do you stop hellbent madmen or power hungry dictators with big, well equipped, technologically advanced, and motivated militaries?  Really, the only way would be to throw another such thing back at them, hopefully a little bigger, more equipped, advanced, motivated, and from a free nation.

Besides, I hate time travel stories... and as much as I like it, I sometimes am uncomfortable even with "City on the Edge of Forever"  (yeah, I know, sacrilege).  

[Blyre]

Gotta admit that with the Nimitz around, WWII would sure be a lot shorter

Wallace
 

[Sirgod]

Quote:
Gotta admit that with the Nimitz around, WWII would sure be a lot shorter

Wallace
   

Yep.

Sounds good though. I'll add that to my list.

stephen

[Sethan]

Quote:
How many would be lost because the U.S. would then not enter WWII, including Chinese, Filipino, British, French, Korean, Jewish, and Russian?

Nimitz could have fought - and ended - WWII by itself, whether the American government would have done so or not.  Consider that it has nuclear weapons available, along with a library that would tell its captain precisely where a certain mad austrian corporal (and the Japanese fleet) would be on any given day.

Quote:
Besides, I hate time travel stories... and as much as I like it, I sometimes am uncomfortable even with "City on the Edge of Forever"  (yeah, I know, sacrilege).  

Even precognition stories can be difficult if done poorly.  Consider in Minority Report...

SPOILER ALERT

...that the whole chain of events that caused the murder accusation against the protagonist was started by the murder accusation itself.

He had no way of finding the man he was supposed to murder, and found him by accident, solely because the precogs divined that he was supposed to murder the man.

If they had not done so, he would never have been in a position where it could have happened.

[E_Look]

See!  Doesn't that make your head spin??

Once you start a "causality loop", unless you keep your pinky pressed on that point, is it the chicken or the egg?

Anyhow what would Roosevelt (or Truman or Churchill) done with the NImitz if they spotted them floating around with "U.S. Navy" stamped all over it?  (Boy, what would the Russians have wanted to do!!)  Could he have claimed to be THEIR commander in chief, too and told them to go and end the war with their superior technological arms?  Could the captain (and crew) have refused saying that... they weren't born yet, or that they'd screw up history?  Would R (or T or C) have cared?

(Would the entire lot of them be arrested and imprisoned in padded rooms for observation?)

[762]

I hate that. 12 Monkeys did the same thing. They had a great concept going and killed it with a stoooooopid ending, thinking they were so crafty for thinking up an unrealistic time-travel paradox.  

[Blyre]

Quote:
See!  Doesn't that make your head spin??

Once you start a "causality loop", unless you keep your pinky pressed on that point, is it the chicken or the egg?

Anyhow what would Roosevelt (or Truman or Churchill) done with the NImitz if they spotted them floating around with "U.S. Navy" stamped all over it?  (Boy, what would the Russians have wanted to do!!)  Could he have claimed to be THEIR commander in chief, too and told them to go and end the war with their superior technological arms?  Could the captain (and crew) have refused saying that... they weren't born yet, or that they'd screw up history?  Would R (or T or C) have cared?

(Would the entire lot of them be arrested and imprisoned in padded rooms for observation?)  

I think that since the Nimitz IS a USN warship, the question of ownership would be irrelevent. The crew were trained to follow the orders of their Commander in Chief who in this case would have been FDR. Most likely what I think would happen is that the ship and all its equipment would be sampled and then extensively reverse-engineered in order to update 1940s technology to equivalent levels. Then selective parts of the reverse-engineered technology would be provided to our European Allies thereby stopping Hitler's advance and turning back Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. Since evidence of a sneak attack was found and foiled, FDR would use the information to quickly declare war on Japan and using the new technology, completely obliterate Japan in short order.

As they say in Enigma: Rising Tide: It is a different world.

Wallace
 

[E_Look]

If I commanded that big boat, I would have ran and hid from ANY powers that be'd.  I'd REALLY worry about altering the "intended" future... including hiding from Roosevelt, until I got my guys to find a way back "home".  Remember, the crew must be loyal to ME as ship's captain and that FDR WASN'T the president the day before they popped back into time!  For the same reason, I'd wouldn't take orders from some "future" leader, either.  I can see why Archer has a problem with Daniels (who had already made one colossal mistake).  Besides, is Daniels a chief or an injun??  (Or the only Federation citizen left???)

[Blyre]

Good points there. Yes, the crew would follow the Captain due to their training, but I think in that scenario they would be feel as scared as if they were on the other side of the Galaxy. The hiding part would probably be a top concern, but their stores and ammunition would only last for so long and as soon as they put in somewhere they would end up being discovered.

As for Daniels of Enterprise, I've come to be a little suspicious of his "mission." It really wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to be the really bad guy among the Temporal Baddies.

I like Time Travel stories, but so many and a little less of the current lame crop.

I remember watching Final Countdown onboard ship while underway. You haven't heard criticism  until you've been around a bunch of sailor underway and there's no T&A in the movie....hehe

Wallace
 

[Toasty0]

 

Yeah, T-10 days and countinmg  

[nexa1]

 I remember that movie!!!

hmmm.... would we actually have interfened with history and the pearl harbor attack?

  How many people's lives could be saved, including japanese.  

[E_Look]

How many would be lost because the U.S. would then not enter WWII, including Chinese, Filipino, British, French, Korean, Jewish, and Russian?

Nah, war is always awful, but how do you stop hellbent madmen or power hungry dictators with big, well equipped, technologically advanced, and motivated militaries?  Really, the only way would be to throw another such thing back at them, hopefully a little bigger, more equipped, advanced, motivated, and from a free nation.

Besides, I hate time travel stories... and as much as I like it, I sometimes am uncomfortable even with "City on the Edge of Forever"  (yeah, I know, sacrilege).  

[Blyre]

Gotta admit that with the Nimitz around, WWII would sure be a lot shorter

Wallace
 

[Sirgod]

Quote:
Gotta admit that with the Nimitz around, WWII would sure be a lot shorter

Wallace
   

Yep.

Sounds good though. I'll add that to my list.

stephen

[Sethan]

Quote:
How many would be lost because the U.S. would then not enter WWII, including Chinese, Filipino, British, French, Korean, Jewish, and Russian?

Nimitz could have fought - and ended - WWII by itself, whether the American government would have done so or not.  Consider that it has nuclear weapons available, along with a library that would tell its captain precisely where a certain mad austrian corporal (and the Japanese fleet) would be on any given day.

Quote:
Besides, I hate time travel stories... and as much as I like it, I sometimes am uncomfortable even with "City on the Edge of Forever"  (yeah, I know, sacrilege).  

Even precognition stories can be difficult if done poorly.  Consider in Minority Report...

SPOILER ALERT

...that the whole chain of events that caused the murder accusation against the protagonist was started by the murder accusation itself.

He had no way of finding the man he was supposed to murder, and found him by accident, solely because the precogs divined that he was supposed to murder the man.

If they had not done so, he would never have been in a position where it could have happened.

[E_Look]

See!  Doesn't that make your head spin??

Once you start a "causality loop", unless you keep your pinky pressed on that point, is it the chicken or the egg?

Anyhow what would Roosevelt (or Truman or Churchill) done with the NImitz if they spotted them floating around with "U.S. Navy" stamped all over it?  (Boy, what would the Russians have wanted to do!!)  Could he have claimed to be THEIR commander in chief, too and told them to go and end the war with their superior technological arms?  Could the captain (and crew) have refused saying that... they weren't born yet, or that they'd screw up history?  Would R (or T or C) have cared?

(Would the entire lot of them be arrested and imprisoned in padded rooms for observation?)

[762]

I hate that. 12 Monkeys did the same thing. They had a great concept going and killed it with a stoooooopid ending, thinking they were so crafty for thinking up an unrealistic time-travel paradox.  

[Blyre]

Quote:
See!  Doesn't that make your head spin??

Once you start a "causality loop", unless you keep your pinky pressed on that point, is it the chicken or the egg?

Anyhow what would Roosevelt (or Truman or Churchill) done with the NImitz if they spotted them floating around with "U.S. Navy" stamped all over it?  (Boy, what would the Russians have wanted to do!!)  Could he have claimed to be THEIR commander in chief, too and told them to go and end the war with their superior technological arms?  Could the captain (and crew) have refused saying that... they weren't born yet, or that they'd screw up history?  Would R (or T or C) have cared?

(Would the entire lot of them be arrested and imprisoned in padded rooms for observation?)  

I think that since the Nimitz IS a USN warship, the question of ownership would be irrelevent. The crew were trained to follow the orders of their Commander in Chief who in this case would have been FDR. Most likely what I think would happen is that the ship and all its equipment would be sampled and then extensively reverse-engineered in order to update 1940s technology to equivalent levels. Then selective parts of the reverse-engineered technology would be provided to our European Allies thereby stopping Hitler's advance and turning back Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. Since evidence of a sneak attack was found and foiled, FDR would use the information to quickly declare war on Japan and using the new technology, completely obliterate Japan in short order.

As they say in Enigma: Rising Tide: It is a different world.

Wallace