Topic: So whats the hold up with SFC G.A.W (Read 17957 times)

The_Infiltrator · « **Reply #80 on:** April 03, 2004, 11:04:02 pm »

Problem is that it's Paramount's de facto position to attempt to drive SFB/ADB into the ground. The only reason that they can operate now as is is that they have a licence and Paramount can't do anything to get around that. It's ironic that for a long time there was nothing past TOS but the universe that ADB created, and now that it's a post TNG era for Paramount, they look at ADB something like a leper colony.

Age · « **Reply #81 on:** April 04, 2004, 01:40:13 am »

What does ADB stand for .I agree they need they time to get it right and who has the license?

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #82 on:** April 04, 2004, 11:37:04 am »

Amarillo Design Bureau, they hold the rights to Starfleet Battles, which Viacom has been trying to recover since the early 80's. However Viacom counters it buy holding the rights to the images of StarTrek, so Starfleet Command was only possible because they "cooperated" to make it.

FFZ · « **Reply #83 on:** April 04, 2004, 12:03:20 pm »

It really is a shame that ADB is so hated by the powers-that-be, SFB actually helped keep Trek alive for a time.

Back after ST The Motion Picture flopped, Trek looked as dead as disco, the only thing keeping it alive was SFB and legions of dedicated fans at cons, which were still strong even as the 1980s began.

Paramount had to be dragged kicking and screaming to make Wraith of Khan, and they were adament that it wasn't going over budget, if it did, they would fold the production and scrap it (this was because of the masive budget overflow of TMP.)

Khan was a big hit, and instead of rewarding ADB, Paramount gave the contract to Fasa Games.

Now, we seem to have come full circle, we are back to ADB still putting out TOS type material.

Unbeliavable.

Age · « **Reply #84 on:** April 04, 2004, 02:58:30 pm »

What is Fasa games please explian?I guess the powers that be don't see the logic in all of this ? I guess Viacom and Paramount Excutives don't watch the shows or movies they just waiting for the big bucks to come in they don't care about quality just the money they can expliot off of Trek.They could do this with PC games aswell just tell the publishers
how much they want which they already do so why not expliot it some more.I would give this Company the license to develope and puplish the games them selves that way they can do a better jop on it and just cut the middle person.Viacom and Paramont would love to expliot Trek some more and this is a good way to do it just keep milking it for all its worth we keep buying it why not we are big fools after all.

FFZ · « **Reply #85 on:** April 04, 2004, 03:16:52 pm »

Fasa games produced games of tactical Starship combat, similar to SFB, but using the movie Enterprise and ships from this era, instaed of ToS era ships.

Fasa came out with minature ships for this, and even did role playing adventure games of Trek, but all of these games, although pretty good, where nowhere near as detailed and interesting as SFB.

The_Infiltrator · « **Reply #86 on:** April 04, 2004, 03:24:56 pm »

FASA while it was around was a pretty good wargame company, though they did things differently than ADB. Personally I think ADB's product in this area is superior, but that may be personal preference. No one can deny though that Battletech was a great game - and this is another reason for confusion. At no time could it ever be said that FASA thought of their star trek game as the "flagship" game of their company. That has, and always was, Battletech. Why would Paramount therefore want to give them rights when they knew that it would never be their main focus? Personally, I've never understood the facination in trek quarters for Paramount. They're just a TV/movie studio. And sometimes not a very good one at that.

FFZ · « **Reply #87 on:** April 04, 2004, 03:30:14 pm »

It's somewhat ironic Paramount owns Trek because Lucelle Ball broke up with Desi Arnez.

Age · « **Reply #88 on:** April 04, 2004, 04:06:39 pm »

They own it and have been milking it for what it's worth and there is nothing Majal Roddenberry can't do but Paramount does other things projscts has well but Trek is thier Flag Ship of any it is to bad they are not reading all this then they would waken up.

Davey E · « **Reply #89 on:** March 20, 2004, 10:08:05 am »

Hey all
Just thought i,d ask all you guys a few questions (if ya know the answers lol)

What is the problem with producing SFC G.A.W with the Tholians, Seltorians etc thrown in,
Yes a whole new game using the best of SFC2/OP/3

and

How much would it cost ?

I,m just curious - seems to me that there is a stack of peeps who would invest in this - I WOULD

So in general what are the problems in making G.A.W from 1-99 ???

Thanx all in advance for answers

Pestalence · « **Reply #90 on:** March 20, 2004, 10:56:55 am »

Well to develope and produce a game is roughly about 3 to 5 Million US give or take a couple hundred thousand, not counting the price for the licenses.. as far as the Tholians and other races go.. it is a matter of Rights and Liscencing and whether or not the race is available...

then there is a time factor for for production: the publishing costs, packaging, advertising, burining costs.. etc...

this is of course not counting the personal time involved for developing a new game engine, conceptual incorporation of ideas into the enviroment.. etc.. it would be a lot of work... but the problem is not just that cost (3 to 5 million plus production).. but also the post release cost of support...

I think the project for GAW could be done for say around 9 or 10 million or so (Liscense and development and production cost) give or take post release support cost... that is if Taldren is willing to undertake the project ....

People just don't realize how much it costs to develope a game....

now imagine investing that much into a game... how many copies would you have to sell in order to break even??? let's say at $70 a copy.... then people demand support..... now consider the wages of those working, the overtime, testing, debugging time, etc... it is a lot of manpower hours...

but if you are willing to help in a good portion of $10 million for the development of GAW.. then I think it could be acomplished...

let's see there are 3200 members on this forum...

so 10 million devided by 3200 people...

everyone would have to contribute $3275 up front so the project could be worked on for the next year and a half....

I'm game, but I am sure that a vast majority of members on this board would either say no, or say that they couldn't afford that ammount.. as such... the cost would increase to those who are willing to pay for it.

this is just a simple look at the numbers on cost....

FFZ · « **Reply #91 on:** March 20, 2004, 11:17:21 am »

Not to be obtuse, but three to five million to produce a game?

I think that number is just a tad high, no?

Why so expensive?

Pestalence · « **Reply #92 on:** March 20, 2004, 11:41:32 am »

3 to 5 million.. no not too high...

consider Coprorate pricing on software..

hardware costs for the newest equipment to develope a game for the cutting edge tech to be able to support

the man hours of say 50 people hacking away at coding at 8 hours a day 5 days a week at $15 to $20 an hour lets go with $15 and hour x 40 hours a week.. that is $600 a week per person times 50 people that is $30000 a week.. times 52 weeks for 1 year of development.. that comes to $1,560,000 per year.. then the over time at 1.5 times hourly rate per hour overtime.... say an average of 5 hours overtime for half the employees per week..

so that is 1.5 * $15 = $22.5 per hour * 5 Hours = $112.5 per person per week * 25 employees (half the workforce) = $2812.5 per week * 52 weeks per year = $146,250 in overtime pay...

so now just in wages based off $15 an hour you are spending $1,706,250 for 1 year in development.. this is not counting those with higher paying positions.. this is just entry level coders...

Now add in the taxes for the Corp.. Insurance, govn't regulated requirements like workman's comp pay in.. etc...

then the electricity and water bills.. cost of office supplies.... then add in the employees who are making $20 or even $30 an hour....

Wow... that number just jumped...

so yes it does cost a lot to develope a game.. and the numbers are not exaggerated.. as my initial posting stated.. I said a year and a half.. however my numbers here.. though not complete.. only represent 1 year for entry level position...

and this in no way represents the advertising costs, printing costs of the cover, printing costs and binding costs for manuals, burning times for CD's, Distribution costs, stocking costs.. building rent.. etc..

not does it include permissions or licensing costs for the material to be used... and usually in Trek.. Licenses usually run in the million dollar mark or higher.. why do you think Activision sued Paramount????

the costs add up fast... I can keep adding things on, but I think I have shown the point..

Teeth_03 · « **Reply #93 on:** March 20, 2004, 01:30:03 pm »

If money wasn't an issue,would we still be able to get the licenses? The next game,if there was one,would prolly have TNG in it,and if i'm correct,the license for that is screwed up cuz of our favorite company,Activision.

Davey E · « **Reply #94 on:** March 20, 2004, 02:04:31 pm »

Quote:

3 to 5 million.. no not too high...

consider Coprorate pricing on software..

hardware costs for the newest equipment to develope a game for the cutting edge tech to be able to support

the man hours of say 50 people hacking away at coding at 8 hours a day 5 days a week at $15 to $20 an hour lets go with $15 and hour x 40 hours a week.. that is $600 a week per person times 50 people that is $30000 a week.. times 52 weeks for 1 year of development.. that comes to $1,560,000 per year.. then the over time at 1.5 times hourly rate per hour overtime.... say an average of 5 hours overtime for half the employees per week..

so that is 1.5 * $15 = $22.5 per hour * 5 Hours = $112.5 per person per week * 25 employees (half the workforce) = $2812.5 per week * 52 weeks per year = $146,250 in overtime pay...

so now just in wages based off $15 an hour you are spending $1,706,250 for 1 year in development.. this is not counting those with higher paying positions.. this is just entry level coders...

Now add in the taxes for the Corp.. Insurance, govn't regulated requirements like workman's comp pay in.. etc...

then the electricity and water bills.. cost of office supplies.... then add in the employees who are making $20 or even $30 an hour....

Wow... that number just jumped...

so yes it does cost a lot to develope a game.. and the numbers are not exaggerated.. as my initial posting stated.. I said a year and a half.. however my numbers here.. though not complete.. only represent 1 year for entry level position...

and this in no way represents the advertising costs, printing costs of the cover, printing costs and binding costs for manuals, burning times for CD's, Distribution costs, stocking costs.. building rent.. etc..

not does it include permissions or licensing costs for the material to be used... and usually in Trek.. Licenses usually run in the million dollar mark or higher.. why do you think Activision sued Paramount????

the costs add up fast... I can keep adding things on, but I think I have shown the point.

Great reply Pestalence

Thanx

Now lets say some mystery benefactor who loves SFB comes along, He,s got say $12-15 mil spare

and he,s prepared to "Go For It"

Now the problems with going ahead IMHO just reduced 90%

What else could hold G.A.W up ?

Pestalence · « **Reply #95 on:** March 20, 2004, 02:09:56 pm »

Actually all liscenses are up in the air.. but to my last understanding.. because of the litigation between Activision (who previouly leased all Trek gaming liscenses) and Paramount/Viacom (who Owns the Trek license) the license is on hold until either Activisions original contract runs out, or when the court makes a decision in the case.. Activision has publically announced giving up the license due to breach of contract.. but that claim goes both ways.. so the license for the time being is frozen... Activision had bought all the licenses for 5 years.. this is now going into year 3 of them holding the license contract (supposedly now voided).. so if the litigation continues.. then the license will remain frozen for the rest of this fiscal year plus 2 more years.

Hopefully the courts will free the license up for others to use soon.. if they haven't already...

FFZ · « **Reply #97 on:** March 20, 2004, 03:19:16 pm »

That is quite interesting, all those costs. It is no wonder so many game companies fold.

Pestalence · « **Reply #98 on:** March 20, 2004, 03:54:33 pm »

Exactly.. considering that if you are just being the developer and you have a separate publisher footing the bill for developement and production and distribution.. just to cover the developing costs at say 5 million.. the game would have to sell 71,429 copies at $70 a piece....

double that to cover the publication oand other costs involved.. so 114,258 copies at $70 a copy... to break even.. roughly... and only if the ammount went streight to the publisher.. but there is the 20% markup in the stores to make the title $70.. so let's look at how many copies actually have to sell to break even

$70 * 80% = $56 actual ammount back to publisher

so $10 Mil / $56 = 178,572 copies before a profit could be made.. the majority of profits after breaking even goes to the Publisher then royalties to the developer and the license holders out of that...

it is from the royalties which the developer pays for the patches to be made.. as such... most companies try to shoot for 1 or even 2 patches... Taldren has had a long history of 3 to 7 patches for a game when permitted to release the patches...

so in essence Taldren has taken a loss from SFC game support, but they are still here fighting for the gamers...

things look differently when you consider the cost involved don't it...

Pestalence · « **Reply #99 on:** March 20, 2004, 04:01:01 pm »

BTW.. these are just my numbers in general.. I have no Idea what Taldren's actual budget is.. but my numbers cover several different gaming developers and not any 1 company.. I just use Taldren's name as an example since we are on their boards and is the easiest for me to reference to... although i couldn't imagine Taldren's budget being much different than oulined above... the majority of the cost is the manhours spent.. same goes for any profession....

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Topic: So whats the hold up with SFC G.A.W (Read 17957 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

The_Infiltrator

Age

Lieutenant_Q

FFZ

Age

FFZ

The_Infiltrator

FFZ

Age

Davey E

Pestalence

FFZ

Pestalence

Teeth_03

Davey E

Pestalence

Pestalence

FFZ

Pestalence

Pestalence

Topic: So whats the hold up with SFC G.A.W (Read 17957 times)