Topic: So whats the hold up with SFC G.A.W

[Merlinfmct87]

btw, it's not suprising how many games are out, consitering that most are identicle to each other--no risk.  

[Age]

   This is about the devlopment of the Galaxies at War the next series in the SFC. series that was supposed to be but didn't and then the Lawsuit agianst Paramount that Activision launched because they lost money on no.3 and the whole Trek franchis is going down hill the ratings for Enterpise is down.The movie Nemesis did poorly at the box office that is why the trek franchise is doing poorly and that is the reason for the lawsuit.

  The reason for the devlopment is that Activision holds the licence to puplish or they might not have now.but it all has to do with licenceing and who going to pubish it once it is ready.This is more just making a game it involes a lawsuit and licenseing which Taldren does not have and all the costs associated with it.This is a complicated issue with all the parties involed primarily Activision and Paramount and if there is a big enough market for another trek game but one will be out evetually.

  I would read most of the posting in here to find out more as I said before this is a complicated issue just this thread.I hope I answered your question as you can see this is bigger than making a new game.I would have to quote everyones posting in this thread to really spell it out.That would take me most of a day do that.I wouldn't say anything bad about yourself and the games you mentioned were put out by different devlopers and possiply different publishers i don't know to much about those games to draw a comparison.We would all Kiss Taldrens feet if they came out with more StarFleet Cammand games as we really enjoy all of them and would like to see more they are our favourites.I hope this answers it.You might want to think of doing some modding you seem to know what you are talking about.

 Let me know if I can help you out some more non technical I am not a computer guru ask some of the others for that.    

[Merlinfmct87]

So the real problem is liscensing, and finding a publisher.

Any hope if this being fixed?  

[Age]

   Yes that is the real problem eventually when everything is settled but it will.  

[Maxillius]

Quote:
OK, 1st, i want to say I'm a complete idiot when it comes to development. I've dabbled in C++ in my spare time, but I have  no clue as to how you develop a game, my statements are pure guesswork. OK, I'm ready to look like an idiot. Here we go.


Why whould it take a year? I mean, you've got good source code on file. all you really need to do is take OP, add the SFC3 reverse and warp code, add some new race slots, program  new weapons and make some models.

I can see how this is a big undertaking, this is not nearly as small as I make it out to be, but I don't see the need for a brand-new engine, just maybe an expansion(ala EAW or Tales of the Sword Coast if you know Baldur's Gate) to the existing OP engine.

What I'm trying to say is this: New games take at least a year. Some take MUCH MUCH longer(see Morrowind) but Expansions take only about six months, because 3/4ths of the work is already done, all you need to do is throw in some new stuff and you've got a new product. Maybe they could even do a stand-alone expansion.

This is by NO MEANS a critisisim of Taldren, I'm ready to kiss their feet for patching OP YEARS after it's relese. It's just that I know iI'm not smarter than everybody who's posted here, I know i'm missing something, I'd just like to know what.

Thank you for your understanding,

Merlin  

You're talking about making a true expansion pack to a game whose engine has parts that are over 5 years old.  It would take far longer to make something that looked decent and would work with the patches and such.  In my opinion, it would be less work to build a brand-new game engine and work in everything we love about OP and SFC3, while adding things like Andros, Species 8472, the Omega Sector, and the Enterprise-era.  We could make it a unification of SFB and Trek, while retaining SFB's "realism" and Trek's spectacularness (I just made up a word, so sue me ).

That being said, I think it would take at least 2 years to work out how to work 3-D navigation and continuous space (with sector borders to aid in tactical planning) into Trek ships.  Also, each and every firing arc for each an every ship would need to adjusted for 3 dimensions.  For example, any of the Federations enemies would be smart to stay on the Fed's edge as above or below every phaser on that half of the ship can nail them.  Needless to say, this will add all sorts of racial flavor to the game.

As for models, every phaser and other weapon you see on the model should have a weapon hard point attatched to it.  Also, to keep SFC3's shipyard option mount feature and add some realism to it, if you add a weapon, you also add the graphic to the ship.  For instance, if you wanted to add a Plasma R launcher on your F-BCF, you'd see a HUGE MESS of a weapon on the bottom of your ship where the F launcher was, indicating that it wouldn't work.


I've got lots of ideas, PM me for more, Taldren

[Merlinfmct87]

Quote:

Quote:
OK, 1st, i want to say I'm a complete idiot when it comes to development. I've dabbled in C++ in my spare time, but I have  no clue as to how you develop a game, my statements are pure guesswork. OK, I'm ready to look like an idiot. Here we go.


Why whould it take a year? I mean, you've got good source code on file. all you really need to do is take OP, add the SFC3 reverse and warp code, add some new race slots, program  new weapons and make some models.

I can see how this is a big undertaking, this is not nearly as small as I make it out to be, but I don't see the need for a brand-new engine, just maybe an expansion(ala EAW or Tales of the Sword Coast if you know Baldur's Gate) to the existing OP engine.

What I'm trying to say is this: New games take at least a year. Some take MUCH MUCH longer(see Morrowind) but Expansions take only about six months, because 3/4ths of the work is already done, all you need to do is throw in some new stuff and you've got a new product. Maybe they could even do a stand-alone expansion.

This is by NO MEANS a critisisim of Taldren, I'm ready to kiss their feet for patching OP YEARS after it's relese. It's just that I know iI'm not smarter than everybody who's posted here, I know i'm missing something, I'd just like to know what.

Thank you for your understanding,

Merlin  

You're talking about making a true expansion pack to a game whose engine has parts that are over 5 years old.  It would take far longer to make something that looked decent and would work with the patches and such.  In my opinion, it would be less work to build a brand-new game engine and work in everything we love about OP and SFC3, while adding things like Andros, Species 8472, the Omega Sector, and the Enterprise-era.  We could make it a unification of SFB and Trek, while retaining SFB's "realism" and Trek's spectacularness (I just made up a word, so sue me ).

That being said, I think it would take at least 2 years to work out how to work 3-D navigation and continuous space (with sector borders to aid in tactical planning) into Trek ships.  Also, each and every firing arc for each an every ship would need to adjusted for 3 dimensions.  For example, any of the Federations enemies would be smart to stay on the Fed's edge as above or below every phaser on that half of the ship can nail them.  Needless to say, this will add all sorts of racial flavor to the game.

As for models, every phaser and other weapon you see on the model should have a weapon hard point attatched to it.  Also, to keep SFC3's shipyard option mount feature and add some realism to it, if you add a weapon, you also add the graphic to the ship.  For instance, if you wanted to add a Plasma R launcher on your F-BCF, you'd see a HUGE MESS of a weapon on the bottom of your ship where the F launcher was, indicating that it wouldn't work.


I've got lots of ideas, PM me for more, Taldren  

OK, 1st, I don't mind parts being 5 years old. Parts of Windows(any version) are over 30, yet people still use it, and Im sure the same can be said for just about every other OS on the market. And, unless I'm missing something, OP already looks better than decent, and I don't even have a good Video Card.

As for 3-D Navigation, see here:

 Unoffical 3D Rules for SFB

Now, I realize the post is rather thin, but something IS on the books, so it wouldn't take that long

Also, about your weapon hardpoint idea, that would take a LOT of work to do. Do you put a basic hull and let the game modify that base model every time? That would take a LOT of computer power to work. Maybe you'd like to make a modle for every permutation? LOTS AND LOTS of hard drive space. A better Idea(IMHO) is to make a special model for each Heavy Weapon available, and let the phasers be default.

Thanks for your post, I look forward to your reply,

Merlin  

[Maxillius]

Quote:


OK, 1st, I don't mind parts being 5 years old. Parts of Windows(any version) are over 30, yet people still use it, and Im sure the same can be said for just about every other OS on the market. And, unless I'm missing something, OP already looks better than decent, and I don't even have a good Video Card.

As for 3-D Navigation, see here:

 Unoffical 3D Rules for SFB

Now, I realize the post is rather thin, but something IS on the books, so it wouldn't take that long

Also, about your weapon hardpoint idea, that would take a LOT of work to do. Do you put a basic hull and let the game modify that base model every time? That would take a LOT of computer power to work. Maybe you'd like to make a modle for every permutation? LOTS AND LOTS of hard drive space. A better Idea(IMHO) is to make a special model for each Heavy Weapon available, and let the phasers be default.

Thanks for your post, I look forward to your reply,

Merlin  

The intent behind making a point about the age of the engine wasn't just from an asthetic stand-point, it's considering the capabilities of current computers.  SFC1's minimum spec is 200MHz w/ 32MB RAM i.e. pitifully small nowadays.  EAW and OP's minimum spec are 350MHz/64MB, reflecting the base capability of the time and Interplay underspecced the original.  If GAW were coming out now I wouldn't conider it if it ran slower than 1GHz or under 128MB RAM.  I *want* a processor intensive game, but I also want that game full of substance, not just eye candy.

So, yes, your first guess was it.  Make base hulls and separate "modlets" for weapon hardpoints.  I don't want to stop people from having all-phaser loadouts, so every hardpoint is a universal hardpoint.  There will still be mass limits for all systems, but there shouldn't be a need to split up heavy hardpoints and phaser hardpoints with this system.  Oh, and leftover mass from system component cannot be tranferred to other systems.  Take the Fed Connie.  Give her 50000 weapons mass and 35000 engine mass.  Phaser 1/IX (I think they're the same, not sure) uses 500 and photon launchers use 7000.  So, a connie with 4 photon launchers and 8 phaser 1/IX comes up to 32000, leaving 12000 to play with.  That leftover mass is only usable for weapons and cannot be transferred to engines.  And each type of engine will still only produce a certain amount of power, so your choices will depend heavily on what era your ship is, yet be VERY flexible.

About the Modlets:  Make separet modlets for each heavy weapon, but 2 or 3 types for phasers for the different eras: Enterprise, SFB/Movie era, and Lost Era/TNG and beyond.  Plus, this system would allow addition of special modlets for new weapons.

[Taldren_Admin]

Quote:
So the real problem is liscensing, and finding a publisher.

Any hope if this being fixed?  

Indeed there is always hope, especially when there is still a fan base to support a new game.
 
Ann

[Merlinfmct87]

Quote:


The intent behind making a point about the age of the engine wasn't just from an asthetic stand-point, it's considering the capabilities of current computers.  SFC1's minimum spec is 200MHz w/ 32MB RAM i.e. pitifully small nowadays.  EAW and OP's minimum spec are 350MHz/64MB, reflecting the base capability of the time and Interplay underspecced the original.  If GAW were coming out now I wouldn't conider it if it ran slower than 1GHz or under 128MB RAM.  I *want* a processor intensive game, but I also want that game full of substance, not just eye candy.

So, yes, your first guess was it.  Make base hulls and separate "modlets" for weapon hardpoints.  I don't want to stop people from having all-phaser loadouts, so every hardpoint is a universal hardpoint.  There will still be mass limits for all systems, but there shouldn't be a need to split up heavy hardpoints and phaser hardpoints with this system.  Oh, and leftover mass from system component cannot be tranferred to other systems.  Take the Fed Connie.  Give her 50000 weapons mass and 35000 engine mass.  Phaser 1/IX (I think they're the same, not sure) uses 500 and photon launchers use 7000.  So, a connie with 4 photon launchers and 8 phaser 1/IX comes up to 32000, leaving 12000 to play with.  That leftover mass is only usable for weapons and cannot be transferred to engines.  And each type of engine will still only produce a certain amount of power, so your choices will depend heavily on what era your ship is, yet be VERY flexible.

About the Modlets:  Make separet modlets for each heavy weapon, but 2 or 3 types for phasers for the different eras: Enterprise, SFB/Movie era, and Lost Era/TNG and beyond.  Plus, this system would allow addition of special modlets for new weapons.  

Let me tell you a story. I avidly play Arena and Daggerfall. If you've never heard of them, theres a good reason, they are about 12 years old. Arena came out in 93, and Daggerfall came out in 95. I have to use a special computer I bought at a yard sale for $5 to run them. I loved every second of it. When I head that Morrowind was coming out, I was esctatic. That is, untill I saw the system requirements for it. I had no hope of running it, and the upgrade required for it would take a LOT of work because my paretns can't pick a computer.(it has an integrated i810 chipset and no AGP slot). Now I'm a loyal fan of the series, and I can't see the next segment in the story because someone decided they had to compete with Quake and other Graphics Games.

This sorta ticked me off.

Now for the ideal:

I also played Half-Life. Great game, It was a thinker's FPS. I hear the news that Half Life 2 is coming out, and that I'll probably be able to play it on my comp(this is from a schetchy system requirement, but it's still possible).

Can't we do that with SFC GAW? Make it so that the people with uber systems get the eye candy and the people who loved the games from the beginning can still play it?  

[Merlinfmct87]

Quote:

Quote:
So the real problem is liscensing, and finding a publisher.

Any hope if this being fixed?  

Indeed there is always hope, especially when there is still a fan base to support a new game.
 
Ann  

Well...

I'm not going anywhere

TC...


Merlin  

[Maxillius]

I'm sorry if this offends you, I really am, but it's time for a new PC when they start making games that need more grunt that your system can offer.  On the bright side, there are new systems that are cheaper than the cost to upgrade your current system.  Plus, you could build one yourself for even less!  That being said, I realize that not everyone has the cash onhand to go out and get the uber PC they'd like to have.  Personally, I should've bought a car instead of my computers but I live at home and my parents let me use their cars so there's really no pressure.

Back to the topic, I realize that coding that nightmare would take a good chunk of forever, but by that time the majority of gamers will have systems that spec over 1 GHz.  I'm willing to wait for a truly intensive and all-inclusive Trek game.


If it's any consolation to you, my girlfriend's machine needs a new video card because although the rest of it will run Morrowind just fine (800MHz/256MB), the video card is only capable of 24bit color, and Morrowind needs 32

[Maxillius]

Quote:

Quote:
So the real problem is liscensing, and finding a publisher.

Any hope if this being fixed?  

Indeed there is always hope, especially when there is still a fan base to support a new game.
 
Ann  

Ann, don't toy with us!  Some members of the community have a bad heart and can't take that kind of... ahhh...  "excitement"



Not me, of course!

[FFZ]

  I believe the support is there.

I for one, would love to see the Tholians and Andromedans finally arrive, as well as more stuff from the TNG era Trek.

Maybe an all-new game isn't the way to go, maybe an add-on, expansion, is the way. Not like OP, which was self-contained, but a game that required that you already have OP or SFC 3 to play, using the existing engine and simply adding some new ships and weapons/defenses for the new races, as well as a series of new missions and campaigns.

For example, I would love a general war campaign, seperate from the ISC war, that used and high-lighted the earlier ships.

There is plenty of room to do things and not let costs spiral out of control.  

[Age]

Quote:

Quote:


OK, 1st, I don't mind parts being 5 years old. Parts of Windows(any version) are over 30, yet people still use it, and Im sure the same can be said for just about every other OS on the market. And, unless I'm missing something, OP already looks better than decent, and I don't even have a good Video Card.

As for 3-D Navigation, see here:

 Unoffical 3D Rules for SFB

Now, I realize the post is rather thin, but something IS on the books, so it wouldn't take that long

Also, about your weapon hardpoint idea, that would take a LOT of work to do. Do you put a basic hull and let the game modify that base model every time? That would take a LOT of computer power to work. Maybe you'd like to make a modle for every permutation? LOTS AND LOTS of hard drive space. A better Idea(IMHO) is to make a special model for each Heavy Weapon available, and let the phasers be default.

Thanks for your post, I look forward to your reply,

Merlin  

as I would say long as it is in the same lines as STC.3et in the 23C.I would like to refit those engines and everything else or to use a personally  modified ship and fighter list in the game engine but it is easier if it is more like no.3 with refit and officer selection but the visual efects as no.3 Maxillius Age
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The intent behind making a point about the age of the engine wasn't just from an asthetic stand-point, it's considering the capabilities of current computers.  SFC1's minimum spec is 200MHz w/ 32MB RAM i.e. pitifully small nowadays.  EAW and OP's minimum spec are 350MHz/64MB, reflecting the base capability of the time and Interplay underspecced the original.  If GAW were coming out now I wouldn't conider it if it ran slower than 1GHz or under 128MB RAM.  I *want* a processor intensive game, but I also want that game full of substance, not just eye candy.

So, yes, your first guess was it.  Make base hulls and separate "modlets" for weapon hardpoints.  I don't want to stop people from having all-phaser loadouts, so every hardpoint is a universal hardpoint.  There will still be mass limits for all systems, but there shouldn't be a need to split up heavy hardpoints and phaser hardpoints with this system.  Oh, and leftover mass from system component cannot be tranferred to other systems.  Take the Fed Connie.  Give her 50000 weapons mass and 35000 engine mass.  Phaser 1/IX (I think they're the same, not sure) uses 500 and photon launchers use 7000.  So, a connie with 4 photon launchers and 8 phaser 1/IX comes up to 32000, leaving 12000 to play with.  That leftover mass is only usable for weapons and cannot be transferred to engines.  And each type of engine will still only produce a certain amount of power, so your choices will depend heavily on what era your ship is, yet be VERY flexible.

About the Modlets:  Make separet modlets for each heavy weapon, but 2 or 3 types for phasers for the different eras: Enterprise, SFB/Movie era, and Lost Era/TNG and beyond.  Plus, this system would allow addition of special modlets for new weapons.  

 

[Merlinfmct87]

Quote:
I'm sorry if this offends you, I really am, but it's time for a new PC when they start making games that need more grunt that your system can offer.  On the bright side, there are new systems that are cheaper than the cost to upgrade your current system.  Plus, you could build one yourself for even less!  That being said, I realize that not everyone has the cash onhand to go out and get the uber PC they'd like to have.  Personally, I should've bought a car instead of my computers but I live at home and my parents let me use their cars so there's really no pressure.

Back to the topic, I realize that coding that nightmare would take a good chunk of forever, but by that time the majority of gamers will have systems that spec over 1 GHz.  I'm willing to wait for a truly intensive and all-inclusive Trek game.


If it's any consolation to you, my girlfriend's machine needs a new video card because although the rest of it will run Morrowind just fine (800MHz/256MB), the video card is only capable of 24bit color, and Morrowind needs 32  

OK, it doesn't offend me, I just don't have the money. Period. I'm just saying I'd like to play SFC GAW if it comes out, and not have to wait on the upgrade that coming...sometime. lol

btw...

I hope you get a card for you GF's comp soon.

TC

Merlin  

[SSCF_LeRoy]

Quote:
Looking for another n00bie cabin boy to replace ol LeRoy.  

 

I overlook one lousy thread for a lil' while and then I find this

   

[Age]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
So the real problem is liscensing, and finding a publisher.

Any hope if this being fixed?  

Indeed there is always hope, especially when there is still a fan base to support a new game.
 
Ann  

Ann, don't toy with us!  Some members of the community have a bad heart and can't take that kind of... ahhh...  "excitement"



Not me, of course!  

I agree aswell  or some of us will get depressed    

[Rod O'neal]

Quote:


Indeed there is always hope, especially when there is still a fan base to support a new game.
 
Ann  

TEASE!!!  

[Fedman]

[If you are going to place plame or insinuate blame to development of a game.. make sure you inplicate the proper company(s) that are resopnsible.... Taldren wanted more time to work on SFC 3.. Activision refused and pushed the title out because they wanted to meed the prime sales time 1 month before the Nemisis movie release...


Always follow the money trail for the answers  

[ghostcamel]

GAW shouldnt be made if the situation is going to be a repeat of SFC2s or SFC3s production cuts and publisher cheapskating.

It needs to have enough developtment time to get things right, or else theres no real reason to do it. Going the cheap route will just limit sales of what could be a masterpiece.

Other strategy niche games get this treatment. They get the time to do things right.

If it cant be GUARANTEED that you will receive the needed time to make a real GAW, then dont do it.

Im tired of the compromises.

Unfortunately, that probably means working 2-5, or more, years on other projects. But, i know it would be worth it.

Somewhat on the same subject, id love to see Paramount do a new cartoon Trek series. If you check out the "Bring back Kirk!" trailer, it gives yiou a rough sketch of what the look of such a series should be. Shatner seems to still have interest in Trek, he could his own voicework. No need for him to lose weight We could see some of the old cartoon races, we could get the bravado of TOS Kirk. Theres no limits with such a design. They could bring SFB back into the fold and consolidate the shrinking fanbase, and regrow it from there.

 

I know none of this stuff will come to pass. Exectuvies cant find their own asses, let alone good ideas.