Topic: So whats the hold up with SFC G.A.W

[Rod O'neal]

Didn't Taldren do SFC3 for $300,000.00? I seem to remember that figure.  

[Age]

    That is unless they were to make it over seas.Where there is cheaper labour costs and benifits.There is another reason publishers lose money they just only sell the game for a short time it seeems to me 8 months and after that they stop publishing if they kept on publishing the games they would still be making money off them.Just Imagine if your computer was stolen along with the disks to your games or destroyed in fire.The computer you can replace the disk of the games you can not.It is not like your audio and video cd and vhs or dvd collection they can be replaced aswell.What is someone were to do if this happened you cannot buy these game in a store anymore so what is some to do?

  This is why the publishers should never stop publishing them in maybe 5 or 6 years  then yes or possibly 10.What is someone who saving up to buy a game considering they aren't as cheap as cds and when they have a enough saved up an find out the game is no longer in publication then what are they suppose to do?I guess anyone who loses thier game or can not buy it can always go to E-BAY and see if it is in there and put a bid on it but the asking bid could be to much in case of fire or theft the insurance company will only but out so much.I know my place was break and entered and they took all the electronic stuff  2 ,25 inch tv sets vcrs my stereo is almost 30 thirty old and they won't get much fot it they didn't bother with that and my jeans do you see what I am trying to say and a computer with all the software buy it is an easy target to B&E person.

  This is why they should never stop puplishing Games you never what my happen.I hope you understand what I am saying.

[The_Infiltrator]

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Didn't Taldren do SFC3 for $300,000.00? I seem to remember that figure.  

I don't know, but apparently they needed to spend a lot more.

[Pestalence]

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Didn't Taldren do SFC3 for $300,000.00? I seem to remember that figure.  

I don't know, but apparently they needed to spend a lot more.  

reguardless of how much was spent during development.. which IIRC SFC 3 was in the millions.. SFC 3 was a work for hire.. in other words.. if Activision wanted a change.. taldren had to alter the code to make the change... Activision made changed to every aspect to SFC 3 and at the same time instead of allowing time for the changes to be tested properly, especially in later months (since the changes were constantly ordered by Activision), Activision pushed for game to make the market for the Nemisis release... Activision did not allow Taldren the time to properly impliment the changes that Activision wanted because Activision wanted to meet a release date...

Max, Taldren is not at fault... Taldren always tells the publishers that it will take more than a year for development.. and all 4 games were forced out earlier than Taldren wanted... Taldren had no say as the Publisher determines the release date and holds the power to change the release date.. as such SFC was consistantly released several monts early in development... the only SFC that was close to being done upon release was the First SFC title...

If you are going to place plame or insinuate blame to development of a game.. make sure you inplicate the proper company(s) that are resopnsible.... Taldren wanted more time to work on SFC 3.. Activision refused and pushed the title out because they wanted to meed the prime sales time 1 month before the Nemisis movie release...
 

[Crimmy]

 

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 at the same time instead of allowing time for the changes to be tested properly, especially in later months (since the changes were constantly ordered by Activision), Activision pushed for game to make the market for the Nemisis release... Activision did not allow Taldren the time to properly impliment the changes that Activision wanted because Activision wanted to meet a release date...
 

And since I'm an EX visioneer...I can confirm this...

Almost EVERY major gripe was addressed early on with little intrest or dismissive attitudes.....issues were brought up....but testers do not a publisher make....

 

[NannerSlug]

taldren LOST over $300,000  on sfc3 if memory serves me correctly.

what pestelance wrote is right.

[TheSatyr]

It would also help if there was a publisher that wanted an SFC GAW. Taldren can't fund it on their own.

Unfortunately,since the SFC series isn't much of a moneymaker I really don't see another SFC ever being made,regardless of which publisher eventually ends up with the license. Why put up 5-6 mil (at least) to fund a game that might not even sell 100,000 copies?

And even if a publisher decided to continue with SFC there is no guarantee that Taldren would be asked to develop the game.

[NannerSlug]

unfortunately that is another truism.

SFC series made money - but its strength was longitivity in sales (which will never happen with sfc3 - looks like activision is pulling copies/RMAing them from stores - for what reason i do not know). sfc (with the exception of SFC1) was never a strong hard-hitting title.

i still believe there is a market for a Trek-Oriented game - especially maybe an MMORPG type. or maybe just sorta like a NWN type except instead of people - you have ships (and you can get more detailed from there).

i think one of the main lessons learned more recently is to put more polish and detail into things to produce a good package.

will it happen? i dont know because of the lawsuits and the decreasing numbers of people watching trek.

[Rod O'neal]

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. What I meant was didn't Taldren charge Activision 300k to develope SFC3? That figure could very well be incorrect, I'm not certain. I'm not trying to stick my nose into anyone elses business or insinuate anything. That's not the reason that I mention it. I was only thinking this, What does it cost to get someone to develope a game? Not necessarily from scratch either, as from what I understand SFC3 used a lot of the code from the previous SFC titles. What would Taldren need to be paid to "complete" SFC2_OP? Add the Tholians, Andros, etc... and some new missions for them. Not to market and license it. Can anyone figure out where I'm going with this?  

[Pestalence]

Well, like I stated above.. just the labor alone for coding, model rendering, gaining permissions and licenses.. roughly about 3 or 4 million for 1 year development... the weapons would have to be coded in.. extensive testing for balance, reworking the entire code to incorporate the new races into the game.. and so forth..

basically you are asking them to redevelope the entire game just to add a couple of races and weapons, to test against every race in every mission with every ship just for balance (if tested correctly)... I mean you are basically asking for a new game... even with source code available.. it would have to be seriously rewritten .. almost be better to start from scratch...

SFC 3 stripped previous code from OP.. however, there is hardly any of the Original OP code in SFC 3 because of all the changes Activision forced them to do.. so now you have in essence a New game engine with Kudos to OP enging...

Rod.. I know how bad you want things added.. but unless someone has 1 or 2 million for the time it will take to develope it properly.. I seriously doubt it will ever be done..

as for SFC 3.. your $300,000 you keep mentioning is -$300,000.. that is how much Taldren LOST on SFC 3... More than likely Taldren was given $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 for SFC 3 developement and with all the changes and Overtime, they wound up ~ $300,000 in the hole.. now if sales made that up in royalties.. i don't know....

Try researching on the net for the cost to develope a game... imagine you have a team of say 60 people.. 50 are paid $15 an hour, 7 Paid $20 an hour.. and 2 make salary that works out to ~ $25 an hour...

Now figure out the cost of labor based on a 40 hour work week where 50 employees get 1.5 times regular pay for overtime after 40 hours.. now figure roughly 8 hours a week overtime for 25 employees....

what is your labor for 1 year...

and this is not considering anything else, only labor costs...

where ever you are getting your numbers from Rod.. you need to re-read it again slowly and carefully...
 

[Rod O'neal]

OK. So the answer to my question is, "No Rod. Taldren didn't get paid 300,000 to develope SFC3. That's how much they lost."

As I stated I thought that I had read that was what they got paid, but I wasn't sure. I appreciate the answer to my question.    

[Age]

  Please look up at my first post in this thread and read it very slowly aswell as those in Admin.  

[Kroma_BaSyl]

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Try researching on the net for the cost to develope a game... imagine you have a team of say 60 people.. 50 are paid $15 an hour, 7 Paid $20 an hour.. and 2 make salary that works out to ~ $25 an hour...

 

So Taldren would be outsourcing development to India then? Try about $60-$70 bucks an hour for staff developers when you factor in benefits and overhead. I would think $15 an hour ought to be about right for the cute receptionist in the lobby though.  

[Age]

   Check my posting on page one !!!!!!! Check my posting on page one !!!!!      

[Kroma_BaSyl]

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   Check my posting on page one !!!!!!! Check my posting on page one !!!!!        

It is not necessary for me to read your post in order to hijack this thread.  

The real problem with doing another SFC game at this point probably has more to do with Market saturation and therefore lack of demand, regardless of how low you can get things down on the expense side. That is not to say a game couldn't be done profitably per say, it is just that there are probably other projects with better margins and potential market demand that Taldren could be spending their time on. It is not about just being able to make a buck on a project, it is about putting your efforts into the project with the highest potential for returns. Not to mention all the licensing issues that are currently going on with the ST franchise, making another SFC game not as attractive a business plan as might be found with other projects.

Oh yeah, Pesty's $15 bucks an hour is about spot on for off shore development rates.

[Age]

  I am not trying to highjack it.I am just pointing out of they made it over seas the labour would cost would be less.Just think if you lost your computer in fire or theft along with your games disks.How would you ever get it back
considering they do not make these games anymore and If somebody was saving up to buy them and found out they were no longer in publication what are they to do ?What I am trying to say is that if kept on publishing them even today all the series that the publishers aswell as Taldren would be making money and there are more people playing these games than users in this forum they just do not want to be in here.

  I ask you agian how would you replace your game disks if they were stolen.destroyed or even damaged.What is someone to do to replace the game disk if they no longer in publication.I can only say that someones Star Fleet Cammand gaming days are over.I do agree with Pestalence if the made a new game in the USA but I don't think that is going to happen haven't you been keeping up with Taldrens news.What other flag is on Taldrens home page beside the US flag ?to the right .  

[Kroma_BaSyl]

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  I am not trying to highjack it.

Chill, I was joking around about MY hijacking of the thread.

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I am just pointing out of they made it over seas the labour would cost would be less.

And I was pointing out that Pesty's current breakdown of labor cost actually matched what it would be over seas, and the fact that the issue with making money on the game isn't really about expense, but more about market demand. A company can decided to make a game that they feel may sell a millions of copies or one that will sell a few hundred thousand, the cost would be realitvely the same to develop each regardless of where it is developed. Basically I an trying to give you a breif explanation of the product marketing that goes into the resource allocation decision that any company might make. Since they can only do so many projects successfully they are going to do the ones with the biggest market potential, regardless of the facts that the others might also be profitable but at a lower margin. It is about focus and not spreading yourself to thin.

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Just think if you lost your computer in fire or theft along with your games disks.How would you ever get it back
considering they do not make these games anymore and If somebody was saving up to buy them and found out they were no longer in publication what are they to do ?What I am trying to say is that if kept on publishing them even today all the series that the publishers aswell as Taldren would be making money and there are more people playing these games than users in this forum they just do not want to be in here.

And if it was profitable enough to maintain the overhead required to do this, they would I am sure. But my guess would be that for the few hundred consumers this would effect it ain't worth the trouble, the product life cycle is at an end. Remember it isn't about making any money, it is about making the smart big money in the most profitable markets, any of these chump change ventures only distracts from the core strategic marketing initiatives.

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  I ask you agian how would you replace your game disks if they were stolen.destroyed or even damaged.What is someone to do to replace the game disk if they no longer in publication.I can only say that someones Star Fleet Cammand gaming days are over.

Call the waaaambulance, Taldren is a business, not the SFC welfare provider.

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I do agree with Pestalence if the made a new game in the USA but I don't think that is going to happen haven't you been keeping up with Taldrens news.What other flag is on Taldrens home page beside the US flag ?to the right .    

Didn't Erik move to Korea to get the Taldren gobalization engines greased. I might have this mixed up, but I am guessing that like most fiscally responsible CEOs he will have to start considering over seas out sourcing if he hasn't already, because the competition sure is and the next game publisher that comes along looking for a bid on a dev shop to build their game will be doing what I do with all bids I receive and flipping to the last page.  

[Pestalence]

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Try researching on the net for the cost to develope a game... imagine you have a team of say 60 people.. 50 are paid $15 an hour, 7 Paid $20 an hour.. and 2 make salary that works out to ~ $25 an hour...

 

So Taldren would be outsourcing development to India then? Try about $60-$70 bucks an hour for staff developers when you factor in benefits and overhead. I would think $15 an hour ought to be about right for the cute receptionist in the lobby though.    

I was just going with plain labor costs.. nothing else... and I was using that as an example.. and that is an extremely LOW figure for developer's pay.

 

[Kroma_BaSyl]

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I was just going with plain labor costs.. nothing else... and I was using that as an example.. and that is an extremely LOW figure for developer's pay.

 

Yeah, even without overhead that is only about 25K annual salary. I was going with a fully loaded blended (average) developer/project manager rate of around 60K annual. Figure 1,675 billable (working) hours a year, plus a 2.1 multiplier to figure out the benefits and overhead loading. 25K a year is good pay in India though.

[TheSatyr]

Why do you think so many publishers are turning to East European Dev Companies? Lower costs.

Granted some of those companies have put out some good games,but alot of them were pure garbage.

Outsourcing may save money,but there's no gaurantee that the quality will be all that great.