Topic: Windows XP SP2 could break existing applications - Will SFC still work?

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Windows XP SP2 could break existing applications

I am not using XP myself, but thought that those who are would like to hear about this.  

[Sirgod]

Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

[Toasty0]

Quote:
Windows XP SP2 could break existing applications

I am not using XP myself, but thought that those who are would like to hear about this.    

Thanks for the reminder. It'd been a while sense I first read about this.

So far fromm what I've read I gather that one of the first casualties of this update will be apps written with Java and also the .Net runtimes.

I need to do some more reading, and maybe Mags, David, or DaveW, can say for sure, but depending on how some of the DirectX code is implemented (my guess here) there may be no effect whatsoever with single player desktop games. Directplay, otoh, may be andversely affected until the User re-opens all the ports that will be auto-closed (agins this is a guess on my part).

There may be other issues with this update that I haven't read about yet, but for now those are the only two potential problems I see looming on the horizon with this update.

From what I gather though is that this SP is a good thing and solves a whole slew of issue for a large portion of the internet connected computer user/server provider.

A portion of the developers paper
Some application behaviors are expected to be incompatible with execution protection. Applications which perform dynamic code generation (such as Just-In-Time code generation) that do not explicitly mark generated code with Execute permission might have compatibility issues with execution protection. Windows .NET Framework applications do not currently mark generated code with Execute permissions. XPSP2 recognizes the current, shipped versions of .NET Framework and runs them with NX off. Therefore existing .NET applications will continue to run. Microsoft is enhancing the .NET Framework to take advantage of NX and will ship service packs for each of the shipped versions in the XP SP2 RTM timeframe. The .NET Framework "Whidbey" will innately support NX.

Application developers may encounter applications that break when NX is turned on. Should this occur, the developer or system administrator can apply a “shim”, a piece of code that gets inserted into a call stack or chain of code. The issue usually occurs in an unmanaged context and was not planned for originally. The shim is added to the applications using the Application Compatibility Toolkit (ACT). A new shim, “Disable NX”, is included with ACT that disables Data Execution Prevention for an application, allowing it to run properly. More information on the Application Compatibility Toolkit is available at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Jerry  

[Sirgod]

Quote:

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

DOH ! My bad nemesis, Sorry Bro for being wrong on this one, But all the same, I'll keep a look out for IT.

Stephen Getting ready to read ToastyO' s responce.

 

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

DOH ! My bad nemesis, Sorry Bro for being wrong on this one, But all the same, I'll keep a look out for IT.

Stephen Getting ready to read ToastyO' s responce.

 

I should have clearly stated that it was the next service pack.   So no problem.  

I found Toasty's response interesting.  It confirmed my suspicion that Java would be a casualty.  I wonder when Sun will be given the information to allow them to update it?  

 

[TB613]

 

Quote:
 I found Toasty's response interesting. It confirmed my suspicion that Java would be a casualty. I wonder when Sun will be given the information to allow them to update it?

Since Sun & M$ are getting along so well I figure that two hours before the release of the SP sounds about right.    

[Demandred]

The new Microsoft motto is "It ain't done 'till Java won't run"?

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
The new Microsoft motto is "It ain't done 'till Java won't run"?  

Well the old motto is unneeded  (DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run) so I suppose they do need a new one.    

[Toasty0]

I suggested to Bill that he squash Sun and its inferior development language.

Never the less my suggestion not withstanding, some employee at MS who must not have been on the anti-Java memo list has released the following tools: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx

   

[JMM]

Toasty is correct, we have enough geniuses at Taldren and eslewhere to work around this issue.    

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
I suggested to Bill that he squash Sun and its inferior development language.

Never the less my suggestion not withstanding, some employee at MS who must not have been on the anti-Java memo list has released the following tools: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx

     

Now I did not read the entire link in detail but were any of those applicable to the new service pack being created?  If not were any of them published generally before the updates that they applied to were made public?

Microsoft is a convicted illegal monopoly, judged guilty of such behaviour in the past and therefore automatically under suspicion.  Until they have a new management that has demonstrated a changed behaviour they will always be suspected whenever they do anything with the potential to harm competitors.   Yes I do know that you are being somewhat tongue in cheek, but just as most would suspect the ex-con living next door of continuing his life of crime, Microsoft will be under suspicion for quite some time after they begin "good behaviour" (which has yet to begin).

Here is a link to an article with an interesting view on the closed source vs open source competition.

As to Java being inferiour, as a non programmer I can't really say.  But does C# run on Unix?  Linux?  Mac OS X?  If not then Java is superiour in at least one way.   A superiourity that Microsoft tried to destroy before Sun defeated them in the courts, followed by Microsoft using thier monopoly power against Java.  This, if it purposefully breaks Java and the information to allow that to be repaired is withheld from Sun would be more criminal monopoly activity by Microsoft.

   

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Windows XP SP2 could break existing applications

I am not using XP myself, but thought that those who are would like to hear about this.  

[Sirgod]

Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

[Toasty0]

Quote:
Windows XP SP2 could break existing applications

I am not using XP myself, but thought that those who are would like to hear about this.    

Thanks for the reminder. It'd been a while sense I first read about this.

So far fromm what I've read I gather that one of the first casualties of this update will be apps written with Java and also the .Net runtimes.

I need to do some more reading, and maybe Mags, David, or DaveW, can say for sure, but depending on how some of the DirectX code is implemented (my guess here) there may be no effect whatsoever with single player desktop games. Directplay, otoh, may be andversely affected until the User re-opens all the ports that will be auto-closed (agins this is a guess on my part).

There may be other issues with this update that I haven't read about yet, but for now those are the only two potential problems I see looming on the horizon with this update.

From what I gather though is that this SP is a good thing and solves a whole slew of issue for a large portion of the internet connected computer user/server provider.

A portion of the developers paper
Some application behaviors are expected to be incompatible with execution protection. Applications which perform dynamic code generation (such as Just-In-Time code generation) that do not explicitly mark generated code with Execute permission might have compatibility issues with execution protection. Windows .NET Framework applications do not currently mark generated code with Execute permissions. XPSP2 recognizes the current, shipped versions of .NET Framework and runs them with NX off. Therefore existing .NET applications will continue to run. Microsoft is enhancing the .NET Framework to take advantage of NX and will ship service packs for each of the shipped versions in the XP SP2 RTM timeframe. The .NET Framework "Whidbey" will innately support NX.

Application developers may encounter applications that break when NX is turned on. Should this occur, the developer or system administrator can apply a “shim”, a piece of code that gets inserted into a call stack or chain of code. The issue usually occurs in an unmanaged context and was not planned for originally. The shim is added to the applications using the Application Compatibility Toolkit (ACT). A new shim, “Disable NX”, is included with ACT that disables Data Execution Prevention for an application, allowing it to run properly. More information on the Application Compatibility Toolkit is available at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Jerry  

[Sirgod]

Quote:

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

DOH ! My bad nemesis, Sorry Bro for being wrong on this one, But all the same, I'll keep a look out for IT.

Stephen Getting ready to read ToastyO' s responce.

 

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

DOH ! My bad nemesis, Sorry Bro for being wrong on this one, But all the same, I'll keep a look out for IT.

Stephen Getting ready to read ToastyO' s responce.

 

I should have clearly stated that it was the next service pack.   So no problem.  

I found Toasty's response interesting.  It confirmed my suspicion that Java would be a casualty.  I wonder when Sun will be given the information to allow them to update it?  

 

[TB613]

 

Quote:
 I found Toasty's response interesting. It confirmed my suspicion that Java would be a casualty. I wonder when Sun will be given the information to allow them to update it?

Since Sun & M$ are getting along so well I figure that two hours before the release of the SP sounds about right.    

[Demandred]

The new Microsoft motto is "It ain't done 'till Java won't run"?

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
The new Microsoft motto is "It ain't done 'till Java won't run"?  

Well the old motto is unneeded  (DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run) so I suppose they do need a new one.    

[Toasty0]

I suggested to Bill that he squash Sun and its inferior development language.

Never the less my suggestion not withstanding, some employee at MS who must not have been on the anti-Java memo list has released the following tools: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx

   

[JMM]

Toasty is correct, we have enough geniuses at Taldren and eslewhere to work around this issue.    

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
I suggested to Bill that he squash Sun and its inferior development language.

Never the less my suggestion not withstanding, some employee at MS who must not have been on the anti-Java memo list has released the following tools: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx

     

Now I did not read the entire link in detail but were any of those applicable to the new service pack being created?  If not were any of them published generally before the updates that they applied to were made public?

Microsoft is a convicted illegal monopoly, judged guilty of such behaviour in the past and therefore automatically under suspicion.  Until they have a new management that has demonstrated a changed behaviour they will always be suspected whenever they do anything with the potential to harm competitors.   Yes I do know that you are being somewhat tongue in cheek, but just as most would suspect the ex-con living next door of continuing his life of crime, Microsoft will be under suspicion for quite some time after they begin "good behaviour" (which has yet to begin).

Here is a link to an article with an interesting view on the closed source vs open source competition.

As to Java being inferiour, as a non programmer I can't really say.  But does C# run on Unix?  Linux?  Mac OS X?  If not then Java is superiour in at least one way.   A superiourity that Microsoft tried to destroy before Sun defeated them in the courts, followed by Microsoft using thier monopoly power against Java.  This, if it purposefully breaks Java and the information to allow that to be repaired is withheld from Sun would be more criminal monopoly activity by Microsoft.

   

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Windows XP SP2 could break existing applications

I am not using XP myself, but thought that those who are would like to hear about this.  

[Sirgod]

Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

[Toasty0]

Quote:
Windows XP SP2 could break existing applications

I am not using XP myself, but thought that those who are would like to hear about this.    

Thanks for the reminder. It'd been a while sense I first read about this.

So far fromm what I've read I gather that one of the first casualties of this update will be apps written with Java and also the .Net runtimes.

I need to do some more reading, and maybe Mags, David, or DaveW, can say for sure, but depending on how some of the DirectX code is implemented (my guess here) there may be no effect whatsoever with single player desktop games. Directplay, otoh, may be andversely affected until the User re-opens all the ports that will be auto-closed (agins this is a guess on my part).

There may be other issues with this update that I haven't read about yet, but for now those are the only two potential problems I see looming on the horizon with this update.

From what I gather though is that this SP is a good thing and solves a whole slew of issue for a large portion of the internet connected computer user/server provider.

A portion of the developers paper
Some application behaviors are expected to be incompatible with execution protection. Applications which perform dynamic code generation (such as Just-In-Time code generation) that do not explicitly mark generated code with Execute permission might have compatibility issues with execution protection. Windows .NET Framework applications do not currently mark generated code with Execute permissions. XPSP2 recognizes the current, shipped versions of .NET Framework and runs them with NX off. Therefore existing .NET applications will continue to run. Microsoft is enhancing the .NET Framework to take advantage of NX and will ship service packs for each of the shipped versions in the XP SP2 RTM timeframe. The .NET Framework "Whidbey" will innately support NX.

Application developers may encounter applications that break when NX is turned on. Should this occur, the developer or system administrator can apply a “shim”, a piece of code that gets inserted into a call stack or chain of code. The issue usually occurs in an unmanaged context and was not planned for originally. The shim is added to the applications using the Application Compatibility Toolkit (ACT). A new shim, “Disable NX”, is included with ACT that disables Data Execution Prevention for an application, allowing it to run properly. More information on the Application Compatibility Toolkit is available at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Jerry  

[Sirgod]

Quote:

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

DOH ! My bad nemesis, Sorry Bro for being wrong on this one, But all the same, I'll keep a look out for IT.

Stephen Getting ready to read ToastyO' s responce.

 

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Hmm. I've been doing my best to keep up with Windows XP updates, and haven't had any problems yet, But thanks for the heads up. I'll try to use It to Break SFC (*) .

Stephen  

When it comes out.  I didn't make it clear but this is a planned update.  

DOH ! My bad nemesis, Sorry Bro for being wrong on this one, But all the same, I'll keep a look out for IT.

Stephen Getting ready to read ToastyO' s responce.

 

I should have clearly stated that it was the next service pack.   So no problem.  

I found Toasty's response interesting.  It confirmed my suspicion that Java would be a casualty.  I wonder when Sun will be given the information to allow them to update it?  

 

[TB613]

 

Quote:
 I found Toasty's response interesting. It confirmed my suspicion that Java would be a casualty. I wonder when Sun will be given the information to allow them to update it?

Since Sun & M$ are getting along so well I figure that two hours before the release of the SP sounds about right.    

[Demandred]

The new Microsoft motto is "It ain't done 'till Java won't run"?

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
The new Microsoft motto is "It ain't done 'till Java won't run"?  

Well the old motto is unneeded  (DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run) so I suppose they do need a new one.    

[Toasty0]

I suggested to Bill that he squash Sun and its inferior development language.

Never the less my suggestion not withstanding, some employee at MS who must not have been on the anti-Java memo list has released the following tools: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx

   

[JMM]

Toasty is correct, we have enough geniuses at Taldren and eslewhere to work around this issue.    

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

Quote:
I suggested to Bill that he squash Sun and its inferior development language.

Never the less my suggestion not withstanding, some employee at MS who must not have been on the anti-Java memo list has released the following tools: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/appcompatibility/default.mspx

     

Now I did not read the entire link in detail but were any of those applicable to the new service pack being created?  If not were any of them published generally before the updates that they applied to were made public?

Microsoft is a convicted illegal monopoly, judged guilty of such behaviour in the past and therefore automatically under suspicion.  Until they have a new management that has demonstrated a changed behaviour they will always be suspected whenever they do anything with the potential to harm competitors.   Yes I do know that you are being somewhat tongue in cheek, but just as most would suspect the ex-con living next door of continuing his life of crime, Microsoft will be under suspicion for quite some time after they begin "good behaviour" (which has yet to begin).

Here is a link to an article with an interesting view on the closed source vs open source competition.

As to Java being inferiour, as a non programmer I can't really say.  But does C# run on Unix?  Linux?  Mac OS X?  If not then Java is superiour in at least one way.   A superiourity that Microsoft tried to destroy before Sun defeated them in the courts, followed by Microsoft using thier monopoly power against Java.  This, if it purposefully breaks Java and the information to allow that to be repaired is withheld from Sun would be more criminal monopoly activity by Microsoft.