Topic: Tonight's Enterprise

[Kroma_BaSyl]

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Enterprise herself cannot be salvaged.  The only way her crew can make it out of this without timetravel is if (somehow) Earth sent a few NR or NW ships after Enterprise as backup and they (somehow) modified their warp 3 and 4 hulls to accommodate warp 5+ speeds.  Or, the Xindi that were thrown out of the Reptilians' ship start firing on the Reptilians, and allow the surviving Enterprise crew (both of them) passage on their ships.

But, as I said, poor NX-01 is beyond repair.  

Or the Andorian's come to the rescue and tow them back after Archer makes peace.....oops I think I just gave away the ending.

[EmeraldEdge]

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No, Vulcans and Romulans are identical.. the both originated on the planet Vulcan...

Bzzz, wrong.  That was in TOS, but in TNG (which apparently set's all precedent as they just ignore all the TOS klingons rather than explaining them) they have these really nasty forhead ridges.  Yuck!  Takes so much away.

I thought the fire extinguisher was kind of funny.  Apparently starfleet doesn't teach "stop drop and roll", they go with "flail arms and run around in circles". lol.

As for the time travel stuff, it's ludicrous.  I mean there is absolutely no reason for Archer and company to have anything to do with it, unless it's part of the timeline.  Why couldn't Daniels and crew go back and solve the Detroit Xindi/bio problem?  Supposedly it would take too much TIME to do the paperwork!  HA!   It's time travel folks, time isn't an issue, and just how much paperwork would it have taken to get permission to throw Archer and T'Pol back there to fix it?  It certainly causes way more problems than it's worth.

Maybe Daniels is in this by himself and he's tryin' some manipulations outside of Starfleet's time organization?  I doubt they will go that far though.  I really wish they stay away from the time travel.  Leave it for Dr. Who, or the rare episode (every few seasons, or once per series).  There are just too many holes to list, which shows how poorly written these things really are.  Sure they like time travel but if they aren't going to do it well, they need to do something else.  Unfortunately they are pretty much the only boat in the water.  No competition means they can just keep going on (although it sounds as if Paramount is finally at least thinking on pulling the plug from the dastardly duo, hopefully).  

[Pestalence]

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No, Vulcans and Romulans are identical.. the both originated on the planet Vulcan...

Bzzz, wrong.  That was in TOS, but in TNG (which apparently set's all precedent as they just ignore all the TOS klingons rather than explaining them) they have these really nasty forhead ridges.  Yuck!  Takes so much away.
 

[Buzz] wrong.

DS 9, Warf and others on DS9 travel into the past and meet up with Kirk in a merged episode of Trouble with Tribbles... Dax asked Warf about the difference in the klingons at that time.. Warf's response stated that is was a less tha honorable time in klingon history and wished not to discuss the matter further... non Canon sources state that Klingons and Romulans had a zone between them that they shared and as a combined experiment between the 2 races, klingon and Romulan DNA were mixed to create a superior breed of warrior... thus resulting in TOS klingons....

this is the most feasable explanation for that episode.. as such my theory stands unaltered..

if you keep up with Trek, watch all series as Roddenberry stated that if it says Star Trek in the title and it is on the screen, it is canon... thus, DS9 Validated the TOS era klingons as stated by Warf.
 

[Tremok]

 Right. It has also been said Romulans are different enough from Vulcans that a doctor that can perform surgery on a Vulcan can't necessarily do the same.

Also, Romulans live with their emotions all their lives, and hence, like Humans and most other species, they learned to control them to a degree.

Vulcans do not control, they suppress. And hence when the Human crew of Enterprise erode T'Pol's emotional defenses they are not mature emotions of an adult that has lived with emotions all their life, but rather they are the emotions of a child or teenager, and they are quite powerful, much more so than a Humans. T'Pol, it sould seem, doesn't know how to deal with them.

PS, Romulans are called Romulans because they made the planet Romulus their new homeworld.

PSS, Romulus and Remus are supposedly the twin brothers that founded Rome. In the Star Trek universe, Remus is a twin planet to Romulus.    

[EmeraldEdge]

Yeah, but they had to do that.  It was the only way they could revisit the most popular TOS episode (as many, many polls have revealed the Trouble with Tribbles to be).  They didn't explain though they just sherked it off as if it was nothing, as I don't believe they are smart enough or creative enough to come up with a feasible answer (otherwise we wouldn't have the massive holes in the time plotlines, since it's their favorite).  I'm aware of that episode.  So, what, I wonder is the reasoning behind the forhead ridges of the Romulans then?  It can't be "the zone" that non-canon sources state unless the entire Romulan empire was taken over (since I don't think the Klingon high council was ever seen on TOS, it could be explained that they were ridged) but we have seen all Romulans post TMP as ridge heads.

Has anyone ever heard B&B say that this is an alternate timeline?  Since it has Star Trek in the title now, that makes it canon right?

As for T'pol being a Romulan, then it would have to be the Ambassador as well (and a few others) as they all show signs of emotions on their surface.  The explanation from the boys at the top has been that Vulcans have emotions they just control them (albeit very poorly in Enterprise vs. every other Trek show).  

[LordThomas]

I just wish people would stop bashing the show and open there eyes and mind to see we got a really good show here ,its the only trek we have,so lets enjoy it while it last........all good things end.    

[Pestalence]

Ok.. Cannon sources to provide 1 ST Fact as stated above : I was wrong about Vulcans being identical.. however cosmetic surgury can change that in an instant...

But back to the point...

Vulcan's and Romulans came from the same ancestors

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/aliens/TOS/article/70706.html

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 Romulans
Episode: Balance of Terror
 
Planets: Romulus and Romii.
Until stardate 1709.2 when the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 under the command of Captain James T. Kirk had an unfriendly run-in with a Romulan ship. Very little was known about the species in general, although theories did exist. Although descended from the same ancestors as are Vulcans, the Romulans are surprisingly different than their distant cousins both in physiology and in behavioral customs. Romulan technology includes the "cloaking device" allowing them stealth and making them formidable opponents.

 

here is an explanation to the Romulan Ridges... Klingon DNA !

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/aliens/TOS/article/70706.html

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The physiology is subtly different from Vulcans, but enough so that surgery on a severely injured Romulan is difficult for Dr. Crusher. Romulan ribosomes apparently do not match those of humans or, surprisingly, Vulcans ? but can match those of Klingons. The race still believes in discarding genetically or physically inferior infants, and that it will conquer the galaxy. They view the Federation as exploitative and short-sighted, according to Jarok. Their metabolism ? or at least his ? appears to be faster than human standard; the higher rate will help his treated skin burns heal faster. Throughout their long history of war, Romulans have rarely attacked first, opting instead to test their enemies' resolve ? a chess game, Captain Picard calls it.

here is one of several thoeries on Klingon Ridges, but coencides with the Romulans having klingon DNA !

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/features/documentaries/article/1614.html

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The Bioengineered Agent Theory

After the Klingons first contact with humanity, concern and suspicion arose in the Empire.

Humans were already receiving assistance from the Vulcans and with the territorial Romulans in a nearby star system, the Empire needed to "enhance" its warriors to prepare for these new threats. Using this as justification, the Klingon High Council introduced and approved widespread use of a Bioengineered Agent (using a synergy of DNA from various species and modified to adapt to Klingon physiology) which enhanced physical and mental reflexes. Many of the initial tests and pilot programs of the Bio-agent were done on Klingons who were most likely to contact other species, especially those serving in the Empire's spacefaring ships, as well as young male and female Klingons who were preparing to become warriors.

At first, the psycho-pharmacological effects proved to be quite effective at enhancing ability but after time, a curious side effect began to emerge ? the Klingon forehead ridges began to disappear, as well as overall muscle mass. The more the substance was used, the greater the side effects. It seemed that the Bio-agent was starting to alter Klingon DNA.

Concerned that these side effects were changing the Klingon genotype permanently, the Klingon High Council decided to restrict usage of the Bio-agent. Within a short time, many of the Klingons that stopped taking the Bio-agent began to slowly revert to their original physiology. Nonetheless, it was apparent that the Bio-agent remained dormant in the Klingon physiology. In some cases, the Bio-agent was known to have been passed to Klingon progeny, however with no apparent ill effects.

After ending usage of the Bio-agent throughout the Empire, traces of it became more difficult to detect in the Klingon bloodstream, however records show that some species have been able to "smell" the Bio-agent, which typically causes an adverse reaction in the observer - most notably the cute and inoffensive Tribble species.

Thus these 2 theories lead William Shatner to write "Ashes of Eden" (story takes place after ST : VI Undiscovered Country, 6 months before beginning of Generations)
) where he met a lady named Telani, who was half Klingon, half Romulan and ended up going to her home planet after falling in love with her. her Home planet is named Chal, where kirk discovers that Romulans and klingons were geneticlly engineered into a specialized warrior race which revolted long ago against the klingons (reference TOS Klingons) and then werre suppresed by the True Blood Klingons (reference TMP [first ridges]).. chal is in desparate times, thus Telani results in convincing kirk to save her world which is caught between klingon and Romulan space with an enemy not belonging to either race (klingons and Romulans had abandonded this planet long ago as both races dispised the crossbred race that they created).. The planet itself held many clues to the TOS Klingons including a museun with a BOP in it (completely non functional) and other items..

the rest of the book  i won't give away, but with exception of a couple developments after the book was written (such as Phasers in Enterprise and something in a TNG movie) it follows Canon pretty well, including NCC-1701-A in mothballs awaiting decomissioning... already stripped of Federation sensitive technology.

anyhow, this leads me to believe that according to resources that at one time Vulcan's and Romulans were the same race, had a civil war, Romulans left and later created the Romulan Empire, developed a genetic program with klingons (thus DNA of Klinks in Romulans [provided that the offspring looked Romulan enough to pass back into the main society]) and it also explains the lack of ridges on the kllingons in TOS, which would most likely be a dishonorable time in the klingon history, especially if their experiments made a somewhat successful revolt for a period of time, which current Klingons would not like to talk about.

Thus with just a bit of cosmetic surgery, Romulans can look like vulcans and T' Pol with her emmotional flaws could just turn out to be a Romulan acting like a Vulcan.. Besides, watching all the TOS and TNG episodes, Romulans in TOS had no ridges in TNG they did, thus more proof of DNA engineering at hand and / or not all romulans develope ridges....

so i still stand by what i said, T' Pol to me is a Romulan acting like a Vulcan...

 

[SghnDubh]

Weighing in with a considered opinion:

1. Nanner/others might be right. Xindi will probably help repair enterprise ala Archer's determination & general ability to bleed well on camera... but we cannot discount the "temporal cold war" plot line that simply got left in the dust during season 1. But it has to end well, because American audiences cannot bear a sad ending (result: poor ratings).

2. Somehow, the overarching story must be completed before they cancel Enterprise: Birth of the Federation. Daniels keeps showing up and hinting that Archer is the guy that essentially propells all of these other races to join a space-born United Nations. He's lassoed Andorians, maybe Vulcans, and Daniels rattles off a few others in last night's episode...So we gotta wrap that up somehow before they send this turkey to the table. (Sorry, American reference there).

3. Remember Quark's remark in DS9 as they were flying over Los Alamos? I think it went, "You mean these hew-MAHNS irradiated their atmosphere with atomic bombs PURPOSEFULLY? It's amazing they were able to found an intersteller federation in such a short time" (or something like that). Well, it appears B & B seized on this question: How WOULD a backwards blue-water planet with a few ape-like mammals that had evolved to the point of almost committing genocide against themselves suddenly be able to form an all-powerful interstellar concordium that ends up kicking ass well into the 25th century? Heh. I'm gonna save this post; damn that's some fine writing!  

4. Post too long. Aborting.    Don't censor me SirGod (hee hee).

   

[EmeraldEdge]

I agree that she and the ambassador act more like Romulans than they do Vulcans.  In that there can be no doubt, I've been urked by the way the Vulcan's behave and are portrayed in Enterprise.  All their mysticism is a taboo (no way does it become mainstream by TOS), and then they decide to eroticize so much.  The neuropressure thing is out of control, imo.  Not that they couldn't have such a thing but the way they portray it.  

[nx_adam_1701]

Yup I agree, I like it but I agree lol lol, I remember back in the beginning she was complaining about how humans smell, a couple of seasons later, she bumping and gringing the engineer lol, funny show


adam out

[Pestalence]

Spoiler for the next episode.. the follow up to the one in this discussion thread ??????

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/ENT/episode/3150.html

this is a teaser spoiler.
 

[NannerSlug]

its a re-run. interesting eppisode, though.

[FFZ]

 From what I saw, only a few people got blown into space, not the entire crew. It is certainly possible the ship could defeat the four ships and move off, but I doubt that is the plan.

More likely, Archer has convinced the non-rertillian Xindi to at least halt their attck. Daniels never says that ALL the Xindi races survivbed, he just said Xindi join the federation, it is just as likely the 4 races will kill off the aggressive reptiles.

T'Pol's behavior was already explained, and I knew they would fall back on something stupid ( to see what, read the spoiler that was already linked earlier in the thread.)

This whole story arc was lame, I knew it would be something pointless, as most time travel stories are. Once the Xindi are convinced to attack earth, the easiest course, outside of going yourself, is to send a ship from later in the time stream, that the Xindi couldn't handle, say Kirk's enterprise. Of corse, they will make up all kinds of lame reasons why you can't, I'm sure.

I'd still like to see the show go on, minus these stupid time travel things.    

[Scipio_66]

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 It is certainly possible the ship could defeat the four ships and move off, but I doubt that is the plan.
   

Maybe there is "only" three left.  I'd swear I saw at least one of the Xindi ships destroyed by a photonic torpedo attack, but none of the crew ever mentioned it.  Did anyone else see a Xindi ship explode?  

-S'Cipio

[FFZ]

 You did see it , one of the enemy ships did indeed blow up, enterprise flew through the explosion. They could always saw a lot of the damage was to 'non-critical systems' (except for one nacelle Tripp says is lost) and salvage the fight that way.

But I doubt it, they are headed to a B&B solution, fighting solves nothing, we made you go through all this BS just so, at the last freakin minute, Daniels tells you, you should have been making peace all along.

Yeah, right  

[Maxillius]

If they say 3 to 5 severe hull breaches and a severely damaged warp nacelle amounts to "non-critical systems", then I will have lost all respect for the show.  I will say one thing though.  Enterprise was built far and above better than any ship built since.  1701-D took far less from an old Klingon ship and her warp core breached.  1701 took a bit more damage but she lost all power and had to resort to trickery to defeat Khan.  


Perhaps T'pol will realize this, signal their surrender, and allow boarders.  At which point they can fight aboard their crippled ship and use the multiple holes in the hull to their advantage.

[E_Look]

Folks, I missed the first 20 minutes of the episode.  I joined in when Daniels took Archer aboard the Ent-J.  Can someone clue me into what happened preceding that scene he shows Archer the Federation victorious over the transdimensionals?  If it's too long to post, I wouldn't mind an e-mail.  As to my VCRs?  They stink.  That's all.  

[SSCF_LeRoy]

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VCRs? They stink.

Can't argue with that

[FFZ]

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Folks, I missed the first 20 minutes of the episode.  I joined in when Daniels took Archer aboard the Ent-J.  Can someone clue me into what happened preceding that scene he shows Archer the Federation victorious over the transdimensionals?  If it's too long to post, I wouldn't mind an e-mail.  As to my VCRs?  They stink.  That's all.  

Enterprise arrives secretly, Tripp and  Travis take the insectoid shuttle they previously captured to the planet, and sneak onto it, finding the weapon.

They discover a hidden listening post, and Archer orders it destroyed, killing three Xindi, the next scene is archer saying no more people will be ordered to their death or to kill, he will take the attack ship in himself. Then Daniels pops him into the future, you know the rest .  

[Age]

   I will have say that Pestalence is probably right about T-Pol.Spock or Sarek never made any mention of going to Earth in 2060Picerd has never seen a Vulcan from 21,22 and 23 century.It could have been Romulans who landed on Earth instead we have never seen Vulcan star ships aswell.Archer has never even been to Vulcan how is he to know what they are really like and live.Spock has never said anything about thier raking system or order and a Sub-Cammnder is a Romulan rank this is puzzling.T-pol just sits there  she is used to having her people in a major combat or has she devoloped feeling for Archer when we saw tears coming from her it is hard to know.