Topic: Shorting should be a criminal offense! (Read 3134 times)

JMM · « **on:** March 01, 2004, 12:20:36 pm »

Stock market, companies, etc... What "shorts" do is "borrow" stocks using their money as collateral, they then hope a stock goes down, then buy the stock at the lower price and keep the profits from the stock going down from the price they borrowed it at.

Who in the HADES made that legal? It's not cool to be gambling with American companies and peoples jobs.

IMO, you are either in or out, no if's, ands, or but's...

Toasty0 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 01, 2004, 01:49:57 pm »

Quote:

Stock market, companies, etc... What "shorts" do is "borrow" stocks using their money as collateral, they then hope a stock goes down, then buy the stock at the lower price and keep the profits from the stock going down from the price they borrowed it at.

Who in the HADES made that legal? It's not cool to be gambling with American companies and peoples jobs. IMO, you are either in or out, no if's, ands, or but's...

This is the concept of a stock being a commodity, Jack. Its a game the big boys play and in the long run does not directly affect the price of the stock.

Best,
Jerry

SL-Punisher · « **Reply #2 on:** March 01, 2004, 02:08:09 pm »

Arent these also called stock options?

Death_Merchant · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2004, 02:22:22 pm »

No, completely different.

In a stock option, you are awarded options of stock at a given price (usually market price at the time of award).
You only make money if you sell the options when the excise price is higher than the award price.

i.e. I was awarded 800 options in 1999 for ~ $24/share. I exercise them in 2003 at market price of $34. I make $8000.

The $8000 is subject to income tax and capitol gains.

NoCuteName · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:31:53 pm »

Well, for there to be short selling there has to be a buyer, a person who believes that the stock will go up, so there is a part of this that is optimistic. The part of the market that I wish would change is the day trading, the buying and selling of shares many times in one day to try to take advantage of small intraday fluctuations. Maybe shares should have to be held for a short period after buying, maybe 48 hours, before selling.

TB613 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:46:54 pm »

The computerized trading by the various funds can cause more problems than any of the other things mentioned. Since they all have simular triggers for buying or selling when those triggers are tripped they can have an effect that is totally out of proportion on that stock and even the entire market. when you hear about a stock that goes up or down by a wider margin that the financial news would indicate it is almost always the computerized trading that causes it.

JMM · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:57:53 pm »

DM, you mean not only we pay the 28 percent capital gains tax (as if that was not enough), we also add it into the yearly income to be taxed as well?

Sounds like a bunch of Washington and ritch beech BS to me if that is how it works, the lil guy gets screwed again

I use Scottrade, and I'm not allowed to sell for 3 days after making a purchase, are there brokerage firms out there that are allowing same day trades? From what Dogmatix told me (He is a manager at a brokerage firm), 3 days is the minimum set by Federal law, unless it has changed recently.

Death_Merchant · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2004, 05:23:06 pm »

Jack,
I was specifically referring to options. I don't recall now, but I think I was clever enough to hold on to them for 5 yrs before exercising them-> cap gains then is only 10%. Compensation from stock options is taxable. At least in my case

I know little about stock trading. That's not my thing....
I was not aware of ANY limitation on turn-around time for trades (at least for the big brokers). I may be wrong.

I do recall a bit of controversy where some houses were able to get trades in after 5pm. Therefore benefiting from knowledge of how the market closed...
And yes, it was the big guys making out like bandits!

JMM · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2004, 07:51:45 pm »

I'm familiar with the big houses doing after hours trading, IPXL went up a lot of cents a share on Friday after close of market.

I guess Dogmatix is busy with the new Klingon, but if memory serves correct, he told me the current limit on selling is 3 days after you buy. I'll get a friend to call Scottrade tomorrow to confirm. Knowledge is a good thing ya know

.

JMM · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2004, 12:20:36 pm »

Stock market, companies, etc... What "shorts" do is "borrow" stocks using their money as collateral, they then hope a stock goes down, then buy the stock at the lower price and keep the profits from the stock going down from the price they borrowed it at.

Who in the HADES made that legal? It's not cool to be gambling with American companies and peoples jobs.

IMO, you are either in or out, no if's, ands, or but's...

SL-Punisher · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2004, 02:08:09 pm »

Arent these also called stock options?

Death_Merchant · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2004, 02:22:22 pm »

No, completely different.

In a stock option, you are awarded options of stock at a given price (usually market price at the time of award).
You only make money if you sell the options when the excise price is higher than the award price.

i.e. I was awarded 800 options in 1999 for ~ $24/share. I exercise them in 2003 at market price of $34. I make $8000.

The $8000 is subject to income tax and capitol gains.

NoCuteName · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:31:53 pm »

Well, for there to be short selling there has to be a buyer, a person who believes that the stock will go up, so there is a part of this that is optimistic. The part of the market that I wish would change is the day trading, the buying and selling of shares many times in one day to try to take advantage of small intraday fluctuations. Maybe shares should have to be held for a short period after buying, maybe 48 hours, before selling.

TB613 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:46:54 pm »

The computerized trading by the various funds can cause more problems than any of the other things mentioned. Since they all have simular triggers for buying or selling when those triggers are tripped they can have an effect that is totally out of proportion on that stock and even the entire market. when you hear about a stock that goes up or down by a wider margin that the financial news would indicate it is almost always the computerized trading that causes it.

JMM · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:57:53 pm »

DM, you mean not only we pay the 28 percent capital gains tax (as if that was not enough), we also add it into the yearly income to be taxed as well?

Sounds like a bunch of Washington and ritch beech BS to me if that is how it works, the lil guy gets screwed again

I use Scottrade, and I'm not allowed to sell for 3 days after making a purchase, are there brokerage firms out there that are allowing same day trades? From what Dogmatix told me (He is a manager at a brokerage firm), 3 days is the minimum set by Federal law, unless it has changed recently.

Death_Merchant · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2004, 05:23:06 pm »

Jack,
I was specifically referring to options. I don't recall now, but I think I was clever enough to hold on to them for 5 yrs before exercising them-> cap gains then is only 10%. Compensation from stock options is taxable. At least in my case

I know little about stock trading. That's not my thing....
I was not aware of ANY limitation on turn-around time for trades (at least for the big brokers). I may be wrong.

I do recall a bit of controversy where some houses were able to get trades in after 5pm. Therefore benefiting from knowledge of how the market closed...
And yes, it was the big guys making out like bandits!

JMM · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2004, 07:51:45 pm »

I'm familiar with the big houses doing after hours trading, IPXL went up a lot of cents a share on Friday after close of market.

I guess Dogmatix is busy with the new Klingon, but if memory serves correct, he told me the current limit on selling is 3 days after you buy. I'll get a friend to call Scottrade tomorrow to confirm. Knowledge is a good thing ya know

.

JMM · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2004, 12:20:36 pm »

Stock market, companies, etc... What "shorts" do is "borrow" stocks using their money as collateral, they then hope a stock goes down, then buy the stock at the lower price and keep the profits from the stock going down from the price they borrowed it at.

Who in the HADES made that legal? It's not cool to be gambling with American companies and peoples jobs.

IMO, you are either in or out, no if's, ands, or but's...

SL-Punisher · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2004, 02:08:09 pm »

Arent these also called stock options?

Death_Merchant · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2004, 02:22:22 pm »

No, completely different.

In a stock option, you are awarded options of stock at a given price (usually market price at the time of award).
You only make money if you sell the options when the excise price is higher than the award price.

i.e. I was awarded 800 options in 1999 for ~ $24/share. I exercise them in 2003 at market price of $34. I make $8000.

The $8000 is subject to income tax and capitol gains.

NoCuteName · « **Reply #22 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:31:53 pm »

Well, for there to be short selling there has to be a buyer, a person who believes that the stock will go up, so there is a part of this that is optimistic. The part of the market that I wish would change is the day trading, the buying and selling of shares many times in one day to try to take advantage of small intraday fluctuations. Maybe shares should have to be held for a short period after buying, maybe 48 hours, before selling.

TB613 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:46:54 pm »

The computerized trading by the various funds can cause more problems than any of the other things mentioned. Since they all have simular triggers for buying or selling when those triggers are tripped they can have an effect that is totally out of proportion on that stock and even the entire market. when you hear about a stock that goes up or down by a wider margin that the financial news would indicate it is almost always the computerized trading that causes it.

JMM · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:57:53 pm »

DM, you mean not only we pay the 28 percent capital gains tax (as if that was not enough), we also add it into the yearly income to be taxed as well?

Sounds like a bunch of Washington and ritch beech BS to me if that is how it works, the lil guy gets screwed again

I use Scottrade, and I'm not allowed to sell for 3 days after making a purchase, are there brokerage firms out there that are allowing same day trades? From what Dogmatix told me (He is a manager at a brokerage firm), 3 days is the minimum set by Federal law, unless it has changed recently.

Death_Merchant · « **Reply #25 on:** March 01, 2004, 05:23:06 pm »

Jack,
I was specifically referring to options. I don't recall now, but I think I was clever enough to hold on to them for 5 yrs before exercising them-> cap gains then is only 10%. Compensation from stock options is taxable. At least in my case

I know little about stock trading. That's not my thing....
I was not aware of ANY limitation on turn-around time for trades (at least for the big brokers). I may be wrong.

I do recall a bit of controversy where some houses were able to get trades in after 5pm. Therefore benefiting from knowledge of how the market closed...
And yes, it was the big guys making out like bandits!

JMM · « **Reply #26 on:** March 01, 2004, 07:51:45 pm »

I'm familiar with the big houses doing after hours trading, IPXL went up a lot of cents a share on Friday after close of market.

I guess Dogmatix is busy with the new Klingon, but if memory serves correct, he told me the current limit on selling is 3 days after you buy. I'll get a friend to call Scottrade tomorrow to confirm. Knowledge is a good thing ya know

.

News:

Topic: Shorting should be a criminal offense! (Read 3134 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

JMM

Toasty0

SL-Punisher

Death_Merchant

NoCuteName

TB613

JMM

Death_Merchant

JMM

JMM

Toasty0

SL-Punisher

Death_Merchant

NoCuteName

TB613

JMM

Death_Merchant

JMM

JMM

Toasty0

SL-Punisher

Death_Merchant

NoCuteName

TB613

JMM

Death_Merchant

JMM

Topic: Shorting should be a criminal offense! (Read 3134 times)