Topic: New BattleClinic.com Article On The AMML Cheat / Exploit

[Tulmahk]

Here's a link to the article I just put up over at BattleClinic.com concerning Antimatter Mine Layer loadouts being an expoit / cheat:

AMML Exploit Article at BattleClinic.com

I appeal to all D3 server admins as well as fleet admins and individual players to adopt the recommendations set out in the article.  

[Xerxes712]

Can you lock on a tractor beam and hold him, his mines take time to go off and he will drag you along and avoid active mines (unless the mines are instant on). At the same time with him tractored, blast him away. Only a guess, will this work as a counter?

With you having a  big tractor, AMML will not be able to over run more than once without getting a real hurt, have you looked at this? My favorite tactic is using a biggest tractor to hold victum from my ' puny' ship and they can not get away, strip a shield down and H & R his warp core. I saw this as a problem with borg with no shield a long time ago, everyone knows about it now.  

[Tulmahk]

Remember, the faster ship does the dragging when a tractor is locked on.  That means the AMML will be doing the dragging, not the victim ship.  He need only to rotate you into existing mines, and with AMMLs recharging so fast, in a few seconds he'll lay a fresh set behind his ship and drag you into them.  Ships just don't survive 6 AMMs intact.

Also, you still need at least 4-5 hits to knock him out of the game.  He only needs 1 or 2 to kill you.  You can counter, yes, but there is no margin for error at all (unless the AMML player is incompetent).  Properly used, no ship stands a chance at all against this exploit.

The game was never meant to include this loadout.  It must be banned.  

[Warden]

Excellent! It is about time someone stepped up onto the soapbox .

Well done Tulmahk    

[Xerxes712]

Yes, the faster ship may be doing the dragging, but if MY  tractor beam is bigger and latches on to him FIRST, I will be doing the rotation around me, so he will not be able to drop mines into my path.

Unless I am mistaken, He can not rotate me around him, I have the tractor on him to rotate him the AMML. Thus, I can stay out of the way of his mines dropping. I blow his shield and since he has no weapons, H & R his warp or impulse engine, etc.

Also, as he is pushing me and I rotate to keep him shoving me forward, I drop a mine and they hit him. I have done this before. My big tractor I latch him first, he pushes me but I lock onto to him first and I control him by rotate him and I stay in front.
He can not rotate me around behind as you say if I have HIM  tractored. Am I missing something? Yes, AMML is cheese but the counter needs a big tractor and works....??? Someone tried this to me once and they never forgot it.  

[Tulmahk]

I see we both agree it is an exploit.  That's all that matters, really.  Counter or no counter, no one should be exploiting.

The patch will weaken this loadout, and server admins should go the extra mile and make it illegal to mount more than 1 AMML on your ship.  I trust we agree here, too.

After all, if there are no rules, or the rules are not adhered to, there is no game, right?
 

[Koloth]

However, tractors are still operational when tractored in sfc3. I can tractor you as well nullifying the rotation by counteraction.

[Demandred]

Drone boats, anyone? Once the big bad of SFC, now any half competant player can take them out without breaking a sweat. The dreaded plasma R? Useless. Just because someone refuses to play the game the way you want them to play it doesn't mean they are cheating. Tactics.

[Tulmahk]

So exploiting bugs is OK?  I doubt most people would agree with you.

Drone boats and plasma R are both perfectly legal under SFC2.  There are no ethical issues in using them.  Under SFC3, AMMs are not meant to do nearly as much damage as they end up doing.  Ergo, there is an ethical issue in their use.

I'm not asking anyone to play the game in any way other than one:  fairly.  Perhaps you consider that asking too much?  Perhaps you consider using exploits like Alt+F4 to be perfectly acceptable because, after all, the game allows it?  

[Blitzkrieg]

I think under the new patch, if a player wants to waste the heavy hard points they should be allowed to use whatever load out they want. I know it can be sevearly damaging, but to use all 6 (or is it 7) hardpoints on a Sov? Surely you would be a sitting duck, have to have low shields and get blasted to pieces in a minute or less.

Sure they could get you in a few passes but its going to be a lot lot easier to beet these players now. Ok sure I wont use it, I think its lame to use such an unskilled tactic (as you can lay all mines in one spot which surely isnt the inention, I consider this a bug, laying more than one mine in the same place would surely cause them to detonate on your own hull?), I just think now anyone wanting to go toe to toe with me in a mine layer better prep the Alt+F4 buttons cause they are goind down  

Next weeks news - Blitz gets taken out by mine layer

Server admins should consider this as a rule.  

[Tulmahk]

Yes, Blitz, the minelayer is at his weakest when flying alone.  The real problem crops up when the AMML is used as a fleet component.  Just try dealing with an AMML and 2 conventional sluggers at the same time.  Just don't forget to kiss your 100K PP goodbye for no good reason.


Even worse, just try dealing with 3 AMMLs.

[MarianoDT]

Maybe we should be able to target the mines and destroying them with primary weapons fire or proves.
 

[Tulmahk]

Here's a link to the article I just put up over at BattleClinic.com concerning Antimatter Mine Layer loadouts being an expoit / cheat:

AMML Exploit Article at BattleClinic.com

I appeal to all D3 server admins as well as fleet admins and individual players to adopt the recommendations set out in the article.  

[Xerxes712]

Can you lock on a tractor beam and hold him, his mines take time to go off and he will drag you along and avoid active mines (unless the mines are instant on). At the same time with him tractored, blast him away. Only a guess, will this work as a counter?

With you having a  big tractor, AMML will not be able to over run more than once without getting a real hurt, have you looked at this? My favorite tactic is using a biggest tractor to hold victum from my ' puny' ship and they can not get away, strip a shield down and H & R his warp core. I saw this as a problem with borg with no shield a long time ago, everyone knows about it now.  

[Tulmahk]

Remember, the faster ship does the dragging when a tractor is locked on.  That means the AMML will be doing the dragging, not the victim ship.  He need only to rotate you into existing mines, and with AMMLs recharging so fast, in a few seconds he'll lay a fresh set behind his ship and drag you into them.  Ships just don't survive 6 AMMs intact.

Also, you still need at least 4-5 hits to knock him out of the game.  He only needs 1 or 2 to kill you.  You can counter, yes, but there is no margin for error at all (unless the AMML player is incompetent).  Properly used, no ship stands a chance at all against this exploit.

The game was never meant to include this loadout.  It must be banned.  

[Warden]

Excellent! It is about time someone stepped up onto the soapbox .

Well done Tulmahk    

[Xerxes712]

Yes, the faster ship may be doing the dragging, but if MY  tractor beam is bigger and latches on to him FIRST, I will be doing the rotation around me, so he will not be able to drop mines into my path.

Unless I am mistaken, He can not rotate me around him, I have the tractor on him to rotate him the AMML. Thus, I can stay out of the way of his mines dropping. I blow his shield and since he has no weapons, H & R his warp or impulse engine, etc.

Also, as he is pushing me and I rotate to keep him shoving me forward, I drop a mine and they hit him. I have done this before. My big tractor I latch him first, he pushes me but I lock onto to him first and I control him by rotate him and I stay in front.
He can not rotate me around behind as you say if I have HIM  tractored. Am I missing something? Yes, AMML is cheese but the counter needs a big tractor and works....??? Someone tried this to me once and they never forgot it.  

[Tulmahk]

I see we both agree it is an exploit.  That's all that matters, really.  Counter or no counter, no one should be exploiting.

The patch will weaken this loadout, and server admins should go the extra mile and make it illegal to mount more than 1 AMML on your ship.  I trust we agree here, too.

After all, if there are no rules, or the rules are not adhered to, there is no game, right?
 

[Koloth]

However, tractors are still operational when tractored in sfc3. I can tractor you as well nullifying the rotation by counteraction.

[Demandred]

Drone boats, anyone? Once the big bad of SFC, now any half competant player can take them out without breaking a sweat. The dreaded plasma R? Useless. Just because someone refuses to play the game the way you want them to play it doesn't mean they are cheating. Tactics.

[Tulmahk]

So exploiting bugs is OK?  I doubt most people would agree with you.

Drone boats and plasma R are both perfectly legal under SFC2.  There are no ethical issues in using them.  Under SFC3, AMMs are not meant to do nearly as much damage as they end up doing.  Ergo, there is an ethical issue in their use.

I'm not asking anyone to play the game in any way other than one:  fairly.  Perhaps you consider that asking too much?  Perhaps you consider using exploits like Alt+F4 to be perfectly acceptable because, after all, the game allows it?  

[Blitzkrieg]

I think under the new patch, if a player wants to waste the heavy hard points they should be allowed to use whatever load out they want. I know it can be sevearly damaging, but to use all 6 (or is it 7) hardpoints on a Sov? Surely you would be a sitting duck, have to have low shields and get blasted to pieces in a minute or less.

Sure they could get you in a few passes but its going to be a lot lot easier to beet these players now. Ok sure I wont use it, I think its lame to use such an unskilled tactic (as you can lay all mines in one spot which surely isnt the inention, I consider this a bug, laying more than one mine in the same place would surely cause them to detonate on your own hull?), I just think now anyone wanting to go toe to toe with me in a mine layer better prep the Alt+F4 buttons cause they are goind down  

Next weeks news - Blitz gets taken out by mine layer

Server admins should consider this as a rule.  

[Tulmahk]

Yes, Blitz, the minelayer is at his weakest when flying alone.  The real problem crops up when the AMML is used as a fleet component.  Just try dealing with an AMML and 2 conventional sluggers at the same time.  Just don't forget to kiss your 100K PP goodbye for no good reason.


Even worse, just try dealing with 3 AMMLs.

[MarianoDT]

Maybe we should be able to target the mines and destroying them with primary weapons fire or proves.