Topic: SFB OP Mod 04

[Bonk]

I've made enough fixes and changes, which along with the new installer size, was well worth a new version:

SFB OP Mod v04  or (Mirror 1) or  (Mirror 2)

The new version does not include any mission scripts to avoid future conflicts. The new installer only includes the shiplist, fighterlist, shipnames, strings, textures and models. It is also considerably smaller, only 45.3MB! It installs to 512MB on disk. The new version does not include stock files but rather backs up your current files under \SFB_OP_04_backup in your OP installation folder and offers the choice to keep custom files in another folder on uninstall for the manual swappers. Uninstall previous versions or other mods before installing SFB OP 04.

I am running a D2 server with the current version and EEK 2.1 to work out the details for the next version and solicit additional feedback. If you get a missions file error on login, uninstall EEK 2.1, then download and install the latest EEK mission pack.

It is a two-way war: Fed,Hydran,Gorn,Kzinti,LDR,Thol -vs- Lyran,Rom,Klingon,ISC,Andro,WYN with the beastraiders stuck in the middle at war with everyone. Anyone silly enough to login as BeastRaiders will be awarded a Juggernaught or Space Dragon I have captured from the db - just ask...

There is a webmap for the campaign here: SFB-OP Webmap
(I also seem to have mandatories for pirates working properly...?)

There is more in the works for SFB OP and a few rough spots to polish off, any feedback or questions are welcome!      

[Khalee]

Hey check the D2 forums for my reply

[Corbomite]

I'm new at the models thing, but don't you need entries in th model size file to make all this work? I didn't notice a model size file in the models folder you provided.

[Bonk]

Quote:
I'm new at the models thing, but don't you need entries in th model size file to make all this work? I didn't notice a model size file in the models folder you provided.  

I'm using all the Fleetdock13 models (mostly) as is, no model.siz file included, correct. I may include one in future versions if there is the need. So far I havent really found one necessary, except perhaps the gorns and hydran fighters are a bit large... but that's "natural" I guess...  

[Corbomite]

Can we add entries for them in our model size file and have it work and if yes how do we know what the size is now?

[Crimmy]

Any way to get this without models for us 56k'ers?

[Bonk]

Quote:
Can we add entries for them in our model size file and have it work and if yes how do we know what the size is now?  

I think so, but I have not really messed with the model.siz file yet. (FS, DH123 or Dizzy know the details I think). All I know for sure is that you will get a message in multiplayer if your model.siz file is different from your opponent's. This mod uses the stock model.siz file, so if no entry is present, the model appears at the default size I assume. There is no reason you couldn't try a few out and see. (back up your file first of course). If anything is really out of whack size-wise this is one improvement I'd like to include.  

[Corbomite]

Multiplayer is not a problem as this will be for my single player games. I just want to resize the new monsters. I make the model fit the size of the creature, unlike Taldren who made a one size fits all model for them. So I have small, medium and large versions, plus  baby versions that I put on a large monster that is "pregnant". The babies come out fast mean and hungry and mama wants to teach them to hunt!! The Space Dragon will be really fun for this.

[Bonk]

Quote:
Any way to get this without models for us 56k'ers?  

I'm sorry Crim but I do not think I'll do a "lite" version until I have a final version. It would be a lot of work (almost as much as doing the mod over again). I have to go through the entire list and reference stock models where I have chosen custom models (and folders) for every entry in the list. I have forgotten which stock models are appropriate and in many cases there are none. I had promised a "lite" version before, but to be realistic and honest, I don't think I'll produce one until I'm satisfied the full version is complete. My sincerest apologies, but at least I have done my best to make the full version smaller. (<50%!!!  )

- If anyone is willing to edit the list to point to all stock folders and models (the hard part) and send me a copy, that would considerably expedite the process of writing an installer script to copy all those stock models to the custom folders referenced by the list, and might mean I could have a light version all that much sooner... but that is dreary work...  

[Crimmy]

Quote:

Quote:
Any way to get this without models for us 56k'ers?  

I'm sorry Crim but I do not think I'll do a "lite" version until I have a final version. It would be a lot of work (almost as much as doing the mod over again). I have to go through the entire list and reference stock models where I have chosen custom models (and folders) for every entry in the list. I have forgotten which stock models are appropriate and in many cases there are none. I had promised a "lite" version before, but to be realistic and honest, I don't think I'll produce one until I'm satisfied the full version is complete. My sincerest apologies, but at least I have done my best to make the full version smaller. (<50%!!!  )

- If anyone is willing to edit the list to point to all stock folders and models (the hard part) and send me a copy, that would considerably expedite the process of writing an installer script to copy all those stock models to the custom folders referenced by the list, and might mean I could have a light version all that much sooner... but that is dreary work...    

*snicker*...well...knowing you and FS....I'd say you guys are never done...you'll allways be finding something you want to tweak or improve upon (for which I am truely thankful BTW)...

NP at all...just thought I'd ask

And Yes....some day I'll get cable

[Julin Eurthyr]

Quote:

Quote:
Can we add entries for them in our model size file and have it work and if yes how do we know what the size is now?  

I think so, but I have not really messed with the model.siz file yet. (FS, DH123 or Dizzy know the details I think). All I know for sure is that you will get a message in multiplayer if your model.siz file is different from your opponent's. This mod uses the stock model.siz file, so if no entry is present, the model appears at the default size I assume. There is no reason you couldn't try a few out and see. (back up your file first of course). If anything is really out of whack size-wise this is one improvement I'd like to include.  

Bonk:

Model.siz is very important for any project that includes new ship folders and is used in a competitive atmosphere, aka D2 / lamespy...

In case you missed it, here's the whole story:

Each player puts their own model into the ship folders.  The models don't have to match on both playing computers, and the model can be any size.  Seeking weapons count range from the physical location of the firing hardpoint on the model, DF weapons count range from centerpoint of the model, and the firing player's computer tracks their own weapons.
Certain unscrupulous individuals made extremely large models, where the seeking weapon fired from a point effectively 10k-20k in "front" of the ship.  However, on the victim's computer, the enemy was probably a "stock" size.
So, in a plasma example, cheater would fire plasma from his range 10, victim's range 20-30.  victim thinks he has plenty of time to evade, but firer's computer tracks a range-10 shot then reports the hit a few seconds later.  Victim's computer then compensates for reported hit, looks a lot like lag, but is actually a cheat.  Firer shoots back, the shots are actually within the cheater's model until such time as they impact the target on the victim's computer.

Model.siz was created in order to force a rescale of all ships to specified sizes.  Ships that are smaller than model.siz's entry are enlarged, and super-ships are shrunk to the same size on all player's computers, therefore removing this particular exploit.  Taldren only added entries for the stock models.

Taking your case, any new model folders you created are subject to being taken advantage of in this manner, until you add lines in model.siz to have them scale your new model folders appropriately.  Luckily, the FD13 models are, for the most part, preety close to the stock models (some are shrunk down to .8 original size, a few are expanded to 1.2 original size or so), but that doesn't prevent someone from putting in a super-ship in place of an FD13 one and taking advantage (even unintentionally) of this.

[Bonk]

Thanks for all the detail, I was pretty much aware of most of it.
... except I thought you had to add an entry to your model.siz file to resize a model (thus giving the message). It didn't occur to me that someone would resize the models themselves. (duh!) I guess I'll have to include a model.siz file in the next version to ensure nobody cheats by resizing their models directly by editing them. Thanks again for the input and info!  

[wanderer]

Hey, Bonk, I think it's a hit...



Btw, could you post a list/breakdown of what model folders are added? I couldn't find any documentation on it.  I would visually check the models folder myself, but I have so many extra model folders of my own, I would have a hard time telling what was what, lol.

Thanks for a fine mod.  

[Bonk]

Thats the people waiting for all the files on those servers, its not quite that popular! Thanks for the nice thoughts though.   (so far there have only been a pitiful four downloads from fileplanet - probably by subscribed users... I imagine most are using the mirrors linked above because there's no wait - the mirrors may expire eventually so there's a permanent copy on fileplanet...)

The model folder breakdown is pretty simple: all the custom models are placed under "\Assets\Models\SFB_OP", no stock model folders are used by the mod for custom models, a few stock models are currently referenced by the list however.  

[Bonk]

The SFB-OP D2 server will be unavailable until it is determined why the directory server is accepting but not listing D2 servers on port 28100.  

[Bonk]

It seems the D2 directory server is listing servers on port 28100 again, the SFB-OP server is available for logins again...  port 28100 hiatus unexplained... investigating...  

[Kieran Forester]

Bonk,

Any chance we could get X-ships for the races in a subsequent update?

[Bonk]

Quote:
Bonk,

Any chance we could get X-ships for the races in a subsequent update?  

Funny you should mention... I was thinking of that earlier... A few versions ago I pulled the X-ships because I used the mod mostly for direct tcp/ip games where we played a lot of battlefests and the X-ships were too unbalancing for that use. Now that I have the Andros working on a D2 it makes sense to give the empires their X-tech back. I'll look at putting them back in for the next version. My priority for now is to produce a model.siz file that preserves the current model sizes which is a rather daunting task with no automation...  

[DonKarnage]

what exacly is this sfb op?

[Bonk]

There isn't really a description in this thread is there! (oops...) The installer describes it thus:

*******************************************************
This mod includes PFs, Fighters, LDR, Tholians, WYN and Andros. Engine doubling for the cartel slots is disabled. Empire and Cartel slots are used as follows:

F   Federation         Ftr/Donated PF
K   Klingon            Ftr/Donated PF
R   Romulan         PF/Donated Ftr
Z   Kzinti            Ftr/Donated PF
L   Lyran            PF/Donated Ftr
G   Gorn            PF/Donated Ftr
H   Hydran            Ftr/Donated PF
I   ISC            Ftr/Donated PF
C   LDR (Camboro)                 Ftr/Donated PF
P   Andromedan (Prime)      Donated PF
W   WYN (WyldeFire)      Ftr/Donated PF
X   Orion (Orion)         Ftr/Donated PF
Y   Tholian/Neo-Tholian (Korgath)   Ftr/Donated PF
B         BeastRaiders         Ftr

O   Orion (non-player)      Ftr/Donated PF
S   Syndicate (Ftr donor)      Ftr donor
T   TigerHeart (PF donor)      PF donor

This will install:

1) A modified version of gman's SFB SHIPLIST FOR SFC ORION PIRATES (original created 2001-09-20, modified 2004-02-20)

2) The Fleetdock13 models (created by Anduril, Atra-hasis Cleeve, E, Ghost.fox, Lansing, Starfire, Stress puppy, Jeff Wallace and Wicked Zombie)

3) The Tholian Will models by Commodore Brezgonne (Daniel K. Thompson)

4) Selected models and textures from Chris Jones' Ultimate TOS mod for SFC:OP

Enjoy! Please send any issues to: bonk_371@hotmail.com
******************************************************

... Hope that helps... Just ask if you have any specific questions.  

[Bonk]

Small missions update for the SFB OP D2 server: here. (280KB)

Edit: Hint... check the models forum for an Easter Egg!

[Bonk]

Missions update host pooched - post above past editing time...
Missions update now here.  

[Bonk]

I've made enough fixes and changes, which along with the new installer size, was well worth a new version:

SFB OP Mod v04  or (Mirror 1) or  (Mirror 2)

The new version does not include any mission scripts to avoid future conflicts. The new installer only includes the shiplist, fighterlist, shipnames, strings, textures and models. It is also considerably smaller, only 45.3MB! It installs to 512MB on disk. The new version does not include stock files but rather backs up your current files under \SFB_OP_04_backup in your OP installation folder and offers the choice to keep custom files in another folder on uninstall for the manual swappers. Uninstall previous versions or other mods before installing SFB OP 04.

I am running a D2 server with the current version and EEK 2.1 to work out the details for the next version and solicit additional feedback. If you get a missions file error on login, uninstall EEK 2.1, then download and install the latest EEK mission pack.

It is a two-way war: Fed,Hydran,Gorn,Kzinti,LDR,Thol -vs- Lyran,Rom,Klingon,ISC,Andro,WYN with the beastraiders stuck in the middle at war with everyone. Anyone silly enough to login as BeastRaiders will be awarded a Juggernaught or Space Dragon I have captured from the db - just ask...

There is a webmap for the campaign here: SFB-OP Webmap
(I also seem to have mandatories for pirates working properly...?)

There is more in the works for SFB OP and a few rough spots to polish off, any feedback or questions are welcome!      

[Khalee]

Hey check the D2 forums for my reply

[Corbomite]

I'm new at the models thing, but don't you need entries in th model size file to make all this work? I didn't notice a model size file in the models folder you provided.

[Bonk]

Quote:
I'm new at the models thing, but don't you need entries in th model size file to make all this work? I didn't notice a model size file in the models folder you provided.  

I'm using all the Fleetdock13 models (mostly) as is, no model.siz file included, correct. I may include one in future versions if there is the need. So far I havent really found one necessary, except perhaps the gorns and hydran fighters are a bit large... but that's "natural" I guess...  

[Corbomite]

Can we add entries for them in our model size file and have it work and if yes how do we know what the size is now?

[Crimmy]

Any way to get this without models for us 56k'ers?

[Bonk]

Quote:
Can we add entries for them in our model size file and have it work and if yes how do we know what the size is now?  

I think so, but I have not really messed with the model.siz file yet. (FS, DH123 or Dizzy know the details I think). All I know for sure is that you will get a message in multiplayer if your model.siz file is different from your opponent's. This mod uses the stock model.siz file, so if no entry is present, the model appears at the default size I assume. There is no reason you couldn't try a few out and see. (back up your file first of course). If anything is really out of whack size-wise this is one improvement I'd like to include.  

[Corbomite]

Multiplayer is not a problem as this will be for my single player games. I just want to resize the new monsters. I make the model fit the size of the creature, unlike Taldren who made a one size fits all model for them. So I have small, medium and large versions, plus  baby versions that I put on a large monster that is "pregnant". The babies come out fast mean and hungry and mama wants to teach them to hunt!! The Space Dragon will be really fun for this.

[Bonk]

Quote:
Any way to get this without models for us 56k'ers?  

I'm sorry Crim but I do not think I'll do a "lite" version until I have a final version. It would be a lot of work (almost as much as doing the mod over again). I have to go through the entire list and reference stock models where I have chosen custom models (and folders) for every entry in the list. I have forgotten which stock models are appropriate and in many cases there are none. I had promised a "lite" version before, but to be realistic and honest, I don't think I'll produce one until I'm satisfied the full version is complete. My sincerest apologies, but at least I have done my best to make the full version smaller. (<50%!!!  )

- If anyone is willing to edit the list to point to all stock folders and models (the hard part) and send me a copy, that would considerably expedite the process of writing an installer script to copy all those stock models to the custom folders referenced by the list, and might mean I could have a light version all that much sooner... but that is dreary work...  

[Crimmy]

Quote:

Quote:
Any way to get this without models for us 56k'ers?  

I'm sorry Crim but I do not think I'll do a "lite" version until I have a final version. It would be a lot of work (almost as much as doing the mod over again). I have to go through the entire list and reference stock models where I have chosen custom models (and folders) for every entry in the list. I have forgotten which stock models are appropriate and in many cases there are none. I had promised a "lite" version before, but to be realistic and honest, I don't think I'll produce one until I'm satisfied the full version is complete. My sincerest apologies, but at least I have done my best to make the full version smaller. (<50%!!!  )

- If anyone is willing to edit the list to point to all stock folders and models (the hard part) and send me a copy, that would considerably expedite the process of writing an installer script to copy all those stock models to the custom folders referenced by the list, and might mean I could have a light version all that much sooner... but that is dreary work...    

*snicker*...well...knowing you and FS....I'd say you guys are never done...you'll allways be finding something you want to tweak or improve upon (for which I am truely thankful BTW)...

NP at all...just thought I'd ask

And Yes....some day I'll get cable

[Julin Eurthyr]

Quote:

Quote:
Can we add entries for them in our model size file and have it work and if yes how do we know what the size is now?  

I think so, but I have not really messed with the model.siz file yet. (FS, DH123 or Dizzy know the details I think). All I know for sure is that you will get a message in multiplayer if your model.siz file is different from your opponent's. This mod uses the stock model.siz file, so if no entry is present, the model appears at the default size I assume. There is no reason you couldn't try a few out and see. (back up your file first of course). If anything is really out of whack size-wise this is one improvement I'd like to include.  

Bonk:

Model.siz is very important for any project that includes new ship folders and is used in a competitive atmosphere, aka D2 / lamespy...

In case you missed it, here's the whole story:

Each player puts their own model into the ship folders.  The models don't have to match on both playing computers, and the model can be any size.  Seeking weapons count range from the physical location of the firing hardpoint on the model, DF weapons count range from centerpoint of the model, and the firing player's computer tracks their own weapons.
Certain unscrupulous individuals made extremely large models, where the seeking weapon fired from a point effectively 10k-20k in "front" of the ship.  However, on the victim's computer, the enemy was probably a "stock" size.
So, in a plasma example, cheater would fire plasma from his range 10, victim's range 20-30.  victim thinks he has plenty of time to evade, but firer's computer tracks a range-10 shot then reports the hit a few seconds later.  Victim's computer then compensates for reported hit, looks a lot like lag, but is actually a cheat.  Firer shoots back, the shots are actually within the cheater's model until such time as they impact the target on the victim's computer.

Model.siz was created in order to force a rescale of all ships to specified sizes.  Ships that are smaller than model.siz's entry are enlarged, and super-ships are shrunk to the same size on all player's computers, therefore removing this particular exploit.  Taldren only added entries for the stock models.

Taking your case, any new model folders you created are subject to being taken advantage of in this manner, until you add lines in model.siz to have them scale your new model folders appropriately.  Luckily, the FD13 models are, for the most part, preety close to the stock models (some are shrunk down to .8 original size, a few are expanded to 1.2 original size or so), but that doesn't prevent someone from putting in a super-ship in place of an FD13 one and taking advantage (even unintentionally) of this.

[Bonk]

Thanks for all the detail, I was pretty much aware of most of it.
... except I thought you had to add an entry to your model.siz file to resize a model (thus giving the message). It didn't occur to me that someone would resize the models themselves. (duh!) I guess I'll have to include a model.siz file in the next version to ensure nobody cheats by resizing their models directly by editing them. Thanks again for the input and info!  

[wanderer]

Hey, Bonk, I think it's a hit...



Btw, could you post a list/breakdown of what model folders are added? I couldn't find any documentation on it.  I would visually check the models folder myself, but I have so many extra model folders of my own, I would have a hard time telling what was what, lol.

Thanks for a fine mod.  

[Bonk]

Thats the people waiting for all the files on those servers, its not quite that popular! Thanks for the nice thoughts though.   (so far there have only been a pitiful four downloads from fileplanet - probably by subscribed users... I imagine most are using the mirrors linked above because there's no wait - the mirrors may expire eventually so there's a permanent copy on fileplanet...)

The model folder breakdown is pretty simple: all the custom models are placed under "\Assets\Models\SFB_OP", no stock model folders are used by the mod for custom models, a few stock models are currently referenced by the list however.  

[Bonk]

The SFB-OP D2 server will be unavailable until it is determined why the directory server is accepting but not listing D2 servers on port 28100.  

[Bonk]

It seems the D2 directory server is listing servers on port 28100 again, the SFB-OP server is available for logins again...  port 28100 hiatus unexplained... investigating...  

[Kieran Forester]

Bonk,

Any chance we could get X-ships for the races in a subsequent update?

[Bonk]

Quote:
Bonk,

Any chance we could get X-ships for the races in a subsequent update?  

Funny you should mention... I was thinking of that earlier... A few versions ago I pulled the X-ships because I used the mod mostly for direct tcp/ip games where we played a lot of battlefests and the X-ships were too unbalancing for that use. Now that I have the Andros working on a D2 it makes sense to give the empires their X-tech back. I'll look at putting them back in for the next version. My priority for now is to produce a model.siz file that preserves the current model sizes which is a rather daunting task with no automation...  

[DonKarnage]

what exacly is this sfb op?

[Bonk]

There isn't really a description in this thread is there! (oops...) The installer describes it thus:

*******************************************************
This mod includes PFs, Fighters, LDR, Tholians, WYN and Andros. Engine doubling for the cartel slots is disabled. Empire and Cartel slots are used as follows:

F   Federation         Ftr/Donated PF
K   Klingon            Ftr/Donated PF
R   Romulan         PF/Donated Ftr
Z   Kzinti            Ftr/Donated PF
L   Lyran            PF/Donated Ftr
G   Gorn            PF/Donated Ftr
H   Hydran            Ftr/Donated PF
I   ISC            Ftr/Donated PF
C   LDR (Camboro)                 Ftr/Donated PF
P   Andromedan (Prime)      Donated PF
W   WYN (WyldeFire)      Ftr/Donated PF
X   Orion (Orion)         Ftr/Donated PF
Y   Tholian/Neo-Tholian (Korgath)   Ftr/Donated PF
B         BeastRaiders         Ftr

O   Orion (non-player)      Ftr/Donated PF
S   Syndicate (Ftr donor)      Ftr donor
T   TigerHeart (PF donor)      PF donor

This will install:

1) A modified version of gman's SFB SHIPLIST FOR SFC ORION PIRATES (original created 2001-09-20, modified 2004-02-20)

2) The Fleetdock13 models (created by Anduril, Atra-hasis Cleeve, E, Ghost.fox, Lansing, Starfire, Stress puppy, Jeff Wallace and Wicked Zombie)

3) The Tholian Will models by Commodore Brezgonne (Daniel K. Thompson)

4) Selected models and textures from Chris Jones' Ultimate TOS mod for SFC:OP

Enjoy! Please send any issues to: bonk_371@hotmail.com
******************************************************

... Hope that helps... Just ask if you have any specific questions.  

[Bonk]

Small missions update for the SFB OP D2 server: here. (280KB)

Edit: Hint... check the models forum for an Easter Egg!

[Bonk]

Missions update host pooched - post above past editing time...
Missions update now here.  

[Bonk]

Had a blast flying 7 ship fleets (Andro) with a 3 ship ISC wing equipped with 9 plasma fighters and an escort. I'd forgotten what fun it is fly a proper fleet... Now if only we'd had a matched set of opponents it would have been absolute mayhem!  Oh, the carnage!
(by way of a bump)