Topic: Why don't the larger Klingon ships cloak? (Read 8139 times)

CyberHank1701 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2004, 04:42:59 pm »

Quote:

No disrepect intended here either, but Star Trek the Magazine has a model of the entire V'ger ship, which direction was what and how big the model actually was (nearly 30 feet long I believe) stated that it was from the front. Kirk orders a Conic Section flight path to the center of the cloud, bringing them parallel with whatever they find in there. The parabolic course I believe you are referring to was Saavik at the start of Star Trek II during her Kobayashi Maru test, she orders a parabolic course to avoid entering the neutral zone.

Also considering that they were pressed for time and didnt know what they were going to find inside, a parabolic course to enter from the rear doesn't make sense in that you gain no real advantage, and you wasted a lot of time getting around something that is 82 AU in diameter.

Lieutenant_Q,

I have not seen the "Star Trek the Magazine" article with the V'Ger ship model that you are referring to. So are you saying that the maw that opens up and tractor beams the Enterprise inside the V'Ger ship is located at the V'Ger ship's rear in this magazine instead of the front of the V'Ger ship? The Director's Edition has the maw of V'Ger's ship pointing toward Earth as it is approaching Earth. I am aware that the Conic Section is comprised of a point, parabola, hyperbola, ellipse and circle (all circles are ellipses with both foci at the center). Perhaps that line about the Conic Section flight path is the parabolic course plotted.

CyberHank1701
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CyberHank1701 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2004, 02:35:41 pm »

The Vampire Lestat,

My mistake, you wrote "it" so I thought "it" was referring to the V'Ger ship that Lt. Q and I were discussing.

Sorry about that cheif,

CyberHank1701
=/\=

CyberHank1701 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2004, 03:13:51 pm »

Lt. Q and everyone else,

For what it is worth, I reviewed my copy of the extended version of ST:TMP with the scene in question, which follows at 1 hour into the film:

INTERIOR BRIDGE SET OF THE ENTERPRISE:

Navigator Lt. Ilia: 5 minutes to cloud boundary.

Capt. Kirk: Navigator lay in a conic section flight path to the cloud center, bring us parallel to whatever we find in there. Mr. Sulu, tactical plot on viewer.

Helmsman Lt. Cmd. Sulu: Tactical on viewer sir.

Then when Commander Decker says "That measures 12th power!" (referring to the energy field cloud), you will notice on Mr. Spock's science station upper right circular monitor is a black and white display of a 2 dimensional graphic of the x-axis, the y-axis and a parabola with its directrix (parabola and directrix are rotated about 45 degrees from the y-axis) depicting the parabolic course laid in by Lt. Ilia. The novel was more specific and stated that Lt. Ilia plotted a parabolic course to swing around the Intruder Cloud and follow it from behind.

The above scene was deleted from the Director's Edition.

Later on when the Enterprise has penetrated the cloud and reached the center of the cloud the scene that follows is:

INTERIOR BRIDGE SET OF THE ENTERPRISE:

Kirk: Reduce magnification 4 Mr. Sulu.

Sulu: We're already 2 settings below that sir.

Kirk: Mr. Sulu, Bring us into a parallel course over the Alien at 500 meters.

Sulu: 500 meters?

Kirk: (nodding yes) Then take us out 100 kilometers distance adjusting parallel course.

Sulu: Aye sir.

Then we see an exterior shot of the Enterprise approaching the rear of V'Ger's ship which has a pattern lit up circle inside a 6 pointed star. Additionally, on the commentary track of the Director's Edition of the DVD of this scene the Special Photographic Effects Supervisor John Dykstra says that while they were filming this scene where the Enterprise reaches the center of the cloud and is approaching the rear of the V'Ger ship the rest of the V'Ger ship model was being built. Later in the Director's Edition during the first 15 seconds of chapter 27 we see the Sun in the upper left of the screen and the Earth in the lower right of the screen with the V'Ger ship approaching Earth with that same circle inside of the star pattern on the V'Ger ship's rear.

Thanks Lt. Q and everyone else for responding to my post. I enjoyed discussing my favorite Star Trek game and film with you.

CyberHank1701
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CyberHank1701 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2004, 05:01:40 pm »

Hello,

I have SFC1 and I was wondering why the larger Klingon Ships (Battlecruisers, Dreadnoughts and Battleships) don't have a cloaking device. All of their Romulan converted counterparts do. I believe the K-D5Y is the last of Klingon line of cloaked ships in SFC1. The K'Tinga (K-D7 variant) had a cloaking device in the 7th season Voyager episode "Prophecy". Also, in Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Khan, during the Kobayashi Maru simulator test, it is implied that 3 Klingon K'Tingas decloaked once the Enterprise crossed the Klingon Neutral Zone. Additionally in the 3rd season TOS episode "The Enterprise Incident" 3 Klingon D7 (Klolode) decloak and surround the Enterprise, which has crossed the Romulan Neutral Zone. The Romulans own and operate these 3 ships and have added their cloaking device to the Klingon D7s. So why doesn't SFC1 have a Klingon K-D6Y, K-D7Y, K-C8Y, K-C9Y, K-B10Y and KB11Y that can cloak? I do have the EagleEye Ship Edit program and I am able to give these Klingon ship types (K-D6, K-D7, K-C8, etc...) the ability to cloak, but I was wondering why a separate "Y" class (for example K-D6Y) does not exist to represent the cloaking ability for these larger Klingon ships.

CyberHank1701
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Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2004, 05:26:27 pm »

It is my understanding that in SFB, which SFC is based on, the bulk of Klingon ships do not cloak. We wouldn't want to be clones of the Romulans, now would we? Technology exchange treaty or allied status not withstanding...

Pretty much the same thing can be said of FASA Trek Klingons. However, in Trek games, the Klingon Academy Klingon Warships use the cloaking device more. The Largest Klingon Vessel in TMP times to have a Cloaking device is the Accuser DN at 600m.

http://www.3dactionplanet.com/klingonacademy/archive/kanews/klingon/index.html

I always wondered why a FASA Klingon D-10 wasn't kitted out with a cloaking device, LOL...

http://www.sub-odeon.com/stsstcsmua/

The beauty of the SFC series is, if you want cloaking, torpedo firing Klingons, you can tweak the shiplist to your heart's content.

Qapla!

KF

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2004, 05:27:37 pm »

Largely because SFB was written for the time just following the events of TOS, which would mean, while yes, the Klingons have access to the cloaking device, they have yet to install it on all of their vessels, as they do not see the advantages to do so. They believe hiding from the enemy to be cowardly and would prefer to fight. Gradually the idea of using the Cloak to surprise your enemy is realized as an effective battle tactic that comes with no loss of honor, and it does, by the 24th century see widespread use throughout the fleet.

CyberHank1701 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2004, 06:47:59 pm »

Thank you gentlemen. Lieutenant_Q (or anyone else) based on your response does this mean that if the I.K.V. Amar K'Tinga had a cloaking device that its captain would choose not use it to survive V'Ger's attack in "Star Trek: The Motion Picture"? This captain would rather die (become digitized) than cloak and evade a weapon of mass destruction (possibly Federation in origin as it was headed directly for a Federation planet, Sol 3 (Earth))? Would the Klingon Council punish this captain and his crew for such a "cowardice" act (cloaking to survive) or reward him for providing vital information about this weapon of mass destruction (V'Ger)?

CyberHank1701
=/\=

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2004, 08:16:21 pm »

Also, think about how the Klingon ships and weapons are set up in SFB; they hit fast over and over again. The cloak makes you want to play hide and seek. With SFB style Disruptors this just isn't really workable. By the time you get cloaked your weapons are ready for another shot. Not as useful as with 3 turn arming plasmas.

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2004, 01:07:10 am »

SFC is based on SFB. SFB is based on TOS. TOS Klingons didn't have cloaks. The "Y" ships (and the Miranda) were added by Taldren from the movies, along with photons on Klingon ships, (to my knowledge) and aren't from SFB, as the rest of the ships are. In SFB you can add/purchase a cloak for any ship. It comes at a 20% bpv surcharge, IIRC. Arming/charging cost is 2/3 of your total warp engine power (or 2/3 of your total impulse power if you turn your warp engines off). As was stated, the cloak is most usefull though with longer arming cycle weapons. Most races don't realise a benefit that's equivalent to the cost.

Jaeih t`Radaik · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2004, 05:46:49 am »

Hi KF,

I never thought of it that way before, but your assertion that the Klingon cloaking device is not in widespread use until the Mid/Late-2280's make a lot of sense. It also fits beautifully into my SFB-to-Starfleet/Klingon Academy timeline.

I think that the B'rel and K't'inga classes are new construction for the 2270's (TMP movie era), and so are fitted with the cloaking device as standard, since the technology exchange with the Roms in the Mid-2260's. However, most Klingon captains are till distrustful of it and don't use it even when they can - especially if they have a powerful vessel like a battlecruiser. The Starfleet Academy (2288) booklet said that not all the Klingon D7's had been retrofitted with the cloaking device yet (D-7 and D-7A models in the game), and by Klingon Academy (2290) all new construction ships were fitted with it and most older ones would have it too.

The TOS Klingon mind-set wouldn't allow them to use the cloaking device until it had proven itself over the years, and the 20 years in between would show them the value of it,

Just my take, but I'm basically agreeing with you.

I am, as ever,

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #33 on:** February 11, 2004, 08:13:32 am »

CyberHank, theres a minute and a half of the battle that we know almost nothing about, cept that they lost one ship, and the Amar got hit. What if they did cloak during that time, only to find that their cloak didnt work against V'Ger, who deftly plucked one of them out while they were cloaked and digitized them. Engaging the cloak probably would not have helped the Amar. Retreating from the battle, despite that the opponent was the size of a Solar System, had prolly left a bad taste in his mouth. My question though, is why didn't they just go to warp?

On another note, the D7T does not have a cloak in SFCII, but too many times ive seen that ship up against a Light Cruiser in a Random battle. The D7T has almost the same firepower as a Federation Command Cruiser, yet its BPV places it in the Light Cruiser range. Adding a Cloak, for another 20% of its BPV might just push it into the Heavy Cruiser range, where it will still be able to compete, since after all, it is a Heavy Cruiser.

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 11, 2004, 11:19:25 am »

Question???

According to what you said that SFB has fast firing disruptors, shouldn't SFC have it as well, you guys mention that SFC = SFB so why isnt the disrutpors like Bridgecommander

adam out

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 11, 2004, 01:47:15 pm »

ohhhhh, I get it, ok, then its the photons that are slow like hell lol lol

Has anyone ever wondered that the some weapons are to fast, I like to see the photons hit and the disruptors hit the shields, makes the game more fun, and that hellbore, way to fast, i wish there was a way to slow it down just a notch

and dont tell me to make the game go slower with the speed slider, thats lame lol

adam out

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Topic: Why don't the larger Klingon ships cloak? (Read 8139 times)