Topic: What is GAW

[Sniper]

I read it in Erik his post and I'm to lazy   to check if someone asked it in the same thread (that is 141 posts long)  

[Stormbringer]

GAW+galaxies at War. A hypthetical follow on game with campaigns from the beginning ofthe trek time line to beyond theTNG/ voayager era. It was hoped to include Much SFB based hooks including extragalactic races such as the Tholians, Andromedans and a few others. THe SFB hardcore enthusiasts have been waiting for such a game forever. (Including me)

[FireSoul]

Beyond TNG?
.. sorry .. I don't think so.

Continuation of the storyline in an SFB setting? Definitely.

.. well.. don't flame back, there's no point: I have been buying SFC1, 2 and OP because it's SFB-based. SFC3 completely turned me off because it wasn't SFB at all, and thus I didn't buy it. GAW would have to be SFB based to interest me..
.. and TNG would just plain kill it ..

In a way I express my approval on IRC:
SFB++
SFC_without_SFB--

-- Luc
FireSoul

[James Formo]

Something like this could be modded into SFC/OP.  It could run sfb, TOS-TNG  by including all ships and adjusting the date they can appear.  The amount of modding would be massive.

[FireSoul]

SFC:OP's weapons can't be modded. All weapons are coded directly into the .EXE, I believe.

..
-- Luc

[Stormbringer]

Flame back?   By beyond TNG I mean the voyager an immediate post voyager period. Some would include this in the TNG era. I do not. IIRC; SFC III occurs after Voyager returns home.

[FireSoul]

Aww well you know..
.. I'm a strong supporter of SFB material.

-- Luc

[James Formo]

Quote:
SFC:OP's weapons can't be modded. All weapons are coded directly into the .EXE, I believe.

..
-- Luc  

Good point. What I meant is that it could be done as far as adding all the ships. As far as changing weaponry as you progressed. Thats a sticker.  Myself- I like the variet of the different era ships and am not too concerned if the ships are loaded out by specs.  

Still there is room for weapon changes as you progess. If you limited what type of phasers early ships could have. Maybe no early ships would have photons at all.  Still your stuck with whats in game.

I may try to do something like this for myself on a smaller scale. Each race have 6 ships per era.  3 eras.  8 races.

hmm 6 x 3 x 8        144 total ships.  Not too big.  

 

[Stormbringer]

Sure. But There is no reason TNG ships cannot fit into the SFB frame work. Heck, it was already done in SFC I, SFC 2 and OP by modders. The question about weapons operating differently isn't a strong one in my opinion.  Right now, there is no better framework for a trek simulation than SFB. And to your SFB preferences, the plots in the Trek franchise may be (mostly) smarmy but the ships are cool. Why not use 'em.  


Actually, on further consideration, the Galaxy class ship looks like a pregnant whale (It's a terrible design). And the Idea of taking thousands of dependants into harms way is blatantly stupid. No advanced space faring society would even consider it. But as bad as that was starwars was even stupider when it came to futuristic tech:

 In fact, one of the things that galled me about Star Wars tech was the up to 100,000 of thousands of crew on each of thousands of big ships. One ship (worth the entire economic output of a civilisation for hundreds of years ) destroyed equals tens of thousands of highly trained (and such training costs money) crewers. Combat ships have a logical upper limit in size for economical and logistical reasons if not physical ones. Finally, Folks; my  military training cost the goverment over 100,000 dollars in real life so far, and I am not that special. It takes money to train, money to feed, cloth, equip and transport personnel around. And it takes time to train a crewman, let alone a leader.  

[Demandred]

Well, the really big ships in Star Wars were owned by the Empire which had every planet in the galaxy to conscript and get revenue from so people and money wouldn't have been a problem. As for leaders, out of millions of troops you are sure to get some with leadership qualities.

[Corbomite]

GAW stands for God Awful Whinning, which is all we seem to hear these days.

"Where's my patch? Where's my patch?"

"My game is broken, I need a patch!"

"The new patch is broken, I need a patch for the patch!"

"My jeans have a hole in them, I need a patch!"

"I can't quit smoking, I need a patch!"

"My dog Patch ran away. Have you seen him? Here Patch, here Patch!"

And so on.

[Sniper]

Not to forget "What is GAW, patch my knowledge"
Thanks for the info.  

[Stormbringer]

In a military organization, there is more to leadership than ambition, charisma and so on. The leader must have a sound understanding of Tactics, Battlefield Operational Systems, Logistics, his units equipment, psychology, administration and many other things as well. Anyone can lead people into a debacle, few can lead to success. Military organizations develop and train thier leaders and don't rely on natural selection, it's far too costly -not only in economic terms but in terms of victory. The US Army has a stepped learship training program called NCOES: Primary Leadership Development Course at SPeCialist to SGT level, Basic Noncommisioned Officer Course at the SGT to Staff Sergeant level, Advanced Non-Commisioned Officer Course at the Staff Sergeant to Sergeant First Class Level, First Sergeants Academy at Master Sergeant to First Sergeant level and the Sergeants Major Academy for Sergent Major Level. There is a similar program for officers even though they all begin with at least a bachelor's degree in military science. Most advanced nations have similar programs, though america's is acknowledged as the best in the world and many send thier leaders to our training facilities whenever possible. The natural selection part is that unless you show apptitude for leadership you do not get selected for promotion and attendance to even the beginning rung of the training ladder. Also on parallel with the leadership training are stepped Occupational skill technical training in four (five) levels. level 10,20,30, 40 and sometime 50. Level ten is the level required for basic proficiency in a skill field (for example; how to set up, operate, and march-order an Artillery locating RADAR system) level 20 is for SGTs or team leaders, level thirty is for section chiefs/ squad leaders and level forty is for SFCs-platoon SGTS. Level fifty is for company,battery, battalion or above  leaders. Each one requires additional proficiency in the levels below as well as new proficiencies in more complicated tasks. at one level you can operate at the next level, operate, troobleshoot, and so on. Eventually you are the person advising a commander as to what your type of equipment and troops can do, where they should be doing it, how and so on based on complex technical and tactical considerations such as what his mission and concept of operations is.

Even with the wealth of an entire galaxy, one couldn't field the type of navy shown in star wars. One star destroyer has thousands of technical and tactical positions requiring expert level proficiency. The fighter jocks don't just jump into a cockpit and rev 'er up. The ship itself costs billions of credits/dollars/ whatever. It takes months or years to build the ship. It takes time to train the crew. It takes time to run a shakedown of the ship. The ancilliary equipment and supplies including consumables all cost  huge amounts. Trooper armor, arms, commo gear medical gear and other field gear. Support ships and fighters and so on. Logistical support personnel and facilities not even aboard the ship also cost big and are effected by the fate of the ship. Finally, stategic planning requiring  the health of the ship are destroyed along with the ship should it become a causualty as other ships must be diverted if the task was critical.  

[Sniper]

I read it in Erik his post and I'm to lazy   to check if someone asked it in the same thread (that is 141 posts long)  

[Stormbringer]

GAW+galaxies at War. A hypthetical follow on game with campaigns from the beginning ofthe trek time line to beyond theTNG/ voayager era. It was hoped to include Much SFB based hooks including extragalactic races such as the Tholians, Andromedans and a few others. THe SFB hardcore enthusiasts have been waiting for such a game forever. (Including me)

[FireSoul]

Beyond TNG?
.. sorry .. I don't think so.

Continuation of the storyline in an SFB setting? Definitely.

.. well.. don't flame back, there's no point: I have been buying SFC1, 2 and OP because it's SFB-based. SFC3 completely turned me off because it wasn't SFB at all, and thus I didn't buy it. GAW would have to be SFB based to interest me..
.. and TNG would just plain kill it ..

In a way I express my approval on IRC:
SFB++
SFC_without_SFB--

-- Luc
FireSoul

[James Formo]

Something like this could be modded into SFC/OP.  It could run sfb, TOS-TNG  by including all ships and adjusting the date they can appear.  The amount of modding would be massive.

[FireSoul]

SFC:OP's weapons can't be modded. All weapons are coded directly into the .EXE, I believe.

..
-- Luc

[Stormbringer]

Flame back?   By beyond TNG I mean the voyager an immediate post voyager period. Some would include this in the TNG era. I do not. IIRC; SFC III occurs after Voyager returns home.

[FireSoul]

Aww well you know..
.. I'm a strong supporter of SFB material.

-- Luc

[James Formo]

Quote:
SFC:OP's weapons can't be modded. All weapons are coded directly into the .EXE, I believe.

..
-- Luc  

Good point. What I meant is that it could be done as far as adding all the ships. As far as changing weaponry as you progressed. Thats a sticker.  Myself- I like the variet of the different era ships and am not too concerned if the ships are loaded out by specs.  

Still there is room for weapon changes as you progess. If you limited what type of phasers early ships could have. Maybe no early ships would have photons at all.  Still your stuck with whats in game.

I may try to do something like this for myself on a smaller scale. Each race have 6 ships per era.  3 eras.  8 races.

hmm 6 x 3 x 8        144 total ships.  Not too big.  

 

[Stormbringer]

Sure. But There is no reason TNG ships cannot fit into the SFB frame work. Heck, it was already done in SFC I, SFC 2 and OP by modders. The question about weapons operating differently isn't a strong one in my opinion.  Right now, there is no better framework for a trek simulation than SFB. And to your SFB preferences, the plots in the Trek franchise may be (mostly) smarmy but the ships are cool. Why not use 'em.  


Actually, on further consideration, the Galaxy class ship looks like a pregnant whale (It's a terrible design). And the Idea of taking thousands of dependants into harms way is blatantly stupid. No advanced space faring society would even consider it. But as bad as that was starwars was even stupider when it came to futuristic tech:

 In fact, one of the things that galled me about Star Wars tech was the up to 100,000 of thousands of crew on each of thousands of big ships. One ship (worth the entire economic output of a civilisation for hundreds of years ) destroyed equals tens of thousands of highly trained (and such training costs money) crewers. Combat ships have a logical upper limit in size for economical and logistical reasons if not physical ones. Finally, Folks; my  military training cost the goverment over 100,000 dollars in real life so far, and I am not that special. It takes money to train, money to feed, cloth, equip and transport personnel around. And it takes time to train a crewman, let alone a leader.  

[Demandred]

Well, the really big ships in Star Wars were owned by the Empire which had every planet in the galaxy to conscript and get revenue from so people and money wouldn't have been a problem. As for leaders, out of millions of troops you are sure to get some with leadership qualities.

[Corbomite]

GAW stands for God Awful Whinning, which is all we seem to hear these days.

"Where's my patch? Where's my patch?"

"My game is broken, I need a patch!"

"The new patch is broken, I need a patch for the patch!"

"My jeans have a hole in them, I need a patch!"

"I can't quit smoking, I need a patch!"

"My dog Patch ran away. Have you seen him? Here Patch, here Patch!"

And so on.

[Sniper]

Not to forget "What is GAW, patch my knowledge"
Thanks for the info.  

[Stormbringer]

In a military organization, there is more to leadership than ambition, charisma and so on. The leader must have a sound understanding of Tactics, Battlefield Operational Systems, Logistics, his units equipment, psychology, administration and many other things as well. Anyone can lead people into a debacle, few can lead to success. Military organizations develop and train thier leaders and don't rely on natural selection, it's far too costly -not only in economic terms but in terms of victory. The US Army has a stepped learship training program called NCOES: Primary Leadership Development Course at SPeCialist to SGT level, Basic Noncommisioned Officer Course at the SGT to Staff Sergeant level, Advanced Non-Commisioned Officer Course at the Staff Sergeant to Sergeant First Class Level, First Sergeants Academy at Master Sergeant to First Sergeant level and the Sergeants Major Academy for Sergent Major Level. There is a similar program for officers even though they all begin with at least a bachelor's degree in military science. Most advanced nations have similar programs, though america's is acknowledged as the best in the world and many send thier leaders to our training facilities whenever possible. The natural selection part is that unless you show apptitude for leadership you do not get selected for promotion and attendance to even the beginning rung of the training ladder. Also on parallel with the leadership training are stepped Occupational skill technical training in four (five) levels. level 10,20,30, 40 and sometime 50. Level ten is the level required for basic proficiency in a skill field (for example; how to set up, operate, and march-order an Artillery locating RADAR system) level 20 is for SGTs or team leaders, level thirty is for section chiefs/ squad leaders and level forty is for SFCs-platoon SGTS. Level fifty is for company,battery, battalion or above  leaders. Each one requires additional proficiency in the levels below as well as new proficiencies in more complicated tasks. at one level you can operate at the next level, operate, troobleshoot, and so on. Eventually you are the person advising a commander as to what your type of equipment and troops can do, where they should be doing it, how and so on based on complex technical and tactical considerations such as what his mission and concept of operations is.

Even with the wealth of an entire galaxy, one couldn't field the type of navy shown in star wars. One star destroyer has thousands of technical and tactical positions requiring expert level proficiency. The fighter jocks don't just jump into a cockpit and rev 'er up. The ship itself costs billions of credits/dollars/ whatever. It takes months or years to build the ship. It takes time to train the crew. It takes time to run a shakedown of the ship. The ancilliary equipment and supplies including consumables all cost  huge amounts. Trooper armor, arms, commo gear medical gear and other field gear. Support ships and fighters and so on. Logistical support personnel and facilities not even aboard the ship also cost big and are effected by the fate of the ship. Finally, stategic planning requiring  the health of the ship are destroyed along with the ship should it become a causualty as other ships must be diverted if the task was critical.