Topic: Berman going? Let it be true (Read 8800 times)

Magnum357 · « **Reply #60 on:** February 25, 2004, 01:20:22 am »

Ya, I agree Nanner. Maybe doing a prequel was not a bad idea, but Beavus and Butt head adding the Time crap/Temperal Cold war and no regard too Star Trek Consistancy, was a bad idea on their part. I heard a couple of years ago that B&B only added the Time stuff because one of them wanted too make a Sifi show off of the idea, but Paramount wouldn't agree with the idea I guess. What a horrible way for someone too produce a product off another proven design, using Star Trek too propel their idea of another Sifi show. Pathetic!

As for Sulu and the Excelcior, it would have been great, but I bet it would have been difficult too pull off and not confuse your average TV veiwer that this is actually years before the TNG era and the ships/tech is not quite as advanced. No doubt the core audience would have loved it, but the casual fan would most likely be confused.

And I agree with most, the Excelcior Class is one of the my favorite ships. Its probably why I like the Ent-E too because I heard that some elements of the Soverign design are actually based off of the old Excelciors.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #61 on:** February 25, 2004, 02:08:07 am »

I agree. First Contact is going to be the post TMP movie that everyone will bother watching, because it's the most human. That's one issue I actually had with a lot of TNG was that it was very stiff, imo, but did have it's moments. I actually preferred some of DS9. It's funny though, because when you think about it TNG started out with the scantily clad counselor out of starfleet uniform, didn't it? Although TNG did seem to turn into a soap opera after a while. B&B are amazing hacks who have a pretty limited number of ideas and won't even risk moving outside the small zone in which their imaginations reside, and that's one of the reasons Trek is in the situation it's in. The Trek universe is pretty large and diverse, but they only have the same ideas over and over. (BTW, I loathe the TNG romulans. Those stupid head ridges make no sense at all, not sure who's idea that was, but I wouldn't put it past Berman just to do something different than TOS).

It's also possible to have young people without having it be sexual. It just means that they could be young and pleasing to look at, along with older mentor figures in command. Sulu could make a pretty good Captain.

And let's talk techno babble. Ugh! It's all nice and good if it's in the background, but when you use it to solve every issue it's not good. It's bad writing, plain and simple, and I believe it also may alienate the average viewer, as they couldn't care less about a 10 minute sequence on realligning the warp coils. That's not really what good Sci-fi is about anyway. It's about the human spirit and how even in the future it's that very same spirit that get's things done. They don't solve the problems by being human and figuring a way out anymore, they use the magic reconfigure/reallign button and suddenly everything is solved, yet another reason that modern Trek bothers me. If it was so easy to amp up the power of the phasers and sensors then why wasn't it done before. Just suddenly in the middle of a battle "Hmmm, Captain, I think if I shift power from the main sensor array and route it into the secondary phaser coupling I can increase phaser output by 200%, should I do it?" Grrrr. Would it be so bad to maybe lose a battle, maybe have to run once in a while, as long as the war is won (meaning the end of the overall plot) perhaps you could show more character growth through a loss. Heck, Spock died, and even though they brought him back it was about losing a battle (spock dying) but then winning the in the end (bringing him back), and you actually got a lot more development out of the character than if you had them sitting around the lounge on the ship discussing stuff, they did everything on the move, and that's yet another thing that made it more interesting.

Cleaven · « **Reply #62 on:** February 25, 2004, 04:30:36 am »

I wonder how fans would react to a new series of animated Star Trek, with new actors playing Kirk, Spock etc. I believe there are a stack of scripts still lying around.

TOCXOBearslayer · « **Reply #63 on:** February 25, 2004, 04:56:58 am »

Yep, some very correct answers here....

Look at B5.... it was plot driven by the characters. Not the technology.

Hell, B6 reruns were kicking DS9's butt so bad that Paramount ended up copying B5 and making the series something more than a string of one hour solutions.

The prequel or a post TMP series could have been great with good characters and good plots. Unforutnately, it is too tech driven.....

Raniz Murjuri · « **Reply #64 on:** February 25, 2004, 05:28:33 am »

i'm really not impressed with the whole deal.

If Berman would have got off his Fat Arse, and did things the way they should have..
I was looking forward to watching the Past lead up to the future, in the Enterprise Series.
Not the Past evoloving into something other than Kirk,Spock,Riker,Data,picard,Worf,Janeway..Ect..Ect..Ect..

I'm inclinded to think Enerprise has killed off the future to make it's own future, One without all the guys we grew up with.

I watch episode after episode.. and there's just too many things.. that dont coincide with the future as we know Trek
It started off by using a Akira Class Ship in a Time when it wasn't even on the drawing board.
Next.. I dont remeber the Vulcans Not Helping the federation in anyway shape or form.

Why is Berman not focused on Klingons? and how there came to be a War with them?
Why is he not focused on the Federation Expansion and space boundries?
Where does the Enterprise fly anyways? Cant be federation space.. they just got into space exploration.
Why is he not focused on the Plight of the Federations Call to The universe?

Poor guy is too busy fighting a Tech war that didn't happen yet.

2 years of running this Series.. and only 2 past tense Races are used besides the Vulcans.

They need to replace Berman with Shatner and the writers with older scripts.
Why Shatner?
Because he was the Start of Rodenberry's Dream. I believe Shatner would replace the show with the actual story line.

Pestalence · « **Reply #65 on:** February 25, 2004, 05:44:30 am »

Quote:

i'm really not impressed with the whole deal.

If Berman would have got off his Fat Arse, and did things the way they should have..
I was looking forward to watching the Past lead up to the future, in the Enterprise Series.
Not the Past evoloving into something other than Kirk,Spock,Riker,Data,picard,Worf,Janeway..Ect..Ect..Ect..

I'm inclinded to think Enerprise has killed off the future to make it's own future, One without all the guys we grew up with.

I watch episode after episode.. and there's just too many things.. that dont coincide with the future as we know Trek
It started off by using a Akira Class Ship in a Time when it wasn't even on the drawing board.
Next.. I dont remeber the Vulcans Not Helping the federation in anyway shape or form.

Why is Berman not focused on Klingons? and how there came to be a War with them?
Why is he not focused on the Federation Expansion and space boundries?
Where does the Enterprise fly anyways? Cant be federation space.. they just got into space exploration.
Why is he not focused on the Plight of the Federations Call to The universe?

Poor guy is too busy fighting a Tech war that didn't happen yet.

2 years of running this Series.. and only 2 past tense Races are used besides the Vulcans.

They need to replace Berman with Shatner and the writers with older scripts.
Why Shatner?
Because he was the Start of Rodenberry's Dream. I believe Shatner would replace the show with the actual story line.

Or even Leonard Nemoy... He directed several TMP era movies..

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #68 on:** February 25, 2004, 12:36:43 pm »

Shatner has an imagination?

I've read his trek releated books, except for the last one, and found them to be bland. And of course, he is SOOOO full of himself. I would not want to see him in charge of any Star Trek franchise, for he will try to find a way to put Kirk in the series, and Kirk in the Enterprise era would actually be worse than what B&B are doing now.

Berman needs to go, but Shatner is not the person to replace him. Nimoy on the other hand, he might actually make the Vulcans finally start ACTING like Vulcans.

TheSatyr · « **Reply #69 on:** February 25, 2004, 01:33:18 pm »

Bring in Shatner and Nimoy. Those two are still close friends. Between them they might be able to save the franchise.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #70 on:** February 25, 2004, 02:33:27 pm »

that would be cool.

feargusf · « **Reply #71 on:** February 25, 2004, 07:13:25 pm »

Both Shatner and Nimoy directed TMP era movies. The difference is that Nimoy's are watchable, while Shatner's is The Final Frontier.

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #72 on:** February 25, 2004, 09:35:14 pm »

I'd rather Paramount turn over the script writing duties to people like Larry Niven, Gene Wolfe, Sharon K. Penman, George R. R. Martin, and even Harlan Ellison. (Note I said "people like this", as these specific authors would not likely be interested.)

Established, professional authors with a strong talent for building characters and telling a story. Authors who can convey a pioneer spirit. Authors who can establish a society that would work in a colonial-era.

That's the sort of thing Roddenberry did with the scripts for TOS. I've no idea which toothpase factory the current Enterprise authors were hired from.

-S'Cipio

Merlinfmct87 · « **Reply #75 on:** February 27, 2004, 06:59:21 am »

DS9? Plot? HUH? All that ever happened was they let the prophets work or tried to marry each other or mope about dead people.

Now Voyager has some serious bones...the character's had well...Character!

Plus there wern't any god-figures around to save the day.

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #77 on:** February 27, 2004, 08:32:24 am »

If Enterprise is going to continue beyond the fourth season, and do a Romulan War, there needs to be another Alien captain developed, Jeffery Combs playing Shran is wonderful, he will surely represent the Andorians during the Romulan War. But we havent seen hide nor hair of any Tellarite or Rigelian military commanders. Berman and Braga can't seem to make a Vulcan act like a Vulcan, so as long as they are in charge we're going to be thinking that every Vulcan we see is really a Romulan Spy. (Wouldn't surprise me a bit if Soval really was)

Leonard Nimoy is considered by many in the Trek circles as the father of Vulcan. During the Original Series, everyone who played a Vulcan went to Leonard for "How to Act like a Vulcan" Lessons. That continues into the movies as well, Leonard helped Curtis (the second Saavik) master the emotionless face even when faced with something as traumatic as having to say "Admiral, David is dead." A far cry from what Alley was able to do when Scotty brought his nephew onto the Bridge is ST II. (Which DC jumped all over to explain it as Saavik is half Romulan)

ganymad · « **Reply #78 on:** February 27, 2004, 09:29:42 am »

i agree that berman should go. dont get me wrong - i dont hate the new show.if u take it out of the star trek line its even quit a good show(a good episode is when archer isnt captured LOL;) ).However.i had a chat with a friend of mine shortly before enterprise got on air. we were talking about the new series and we agreed each other that enterprise would do damage to the star trek we know. we talked about other ideas. well, a sulu/excelsior series would have been great.(i have to say that im a tmp era fan). but why not a enterprise b series?sure the captain is far from being a perfect captain but even pike and picard needed some time to work things out. it would be possible to show all the things that happened between tmp and tng.
another idea was no series but tv movies. sure - its quit hard to work out the characters in a single movie or 2, but it would still be better than enterprise. or maybe a series from the viewpoint of the klingons or romulans.it wouldnt be sooo "human" but it would open quit some new perspectives.

my vote: enterprise B series with appearences of sulu or scott. that would kick ass.
but if they (b and b) had made such a series we would only see the same things we have seen before and the ships would all be butugly kitbashes like some in tng.

my 2 cents

FFZ · « **Reply #79 on:** February 27, 2004, 11:26:26 am »

My favorite subject, the two jerks who have been killing Trek for years! These two seem intent on doing the hellishly horrible Voyager over and over, they recreated 7 of 9 with T'Pol, sent the Enterprise off on a 'quest' where it can't get help (how Delta quadrant of them) and made sure that they destroy all the tenants of TOS, starting with the Vulcans.

Look at some examples. Spock tells Kirk flatly in one episodes "Vulcans would not cryout so" in reguards to Kirk wanting to rescue Surak who he believes is being tortured(episode "The Savage Curtain"). Voyager went out of its way to have an episode where Tuvok cries like a little [bleep] when tortured. Spock makes it plain that all Vulcans have the mental ability to meld with each other, and often do so. Enterprise goes out of its way to have an episode where this is considered 'mental rape' and says only 10% of Vulcans have the ability. If the Vulcans are such big allies of the humans, why don't they deploy some of their obviously superior ships in the SOL system to protect earth while the humans send their ONLY warp five ship on a basic wild goose chase? The answer is easy, the Xindi threat would be the joke it is, since the Vulcans would vaporize the Xindi before they got close to Earth. And that is just the Vulcans.

Ever notice that in 'Enterprise,' the Humans are actually hopelessly inferior to everybody else they meet? Every race can beat the ship in warp speed. They even showed that the Klingons have 23rd century tech already (transporters, weapons systems, ect. How did the humans survive a war when being so backward?) They even placed Earth and Q'nos within five days of each other, which means the neutral zone in the movies would have to be outside of Pluto's orbit. How stupid is that?

Then they add the old stand bys, episodes where they have to use flashlights (my wife noticed this, nearly half the shows are shot on dark soundstages, even the ship's interior is dismally lit, and I would be damned depressed living forever in twilight!) When they aern't doing this, they use dream future seqeunces, or some future boy drops in to provide whatever plot motivation is missing.

Even in the little things they are lame, like movie night. It seems only 20th century movies are popular on that ship.

OK, rant is over.

BTW, a Sulu show's time is past now. A fresh start in the same era could work, with a whole new ship name, and a new attitude, like giving us hope for the future, like Kirk and company did.

But unless they completely overhaul the show, this will go down as the most dreadful Trek of all, and considering their are 7 years of Voyager, that is saying something.

News:

Topic: Berman going? Let it be true (Read 8800 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Magnum357

EmeraldEdge

Cleaven

TOCXOBearslayer

Raniz Murjuri

Pestalence

Sirgod

STARBUCK081771

Lieutenant_Q

TheSatyr

NannerSlug

feargusf

Scipio_66

Sirgod

davers42

Merlinfmct87

TOCXOBearslayer

Lieutenant_Q

ganymad

FFZ

Topic: Berman going? Let it be true (Read 8800 times)