Topic: Berman going? Let it be true

[Sirgod]

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Kirk did get it briefly, if you read the DC Comics series of that time. It's not canon, but it was pretty cool.

I would also love to see the Sulu/Excelsior series, but I doubt it will happen. Would have been a great idea ten years ago. I bet it would have been waaaaaaay better than Voyager. 20/20 hindsight. George Takei will not appeal to a young audience, and that's what Viacom covets.    

That actually sounds Very Familier, Didn't he Take the Excelsior from Himself in the Mirror universe? I seem to recall him being in a bar at the Mirror universe , and trying to act like a Barbarian while watching a couple of Combatants in a pit. Man that was along time ago, Not as long as the GoldKey comics where, But still.

Stephen

[STARBUCK081771]

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i'm really not impressed with the whole deal.

If Berman would have got off his Fat Arse, and did things the way they should have..
I was looking forward to watching the Past lead up to the future, in the Enterprise Series.
Not the Past evoloving into something other than Kirk,Spock,Riker,Data,picard,Worf,Janeway..Ect..Ect..Ect..

I'm inclinded to think Enerprise has killed off the future to make it's own future, One without all the guys we grew up with.

I watch episode after episode.. and there's just too many things.. that dont coincide with the future as we know Trek
It started off by using a Akira Class Ship in a Time when it wasn't even on the drawing board.
Next.. I dont remeber the Vulcans Not Helping the federation in anyway shape or form.

Why is Berman not focused on Klingons? and how there came to be a War with them?
Why is he not focused on the Federation Expansion and space boundries?
Where does the Enterprise fly anyways? Cant be federation space.. they just got into space exploration.
Why is he not focused on the Plight of the Federations Call to The universe?

Poor guy is too busy fighting a Tech war that didn't happen yet.

2 years of running this Series.. and only 2 past tense Races are used besides the Vulcans.

They need to replace Berman with Shatner and the writers with older scripts.
Why Shatner?
Because he was the Start of Rodenberry's Dream. I believe Shatner would replace the show with the actual story line.  

Or even Leonard Nemoy... He directed several TMP era movies..

 

Yes but how many books did Nemoy write dedicated to trek to show he has an actual imagination?  

[Lieutenant_Q]

Shatner has an imagination?

I've read his trek releated books, except for the last one, and found them to be bland.  And of course, he is SOOOO full of himself.  I would not want to see him in charge of any Star Trek franchise, for he will try to find a way to put Kirk in the series, and Kirk in the Enterprise era would actually be worse than what B&B are doing now.

Berman needs to go, but Shatner is not the person to replace him.  Nimoy on the other hand, he might actually make the Vulcans finally start ACTING like Vulcans.    

[TheSatyr]

Bring in Shatner and Nimoy. Those two are still close friends. Between them they might be able to save the franchise.

[NannerSlug]

that would be cool.
 

[feargusf]

Both Shatner and Nimoy directed TMP era movies. The difference is that Nimoy's are watchable, while Shatner's is The Final Frontier.  

[Scipio_66]

I'd rather Paramount turn over the script writing duties to people like Larry Niven, Gene Wolfe, Sharon K. Penman, George R. R. Martin, and even Harlan Ellison.  (Note I said "people like this", as these specific authors would not likely be interested.)

Established, professional authors with a strong talent for building characters and telling a story.  Authors who can convey a pioneer spirit.  Authors who can establish a society that would work in a colonial-era.  

That's the sort of thing Roddenberry did with the scripts for TOS.  I've no idea which toothpase factory the current Enterprise authors were hired from.

-S'Cipio

[Sirgod]

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I'd rather Paramount turn over the script writing duties to people like Larry Niven, Gene Wolfe, Sharon K. Penman, George R. R. Martin, and even Harlan Ellison.  (Note I said "people like this", as these specific authors would not likely be interested.)

Established, professional authors with a strong talent for building characters and telling a story.  Authors who can convey a pioneer spirit.  Authors who can establish a society that would work in a colonial-era.  

That's the sort of thing Roddenberry did with the scripts for TOS.  I've no idea which toothpase factory the current Enterprise authors were hired from.

-S'Cipio  

that raises a good Thought experiment s'cipio. who do you thnk would right the Worst ST episode?

I'm thinking stephen R. Donaldson, or possibly Ann Macaffrey. I just don't see them as being able to Do It in the proper quirky way.

Stephen

[davers42]

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.. now what has made some of the more successful trek stuff.. whether its the later part of DS9, or the TNG story lines.. (or TOS stuff/TMP movies) was all about character driven conflict/resolutions - think about it.. some of the best eppisodes have the LEAST technobabble involved - and used.. or at very least that technobabble stuff is kept to where you dont notice it.

Hey Nanner, I heartly agree!  But as a DS9 fan, I'll have to say that character driven conflict/resolution storylines were there from start.  The aftermath of the Cardassian occupation on Bajor opened up fresh storylines.  Stories that dealt with revenge and forgiveness, politics and religion.  Once the Dominion story arc started, the show really  took off, creating more conflict and drama across two quadrants and added two more essential elements of Trek:  interaction with non-humans and huge space battles.  All of this was due to the creative force of Ira Behr and Mike Pillar.  Berman and Braga were busy with the last season of TNG, and then started working on Voyager by DS9's second season.  My friends and I still wonder how the Trek franchise would be if the DS9 folks had taken over.

Daver

[Merlinfmct87]

DS9? Plot? HUH? All that ever happened was they let the prophets work or tried to marry each other or mope about dead people.

   Now Voyager has some serious bones...the character's had well...Character!

    Plus there wern't any god-figures around to save the day.  

[TOCXOBearslayer]

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   Now Voyager has some serious bones...the character's had well...Character!

   You funny!!!  

[Lieutenant_Q]

If Enterprise is going to continue beyond the fourth season, and do a Romulan War, there needs to be another Alien captain developed, Jeffery Combs playing Shran is wonderful, he will surely represent the Andorians during the Romulan War.  But we havent seen hide nor hair of any Tellarite or Rigelian military commanders.  Berman and Braga can't seem to make a Vulcan act like a Vulcan, so as long as they are in charge we're going to be thinking that every Vulcan we see is really a Romulan Spy.  (Wouldn't surprise me a bit if Soval really was)

Leonard Nimoy is considered by many in the Trek circles as the father of Vulcan.  During the Original Series, everyone who played a Vulcan went to Leonard for "How to Act like a Vulcan" Lessons.  That continues into the movies as well, Leonard helped Curtis (the second Saavik) master the emotionless face even when faced with something as traumatic as having to say "Admiral, David is dead."  A far cry from what Alley was able to do when Scotty brought his nephew onto the Bridge is ST II. (Which DC jumped all over to explain it as Saavik is half Romulan)  

[ganymad]

i agree that berman should go. dont get me wrong - i dont hate the new show.if u take it out of the star trek line its even quit a good show(a good episode is when archer isnt captured LOL;) ).However.i had a chat with a friend of mine shortly before enterprise got on air. we were talking about the new series and we agreed each other that enterprise would do damage to the star trek we know. we talked about other ideas. well, a sulu/excelsior series would have been great.(i have to say that im a tmp era fan). but why not a enterprise b series?sure the captain is far from being a perfect captain but even pike and picard needed some time to work things out. it would be possible to show all the things that happened between tmp and tng.
another idea was no series but tv movies. sure - its quit hard to work out the characters in a single movie or 2, but it would still be better than enterprise. or maybe a series from the viewpoint of the klingons or romulans.it wouldnt be sooo "human" but it would open quit some new perspectives.

my vote: enterprise B series with appearences of sulu or scott. that would kick ass.
but if they (b and b) had made such a series we would only see the same things we have seen before and the ships would all be butugly kitbashes like some in tng.

my 2 cents

[FFZ]

  My favorite subject, the two jerks who have been killing Trek for years! These two seem intent on doing the hellishly horrible Voyager over and over, they recreated 7 of 9 with T'Pol, sent the Enterprise off on a 'quest' where it can't get help (how Delta quadrant of them) and made sure that they destroy all the tenants of TOS, starting with the Vulcans.

Look at some examples. Spock tells Kirk flatly in one episodes "Vulcans would not cryout so" in reguards to Kirk wanting to rescue Surak who he believes is being tortured(episode "The Savage Curtain"). Voyager went out of its way to have an episode where Tuvok cries like a little [bleep] when tortured. Spock makes it plain that all Vulcans have the mental ability to meld with each other, and often do so. Enterprise goes out of its way to have an episode where this is considered 'mental rape' and says only 10% of Vulcans have the ability. If the Vulcans are such big allies of the humans, why don't they deploy some of their obviously superior ships in the SOL system to protect earth while the humans send their ONLY warp five ship on a basic wild goose chase? The answer is easy, the Xindi threat would be the joke it is, since the Vulcans would vaporize the Xindi before they got close to Earth. And that is just the Vulcans.

Ever notice that in 'Enterprise,' the Humans are actually hopelessly inferior to everybody else they meet? Every race can beat the ship in warp speed. They even showed that the Klingons have 23rd century tech already (transporters, weapons systems, ect. How did the humans survive a war when being so backward?) They even placed Earth and Q'nos within five days of each other, which means the neutral zone in the movies would have to be outside of Pluto's orbit. How stupid is that?

Then they add the old stand bys, episodes where they have to use flashlights (my wife noticed this, nearly half the shows are shot on dark soundstages, even the ship's interior is dismally lit, and I would be damned depressed living forever in twilight!) When they aern't doing this, they use dream future seqeunces, or some future boy drops in to provide whatever plot motivation is missing.

Even in the little things they are lame, like movie night. It seems only 20th century movies are popular on that ship.

OK, rant is over.

BTW, a Sulu show's time is past now. A fresh start in the same era could work, with a whole new ship name, and a new attitude, like giving us hope for the future, like Kirk and company did.

But unless they completely overhaul the show, this will go down as the most dreadful Trek of all, and considering their are 7 years of Voyager, that is saying something.      

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

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  A fresh start in the same era could work, with a whole new ship name, and a new attitude, like giving us hope for the future, like Kirk and company did.  

I think that you are only going half way.  I think that they need to discard Trek altogether and begin a whole new series.   Say a series based on a SciFi novel or series with a relatively rich backgroung.  I would suggest a novel such as Space Viking by H. Beam Piper but make the starship technology more (early) Traveller (the RPG) with smaller ships than Piper's universe had.  Since all the worlds are colonized by humans and only a few had sapient aliens (all stone age when humans encountered them first) there is less trouble with all the people looking human (and the animals being from Earth) and speaking a known language (Lingua Terra is what Piper called it).  

Since it is far enough in the future they could ignore the 21st century and not worry to much about history catching up to them.  The tech is limited because of the fall of the Federation.  All people are human or (rarely) humanoid.  All planets are Earthlike in air and gravity.  All in all much simplified (for filming and special effects) and if they used Trader/Explorers in a small ship most of the action can be on the ground with little special effects (like many Stargate episodes for example).  

For those who don't recognize Space Viking and H. Beam Piper.

The novel uses large starships (spherical minimum of 1000' diameter and 1500' - 2000' being fairly typical).  While in hyperspace there is no contact with anything outside the ship.  All battles are at sublight speeds.  No FTL communications other than messages carried by the ships themselves.  In the background Earth colonized hundreds of planets which they ruled with a Federation.  Ultimately there was a civil war, the rebel losing fleet fled and colonized far outside the Federation.  After 350 years a ship went back to the Federation and found it had fallen.  Several planets still had starships, more had interplanetary but most had become preindustrial.  The Space Vikings raided the Federation planets and began to colonize them and in the novel were slowly bringing back civilization and technology.  

IKV Nemesis resident heretic.      

[EmeraldEdge]

In otherwords, something like Firefly?  

[Mog]

I thought Firefly was great. I'd be happy with more of that. I'm also hoping for good things from Galactica.

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

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In otherwords, something like Firefly?  

Heard of it, never seen it or information on its setting.  So perhaps.    

[FFZ]

 No need to completely discard what we all know, there are enough 'blank' spots to fill pllenty of series. The main trouble I think is that the modern writers fall to easily into 'plot device' story lines, like holodecks or visitors from the future, for conflict starting and resolution.

'Enterprise' for example, could do whole episodes based around setting up a colonoy, and never have to bother with 'aleins' of any kind, a good writer could create conflict among the colonists themselves, and maybe the fleet command, they don't need it to always be some alien or 'futurboy' who drives the story.

Another factor with B&B is they always miss a trick, when they can do cool stuff. When the ship left earth to begin this stupid Xindi story line for example, she was a year old. They could have repainted her white and given her an NCC-01 on her hull, as a tip of the hat to the old timers and a link to the future. No, not B&B, they want to jump to the 24th century and that stupid time cop idea they had.

They disgust me.    

[IKV Nemesis D7L]

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 No need to completely discard what we all know, there are enough 'blank' spots to fill pllenty of series. The main trouble I think is that the modern writers fall to easily into 'plot device' story lines, like holodecks or visitors from the future, for conflict starting and resolution.    

I agree that there are many areas that could be filled in.  However the "series" has been going on a very long time and continuity has become successively flawed.  First Contact for example conflicts with TOS in that in TOS Cochrane was "of Alpha Centauri" and only in his 30's when he invented warp drive.  Also Riker described the moon in a way that indicated clearly that it was terraformed, in DS9 a cadet from the moon mentions having to go outside in a space suit.  Which is it?  Not to mention the Eugenics wars in the 1990s.   Then there are the racial changes, Bonehead vs TOS Klingons, totally changed in appearance AND culture.  If the culture were not changed the appearance change would have been more accepted.  The Enterprise rewritten Vulcans are another example.  

At this point I think it would be very difficult to do a series that would not alienate a significant portion of the audience(s).   The old TOS Guard vs TNG fans vs DS9 vs Voyager.  Each group has its own expectations of how the Trek Universe should be portrayed and though there is overlap they are different.

Going back to a new beginning avoids all that  and allows a clean start.  It also could be done by someone other than Paramount.   Many here have given Babylon 5 the credit for rejuvenating DS9.  A "Space Viking" series could do the same for Trek as a whole.  With the added advantage of gaining another series with many of the desired qualities of Trek and a 2nd chance to see it "done right".

Fire Fly movie in the works  perhaps this could lead to a new series and be the cause of a rejuvenated B&B free Trek.  Must consider getting the DVDs (I did give a copy to a friend as a Christmas present though).