Topic: Berman going? Let it be true (Read 8939 times)

Aoav160 · « **on:** January 30, 2004, 08:15:45 pm »

http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Television&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=&obj_id=40707

Still unconfirmed but it would be nice

Magnum357 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2004, 12:24:34 am »

Well, its still just a rumor. Berman should have never have tried too do a "Star Wars" and make a prequel series. Just too complicated, and too easy too alienate fans that way. Even Star Wars alienated a few Star Wars fans when Episode 1 came out.

Age · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2004, 04:49:33 pm »

I 'll second that Magnums357 .I still wished thet would bring everybodys favourite Captian back to life yes Captian James T Kirk.He was and still is the best he broke all the rules and just think we would not of had Orion Pirates without his piece of action.He broke the rules that is why we can do it to.I say thank-you Captian Kirk.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #3 on:** February 24, 2004, 05:42:00 pm »

I don't see a problem with a prequel, but they did it all wrong, disregarding everything that was supposed to happen later, and just throwing stuff out there. Bad news, when you have a hard core base of fans. News Flash: Alienating a large segment of your viewership is bad for buisness. lol.

I actually think this cast is pretty good (the best one in a long while) but the show definitely needs help. There are a fews things of interest that pop up from time to time, but they always just blow by them and scoot towards the old standby/filler plots. Oh, well. Here's hopin' B&B finally get the axe.

On a side note, it's interesting to not the filler shows, and they are bumping it to 9 in March, right when Steven King's Kingdom Hospital premieres. They just can't get away from anything in the similar genre. I wonder if Kingdom will continue to hurt it?

SL-Punisher · « **Reply #4 on:** February 24, 2004, 06:13:42 pm »

::goes back to stabbing Rick Berman voodoo doll with pins::

NannerSlug · « **Reply #5 on:** February 24, 2004, 08:47:54 pm »

doing a prequel is not a bad thing.

doing the whole temporal cold war/ time garbage/ xindi stuff is.

we want to talk more about getting back to basics.. you know - klingons, romulans, etc.. (andorians and tholians show up more frequently?)

TOCXOBearslayer · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2004, 09:17:51 pm »

Quote:

doing the whole temporal cold war/ time garbage/ xindi stuff is.

But this is what Berman wanted to do from the begining.... he wanted 'time cops' from a future Federation..... he was forced to do a prequel and added the time cops element anyways.

Fire his @$$.... they should make the Sulu/Excelsior adventures before George Takei gets to damn old....

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2004, 09:34:48 pm »

Sadly George is getting pretty old, but I'd still like to see him in action. I would have loved to see Captain Sulu and the Excelsior rather than most of the Trek series we've been given (heck, I'd rather watch that than TNG, DS9, or Voyager). It's obvious B&B do what they want, as it's always about some temporal/time something or other. They need to go, and if I were the guys in charge I would have been pretty angry when they went and did the prequel as their time traveller story instead of doing it properly.

Heck, I think some of the stuff between the Andorians and the Vulcans could make for some really good T.V., but they never really go where they need to, they just use it as window dressing for filler episodes. Sad, really.

David Ferrell · « **Reply #9 on:** February 24, 2004, 10:37:45 pm »

When I saw George Takei back in 2001 during an OP recording
session, he was still pretty spry. However, time is a ticking.

Later,

Dave

feargusf · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2004, 11:07:25 pm »

Kirk did get it briefly, if you read the DC Comics series of that time. It's not canon, but it was pretty cool.

I would also love to see the Sulu/Excelsior series, but I doubt it will happen. Would have been a great idea ten years ago. I bet it would have been waaaaaaay better than Voyager.

20/20 hindsight. George Takei will not appeal to a young audience, and that's what Viacom covets.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2004, 11:32:18 pm »

well.. the younger crowd.. sure.. but there is a way to make excelsior appeal that way without sexing it up like B & B have done to enterprise (lowest common denominator)..

i mean, TNG appealed to youth.. as did the later parts of DS9 (if you follow my logic - anything which b and b didnt touch)..

i mean seriously, tng appealed to many youth.. as did some of the movies even.. what has been stupid are the cheesey time lines or poor plots. tng has but one real movie which people will want to see over and over again - first contact.

its not just because of the borg.. watch it and enjoy the human interaction and how they solve issues (hint, its not tech driven).. now what has made some of the more successful trek stuff.. whether its the later part of DS9, or the TNG story lines.. (or TOS stuff/TMP movies) was all about character driven conflict/resolutions - think about it.. some of the best eppisodes have the LEAST technobabble involved - and used.. or at very least that technobabble stuff is kept to where you dont notice it.

enterprise started out okay where people were important.. but again, insert temporal cold war, time-traveling technobabble and what do have.. probably the most UNtrek show to date. and they wonder why ratings drop?

Magnum357 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2004, 01:20:22 am »

Ya, I agree Nanner. Maybe doing a prequel was not a bad idea, but Beavus and Butt head adding the Time crap/Temperal Cold war and no regard too Star Trek Consistancy, was a bad idea on their part. I heard a couple of years ago that B&B only added the Time stuff because one of them wanted too make a Sifi show off of the idea, but Paramount wouldn't agree with the idea I guess. What a horrible way for someone too produce a product off another proven design, using Star Trek too propel their idea of another Sifi show. Pathetic!

As for Sulu and the Excelcior, it would have been great, but I bet it would have been difficult too pull off and not confuse your average TV veiwer that this is actually years before the TNG era and the ships/tech is not quite as advanced. No doubt the core audience would have loved it, but the casual fan would most likely be confused.

And I agree with most, the Excelcior Class is one of the my favorite ships. Its probably why I like the Ent-E too because I heard that some elements of the Soverign design are actually based off of the old Excelciors.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2004, 02:08:07 am »

I agree. First Contact is going to be the post TMP movie that everyone will bother watching, because it's the most human. That's one issue I actually had with a lot of TNG was that it was very stiff, imo, but did have it's moments. I actually preferred some of DS9. It's funny though, because when you think about it TNG started out with the scantily clad counselor out of starfleet uniform, didn't it? Although TNG did seem to turn into a soap opera after a while. B&B are amazing hacks who have a pretty limited number of ideas and won't even risk moving outside the small zone in which their imaginations reside, and that's one of the reasons Trek is in the situation it's in. The Trek universe is pretty large and diverse, but they only have the same ideas over and over. (BTW, I loathe the TNG romulans. Those stupid head ridges make no sense at all, not sure who's idea that was, but I wouldn't put it past Berman just to do something different than TOS).

It's also possible to have young people without having it be sexual. It just means that they could be young and pleasing to look at, along with older mentor figures in command. Sulu could make a pretty good Captain.

And let's talk techno babble. Ugh! It's all nice and good if it's in the background, but when you use it to solve every issue it's not good. It's bad writing, plain and simple, and I believe it also may alienate the average viewer, as they couldn't care less about a 10 minute sequence on realligning the warp coils. That's not really what good Sci-fi is about anyway. It's about the human spirit and how even in the future it's that very same spirit that get's things done. They don't solve the problems by being human and figuring a way out anymore, they use the magic reconfigure/reallign button and suddenly everything is solved, yet another reason that modern Trek bothers me. If it was so easy to amp up the power of the phasers and sensors then why wasn't it done before. Just suddenly in the middle of a battle "Hmmm, Captain, I think if I shift power from the main sensor array and route it into the secondary phaser coupling I can increase phaser output by 200%, should I do it?" Grrrr. Would it be so bad to maybe lose a battle, maybe have to run once in a while, as long as the war is won (meaning the end of the overall plot) perhaps you could show more character growth through a loss. Heck, Spock died, and even though they brought him back it was about losing a battle (spock dying) but then winning the in the end (bringing him back), and you actually got a lot more development out of the character than if you had them sitting around the lounge on the ship discussing stuff, they did everything on the move, and that's yet another thing that made it more interesting.

Cleaven · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2004, 04:30:36 am »

I wonder how fans would react to a new series of animated Star Trek, with new actors playing Kirk, Spock etc. I believe there are a stack of scripts still lying around.

TOCXOBearslayer · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2004, 04:56:58 am »

Yep, some very correct answers here....

Look at B5.... it was plot driven by the characters. Not the technology.

Hell, B6 reruns were kicking DS9's butt so bad that Paramount ended up copying B5 and making the series something more than a string of one hour solutions.

The prequel or a post TMP series could have been great with good characters and good plots. Unforutnately, it is too tech driven.....

Raniz Murjuri · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2004, 05:28:33 am »

i'm really not impressed with the whole deal.

If Berman would have got off his Fat Arse, and did things the way they should have..
I was looking forward to watching the Past lead up to the future, in the Enterprise Series.
Not the Past evoloving into something other than Kirk,Spock,Riker,Data,picard,Worf,Janeway..Ect..Ect..Ect..

I'm inclinded to think Enerprise has killed off the future to make it's own future, One without all the guys we grew up with.

I watch episode after episode.. and there's just too many things.. that dont coincide with the future as we know Trek
It started off by using a Akira Class Ship in a Time when it wasn't even on the drawing board.
Next.. I dont remeber the Vulcans Not Helping the federation in anyway shape or form.

Why is Berman not focused on Klingons? and how there came to be a War with them?
Why is he not focused on the Federation Expansion and space boundries?
Where does the Enterprise fly anyways? Cant be federation space.. they just got into space exploration.
Why is he not focused on the Plight of the Federations Call to The universe?

Poor guy is too busy fighting a Tech war that didn't happen yet.

2 years of running this Series.. and only 2 past tense Races are used besides the Vulcans.

They need to replace Berman with Shatner and the writers with older scripts.
Why Shatner?
Because he was the Start of Rodenberry's Dream. I believe Shatner would replace the show with the actual story line.

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2004, 12:36:43 pm »

Shatner has an imagination?

I've read his trek releated books, except for the last one, and found them to be bland. And of course, he is SOOOO full of himself. I would not want to see him in charge of any Star Trek franchise, for he will try to find a way to put Kirk in the series, and Kirk in the Enterprise era would actually be worse than what B&B are doing now.

Berman needs to go, but Shatner is not the person to replace him. Nimoy on the other hand, he might actually make the Vulcans finally start ACTING like Vulcans.

TheSatyr · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2004, 01:33:18 pm »

Bring in Shatner and Nimoy. Those two are still close friends. Between them they might be able to save the franchise.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2004, 02:33:27 pm »

that would be cool.

feargusf · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2004, 07:13:25 pm »

Both Shatner and Nimoy directed TMP era movies. The difference is that Nimoy's are watchable, while Shatner's is The Final Frontier.

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2004, 09:35:14 pm »

I'd rather Paramount turn over the script writing duties to people like Larry Niven, Gene Wolfe, Sharon K. Penman, George R. R. Martin, and even Harlan Ellison. (Note I said "people like this", as these specific authors would not likely be interested.)

Established, professional authors with a strong talent for building characters and telling a story. Authors who can convey a pioneer spirit. Authors who can establish a society that would work in a colonial-era.

That's the sort of thing Roddenberry did with the scripts for TOS. I've no idea which toothpase factory the current Enterprise authors were hired from.

-S'Cipio

Merlinfmct87 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 27, 2004, 06:59:21 am »

DS9? Plot? HUH? All that ever happened was they let the prophets work or tried to marry each other or mope about dead people.

Now Voyager has some serious bones...the character's had well...Character!

Plus there wern't any god-figures around to save the day.

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #31 on:** February 27, 2004, 08:32:24 am »

If Enterprise is going to continue beyond the fourth season, and do a Romulan War, there needs to be another Alien captain developed, Jeffery Combs playing Shran is wonderful, he will surely represent the Andorians during the Romulan War. But we havent seen hide nor hair of any Tellarite or Rigelian military commanders. Berman and Braga can't seem to make a Vulcan act like a Vulcan, so as long as they are in charge we're going to be thinking that every Vulcan we see is really a Romulan Spy. (Wouldn't surprise me a bit if Soval really was)

Leonard Nimoy is considered by many in the Trek circles as the father of Vulcan. During the Original Series, everyone who played a Vulcan went to Leonard for "How to Act like a Vulcan" Lessons. That continues into the movies as well, Leonard helped Curtis (the second Saavik) master the emotionless face even when faced with something as traumatic as having to say "Admiral, David is dead." A far cry from what Alley was able to do when Scotty brought his nephew onto the Bridge is ST II. (Which DC jumped all over to explain it as Saavik is half Romulan)

ganymad · « **Reply #32 on:** February 27, 2004, 09:29:42 am »

i agree that berman should go. dont get me wrong - i dont hate the new show.if u take it out of the star trek line its even quit a good show(a good episode is when archer isnt captured LOL;) ).However.i had a chat with a friend of mine shortly before enterprise got on air. we were talking about the new series and we agreed each other that enterprise would do damage to the star trek we know. we talked about other ideas. well, a sulu/excelsior series would have been great.(i have to say that im a tmp era fan). but why not a enterprise b series?sure the captain is far from being a perfect captain but even pike and picard needed some time to work things out. it would be possible to show all the things that happened between tmp and tng.
another idea was no series but tv movies. sure - its quit hard to work out the characters in a single movie or 2, but it would still be better than enterprise. or maybe a series from the viewpoint of the klingons or romulans.it wouldnt be sooo "human" but it would open quit some new perspectives.

my vote: enterprise B series with appearences of sulu or scott. that would kick ass.
but if they (b and b) had made such a series we would only see the same things we have seen before and the ships would all be butugly kitbashes like some in tng.

my 2 cents

FFZ · « **Reply #33 on:** February 27, 2004, 11:26:26 am »

My favorite subject, the two jerks who have been killing Trek for years! These two seem intent on doing the hellishly horrible Voyager over and over, they recreated 7 of 9 with T'Pol, sent the Enterprise off on a 'quest' where it can't get help (how Delta quadrant of them) and made sure that they destroy all the tenants of TOS, starting with the Vulcans.

Look at some examples. Spock tells Kirk flatly in one episodes "Vulcans would not cryout so" in reguards to Kirk wanting to rescue Surak who he believes is being tortured(episode "The Savage Curtain"). Voyager went out of its way to have an episode where Tuvok cries like a little [bleep] when tortured. Spock makes it plain that all Vulcans have the mental ability to meld with each other, and often do so. Enterprise goes out of its way to have an episode where this is considered 'mental rape' and says only 10% of Vulcans have the ability. If the Vulcans are such big allies of the humans, why don't they deploy some of their obviously superior ships in the SOL system to protect earth while the humans send their ONLY warp five ship on a basic wild goose chase? The answer is easy, the Xindi threat would be the joke it is, since the Vulcans would vaporize the Xindi before they got close to Earth. And that is just the Vulcans.

Ever notice that in 'Enterprise,' the Humans are actually hopelessly inferior to everybody else they meet? Every race can beat the ship in warp speed. They even showed that the Klingons have 23rd century tech already (transporters, weapons systems, ect. How did the humans survive a war when being so backward?) They even placed Earth and Q'nos within five days of each other, which means the neutral zone in the movies would have to be outside of Pluto's orbit. How stupid is that?

Then they add the old stand bys, episodes where they have to use flashlights (my wife noticed this, nearly half the shows are shot on dark soundstages, even the ship's interior is dismally lit, and I would be damned depressed living forever in twilight!) When they aern't doing this, they use dream future seqeunces, or some future boy drops in to provide whatever plot motivation is missing.

Even in the little things they are lame, like movie night. It seems only 20th century movies are popular on that ship.

OK, rant is over.

BTW, a Sulu show's time is past now. A fresh start in the same era could work, with a whole new ship name, and a new attitude, like giving us hope for the future, like Kirk and company did.

But unless they completely overhaul the show, this will go down as the most dreadful Trek of all, and considering their are 7 years of Voyager, that is saying something.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #35 on:** February 28, 2004, 01:06:51 am »

In otherwords, something like Firefly?

Mog · « **Reply #36 on:** February 28, 2004, 04:31:24 am »

I thought Firefly was great. I'd be happy with more of that. I'm also hoping for good things from Galactica.

FFZ · « **Reply #38 on:** February 28, 2004, 10:40:16 am »

No need to completely discard what we all know, there are enough 'blank' spots to fill pllenty of series. The main trouble I think is that the modern writers fall to easily into 'plot device' story lines, like holodecks or visitors from the future, for conflict starting and resolution.

'Enterprise' for example, could do whole episodes based around setting up a colonoy, and never have to bother with 'aleins' of any kind, a good writer could create conflict among the colonists themselves, and maybe the fleet command, they don't need it to always be some alien or 'futurboy' who drives the story.

Another factor with B&B is they always miss a trick, when they can do cool stuff. When the ship left earth to begin this stupid Xindi story line for example, she was a year old. They could have repainted her white and given her an NCC-01 on her hull, as a tip of the hat to the old timers and a link to the future. No, not B&B, they want to jump to the 24th century and that stupid time cop idea they had.

They disgust me.

wilfbrim · « **Reply #40 on:** February 29, 2004, 03:57:41 am »

If you are looking for a good story (although battles do occur at "hyperspeed", check out the series called "The Helmsman", found at Timberwolf books. The author is rewriting the first ones, and adding to the series. There is much character room, and it brings the "old" Star Trek flavor to the fore. The lead character is somewhat a Kirk type (Wilf Brim), but there would a lot of room to make a good story, better, I believe than Glactica and other old retreads. Time for a little freshness and creativity??? Wait a minute, Berman, creativity, Star Trek..... Nah, let's wipe the slate clean and start up again!

Primus2003 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 29, 2004, 08:37:12 am »

I In response to some previous posts:
#1 I have watched Enterprise, and looked at it objecttively. I have to admit it seems like they are disregarding the Trek future we know for something new. Watching it if I had not watched the other treks then perhaps. Prequels are very tricky and complex creatures. They must be handled very delicately. There is still time for Enterprise to set things right though. I myself had also hoped for an Excelsior type series based on the exploits of Captain Sulu and the Excelsior.
#2 If not that here's a different concept. what about the Enterprise 1701-B, with instead of that Harriman, give command to someone who deserves it, like Chekhov. It would have been a very fitting tribute to have the ensign of the original series as captain of his new generation or namesake of ship. It would be good to have both Shatner and Nimoy there, whose abilities would compliment each other in making a trek series. Though in all fairness Shatner did get a bit of a raw deal for Star Trek V, there were a number of production problems. There is still time to make things right, or perhaps they will evolve that way. I have enjoyed Star trek for a long time and want it to continue to live long and prosper.

FFZ · « **Reply #42 on:** February 29, 2004, 10:26:58 am »

As much as I loved ol Kirk, Shatner is gotten extremly long in the tooth (he's past 70 now, he will be 73 next month in fact), so his day is done as far as TV goes I think.

Enterprise can work with a new story editor, and some uplifting stories, and some recurring villians, like the Andorian guy.

They just have to give it a chance, NOT keep rehashing Voyager.

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #43 on:** February 29, 2004, 11:13:04 pm »

The NCC-01 wont be painted on the hull until the Federation is formed, and they are right to wait to do that. After all the NCC and the USS are Federation designations, not Earth designations.

FFZ · « **Reply #44 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:53:00 pm »

I suppose I should point out the flaw in that, namely that NX is also

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #45 on:** March 01, 2004, 05:18:27 pm »

very true...

Aoav160 · « **Reply #46 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:15:45 pm »

http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Television&action=page&type_id=&cat_id=&obj_id=40707

Still unconfirmed but it would be nice

Magnum357 · « **Reply #47 on:** January 31, 2004, 12:24:34 am »

Well, its still just a rumor. Berman should have never have tried too do a "Star Wars" and make a prequel series. Just too complicated, and too easy too alienate fans that way. Even Star Wars alienated a few Star Wars fans when Episode 1 came out.

Age · « **Reply #48 on:** February 24, 2004, 04:49:33 pm »

I 'll second that Magnums357 .I still wished thet would bring everybodys favourite Captian back to life yes Captian James T Kirk.He was and still is the best he broke all the rules and just think we would not of had Orion Pirates without his piece of action.He broke the rules that is why we can do it to.I say thank-you Captian Kirk.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #49 on:** February 24, 2004, 05:42:00 pm »

I don't see a problem with a prequel, but they did it all wrong, disregarding everything that was supposed to happen later, and just throwing stuff out there. Bad news, when you have a hard core base of fans. News Flash: Alienating a large segment of your viewership is bad for buisness. lol.

I actually think this cast is pretty good (the best one in a long while) but the show definitely needs help. There are a fews things of interest that pop up from time to time, but they always just blow by them and scoot towards the old standby/filler plots. Oh, well. Here's hopin' B&B finally get the axe.

On a side note, it's interesting to not the filler shows, and they are bumping it to 9 in March, right when Steven King's Kingdom Hospital premieres. They just can't get away from anything in the similar genre. I wonder if Kingdom will continue to hurt it?

SL-Punisher · « **Reply #50 on:** February 24, 2004, 06:13:42 pm »

::goes back to stabbing Rick Berman voodoo doll with pins::

NannerSlug · « **Reply #51 on:** February 24, 2004, 08:47:54 pm »

doing a prequel is not a bad thing.

doing the whole temporal cold war/ time garbage/ xindi stuff is.

we want to talk more about getting back to basics.. you know - klingons, romulans, etc.. (andorians and tholians show up more frequently?)

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #53 on:** February 24, 2004, 09:34:48 pm »

Sadly George is getting pretty old, but I'd still like to see him in action. I would have loved to see Captain Sulu and the Excelsior rather than most of the Trek series we've been given (heck, I'd rather watch that than TNG, DS9, or Voyager). It's obvious B&B do what they want, as it's always about some temporal/time something or other. They need to go, and if I were the guys in charge I would have been pretty angry when they went and did the prequel as their time traveller story instead of doing it properly.

Heck, I think some of the stuff between the Andorians and the Vulcans could make for some really good T.V., but they never really go where they need to, they just use it as window dressing for filler episodes. Sad, really.

David Ferrell · « **Reply #55 on:** February 24, 2004, 10:37:45 pm »

When I saw George Takei back in 2001 during an OP recording
session, he was still pretty spry. However, time is a ticking.

Later,

Dave

feargusf · « **Reply #57 on:** February 24, 2004, 11:07:25 pm »

Kirk did get it briefly, if you read the DC Comics series of that time. It's not canon, but it was pretty cool.

I would also love to see the Sulu/Excelsior series, but I doubt it will happen. Would have been a great idea ten years ago. I bet it would have been waaaaaaay better than Voyager.

20/20 hindsight. George Takei will not appeal to a young audience, and that's what Viacom covets.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #59 on:** February 24, 2004, 11:32:18 pm »

well.. the younger crowd.. sure.. but there is a way to make excelsior appeal that way without sexing it up like B & B have done to enterprise (lowest common denominator)..

i mean, TNG appealed to youth.. as did the later parts of DS9 (if you follow my logic - anything which b and b didnt touch)..

i mean seriously, tng appealed to many youth.. as did some of the movies even.. what has been stupid are the cheesey time lines or poor plots. tng has but one real movie which people will want to see over and over again - first contact.

its not just because of the borg.. watch it and enjoy the human interaction and how they solve issues (hint, its not tech driven).. now what has made some of the more successful trek stuff.. whether its the later part of DS9, or the TNG story lines.. (or TOS stuff/TMP movies) was all about character driven conflict/resolutions - think about it.. some of the best eppisodes have the LEAST technobabble involved - and used.. or at very least that technobabble stuff is kept to where you dont notice it.

enterprise started out okay where people were important.. but again, insert temporal cold war, time-traveling technobabble and what do have.. probably the most UNtrek show to date. and they wonder why ratings drop?

Magnum357 · « **Reply #60 on:** February 25, 2004, 01:20:22 am »

Ya, I agree Nanner. Maybe doing a prequel was not a bad idea, but Beavus and Butt head adding the Time crap/Temperal Cold war and no regard too Star Trek Consistancy, was a bad idea on their part. I heard a couple of years ago that B&B only added the Time stuff because one of them wanted too make a Sifi show off of the idea, but Paramount wouldn't agree with the idea I guess. What a horrible way for someone too produce a product off another proven design, using Star Trek too propel their idea of another Sifi show. Pathetic!

As for Sulu and the Excelcior, it would have been great, but I bet it would have been difficult too pull off and not confuse your average TV veiwer that this is actually years before the TNG era and the ships/tech is not quite as advanced. No doubt the core audience would have loved it, but the casual fan would most likely be confused.

And I agree with most, the Excelcior Class is one of the my favorite ships. Its probably why I like the Ent-E too because I heard that some elements of the Soverign design are actually based off of the old Excelciors.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #61 on:** February 25, 2004, 02:08:07 am »

I agree. First Contact is going to be the post TMP movie that everyone will bother watching, because it's the most human. That's one issue I actually had with a lot of TNG was that it was very stiff, imo, but did have it's moments. I actually preferred some of DS9. It's funny though, because when you think about it TNG started out with the scantily clad counselor out of starfleet uniform, didn't it? Although TNG did seem to turn into a soap opera after a while. B&B are amazing hacks who have a pretty limited number of ideas and won't even risk moving outside the small zone in which their imaginations reside, and that's one of the reasons Trek is in the situation it's in. The Trek universe is pretty large and diverse, but they only have the same ideas over and over. (BTW, I loathe the TNG romulans. Those stupid head ridges make no sense at all, not sure who's idea that was, but I wouldn't put it past Berman just to do something different than TOS).

It's also possible to have young people without having it be sexual. It just means that they could be young and pleasing to look at, along with older mentor figures in command. Sulu could make a pretty good Captain.

And let's talk techno babble. Ugh! It's all nice and good if it's in the background, but when you use it to solve every issue it's not good. It's bad writing, plain and simple, and I believe it also may alienate the average viewer, as they couldn't care less about a 10 minute sequence on realligning the warp coils. That's not really what good Sci-fi is about anyway. It's about the human spirit and how even in the future it's that very same spirit that get's things done. They don't solve the problems by being human and figuring a way out anymore, they use the magic reconfigure/reallign button and suddenly everything is solved, yet another reason that modern Trek bothers me. If it was so easy to amp up the power of the phasers and sensors then why wasn't it done before. Just suddenly in the middle of a battle "Hmmm, Captain, I think if I shift power from the main sensor array and route it into the secondary phaser coupling I can increase phaser output by 200%, should I do it?" Grrrr. Would it be so bad to maybe lose a battle, maybe have to run once in a while, as long as the war is won (meaning the end of the overall plot) perhaps you could show more character growth through a loss. Heck, Spock died, and even though they brought him back it was about losing a battle (spock dying) but then winning the in the end (bringing him back), and you actually got a lot more development out of the character than if you had them sitting around the lounge on the ship discussing stuff, they did everything on the move, and that's yet another thing that made it more interesting.

Cleaven · « **Reply #62 on:** February 25, 2004, 04:30:36 am »

I wonder how fans would react to a new series of animated Star Trek, with new actors playing Kirk, Spock etc. I believe there are a stack of scripts still lying around.

TOCXOBearslayer · « **Reply #63 on:** February 25, 2004, 04:56:58 am »

Yep, some very correct answers here....

Look at B5.... it was plot driven by the characters. Not the technology.

Hell, B6 reruns were kicking DS9's butt so bad that Paramount ended up copying B5 and making the series something more than a string of one hour solutions.

The prequel or a post TMP series could have been great with good characters and good plots. Unforutnately, it is too tech driven.....

Raniz Murjuri · « **Reply #64 on:** February 25, 2004, 05:28:33 am »

i'm really not impressed with the whole deal.

If Berman would have got off his Fat Arse, and did things the way they should have..
I was looking forward to watching the Past lead up to the future, in the Enterprise Series.
Not the Past evoloving into something other than Kirk,Spock,Riker,Data,picard,Worf,Janeway..Ect..Ect..Ect..

I'm inclinded to think Enerprise has killed off the future to make it's own future, One without all the guys we grew up with.

I watch episode after episode.. and there's just too many things.. that dont coincide with the future as we know Trek
It started off by using a Akira Class Ship in a Time when it wasn't even on the drawing board.
Next.. I dont remeber the Vulcans Not Helping the federation in anyway shape or form.

Why is Berman not focused on Klingons? and how there came to be a War with them?
Why is he not focused on the Federation Expansion and space boundries?
Where does the Enterprise fly anyways? Cant be federation space.. they just got into space exploration.
Why is he not focused on the Plight of the Federations Call to The universe?

Poor guy is too busy fighting a Tech war that didn't happen yet.

2 years of running this Series.. and only 2 past tense Races are used besides the Vulcans.

They need to replace Berman with Shatner and the writers with older scripts.
Why Shatner?
Because he was the Start of Rodenberry's Dream. I believe Shatner would replace the show with the actual story line.

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #68 on:** February 25, 2004, 12:36:43 pm »

Shatner has an imagination?

I've read his trek releated books, except for the last one, and found them to be bland. And of course, he is SOOOO full of himself. I would not want to see him in charge of any Star Trek franchise, for he will try to find a way to put Kirk in the series, and Kirk in the Enterprise era would actually be worse than what B&B are doing now.

Berman needs to go, but Shatner is not the person to replace him. Nimoy on the other hand, he might actually make the Vulcans finally start ACTING like Vulcans.

TheSatyr · « **Reply #69 on:** February 25, 2004, 01:33:18 pm »

Bring in Shatner and Nimoy. Those two are still close friends. Between them they might be able to save the franchise.

NannerSlug · « **Reply #70 on:** February 25, 2004, 02:33:27 pm »

that would be cool.

feargusf · « **Reply #71 on:** February 25, 2004, 07:13:25 pm »

Both Shatner and Nimoy directed TMP era movies. The difference is that Nimoy's are watchable, while Shatner's is The Final Frontier.

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #72 on:** February 25, 2004, 09:35:14 pm »

I'd rather Paramount turn over the script writing duties to people like Larry Niven, Gene Wolfe, Sharon K. Penman, George R. R. Martin, and even Harlan Ellison. (Note I said "people like this", as these specific authors would not likely be interested.)

Established, professional authors with a strong talent for building characters and telling a story. Authors who can convey a pioneer spirit. Authors who can establish a society that would work in a colonial-era.

That's the sort of thing Roddenberry did with the scripts for TOS. I've no idea which toothpase factory the current Enterprise authors were hired from.

-S'Cipio

Merlinfmct87 · « **Reply #75 on:** February 27, 2004, 06:59:21 am »

DS9? Plot? HUH? All that ever happened was they let the prophets work or tried to marry each other or mope about dead people.

Now Voyager has some serious bones...the character's had well...Character!

Plus there wern't any god-figures around to save the day.

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #77 on:** February 27, 2004, 08:32:24 am »

If Enterprise is going to continue beyond the fourth season, and do a Romulan War, there needs to be another Alien captain developed, Jeffery Combs playing Shran is wonderful, he will surely represent the Andorians during the Romulan War. But we havent seen hide nor hair of any Tellarite or Rigelian military commanders. Berman and Braga can't seem to make a Vulcan act like a Vulcan, so as long as they are in charge we're going to be thinking that every Vulcan we see is really a Romulan Spy. (Wouldn't surprise me a bit if Soval really was)

Leonard Nimoy is considered by many in the Trek circles as the father of Vulcan. During the Original Series, everyone who played a Vulcan went to Leonard for "How to Act like a Vulcan" Lessons. That continues into the movies as well, Leonard helped Curtis (the second Saavik) master the emotionless face even when faced with something as traumatic as having to say "Admiral, David is dead." A far cry from what Alley was able to do when Scotty brought his nephew onto the Bridge is ST II. (Which DC jumped all over to explain it as Saavik is half Romulan)

ganymad · « **Reply #78 on:** February 27, 2004, 09:29:42 am »

i agree that berman should go. dont get me wrong - i dont hate the new show.if u take it out of the star trek line its even quit a good show(a good episode is when archer isnt captured LOL;) ).However.i had a chat with a friend of mine shortly before enterprise got on air. we were talking about the new series and we agreed each other that enterprise would do damage to the star trek we know. we talked about other ideas. well, a sulu/excelsior series would have been great.(i have to say that im a tmp era fan). but why not a enterprise b series?sure the captain is far from being a perfect captain but even pike and picard needed some time to work things out. it would be possible to show all the things that happened between tmp and tng.
another idea was no series but tv movies. sure - its quit hard to work out the characters in a single movie or 2, but it would still be better than enterprise. or maybe a series from the viewpoint of the klingons or romulans.it wouldnt be sooo "human" but it would open quit some new perspectives.

my vote: enterprise B series with appearences of sulu or scott. that would kick ass.
but if they (b and b) had made such a series we would only see the same things we have seen before and the ships would all be butugly kitbashes like some in tng.

my 2 cents

FFZ · « **Reply #79 on:** February 27, 2004, 11:26:26 am »

My favorite subject, the two jerks who have been killing Trek for years! These two seem intent on doing the hellishly horrible Voyager over and over, they recreated 7 of 9 with T'Pol, sent the Enterprise off on a 'quest' where it can't get help (how Delta quadrant of them) and made sure that they destroy all the tenants of TOS, starting with the Vulcans.

Look at some examples. Spock tells Kirk flatly in one episodes "Vulcans would not cryout so" in reguards to Kirk wanting to rescue Surak who he believes is being tortured(episode "The Savage Curtain"). Voyager went out of its way to have an episode where Tuvok cries like a little [bleep] when tortured. Spock makes it plain that all Vulcans have the mental ability to meld with each other, and often do so. Enterprise goes out of its way to have an episode where this is considered 'mental rape' and says only 10% of Vulcans have the ability. If the Vulcans are such big allies of the humans, why don't they deploy some of their obviously superior ships in the SOL system to protect earth while the humans send their ONLY warp five ship on a basic wild goose chase? The answer is easy, the Xindi threat would be the joke it is, since the Vulcans would vaporize the Xindi before they got close to Earth. And that is just the Vulcans.

Ever notice that in 'Enterprise,' the Humans are actually hopelessly inferior to everybody else they meet? Every race can beat the ship in warp speed. They even showed that the Klingons have 23rd century tech already (transporters, weapons systems, ect. How did the humans survive a war when being so backward?) They even placed Earth and Q'nos within five days of each other, which means the neutral zone in the movies would have to be outside of Pluto's orbit. How stupid is that?

Then they add the old stand bys, episodes where they have to use flashlights (my wife noticed this, nearly half the shows are shot on dark soundstages, even the ship's interior is dismally lit, and I would be damned depressed living forever in twilight!) When they aern't doing this, they use dream future seqeunces, or some future boy drops in to provide whatever plot motivation is missing.

Even in the little things they are lame, like movie night. It seems only 20th century movies are popular on that ship.

OK, rant is over.

BTW, a Sulu show's time is past now. A fresh start in the same era could work, with a whole new ship name, and a new attitude, like giving us hope for the future, like Kirk and company did.

But unless they completely overhaul the show, this will go down as the most dreadful Trek of all, and considering their are 7 years of Voyager, that is saying something.

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #81 on:** February 28, 2004, 01:06:51 am »

In otherwords, something like Firefly?

Mog · « **Reply #82 on:** February 28, 2004, 04:31:24 am »

I thought Firefly was great. I'd be happy with more of that. I'm also hoping for good things from Galactica.

FFZ · « **Reply #84 on:** February 28, 2004, 10:40:16 am »

No need to completely discard what we all know, there are enough 'blank' spots to fill pllenty of series. The main trouble I think is that the modern writers fall to easily into 'plot device' story lines, like holodecks or visitors from the future, for conflict starting and resolution.

'Enterprise' for example, could do whole episodes based around setting up a colonoy, and never have to bother with 'aleins' of any kind, a good writer could create conflict among the colonists themselves, and maybe the fleet command, they don't need it to always be some alien or 'futurboy' who drives the story.

Another factor with B&B is they always miss a trick, when they can do cool stuff. When the ship left earth to begin this stupid Xindi story line for example, she was a year old. They could have repainted her white and given her an NCC-01 on her hull, as a tip of the hat to the old timers and a link to the future. No, not B&B, they want to jump to the 24th century and that stupid time cop idea they had.

They disgust me.

wilfbrim · « **Reply #86 on:** February 29, 2004, 03:57:41 am »

If you are looking for a good story (although battles do occur at "hyperspeed", check out the series called "The Helmsman", found at Timberwolf books. The author is rewriting the first ones, and adding to the series. There is much character room, and it brings the "old" Star Trek flavor to the fore. The lead character is somewhat a Kirk type (Wilf Brim), but there would a lot of room to make a good story, better, I believe than Glactica and other old retreads. Time for a little freshness and creativity??? Wait a minute, Berman, creativity, Star Trek..... Nah, let's wipe the slate clean and start up again!

Primus2003 · « **Reply #87 on:** February 29, 2004, 08:37:12 am »

I In response to some previous posts:
#1 I have watched Enterprise, and looked at it objecttively. I have to admit it seems like they are disregarding the Trek future we know for something new. Watching it if I had not watched the other treks then perhaps. Prequels are very tricky and complex creatures. They must be handled very delicately. There is still time for Enterprise to set things right though. I myself had also hoped for an Excelsior type series based on the exploits of Captain Sulu and the Excelsior.
#2 If not that here's a different concept. what about the Enterprise 1701-B, with instead of that Harriman, give command to someone who deserves it, like Chekhov. It would have been a very fitting tribute to have the ensign of the original series as captain of his new generation or namesake of ship. It would be good to have both Shatner and Nimoy there, whose abilities would compliment each other in making a trek series. Though in all fairness Shatner did get a bit of a raw deal for Star Trek V, there were a number of production problems. There is still time to make things right, or perhaps they will evolve that way. I have enjoyed Star trek for a long time and want it to continue to live long and prosper.

FFZ · « **Reply #88 on:** February 29, 2004, 10:26:58 am »

As much as I loved ol Kirk, Shatner is gotten extremly long in the tooth (he's past 70 now, he will be 73 next month in fact), so his day is done as far as TV goes I think.

Enterprise can work with a new story editor, and some uplifting stories, and some recurring villians, like the Andorian guy.

They just have to give it a chance, NOT keep rehashing Voyager.

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #89 on:** February 29, 2004, 11:13:04 pm »

The NCC-01 wont be painted on the hull until the Federation is formed, and they are right to wait to do that. After all the NCC and the USS are Federation designations, not Earth designations.

FFZ · « **Reply #90 on:** March 01, 2004, 03:53:00 pm »

I suppose I should point out the flaw in that, namely that NX is also

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #91 on:** March 01, 2004, 05:18:27 pm »

very true...

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Topic: Berman going? Let it be true (Read 8939 times)