Topic: Chandley retex/remodel...updated!!!!

[DestinyCalling]

Ok, on another post I mentioned a remodel of the superb Chandley Class Heavy Frigate (FASA) / Heavy Cruiser (everyone else)....

So, here's a quick WIP..... Early days though

   

[Klingon Fanatic]

Yeah Baby! Excellent work so far. A MUST have upon completion. Nice take on the rear firing torpedoes. Well done!

I hope you will consider adding a phaser bank to the rear and each of the wings. It always bugged me that they didn't have at least one phaser bank there at least as a late TMP upgrade.

Qapla!

KF

[Khaliban]

I have a problem with the Chandley.  Why does it have such a huge aft?  Really, it does.  Why are the engines so low?  Lately, I've been thinking about starships, especially FASA ships, in relation to their role and design.  Form follows function.  I don't think the Federation would design any other way.  So, what's with all the trunk space on the Chandley?  It's a transport ship, designed to carry a large amount of assault troops.  The large back end gives it the maximum amount of maneuvering room for shuttles.  I think the Chandley should have about six Miranda style shuttle bays, four straight across and two on those raised sections.

[DestinyCalling]

I take it you're ok with me using your bits... i'll get some WIPs up tommorow... see what you think  

[DestinyCalling]

Ok, a few more WIP's for you... All the bits are in place, I've added a rear phaser bank plus a twin photorp launcher. Round the front there are two more launchers plus two additional single phaser mounts atop the main hull... All I need to do is texture the pink bits... Which of course takes the longest.

All screengrabs use 512x512 textures.

 

 

 

feedback appreciated if you feel inclined....    

[Marauth]

It looks cool but I must point out that the pink bits are infact P81's second generation parts and don't even compare with his final SFC work let alone Khalibans parts, the textures will do a lot to remedy that but there will still be a ver noticeable difference in the quality of the meshes. Nice work so far though look forward to seeing some textures on the arse of that thing...

[DestinyCalling]

Quote:
It looks cool but I must point out that the pink bits are infact P81's second generation parts and don't even compare with his final SFC work let alone Khalibans parts, the textures will do a lot to remedy that but there will still be a ver noticeable difference in the quality of the meshes. Nice work so far though look forward to seeing some textures on the arse of that thing...  

Oh I agree completely... Thing is though, I'm no modeller and no one (so far anyway) has done a detailed Chandley mesh... It is a cause for concern for me... I wonder if there's some plugin I can use to smooth it a little.  

[Anthony_Scott]

Wow...one of my very favourite FASA ships being redone...I still have one of the metal miniatures they released way back when of the Chandley...

Semper Fi, Carry On

[Core]

i still say 32 bit textures are to low on cuality

but it looks grat

[Khaliban]

I'm not sure about the phasers on top of the shoulder pads, or whatever you call them.  That looks more like a place for running lights.  But the real trick is finding a good place for the sensors and the blue section.  Constitution refit variants have three forward sensors (see below) and a section of blue hull along the engineering section.  FASA didn't go into the kind of obsessive-compulsive detail that we do.  Then again, they were making inch-long pewter models.  They didn't have the room we do.  Look at the Phobos model for inspiration.  Even if he did put one of the sensors on backwards.

Sensors:

[Bernard Guignard]

Quote:
I'm not sure about the phasers on top of the shoulder pads, or whatever you call them.  That looks more like a place for running lights.  But the real trick is finding a good place for the sensors and the blue section.  Constitution refit variants have three forward sensors (see below) and a section of blue hull along the engineering section.  FASA didn't go into the kind of obsessive-compulsive detail that we do.  Then again, they were making inch-long pewter models.  They didn't have the room we do.  Look at the Phobos model for inspiration.  Even if he did put one of the sensors on backwards.

Sensors:

 

According to the TMP blueprints and Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise those are called Space-Energy Field Attraction Sensors   I prefer to think of them as some kind of sensor suite.  Gerard Gilso has called them Free particle Field Attraction Sensors.   A rose by any other name would smell as sweet    

[Klingon Fanatic]

Quote:
I'm not sure about the phasers on top of the shoulder pads, or whatever you call them.  That looks more like a place for running lights.  But the real trick is finding a good place for the sensors and the blue section.  Constitution refit variants have three forward sensors (see below) and a section of blue hull along the engineering section.  FASA didn't go into the kind of obsessive-compulsive detail that we do.  Then again, they were making inch-long pewter models.  They didn't have the room we do.  Look at the Phobos model for inspiration.  Even if he did put one of the sensors on backwards.

Sensors:

 

Khaliban,

If you move the Chandley around you can see blind spots where there is NO weapon arcs covering its flanks on certain attack trajectories [where the Chandley's weapons can not hit an enemy vessel attacking it]. I am NOT talking about making the Chandley a SUPER BB when I say it should as an UPGRADE get at leat one phaser bank on the 'Wings' to defend the Marines within.  Here's a thought:  additional deck space could be gained from a version that doesn't have a hollowed out section behind the top part of the saucer. Perhaps that would go hand in hand with the Strike Carrier varient you had in mind.

As for the USS Phobos having a rear facing sensor array; I don't think that is a mistake at all. I imagine the Phobos to be a top of the line destroyer or light cruiser (XDD) and I would thik that a rear facing sensor would be a good idea if the ship were to be used for something like hunting for cloaked ships.

As always its great to read your posts Khaliban.


DestinyCalling,

Have you considered doing a Chandley kitbash using the D2 P81 Excalibur saucer and engines? I don't believe one has ever been made.


Qapla!

KF

[DestinyCalling]

Now there's a thought.....

I dont work mega quick though so dont hold your breath  

[Bernard Guignard]

Might I suggest that the sensors  Kahliban has mentioned could be put on the leading edge of the wings and one on the ships centerline at the lowest point. Nice work by the way  

[Khaliban]

Phasers on the Chandley are difficult to figure out.  On one hand, it does have a lot of potential blind spots.  On the other hand, it's a troop transport.  Weapons are not of paramount importance.  I don't think it would even have your aft torpedoes.  In combat, it would likely have escort.  A Baker or Loknar would make most sense.  With it's overall design and engine placement, it would have horrible maneuverability.  The worst in the fleet or close to it.  The Brenton might be slightly worse, but it's a close call.  I'd say minimal phasers.  Just enough to cover blind spots.  Fewer emitters than either the Enterprise or the Miranda.

I still don't know where to put the blue part.

[Klingon Fanatic]

In he FASA Trek universe  the Chandley had two forward and two rear torpedo tubes for the class from its introduction to its subsequent refits.  IN TNG times I agree that it would be  a second line ship as it might not have the phaser arrays or uber modern tech required to keep up with even a Nova class.

Again FASA Trek FEDERATION frigates are really cruisers (as in the 17th-18th Century definitions not SFB definitions). Why SFB/SFC chose to make frigates the smallest warships is beyond me. It clearly defies modern  naval terminology.

Frigates in Modern navies are designed to operate alone ( a la heavy Cruisers). Personally any ship carrying more weapons and marines than a heavy cruiser should NOT be called a scout ship or a frigate.

Brad R. Torgersen writes a wonderful peice on Naval vs FASA Trek terminology that is worth reading:

http://www.sub-odeon.com/stsstcsmua/

A selected quote from his article "SHIP TYPE: A DETAILED EXPLANATION " Written by Brad R. Torgersen, 2002


" Frigates of the STSSTCS [Star Trek Starship Tactical Combat Simulator] game system are more powerful, massive, and better armed than most Destroyers, and indeed some of the largest Frigate designs like the Northampton or the Klingon L-9 can hold their own against all but the largest and most powerful Cruisers.  In this sense, a Frigate might be thought of as a Light Cruiser, with less emphasis on exploratory duties and more emphasis on combat and patrol duties.  Most Frigate designs in the Trek universe sport contingents of marines for boarding actions, and it seems obvious to me that a Frigate is not likely to blunder into an unexpected fight.  A Frigate is going to be on the scene when somebody knows trouble is brewing, and Frigates may accompany Cruisers as heavy escort in scenarios where combat is seen as inevitable.
          Again, for Star Trek purposes a Frigate may be thought of as a Light Cruiser without many of the scientific or exploratory frills.  These are warships first and foremost, and they ought to be played as such any time you use them."

Here are Mr. Torgersen's comments on the Chandley:

"BRAD'S COMMENTS:  Of all the non-canon ships that were created for the original STSSTCS, the Chandley is far and away the most beloved.  Over the years I have seen more positive comments about the Chandley from more fans than just about any other non-canon ship in the entire game.  People just LOVE this ship, and rightly so.
        The Chandley is a complete package.  Aesthetically gorgeous, statistically formidable, the Chandley is one of those well-designed vessels that even non-gamer fans have heard of.  Which is a testament to how nicely this ship fits into the TMP-era mythos of the Trek franchise.  Fan fiction aplenty has been written around this class, and it has been adopted by not just a few fan "starship" clubs.  What else can be said?  This class is well known and well adored by gamers and non-gamers alike, and just once before I die I'd love to see somebody involved with the movies or TV shows make SOME official mention of the Chandley.  That way it could truly attain its proper place in the Trek canon.
        In game terms, there are few ships from the STSSTCS that can match the Chandley one-on-one.  It can beat just about any other frigate, friendly or enemy, and bests all but the largest cruisers and battleships.  Possessing powerful multiple torpedoes both fore and aft, plus strong phasers and power to energize them, the Chandley can cripple all but the largest enemy vessels with only a few well-placed shots.  When playing the Klingons or Romulans versus a Chandley I have only ever been able to beat the Chandley by using a Romulan V-30 or a Klingon D-10, both of which are heavy cruisers.  Otherwise, it comes down to overwhelming the Chandley's strong offensive and defensive capability with multiple ships.
        The backstory is lengthy but well written.  The reference to the fictional Admiral Chandley who blockades the Soviets in 2003 is amusing considering modern history in the real world.  Back in the 1980's few of us in America could conceive of the idea that the Soviet Union would fall apart before the turn of the century.  Certainly we never imagined that Russia would wind up as a democratic ally at the start of the new millenium."

And the bulk of the information on the FASA Trek Universe ships is there also.

I am So looking forward to the release of this version  

KF

[Khaliban]

I can't agree with that interpretation.  "Cool looking" should never be the basis for combat effectiveness.  From a pure design standpoint, the best combat ship among the Con-Refit variants is the Miranda.  I explain why in another thread.  I agree the Chandley is a great design, but it's a great transport design.  It's not a fighter, not even in TMP era.  It's mass is spread out, reducing it's turning speed and increasing it's target size.  Slow to turn and easy to hit are not a good combination.  The other FASA frigates, the Loknar, Kiev and Baker, are much better combat designs.  Even if it had the power of the Enterprise or Miranda, which is possible, it can't match even their maneuverability.  Heavy armor and shields might help, but at a cost of speed and phaser power.  This is nothing personal.  It's just physics.  The Chandley may be a popular design, but it would never be a match for a heavy cruiser.  Shield power might balance it against another frigate, but that's the best it could get.

[Marauth]

Actually with such widely spaced nacelles it's warp manoeuverability would be second to none and as for sublight - it's engine is in the same place as pretty much all the other Enterprise-variants being in the middle at the rear of the saucer.

The large target area is the price they pay for the  manoeuverability it grants. Think about it, in ST the ships turn by sending more power to one nacelle than to the other - kind of like paddling harder on one side of a canoe to turn it so the closer the nacelles the more effort is required to turn the ship and vice versa.

[Dizzy]

Did you make brk mods for those 2x Connie ships you made? The khaliban and khambatta?

And I must argue with you about 'center of mass' and such for turning radius on the Chandley. There are several different ways the physics of it work, and none of them really work in OUR real life physics. The ships impulse manuevering is impossible the way its done in ST.

The best explanation I can come up with is the use of warp engines creating a warp bubble where space is transported around the ship allowing it to change directions w/o having to endure the forces of inertia while manuevering. This doesnt mean its gonna 'go' anywhere creating a mere bubble, but attitude and direction can be changed on the fly w/o going into warp speeds, thus allowing the impulse engines to 'push' the ship forward. I don't know how the ships stop. Apparently conventional modern aircraft engine 'thrust reversers' were used on the Reman ship in Nemesis which made it go in reverse.

Very silly stuff to be arguing about. Lets not even go into how artificial gravity and inertia dampeners work. Hehe.

[Dizzy]

Quote:
Think about it, in ST the ships turn by sending more power to one nacelle than to the other - kind of like paddling harder on one side of a canoe to turn it so the closer the nacelles the more effort is required to turn the ship and vice versa.  

Tank treads, hehe.