Topic: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation  (Read 15684 times)

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Dogmatix!

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2004, 04:38:35 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Question: Do any of you care?

Do you feel the same way about missing an Enterprise episode than you did about missing a new TNG?

I don't. I used to ensure I didn't miss the first showing of a TNG episode, less so with DS9, even less with Voyager....




The last show I watched that I took care not to miss any episodes of, was Babylon 5.

I am a fan of TOS, and liked a few episodes each of Voyager and DS9.  Never liked TNG, and don't watch Enterprise.  





I've pretty much liked every show you have listed here (even the ones you didn't).  For me, there is so very little even mildly watchable TV on these days that I even watch Enterprise and Andromeda religiously.  If Enterprise goes away, that leaves two (Andromeda and Angel) Sci-Fi/fantasy shows left that I watch, having lost Farscape and Buffy last year.


It kinda sucks.  There's no end to the completely inane reality drivel on the air but they cant find the resources to keep airing a Star Trek show on UPN.



Anyone heard whether or not Battlestar Galactica was getting picked up?



Heh, I guess that's why I'm buying a lot of these series on DVD (Farscape, B5, Buffy, Angel) so I can keep watching them rather than the crap thats on telly.

TOCXOBearslayer

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2004, 07:42:47 pm »
Quote:

Well now we can hope to get that show with Sulu as the captian on air now.....well at least I will.  




Does anyone remember that there was 3 possible choices with the 'next' ST show?

The three options were:

Sulu & the Excelsior
Enterprise (ie begining of the Federation)
ST:TN(N)G (ie) the next next generation with time jumping and all sorts of stuff)

B&B favored the time jumping one....

Paramount choose Enterprise.  

Isn't it amazing that B&B are using time jumping in Enterprise?

To date, I have seen about 2 hours and 15 minutes of the entire run of the series.... but from what I have heard.... it is not good.

I hope they kill Enterprise and fire B&B.  Then hire someone with some real vision and start a new series.  

Javora

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2004, 08:27:28 pm »
Quote:


I hope they kill Enterprise and fire B&B. Then hire someone with some real vision and start a new series.





I don't know about the "kill Enterprise" part, but with everyone who watches Trek agrees that B&B need to go.  Why hasn't Paramount given B&B the boot?  What is it going to take to get Paramount to listen?  Maybe we should all (Trek fans everywhere) get together and do a mass write-in to Paramount.  Maybe then Paramount will finally get the message.
 

Mariner

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2004, 09:12:22 pm »
Trek, as a whole, needs one thing only, in most cases, to survive. Just look at recent Trek, from TNG onwards, and you can see that somethings gonewrong in the past decade..


TNG: Good overall execution, still my favortive of all of the series (though thanks to SFC, that opinion is shifting ). Much better consistency, more characeters, but there seems to be a lack of equal "depth" between Riker, Picard, Data, Troi, Worf, Geordi, Wes (Yeah, he WAS a regular ), Yar (She should've stayed IMO), Pulaski, and Crusher. It seems as if the writers decided to focus on Data and Picard the most in terms of "fleshing out", and the others' personalities suffering slightly as a result. But, everyone has something to be proud of in their backround, like Geordi's VISOR or Pulaski's relationship with Kyle Riker.

Overall, a worty companion to TOS.


DS9: N/A Truthfully, I haven't seen enough to give a full opinion. But, from what I have seen, it's a refreshing change. Although we have familiar elements scattered about, TNG and DS9 coudn't be more different. Sisko seems a little darker than Picard, which isn't bad, but he still has strong values behind him, just bigger problems to face. I nearly die of a heart attack from watching Odo and Quark dance around one another, both balancing the line between "Law" and "Crime". Bashir and Garak make an interesting pair, yet they both have their own unique histories and qualities (which is true for all). As for Kira, well, let's just say she's a little...uhh, "confused" in terms of what her place is, Very human, which gives DS9 bonus points!

Overall, another proud bearer of the "Star Trek" name.


VOY: Can we say "WEEEEEEEE'VE LOST IT!" in terms of purpose and direction? Aside from the advancements of "secondary characters" like Seven and the Doc, I couldn't give a damn about Capt. "Lameway" and the Mega-übership Voyager. There's just too much PC and "ascaredness" in the excecution of...EVERYTHING. It's as if they don't even want to change the characters, the surroundings, or have long lasting plot arcs. It's "Hey, it's THE BOOOOOOORG! LET'S KILL THEIR F**KING A$$ES!!!" every week, with treknobabble and guest stars spread about here and there, as a distraction. Sometimes, the protagonists are often much more worthy of their own series, and yet VOY is still bland as cafeteria food?

Overall, "I think I'm gonna be sick.." is the best description.


ENT: Thank god VOY died in 2001, atleast replaced with something more deserving of the "Trek" banner. I must honestly say, the setting of the story is quite interesting, and has the potential to be as intricate, interesting and detailed as the TOS-TMP era. Not only are we treated with an attempt at decent episodes, we actually care about the main characters this time around. Sure, Archer's a bit screwloose, but who woudln't be, considering that he's supposed to be melting under the spotlight? That's intriguing enough to watch regularly. T'Pol has a bit of conflict inside her, which is typical Vulcan. Again, interesting and intrugiung. But, although the writers have made good attempts at making good, edgy conflicts and stories, those episodes are often separated bu crappiness of VOY-grade level (aka Toddler-on-steriods-and-Ritalin grade).


Overall, "The worst has passed...We think." My opinion is still hanging, along with most Trekkies.


What does this mean? Well think about it for a second. TNG and DS9, while benifitting from fresh new ideas, also had one extremely vital compnent. The core spirit of TOS. The will and desire to "go boldly where no one has gone before," often to very tarred and taboo groud (I can't even begin to list these), but still delivering powerful messages of hope, opportunity, and overall optimisim.

I think that other have pretty much explained VOY and ENT elsewhere, so I shall now conclude.

It doesn't matter if ENT was instead set in the 25th or 57648565th century, time and setting are subject to choice. What truly defines Trek is quality storytelling and clear messages, which cannot be comprimised, not by law, not by studio policy, not by the mighty Rick Berman himself...  

Scott Allen Abfalter

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2004, 08:33:21 am »

Exactly.  It's bad writing.  

Enterprise could be saved as show by hiring good writers and giving them freedom.  

B&B write most of the episodes and retain creative control over the rest.  Therein lies the problem.  

 

Karnak

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #65 on: January 21, 2004, 10:15:19 am »
Once when I was touring the small naval museum in Vancouver, B.C. where they store the ship that made the Arctic passage in the early 1940s, I saw a display of TNG memorabilia.  The display pointed to the fact that the core theme of naval exploration in Star Trek mirrored the real-life exploration done in the 18th and 19th centuries by the Royal Navy with famous captains like Captain Cook.  So, it is little surprise to me that Star Trek writers and directors that draw on the  Horatio Hornblower series for inspiration in their Star Trak writer and direction exploits produce the best and most profitable Trek shows/movies.  Ronald Moore wrote many good episodes in TNG, did most of the writing of First Contact and really took off with the Dominion war arc in DS9.  He just currently did the writing for the new BSG mini-series and brought the special effects people from DS9 to the BSG initiative.  Nicolas Meyer was the director of probably 2 of the best Trek movies ever in ST2 and ST6 and he too used Horatio Hornblower as a key reference.  Currently, Master and Commander is doing well in the movie theaters to show that there is a stable niche market for this naval exploration theme against the background of geo-political struggle.  For example, the TOS Federation and Klingons mirrored the global power struggles of England and France in the Napoleonic wars, the continuing struggles of Western Nations with Germany in WW1 and WW2, and the Cold War struggle of NATO and the USSR.

Is it any surprise that writers like B&B that totally disregard the core naval quality and geo-political struggles of the core Star Trek by continually messing with the timeline in serious matters are harvesting smaller and smaller ratings while those that embrace it like N. Meyer and R. Moore do well?  When will B&B understand that the only timeline shows that will work in Trek are of the non-serious comedic variety with regards to global politics like what was done in Star Trek IV that was basically a funny ST intro movie that the GreenPeace party would love.  Or, time-travel episode where you have to repair the timeline marred by aliens or baddies or loonies like the deranged McCoy in the TOS time travel episode to 1930s USA. But, start making key arc episodes based on time travel is ludricious and makes the Star Trek fan base refuse to take such a series seriously. There is nothing to look forward to when the rules are constantly changing or could be changed at the time-traveling magic machine's whim.  It almost feels like one of those nightmare Software projects where the users were never told to freeze the requirements and there was not enough process analysis done. The project invariably gets in big trouble by missing deadlines repeatedly and someone eventually gets fired over it.  So, B&B should not be surprised if it happens to them.

Right now, it looks like the chances are good that B&B Enterprise is cancelled while the Ronald Moore  BSG series is picked up.  I call that market forces dispensing with justice in the Sci-Fi genre and it's about time.    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Karnak »

Scott Allen Abfalter

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2004, 04:12:07 pm »
Quote:

Once when I was touring the small naval museum in Vancouver, B.C. where they store the ship that made the Arctic passage in the early 1940s, I saw a display of TNG memorabilia.  The display pointed to the fact that the core theme of naval exploration in Star Trek mirrored the real-life exploration done in the 18th and 19th centuries by the Royal Navy with famous captains like Captain Cook.  So, it is little surprise to me that Star Trek writers and directors that draw on the  Horatio Hornblower series for inspiration in their Star Trak writer and direction exploits produce the best and most profitable Trek shows/movies.  Ronald Moore wrote many good episodes in TNG, did most of the writing of First Contact and really took off with the Dominion war arc in DS9.  He just currently did the writing for the new BSG mini-series and brought the special effects people from DS9 to the BSG initiative.  Nicolas Meyer was the director of probably 2 of the best Trek movies ever in ST2 and ST6 and he too used Horatio Hornblower as a key reference.  Currently, Master and Commander is doing well in the movie theaters to show that there is a stable niche market for this naval exploration theme against the background of geo-political struggle.  For example, the TOS Federation and Klingons mirrored the global power struggles of England and France in the Napoleonic wars, the continuing struggles of Western Nations with Germany in WW1 and WW2, and the Cold War struggle of NATO and the USSR.

Is it any surprise that writers like B&B that totally disregard the core naval quality and geo-political struggles of the core Star Trek by continually messing with the timeline in serious matters are harvesting smaller and smaller ratings while those that embrace it like N. Meyer and R. Moore do well?  When will B&B understand that the only timeline shows that will work in Trek are of the non-serious comedic variety with regards to global politics like what was done in Star Trek IV that was basically a funny ST intro movie that the GreenPeace party would love.  Or, time-travel episode where you have to repair the timeline marred by aliens or baddies or loonies like the deranged McCoy in the TOS time travel episode to 1930s USA. But, start making key arc episodes based on time travel is ludricious and makes the Star Trek fan base refuse to take such a series seriously. There is nothing to look forward to when the rules are constantly changing or could be changed at the time-traveling magic machine's whim.  It almost feels like one of those nightmare Software projects where the users were never told to freeze the requirements and there was not enough process analysis done. The project invariably gets in big trouble by missing deadlines repeatedly and someone eventually gets fired over it.  So, B&B should not be surprised if it happens to them.

Right now, it looks like the chances are good that B&B Enterprise is cancelled while the Ronald Moore  BSG series is picked up.  I call that market forces dispensing with justice in the Sci-Fi genre and it's about time.      





Cinescape reports a rumor from a previously reliable source that BSG will get an initial six episode order.

 

Baker

  • Guest
Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2004, 04:23:25 am »
 I grew  up in the TNG era as well and while I found TNG itself pretty good, I found that DS9 was one of the ST shows. I rank it high primarily because we see a darker side of Star Trek.


Sethan

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2004, 10:50:49 am »
If they really want to save it from cancellation, the first thing to do is fire Rick Berman.

Iceman

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2004, 11:28:14 am »
Quote:

If they really want to save it from cancellation, the first thing to do is fire Rick Berman.  




Can I get an Amen?!

Rat_Boy

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2004, 11:56:17 am »
As much as I don't like B&B, cancelling the show outright will kill Star Trek.  This needs to be handled carefully if the franchise is to have a future.

Sethan

  • Guest
Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2004, 11:58:01 am »
Quote:

As much as I don't like B&B, cancelling the show outright will kill Star Trek.




Perhaps for a while.  It will be back though, if that happens.  There is just too much money to be made there for it to go away permanently.

hobbesmaster

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2004, 12:05:33 pm »
Uhm, is there a greater instult to a show than being cancelled from UPN?  

Ravok

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2004, 12:06:11 pm »
 Replaced by a T&A model show!! Somebody kill me now, If this isn't proof of how common the average American has become i don't know what is. I guess I'm stuck with PBS the History Channel and all the Discovery channels.  

Death_Merchant

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2004, 12:13:04 pm »
Question: Do any of you care?

Do you feel the same way about missing an Enterprise episode than you did about missing a new TNG?

I don't. I used to ensure I didn't miss the first showing of a TNG episode, less so with DS9, even less with Voyager....

Enterprise??!? Heck, I barely remember what night it's on.

I'm curious....

Do you watch Enterprise regularly?
Yes, I see every new episode (I might skip repeats)
No, I watch occasionally but not regularly


 
If the numbers aren't high HERE, that's bad for Enterprise. This is a essentially a Trek gaming forum afterall....  

NannerSlug

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Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #76 on: January 19, 2004, 12:14:10 pm »
Quote:

Uhm, is there a greater instult to a show than being cancelled from UPN?  




good answer. this is really, really bad news guys- and yes, it kills trek to a great extent.

Rat_Boy

  • Guest
Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #77 on: January 19, 2004, 12:27:04 pm »
Trek is like a shark these days, it needs to swim forward in order to survive.  If it stops swimming, it starts floating belly-up.  It could be resurrected down the road, but I doubt it would catch fire as much as TNG did.

JMM

  • Guest
Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #78 on: January 19, 2004, 12:29:49 pm »
I've only seen one episode to be honest. I prefer the movies myself. I always loved TOS, having grown up on it, but after ST2: Wrath of Khan came out, I was hooked! Then it was off to SFB board game, then years later a company called Taldren released a game called SFC, and that was all she wrote! It was campaignland for this person!  

Sethan

  • Guest
Re: Rumors swarm of ENT's cancellation
« Reply #79 on: January 19, 2004, 12:59:24 pm »
Quote:

Question: Do any of you care?

Do you feel the same way about missing an Enterprise episode than you did about missing a new TNG?

I don't. I used to ensure I didn't miss the first showing of a TNG episode, less so with DS9, even less with Voyager....




The last show I watched that I took care not to miss any episodes of, was Babylon 5.

I am a fan of TOS, and liked a few episodes each of Voyager and DS9.  Never liked TNG, and don't watch Enterprise.