Topic: saratoga question

[DonKarnage]

in st4 the voyage home the uss saratoga (don't know the registry number ) was a avenger class like the reliant, this ship have the torpedo pod and the megaphaser, but in the next generation the saratoga only have big canon phaser on the side, so is it the same ship/class as in st4 the voyage home or a new class?


also in st4 kirk use the transporter will under cloak, so in ds9 why the defiant have to un cloak to use the transporter?
two: since the fed have a klingon bird of prey why did the ask the romuland for a cloaking device insted of the klingon or using the one from the bird of prey? (if the still have the ship or still working).

[Fury_of_a_Seraph]

Quote:
in st4 the voyage home the uss saratoga (don't know the registry number ) was a avenger class like the reliant, this ship have the torpedo pod and the megaphaser, but in the next generation the saratoga only have big canon phaser on the side, so is it the same ship/class as in st4 the voyage home or a new class?


also in st4 kirk use the transporter will under cloak, so in ds9 why the defiant have to un cloak to use the transporter?
two: since the fed have a klingon bird of prey why did the ask the romuland for a cloaking device insted of the klingon or using the one from the bird of prey? (if the still have the ship or still working).  

The reliant, and the first Saratoga were Miranda class vessels, not Avenger class - and ive never seen the Miranda with a Mega-Phaser, with the exception of the Second Saratoga, which I consider to be a sub-class...in my own private universe they were rearely produced, originally to give almost a second try to the miranda class, but it was never all that popular.

Im afraid im not really understand what your asking in the second question

third question, simple enough. The cloaking device on the BOP was just so outdated that it wouldnt have been anywhere remotely useful...i mean you could even see distortions when it was cloaked.

[MajorRacal]

I'd suggest the Federation went to the Roms for a cloaking device as their cloaking technology should technically be more advanced than the Klingon variety.  In addition, for a Fed ship to use a cloak would be a contravention of whatever agreement they'd signed with the Roms (the one they mentioned in TNG episode with the Pegasus (was it the Pegasus, I've not seen it for so long I've forgotten)), or risk a political scandal.

As for the Defiant having to decloak to use the transporter when the ST:IV BOP did not, there could be many reasons - demand on power, for example - but most likely it was just a typical case of sloppy writing and dis-continuity.  

[InragedSith]

The Saratoga in TVH and the Saratoga in DS9 are two different ships

The Reliant and the first Saratoga were Miranda class. Where did you get Avenger class?

For the cloaks...

The Klingons and the Feds weren't best buddies at the time of ST4 the Klingons would want their ship back...
...all of it

The Romulans gave the Feds an old or "special" cloaking device to use on the Defiant  

[Fury_of_a_Seraph]

Quote:

<SNIP>
Where did you get Avenger class?
<SNIP>
 

I think Avenger is the FASA name for the Miranda, but i could be wrong

[DonKarnage]

in the fasa book its call reliant class, i might ben confuse with the uss avenger NCC 1860 miranda class with the uss miranda NCC 1830 miranda class

[DonKarnage]

Quote:
in st4 the voyage home the uss saratoga (don't know the registry number ) was a avenger class like the reliant, this ship have the torpedo pod and the megaphaser, but in the next generation the saratoga only have big canon phaser on the side, so is it the same ship/class as in st4 the voyage home or a new class?


also in st4 kirk use the transporter will under cloak, so in ds9 why the defiant have to un cloak to use the transporter?
two: since the fed have a klingon bird of prey why did the ask the romuland for a cloaking device insted of the klingon or using the one from the bird of prey? (if the still have the ship or still working).  

i ment when the defiant was send back in time by thebajoran  time orb(during kirk time), the defiante have to de cloack to use the transporter but kirk with a bop use the transporter (with weaken dilitium cristal) will still cloack,

   (y wynaut)  

[Chrystoff]

Quote:

Quote:

<SNIP>
Where did you get Avenger class?
<SNIP>
 

I think Avenger is the FASA name for the Miranda, but i could be wrong  

The question that was asked at the beginning of this thread is sort of a loaded question. The biggest complaint with anything Star Trek related is continuity. Thanks to Rick Berman and various other folks currently at the helm of the franchise, any continuity has been broken, rerouted, and then broken again. Take the Miranda/Avenger (not to mention Reliant/Saratoga/Cyane/Knox)  issue that continuously rises up to be debated time and again. The thing to keep in mind is that there are 3 (probably more) factions at work here:

1. The Paramount Empire
2. Fan Fiction (like Ships of the Starfleet & Jackill's guides)
3. Star Fleet Battles

Each one has a different spin on things, and so you end up with varying stories on where, for example, the Miranda came from. When TNG came out, low and behold, all of a sudden we have the Miranda class. Neither Starfleet Battles or any other fan based publications mention a Miranda. To my knowledge, no publications before the advent of TNG mentions a "Miranda Class" either, at least not in the shape and form of the ship we all know and love as the USS Reliant. Heck, even within the "canon" TNG crowd, there are arguments over what the 2 pods are on the sides of the TNG Saratoga. Some say they are phaser canon, some say they are long range sensor pods. Who's right? Flip a coin and pick your flavor, because you'll find evidence for both. The current group running the franchise has a nagging habit of inconsistancy.

The thing to keep in mind, gentlebeings, is to look at Star Trek like a salad bar: We take what we want to our paricular tastes, and leave the rest. Some of us recognize "canon" Trek, and so accept the Miranda, Saratoga, and other things. Some of us, including myself, prefer to follow Mastercom Data, or Jackill's Ship Identification Manuals, and other fan based data. And others prefer to follow Star Fleet Battles. Confused yet?  

Just keep one thing in mind: It's A Salad Bar.    

[nx_adam_1701]

I agree 150%, the klinks and feds are allies, they could of gone to the klinks and probably gotten one but remember the beef btwn the roms and feds would of gotten worse if the roms would of found out about the exchange of technology, thats why they most likely went directly to the roms instead, and as for the transporter its definetly an error in writing

adam out

[InragedSith]

Yes because of the treaty of Algeron the Feds couldn't get it from the klingons or else a Romulan fleet would cross the neutral zone the next day with hostile intentions  

[DonKarnage]

its anoying that the story is ramdom from anyone who wright the story, like is startrek enterprise the new old species that is nowhere since the future story, tos-tmp-tng-ds9 and voyager (the doctor in startrek enterprise), the cloaking and transporter problem ect, if these moron where able to keep in the story of event and ship the series and films will be more fun less confusing to the fans, hope that if the do a new startrek movie the wont screw it up like st-x with b4 the unknow brother of data (who is supose to be lore not that b4 weirdo).  

[Arcanum]

nifty site www.shipschematics.net, but this would make a really nice klingon attack ship . . back dated alittle and using the KCX mod as a basis . .http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/klingon/battlecruiser_hellwark.jpg

interesting discussion though, and ships in star trek are problematic, mostly due to, as someone put it sloppy writting and lazy ship design (at production) witness in a TNG episode the phasers can fire out of the torpedo tubes!!!  ie the roms didnt have cloak until the TOS episode Balance of Terror, yet in Enterprise:Lame Trek (but the ship was sweet) they have cloak, also first contact resulted in WAR, Styles (navigator in TOS:blance of terror episode says his great great grandad was part of that war serving on a starship). Never mind the fact that the klingons have photon torpedoes in this period as well.

The problem of the cloaking device, well we all know that Kirk and company snatched one from a 3 ship KCR squadron and got away (Spock gets the girl this time). From a military standpoint it is highly unlikely that anyone obtaining this technology would give it up. It may not be installed or use as per that treaty, but it is likely that Fed Scientists would continue to work with it as we see from the Pegasus Incident.  Even after that happening, cloaking technology would exist and so would the counter measures to it. Which in my opinion is what the idealistic federation would be doing using that original cloaking device to help develop cloaking counter measures WHICH would be installed on federation ships to detect those pesky rommies.

arcanum



 

[Magnum357]

Agreed.  This is one reason why I like Starfleet Battles.  Ya, its not Cannon Star Trek, but at least it tried dam hard too stay consistant.  That is why I lilke bulding SFB models that are not Cannon Star Trek at all.  I like too give them a TMPish feel too them, but I don't like making Cannon Star Trek ships for SFB.  It just confuses people I think, especially for SFB newbies.