Topic: phaser question?  (Read 8642 times)

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DonKarnage

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phaser question?
« on: January 11, 2004, 10:59:43 am »
in st2 the wofk what is the megaphaser that the avenger class reliant have?, is it the g  the g2 the the a or b or y?, there nothing about that so i was wondering what type of phaser could do such damage to the enterprise hull????, also  i was wondering the fdn (tos) have 2 deflector dish 1 in front and 1 in the back, plus the shuttle bay is in front, so in the mod pack the heavy battlecruiser starleague class should be the real tmp federation class dreadnought not the one like wz made (its still a good ship) but its not the real federation class. its just a simple fact  

Bernard Guignard

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2004, 01:28:45 pm »
Quote:

in st2 the wofk what is the megaphaser that the avenger class reliant have?, is it the g  the g2 the the a or b or y?, there nothing about that so i was wondering what type of phaser could do such damage to the enterprise hull????, also  i was wondering the fdn (tos) have 2 deflector dish 1 in front and 1 in the back, plus the shuttle bay is in front, so in the mod pack the heavy battlecruiser starleague class should be the real tmp federation class dreadnought not the one like wz made (its still a good ship) but its not the real federation class. its just a simple fact    




Jeez Don that's a loaded question we were never told what type of phasers they were and the fact that Khan was firing
at an unshielded ship means that they might have been the weakest type of phasers around to create that damage. Keep in mind that according to franz Joseph's Technical manual. The Federation class dreadnought was never built to its TOS Specifications there might have been a change in the design making the ship look more like the TMP Federation class from
the Starship Design manual. In the end its what ship design your happy with to play in the modded universe.      

DonKarnage

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2004, 05:56:40 pm »
sure but since it was the megapaher that shoot it must be something more that basic phaser, you can see when kirk shoot back the damage was not as high as when the reliant have fire on the enterprise, sure the enterprise was not as close but still the damage was on the impulse engine or near it, so the reliant never use the normal phaser on the enterprise just the mega phase. i will aslo ask another question on the forum for another ship.

Fury_of_a_Seraph

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2004, 06:22:51 pm »
Quote:

sure but since it was the megapaher that shoot it must be something more that basic phaser, you can see when kirk shoot back the damage was not as high as when the reliant have fire on the enterprise, sure the enterprise was not as close but still the damage was on the impulse engine or near it, so the reliant never use the normal phaser on the enterprise just the mega phase. i will aslo ask another question on the forum for another ship.  




Personally, i am of the belief that the Miranda/Avenger has no Mega-Phaser.
As far as TWoK goes, take these things into consideration.

1) when the Reliant fires on the Enterprise, her shields had not gone up yet
2) when the enterprise was firing on the Reliant, she was in a weakened state of power
3) think of when the enterprise blew the nacelle of the Reliant

4) personally, i think the phaseres of the Enterprise and the Reliant were equally matched, maybe a slight amount in the Enterprise on the Saucer phasers, and Perhaps the Top-phasers on the Reliant (the so called Mega-Phasers) are a bit more powerful than those on the Enterprise, but not enough for them to be considered Mega-Phasers

Magnum357

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2004, 07:21:26 pm »
Ya, I kinda agree.  I find it hard too beleive that the Mirandas could handle a Mega Phaser on such a small hull.  I kinda want too consider the weapons as a standard Phaser (maybe even a Type 3 Defense Phaser from SFB).  When Savik says that the Reliant Outguns the Enterprise, you got too remember that the Enterprise suffered major Damage earlier, most of the damage on Power systems.  If those Phasers are just normal Phasers, with the weakened state of the Enterprise, its battle value was not as high as the Reliants (even if those side Phasers where mere SFB type PH3's).  According too the Daystrom institute, the Mirandas are basically Destroyers (maybe Light Crusiers) while the Constitutions where starting too get so old and obsolete that they really where not much of a Heavy Crusier anymore (which is why the Enterprise was regulated too mostly Long Range Cadet Training in Federation Space).  

Now you might say "well then what replaced the Constitutions at this time?".  Well we really are not sure.  Its possible the Excelcior Class might have, but I kinda want too think the Excelciors more as a DN/BCH then a CL/CA.  Its possible another new Heavy Crusier could have replaced the aging Constitutions, maybe the Constellation Class (Star Gazer) or another possible Crusier the we never was able too see.  

Anyway, I don't think those Phasers where Mega Phasers, but just additional Phasers added too the intitial Design.  We see a Ton of different Variants of the Mirandas so adding a couple more Phaser Mounts would not have been hard too do.

SPQR Renegade001

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2004, 07:22:02 pm »
Consider too that aside from the point blank range and lack of shielding, Khan had studied the detailed schematics of both the original and the refit Enterprise. He was a man of superior intelect, and would have known week points in both the ship and her crew. He had access to the Enterprise's duty roster, and would likely have know that it was maned by a trainee crew (to call them "green" would have been a compliment at that point). He didn't need to cause major structural damage to the ship, simply to disrupt it's operations and power distribution.

 
Quote:

Spock: They knew exactly where to hit us.




Given a vetran crew that knew what needed doing and didn't need leaders to tell them to do the job, it's quite possible that the damage could have been repaired in a mater of hours. With the trainee crew, the chain of command would have spent more time assessing damage and mustering damage control teams, than actually repairing it.
   

DonKarnage

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2004, 10:28:25 pm »
hmmm so none of use know if its mega phaser or not

well anyway i will consider theme to be small like g2 phaser (other wise there useless) since the miranda/reliant have phaser on the hull like the enterprise, for what ship was going to replace the constitution well its would have ben the excelsior since in tsfp st3 when the enterprise return to spacedock the experimental excelsior was ready to be lunch so it must have ben the next class. or another refit constitution class since in st4 at the end the got a new enterprise constitution class thet needed to be finetune (scotty was busy fixing everything on the ship in st5)

Fury_of_a_Seraph

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2004, 10:55:29 pm »
Quote:

hmmm so none of use know if its mega phaser or not

well anyway i will consider theme to be small like g2 phaser (other wise there useless) since the miranda/reliant have phaser on the hull like the enterprise, for what ship was going to replace the constitution well its would have ben the excelsior since in tsfp st3 when the enterprise return to spacedock the experimental excelsior was ready to be lunch so it must have ben the next class. or another refit constitution class since in st4 at the end the got a new enterprise constitution class thet needed to be finetune (scotty was busy fixing everything on the ship in st5)  




No there has to be something in between the Connie and the Excelsior.
Think about it, The Ent - the FLAGSHIP of its time, was reduced to a training vessel well before the PROTOTYPE Excelsior came out. There had to be an intermediary, and i like the Constellation idea. Either that or the Refit Connie and the Connie2 are very different in capabilities

nx_adam_1701

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2004, 11:07:12 pm »
I believe in my opinion that the miranda is atleast equal in strength or alittle higher than that of the constitution class because for one reason her class type is Miranda Class New Heavycruiser almost sounds like a replacement title, not to mention her specs included stronger shields than the enterprise but like others said the shields were down, it did do significant damage for her to withdraw but she still managed to get a couple of phasers shots, and engines were still up, and etc... in my mod the Miranda is alittle slightly more powerful and not even in weapons maybe a phaser or so, but more shields and etc...

adam out

nx_adam_1701

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2004, 11:13:34 pm »
I dont think it a mega phaser, everyone knows that the phasers aboard a fed in that time were usually in the saucer section, and in DS9 Paradise Lost, you can see the Lakota bend down alittle to be able to fire on the defiant, it seems to me that those tmp ships had phaser either Forward Ventral or dorsal and Starboard\port ventral or dorsal, they had to use a certain angle to get the phasers targetted right, instead of mega phasers it looks like just regular phasers that have the capacity to fire forward and aft and sideways without having to tilt, or something like that

adam out
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by nx_adam_1701 »

Marauth

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2004, 09:26:34 am »
The Miranda is not a NCA, in SFC they made it the NCL/NCa because they're cheap gits who couldn't be arsed to make a separate NCA model. Besides which the NCAs in SFB are cheap, slightly less capable ships than the CA/CCs but which are much much easier to produce and so can be built in huge numbers.

Also you gotta think about the age of the Mirandas, their registries are only about 100 higher than the Constitution registries, they probably originate from a TOS version (like the Surya or Coventry from the manuals) and so would themselves be a good 35 to 40 years old by the time of ST2. The Constellations wouldn't be that much younger (NCC-1974 for the Constellation herself)

About the Constitution replacement, the average lifespan of Federation ships seems inordinately long - the Mirandas lasting well over a century and the Excelsiors almost as long. The Ambassadors lasted about 60 years before the Galaxy arrived to take over. I don't think all the connies would have been relegated to training duty like the big-E as the oldest Connies in the fleet were at the tim under 40 years old, assuming they built more than the initial batch of however many ships then some would be quite spritely - maybe 25 or 30 years old.

Or you could just design another ship to replace the Connie yourself...

Fury_of_a_Seraph

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2004, 10:43:36 am »
So, let me try and refine a few thoughts here.

1) The Original Constition, THe Constitution Refit, and the Constitution 2 are all seperate ships: increasing in power from oldest to youngest.
2) The Surya, Surya-Refit (Which is what the Reliant was), and the Miranda are all seperate ships: increasing in power from oldest to youngest.

Why i think as such.

1) IF the Enterprise was assigned to Academy Duty, why would they build/recristen the Enterprise-A. Also, why would that ship be used for such an important mission as to escort the chancellor of the klingon high council. As such i believe that the Constitution Refit and the Constition 2 are in fact very different in capability and power

2) Uniformity, i think all ships went through this process. The Federation, to the Federation-Refit, to the Star League....Saladin, to Saladin-Refit, to Siva, so and and so forth. I mean hell, look at the uniforms even.  There was a comic i was browsing through, and Will Decker had come on baord the NON-REFITTED enterprise. He was wearing the Pajama uniforms (in fact scotty didnt like em), this means that while kirk was on his 5-year mission, many renovations were going on.

3) The Surya-Refit vs. The Connie-Refit. Yes i am of the belief, following this progression that the Reliant was indeed a Surya Refit, NOT a Miranda-class.  Reasons why i think the RELIANT was a Surya-Refit:

A) it was assigned to a scientific team, not the front lines.
B) it would be outgunned by the ENT (see below)
C) again, progression of the TYPE-1 > TYPE-1-Refit > TYPE 2 scheme

This is mind, the Connie-refit should out-gun the Surya-Refit. The reason why it didnt in TWoK follow:

A) Trannee Crew on ENT
B) Hardened crew on REL
C) ENT was on Minimal power when it attacked the REL
D) the attaack was unexpected, and the ENT didnt have time to raise its shields.

Chrystoff

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2004, 12:51:37 pm »
According to "The Ships of the Starfleet" (Mastercom Data) here are the weapon loadouts for the vessels in question:

1. Enterprise (Refit):
Phasers: 6 banks of Augusta Ansadado RIM-12C Twin Mount
Phasers: 6 banks of 1 Augusta Ansadado RIM-14B Single Mount
Photon Torpedoes: 2 Skat-Rar MK 6 Launcher (Forward Only)

2. Reliant
Phasers: 6 banks of Augusta Ansadado RIM-12C Twin Mount
Phasers: 2 Asakaze Ordanance Systems "Emperor 60" Multi Directional Mega-Phaser Canon (MDPC)
Photon Torpedoes: 4 Skat-Rar MK 22 Launcher (2 Forward, 2 Aft)

It's up to you if you want to go with Mastercom Data sources, or not. I prefer them, because they are very exact, and have logical explanations for development of ship systems. Enterprise was the more powerful ship, with more powerful engines, greater range, and more power for the sheilds. The Reliant was no joke either, but empahasis placed on greater hanger space, heavy weapons, and low profile. The Enterprise makes up for the lack of megaphasers and aft firing torpedoes with excellent phaser coverage (18 banks total), with the energy to power them.

 

Fury_of_a_Seraph

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2004, 04:40:03 pm »
Personally, i still dont think the Miranda or in this case Surya-Refit (if its my own pricate universe) should have mega-phasers.

I'll grant that the Miranda should at least have more powerful phasers on the roll bar, (maybe 1.5 times as powerful as the saucer phasers), but not MEGA-phasers.

DonKarnage

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2004, 05:34:48 pm »
Quote:

According to "The Ships of the Starfleet" (Mastercom Data) here are the weapon loadouts for the vessels in question:

1. Enterprise (Refit):
Phasers: 6 banks of Augusta Ansadado RIM-12C Twin Mount
Phasers: 6 banks of 1 Augusta Ansadado RIM-14B Single Mount
Photon Torpedoes: 2 Skat-Rar MK 6 Launcher (Forward Only)

2. Reliant
Phasers: 6 banks of Augusta Ansadado RIM-12C Twin Mount
Phasers: 2 Asakaze Ordanance Systems "Emperor 60" Multi Directional Mega-Phaser Canon (MDPC)
Photon Torpedoes: 4 Skat-Rar MK 22 Launcher (2 Forward, 2 Aft)

It's up to you if you want to go with Mastercom Data sources, or not. I prefer them, because they are very exact, and have logical explanations for development of ship systems. Enterprise was the more powerful ship, with more powerful engines, greater range, and more power for the sheilds. The Reliant was no joke either, but empahasis placed on greater hanger space, heavy weapons, and low profile. The Enterprise makes up for the lack of megaphasers and aft firing torpedoes with excellent phaser coverage (18 banks total), with the energy to power them.

   





well its official but for the game what type of megaphaser is it?, the g the g2 the a the b or is it the y?, don't think its too big required too much that why its only on starbase for defence.

do you have more data like that, like for the belknap/decatur ect



 

Chrystoff

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2004, 06:02:20 pm »
Quote:

 well its official but for the game what type of megaphaser is it?, the g the g2 the a the b or is it the y?, don't think its too big required too much that why its only on starbase for defence.

do you have more data like that, like for the belknap/decatur ect




I personally arm my NCC with 6 Type 1's (2fa, 2rs, 2ls), 6 Torpedoes (3 FARA, 3 FARA). For the megphasers, I use 4 phaser A's (2ls, 2rs). But, that's me.

I have Volume One of Ships of the Starfleet (revised), Starfleet Dynamics, and The Akyazi Class Perimeter Action Ship Specs. I am certain there are sources on the internet that have this info in readily availble form. Try this one: http://www.asdb.net/asdb/publications.htm
 

nx_adam_1701

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2004, 09:40:43 pm »
I think I stated in the above its my OPINION that the Miranda is more powerful and better than the OLD constitiution, whether its a fact or not ohhh well I dont care

adam out

nx_adam_1701

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2004, 09:42:52 pm »
Thanks for the info, very interesting, Im definetly going make some changes, thanks bro

adam out

Chrystoff

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2004, 10:05:38 pm »
Quote:

Thanks for the info, very interesting, Im definetly going make some changes, thanks bro

adam out  



No Problemo! Have fun! I love posts like this. You get to see a lot of different viewpoints.  

nx_adam_1701

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2004, 01:32:22 am »
Where can I get that info from online or books

adam oug

Magnum357

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2004, 02:04:38 am »
Its really hard too say with this one.  Here is another one of those Inconsistancies that occurs in Star Trek.  That is why I always liked TNG and DS9, the inconsistancies where at a minimum.

As for the Miranda being a Surya, its very possible.  the Regestry number is not much higher then the Connies so that theory could easily fit.  And we all know that their was only 12-14 Connies built during the TOS era, but that doesn't nessessarly mean that Starfleet never built anymore then that.  I suppose that Starfleet could have easily just copied the whole Connie design (after the Refit of the Enterprise and other suriving Connies in the 2270's) and remanufactor the class again with updated systems.  The only problem I have with that is just by the fact that in ST1, it seems that the initial design was pushed too its absolute limit in capabilities.  Ya, ST5 and ST6 shows that the Constition 2's has some vastly different internal restructuring then the Refitted Connies of the 2270's, but it seems that overall the Connies never really got any more then minor additional Capabilites.  That is why I suggested that Starfleet might have considered a new Crusier design too replace the Connies.  The Constellations could be a very good canidate for this as it seems Starfleet jam-packed a lot of additional systems into the Consellations (4 warp engines, much more impulse power, lots of scanner devices, lots of additional Phaser mounts and possible extra Torpedo mounts, etc.), or its possible another type of crusier was developed too have as a "go-between" for the planned Excelcior Class and the Mirandas.

I personally have a theory why we see sooooo many Mirandas in the TNG era is possibly due too ship yards within the Federation.  I also think I may have an explanation in why the Regestry number is so close too the Constitions.  One possible theory on why the Reliant has such a low Regestry number is that it originally was a Surya at one time but was heavily refitted just like the Enterprise.  If I recall from our own navy, Ship production is planned well in advanced with plans, hull regestries and even ship names already preplanned well before the keel of the ship is even layed out in the ship yard.  Do you realize guys that our US navy already has on the books 30 new destroyers (forgot the class name) that will star construction in the next couple of years?  It will take rougly a decade too get all 30 constructed but they are designed with the latest technology and are planned too be in use for the next 40-50 years and are planned too replace a lot of the old destroyers in our navey that where built during the 60's and 70's.  I think Starfleet might have had a similar approach.  According to the TOS tech manual, it shows a DN, the Connie, and a DD/scout (the Salidin Class).  Its possible that Starfleet contracted somebody too start making 4 type of ships back in the early 23rd century and all would be built around the same time.  The DN, the Connie, the Surya, and the Salidins might have been all pre-planned well in advanced and the larger the ship, the less would be made.  For example, Their would only be a handful of DN's, about 15 planned Connies, maybe 50 tops of the Suryas and possibly 80-100 Salidins.  As we can see, all these ships seem too have common components which means that they possibly all came from the same shipyards.  When the Refit stage came buy for these ships (2270) whatever ships that where left of this run of ships, were refitted with the new Technology.  The Reliant Might have been one of these Refitted ships and why its regestry number is so close too the Constitutions and so low.  During and after this refit stage, Starfleet might have ran into an economic and logistics problem.  Starfleet did a remarkable job refitting the old vessels over too new Tech, but a need for new Ships too fill roles/losses would have too be made.  Granted, Starfleet could have just copied the Post-refit designs and run carbon copies of the design with bran new ships (aka, new refitted Connies, Suryas, Salidines) but its possible growing threats from Klingons and Romulans and advancing technology forced Starfleet too rethink new ship designs.  The Connies where great ships, but cost a lot too build and took some time too construct aswell (the DN's could fall into this catagory aswell).  The Salidines were very cost productive as they were small and cheap too produced, but hampered with design problems (lack of warp speed, low power for weapons and systems).  The Suyras (Mirandas after the Refit stage) where the only designs left that could take advantage of both being fairly cheap too produce in large numbers, and have some capabilities as a Connies would have.  So if Starfleet was too scrape the initial designs of the other three ships and keep producing Suyras/Mirandas, this frees up a lot of ship yards to concentrate on building Mirandas, while Starfleet could design a new ships too fill roles.  The Its possible the Excelcior concept was started not long after the Refit stage, and Starfleet might have wanted this ship too be a type of Dreadnought or possibly a "Super Crusier" too fill that role.  The Mirandas could fill the Destroyer role for combat purposes, but Starfleet would need too have some sort of crusier available too fill inbetween the Mirandas and Excelciors.  The Constellations could very well be this ship (mabye another class we never saw).  The ships is loaded with systems that looks too outweight the Connies.  Its possible Starfleet wanted too use existing technology (as it would be cheaper then using Advanced excelcior tech) so that the class could easily fill the role of heavy Crusier with lots of capabilites (the "Poor mans Crusier").  Not only is using existing tech a cheap alternative, but since many of the components are very similar too components used to build Mirandas, it would be easy too use one of the Miranda ship yards too build Constellations.  

Holy Cow!  That was a lot of crap I just wrote.  Keep in mind people that this is just a hypothetical theory and I'm not referencing anything.  It just seems too me that the Mirandas where a fairly cheap vessel too produce and one way too make a vessel cheap too produce and build high numbers with is too free up a lot facilities that would build other vessels.  And the Constellations seems too use many parts that Mirandas uses so its logical too assume that the Constellations where somewhat easy too produce too (at least compared too a sophisticated Connie).    

Chrystoff

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2004, 10:18:49 am »
Unfortunately, the books are the best resource, and they are extremely rare. The best ones are anything by Mastercom Data, and anything by Jackill. I have looked on EBAY for these books, and I always narrowly miss them. It's quite aggravating.  

DonKarnage

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2004, 11:05:53 am »
Quote:

Quote:

 well its official but for the game what type of megaphaser is it?, the g the g2 the a the b or is it the y?, don't think its too big required too much that why its only on starbase for defence.

do you have more data like that, like for the belknap/decatur ect




I personally arm my NCC with 6 Type 1's (2fa, 2rs, 2ls), 6 Torpedoes (3 FARA, 3 FARA). For the megphasers, I use 4 phaser A's (2ls, 2rs). But, that's me.

I have Volume One of Ships of the Starfleet (revised), Starfleet Dynamics, and The Akyazi Class Perimeter Action Ship Specs. I am certain there are sources on the internet that have this info in readily availble form. Try this one: http://www.asdb.net/asdb/publications.htm
 




when i click on the link on that page  web page   i see only a blank page

DonKarnage

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2004, 11:24:33 am »
Quote:

Quote:

 well its official but for the game what type of megaphaser is it?, the g the g2 the a the b or is it the y?, don't think its too big required too much that why its only on starbase for defence.

do you have more data like that, like for the belknap/decatur ect




I personally arm my NCC with 6 Type 1's (2fa, 2rs, 2ls), 6 Torpedoes (3 FARA, 3 FARA). For the megphasers, I use 4 phaser A's (2ls, 2rs). But, that's me.

I have Volume One of Ships of the Starfleet (revised), Starfleet Dynamics, and The Akyazi Class Perimeter Action Ship Specs. I am certain there are sources on the internet that have this info in readily availble form. Try this one: http://www.asdb.net/asdb/publications.htm
 




for the miranda class i have the

uss miranda ncc1830 fncm  mk-1

uss avenger ncc1860 fncl  mk-1

uss reliant ncc1864 fncl+  mk-1

uss renown ncc1870 fncd  mk-2

and

uss saratoga ncc1937 fncd+ mk-2

so since the miranda avenger and reliant are mk-1 the have the mega phaser a so if the renown and saratoga are mk-2 the must have the mega phaser b , so since the miranda is a fncm and avenger and reliant are fncl and fncl+ what does the fncm fnct and fncd mean?, f for fed n for new c for cruiser and l for light and d for drone? wz have made what cold be a mk-3 by replacing the torpedo pod by a drone rack, so that make a real drone cruiser.  *confusing*  

 

Chrystoff

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2004, 12:16:52 pm »
Confusing is right, Don. All you can do is do what makes the most sense to you. Does anyone else reading this post have ideas on how they arm their NCL's?

I have no idea why that link doesn't function, Don. It takes me right to the ASDB website. I don't know what to say on that one. I'll see if I can locate some other simular sources.  

DonKarnage

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2004, 02:17:38 pm »
when i click on the link on the site i get i lost page and for the image of the cover book i got an icon of a image only (it may be windows) anyway i will format my main hd cause i did have a problem with win xp, was unable to open anythink that was microsoft and i have reinstall windows under a new name but i still have the old windows on the hd plus a lot of scap that need to be remove.

i was wondering if those who play sfc2/op need the cd to play single?, just wondering  

Chrystoff

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2004, 02:49:16 pm »
Quote:

 i was wondering if those who play sfc2/op need the cd to play single?, just wondering    



I don't need the CD to play single.  

Khaliban

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2004, 12:08:54 am »
Just thought I'd mention, most people miss a couple of phasers on the Miranda.  i didn't notice them myself until I started working on the model.  See highlighted area in the picture below.

 

nx_adam_1701

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2004, 02:42:20 am »
Holy crap, thanks, this helps alot, first it was the miranda in the lead, then the constitution, and now the miranda, im so confused im just going to roll a dice, even for constitution, odd for miranda


adam out

SPQR Renegade001

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2004, 09:34:47 am »
Quote:

Holy crap, thanks, this helps alot, first it was the miranda in the lead, then the constitution, and now the miranda, im so confused im just going to roll a dice, even for constitution, odd for miranda
 




Empires do not always replace something with a bigger more powerful thing.
If the Federation could build Mirandas at 2/3 the cost, for a ship only slightly inferior, it'd be a no brainer for me.

On the same thought, the US Army is looking to make the M1x Abrahms obsolete with the far less powerful LAV, hoping that the improved maneuverability, faster deploy time and lighter supply tail will make for a superior weapon on the modern battlefield.  

Fury_of_a_Seraph

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2004, 10:37:59 am »
I thought those were running lights.

Magnum357

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2004, 11:20:15 am »
Ya, I though so too.  Like stated above, even if the Mirandas are only about 80-90% combat effective compared too a Connies, if Mirandas cost 2/3 the price and can be constructed 33% faster then a Connie, then the Mirandas in that respect are logistically superior too the Connies.  

I didn't know that the Army was thinking about phasing out the M1's, but again it makes much better sense too.  M1's are gasss hogs and are much more expensive too build then Bradlys.  The only real good advantage with the M1's is that they provide excellent fire support from its main gun, and its a tough mother too take out with such heavy armor.  But even in the war in Iraq, I remember seeing one of our M1's cripples/destroyed due too just a massive amount of RPG hitting it.  One RPG hitting an M1 would barely scratch it, but if you kept hitting it with 50 too 100 of them, even an M1 isn't indistructable.  And RPG costs maybe a few thousand dollars too make, while an M1 I beleive costs millions.  Bradlys have less Armor too protect itself against RPG's, but are cheaper too produce.  Also, I think the Army is counting on that a Bradly can handle most Battle tanks we see today.  A Bradly with its high Manuvering and speed plus a high rate of fire with its cannon can still probably go toe to toe with a T-72.

SPQR Renegade001

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2004, 11:56:16 am »
Quote:

I didn't know that the Army was thinking about phasing out the M1's




It's an ongoing debate between the old school minds fearing WWIII and the new school who say that conventional entrenched battlefield warfare is a thing of the past. Depending on your source and the phase of the moon, either the M1 or the LAV is toast, or they'll both share a role in the army of the future. Who knows what's really gonna happen.  

Anthony_Scott

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Re: phaser question?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2004, 02:53:21 pm »
Quote:

Unfortunately, the books are the best resource, and they are extremely rare. The best ones are anything by Mastercom Data, and anything by Jackill. I have looked on EBAY for these books, and I always narrowly miss them. It's quite aggravating.    




I have the book about the Akayazi if you want it. Lemme know.

Semper Fi, Carry On

ganymad

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2004, 03:23:50 pm »
I never noticed the phasers below the impulse engines on the mirinda before.nice detailed shot! however.that would mean we have the following situation: constitution refit: 18 phasers and 2 photon tubes forward.mirinda: 14 phasers, 2 megaphaser cannons and 4 photon tubes.the mirinda is a beast! but i still think it should be at least slightly weaker than the conny. maybe less shielding.and the photon tubes: yes there are 4 tubes , but they should only have the capability to fire one torpedo each at a time. the conny can fire 2 photons from one tube in a row ( weve seen that in st6).
so i think they have about the same potential when it comes to torpedoes.the megaphasers shouldnt be too strong.
all in all the conny should have a btw about 10 points higher than the mirinda.

my idea.(i use phaser 2 on fed ships mostly, just for balance)
conny: 18 ph2 , 4 photon

mirinda 14 ph2, 4 photon, 2phX

i like phX for the megaphasers. more range and damage than the ph2 and the option to overload it. the cannons cover an 180 degrees angle each.

the fed ships i use at the moment ( im rebuilding my collection, since i was without a pc for the last 4 month!)
       class                   primary weapons  heavy weapons   additional weapons
fff     oberth                  2Ph2                      1Phot
fdd   salazar               12Ph2                      2Phot
fcl    baker                  16Ph2    
fncl  mirinda               14Ph2                      4Phot                 2PhX
fca   constitution         18Ph2                     4Phot
fcb   constellation        12Ph2                     8Phot                 2PhX
fbce excelsior             28Ph2                     6Phot
fdn   ulysses               24Ph2                     8Phot
ffa    lotus flower           6Ph2  
fcva  taldren xmmer     16Ph2                     6Phot                 Fighters





greatings from germany,



ed

Chrystoff

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2004, 03:32:39 pm »
Quote:

I have the book about the Akayazi if you want it. Lemme know.



I have the Akyazi book as well. But I really appreciate the offer!  

Khaliban

  • Guest
Re: phaser question?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2004, 06:58:20 pm »
My take on the phaser question.  Please note, this is not supported by anything but personal observation.  Any disagreement with sourcebooks will be largely ignored.

The Miranda and the Enterprise don't have 18 phasers.  They have 2.

Consider the terminology.  Phaser bank, primary phaser coil and phaser emitter.  Consider also the statement of Will Decker, that they are routed through the warp core to increase power.

In the WoK, we see the Miranda and the Enterprise both fire phasers, but not all of them.  It's not the spray of orange power you see in Klingon Academy.  Each pair of external emitters is normally viewed as an isolated phaser bank, but that doesn't make sense.  How could enemy weapon system be so easily shut down so, so frequently on ever series to date, with only a single phaser shot?  Because, phaser power is generated in the primary phaser coil, routed through the warp core, and emitted from the external phaser mounts.  When the weapons officer targets enemy phasers, they are targeting the phaser coil.

So, why phasers all over the ship?  Two reasons, arc of fire and back up for damage to another emitter.  Why paired emitters?  The Enterprise and the Miranda generate enough power to fire from two emitters simultaneously.  But no more than two.  As I recall, Khan needed three precision strikes on the Enterprise in the initial salvo.  He had three sets of paired emitters facing the Enterprise but only used one.  Why?  He could only fire from one.  Why the rolebar emitters?  They are the most precise.  They are designed to do the bulk of the ship to ship firing for the Miranda.  I'll explain why in a moment.

Where is the Miranda main deflector dish?  You can see it in the picture above just below the impulse engines.  Most people identify this as a back-up navigational deflector.  I'm sure many of you are shouting, "It can't be.  It needs to face forward."  No it doesn't.  The deflector generates a bubble around the ship.  You can put the deflector in any orientation, but forward is prefered.  So, why aim the deflector down?  Look at its size and location.  It is very protected from attack.  What effect would such a deflector design have?  It would significantly reduce the maximum speed of the ship.

What is the role of the Miranda?  We know the role of the Enterprise; long range exploration and fleet workhorse.  It has a massive deflector, forward set, and a long straight design ideal for speed and long range work.  Now look at the Miranda.  Same mass as the Enterprise but shorter, close engine placement and a low center of mass.  If the Enterprise is a greyhound, the Miranda is a bulldog.  It could turn more easily and has a larger impulse engine placed closer to the center of mass.  The Miranda is designed for close range workhorse duty and defense.  Look at the rolebar.  High and away from the ship.  It gives the phasers and the torpdoes maximum visibility.  It's not a warship.  Before the DS9 Defiant, the Federation didn't make warships.  But it is designed for combat and defense.  Like all Federation weapons in this era.  It does its best work close to the core systems and handles the workhorse duties in that area of space.

Which one would win?  In a race, the Enterprise.  In a fight, the Miranda.

So, what about the Excelsior?  Good question.  It has 5 paired emitters on its main dish, two more than is need in this theory.  The answer to that is simple.  With its heavier engines and greater power, the Excelsior is equipped with 4 phasers and can fire from 2 paired emitters simultaneously.  Phaser strips of TNG era are really tens or hundreds of small emitters linked together in series.

I can't believe you read all the way to the end of that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Khaliban »