Topic: USS Stargazer load out  (Read 3663 times)

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IndyShark

  • Guest
USS Stargazer load out
« on: January 04, 2004, 10:19:46 am »
Does anyone have any information on the USS Stargazer in SFC2? I'd like to know how how much power she would have, sheilds and weapons. With 4 warp drives, it would seem to have lots of power, but I understand it was not an effecient design.

Thanks all!  

Marauth

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2004, 11:02:46 am »
Erm, it only has one warp drive - it has four nacelles, that means nothing except it can cruise for a really long time by alternating between the top and bottom pair of nacelles. In SFB/C however warp engines produce power so it'd be roughly twice as much power as the Constitution Refit (though the nacelles are slightly different to those of the CR/Miranda.)

I dunno where you got that it was an inneficient design -  as I said at the start it's extremely efficient for cruising at high speeds as they can alternate between the nacelles or use all four presumably for a little burst of speed. Also with the expanded Connie-R saucer it'd have loads of space for labs and  superstructure plus that huge shuttle-bay would indicate large shuttle/fighter capacity (anyone thought about a carrier variant of the Constellation? )

The Constellation got some really bad publicity in TNG as it was always the old derelict vessel in every episode but really all those Mirandas and Excelsiors we see would be in pretty much the same cop, and think about the Connies themselves! (thanks to BOBW we now have Connie refits in TNG-era canon) But in the late TMP era the Constellation would be pretty much top of the line.

Kaenyne

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2004, 11:10:56 am »
"(thanks to BOBW we now have Connie refits in TNG-era canon)"

If I may ask, what is BOBW?

I had no idea Connies were in TNG. But it's cool to know...

Marauth

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2004, 11:45:37 am »
Best of Both Worlds - in the starship graveyard there's a very clear shot of the secondary hull and elsewhere the back hlaf of a saucer - it's just the studio model of the Enterprise they blew up for STIII split in half so they could have some more wreckage.

jimkirk

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2004, 11:59:38 am »
ou now what, I had a TNG marathon last time. During last three seasons Picard used to say that she was underpowered during combat operations... due to her warpcore which indeed was not giving her enough power... <See TNG: Relics - episode with Captain Scott from USS Enterprise 1701> Try these web sites:
http://www.ditl.org/   ( there are some fixed information because of the lack of real based from TNG)
www.ex-astris-scientia.org
This site is currently down, but it should be soon brought online (she is the best one I have seen, just wait)
techspecs.acalltoduty.com/personnel.html  

sandman69247

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2004, 12:30:07 pm »
Yes, Picard did say she was underpowered. But, at the same time, why would an underpowered ship still be in use in TNG? I just recently saw the episode where Picard was the arbiter of succesion and when he assembled his fleet to blockade the Romulan border, he had a Constellation in there with the rest of the newer ships. I think the speculation at ditl is pretty good...the warp core wasn't designed for the power requirements, so in order to fix the problem with stability, they had to redce the power output...but , with advances in warp technology, they were able to re-fit and bring to a more efficient power output. MY 2 cents.  

Core

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2004, 12:50:30 pm »
ok pepole you must be forgeting the litel fact that starfleet at the time of the epesods we are talking abult had a very limited amaunt of ships and was  still using the TMP ships out of nesesaty not choise and wher probably canabolising ships in there junk yard and stuf
and as for the constatution power out put its quite simple they replaist the warp core comlitly plus replaisted the EPS conduets and prubably upgraded the whepons sensors and drive systems to utilise the energy availabul whth grater afitiancy  

 

Magnum357

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2004, 02:18:35 pm »
"ok pepole you must be forgeting the litel fact that starfleet at the time of the epesods we are talking abult had a very limited amaunt of ships and was still using the TMP ships out of nesesaty not choise and wher probably canabolising ships in there junk yard and stuf"

WHAT???  This makes no sense.  Why would the Federation canabolis old TMP ships too make due?  During the TMP/TOS era their where fewer ships then their was by the mid 24th century, but I find it hard too beleive that the Federation had very few ships during the "Lost Era" (2300 - 2360).  I have too imagine that the their are other designs similar too the excelcior and Ambassador classes (maybe even other ships) that use similar technology to compensate for needed ships.  I could see refiting TMP ships with new technology and patching up damage and structure builds, but too literly tear apart old TMP ships and integrate them with New 24th century components would be a waste of time and resources when just refiting or building a new ship would be easier.  I think Core, you ware getting confused with the DS9 Tech Manual where it indicates that the Federation Canabolised old ships with new Tech in order too make up for heavy loses during the Dominion War.  This was an unconventional procedure, and most of the designs of the "Frankenstein Fleet" where for War purposes as the designs where not very effecient.  The Feds just wanted too get available units on the front too make up loses, they were not intended too be useful ships for other purposes.  besides, the Frankenstein Fleet designs required much more maintance.

As for specs for the Stargazer in SFC2, keep in mind that SFC2 is based on SFB rule procedures which are vastly different then Star Trek combat procedures (if their are any).  That is why SFC3 is much different then SFC2.  SFC3 is based on the Television show of TNG/DS9/VOY while SFC2 is based on the old board game of SFB.  If I was too put in a Constelation in SFC2, I would try to stay with SFB protocal, otherwise the ship will be TOO powerful.  For example, I would use 4 engines still but only make them about 10 in warp power, which is a total of 40 in warp power.  Impulse Power is greater too as it has 2 Impulse Engines available which probably translates too an Impuls power of 6 maybe even 8.  Even though the Constelations only have one Hull, it is very large and seems too acomadate more stuff then other Constitutions or Mirandas.  I would also use Center Hull for this because the space frame of the design seems very sturdy.  In SFB, Center hull ships can take more punishment before losing Warp Power then using 2 or more hulls.  As stated above, It seems that the ships could easily hold a lot of Lab facilities and might be one reason why the ships are still in active use today (just refitted with more modern Lab Facilities).  I also think its possible that the ship might have slightly more Transporters and Tractors given the extra space you are dealing with.  As for weapons, If i recall, their seemed too be a huge Photon Torpedo Assmbly on the bottom of the hull.  Although their much be the same amount of launchers as a standard Connie, its possible this whole assembly could be Turret assembly giving the ship great Photon Torpedo Arcs (much like a Plasma Turet assmbly).  Phaser suit might be almost the same setup as a Connie with possibly better firigng arcs and possibly a larger amount of PH-3 Defense Phaser available.  I think the sheilds for the Constelations are probably equivlent too the Connies (maybe slightly more).  SFB never totally explained what dictated how strong a ships sheild should be, it might have been based on the type of ship (like a Frigate versus a Destroyer).

As for specs for SFC3, I'm not sure as I have not messed with the files much with that game.  But the Daystrom Institutes website has a huge database of information and can easily be converted too SFC3 specs.  Its a good site, you should check it out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Magnum357 »

Terradyhne

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2004, 02:54:25 pm »
ok i don't know how to convert those specs into SFC but here they are

   

Core

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2004, 03:11:31 pm »
ok then how abult the fact that starfleet probably hd only 2 3 at the most constalation class ships in its fleet at the begining of the TNG era that by the way dose not includ the stargazer.

and do you remember the litel fact that starfleet liks doing redecoraiting in its ships and the re decor mit not be constraind to the frunitur and mite be expanded to internal systems and i think they do that alot in the 24th sentury
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Core »

Core

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2004, 03:11:49 pm »
sory for the duble post  
« Last Edit: January 04, 2004, 03:15:23 pm by Core »

Marauth

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2004, 03:57:42 pm »
Core, don't take this the wrong way, but it takes me longer to figure out what you are saying in one of your posts than it does for me to figure out a reply, just try and slow down a little bit when typing so you can get the spelling better, it's very hard to understand your posts. (I'm guessing english is not your first language so please don't be insulted or anything)

I totally get you on the 're-decorating) thing, it's well known that Starfleet keeps antiquated ships in service for nearly complete centuries - in the case of the connie and miranda, well over a century so it's just plain silly to assume the ships remain in the same form with the same internal systems throughout such a period. The refit of the Connies in the 2270s is a prime example of Starfleet updating the tech on existing ships to get more life out of them and I doubt the Mirandas/Excelsiors from DS9 are anything like the ones from Kirk's time.

I'd like to know where you get the 23 Constellation class ships in service figure from, if the class was rather unsuccessful then I can understand that they'd cut short the production run but it seems the class probably wasn't a failiure as they kept on using them and given the numbers of Mirandas and Excelsiors we've seen it's safe to say they probably built Constellations in their hundreds as they would have essentially the same tech and internal systems as the ships from their era. That said there've only been 4 canon Constellation class ships that have been names - Constellation, Stargazer, Hathaway and Valkyrie - and the Valkyrie is only what they painted on the studio model for an exibition they did (I went to it when it was on in London and they mounted the Constellation upside-down! LOLOL

IndyShark

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2004, 04:21:35 pm »
Wow, thanks for all of the replies! This is very interesting.

ganymad

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2004, 05:15:49 pm »
Maybe my constellationspecs will help u. i use it as a fcb. compared to my fca constitution specs (conny specs in brackets!)
(model:moonraker/nightstorm retextured with p81fca textures by hig hurtenflurst and the ducttapewonder)

Constellation                                      (Constitution Refit)

+general:

hull:ca                                                (ca)
special role:c
balance:1                                            (1)
ship cost:6                                          (5)

+power/systems

centerwarp: 40                                    (40)
impulse engines:10                              (5)
apr:2                                                   (2)
battery:2                                             (2)
 
bridge:7                                              (5)
lab:8                                                   (8)
transporters:4                                      (3)
tractors:2                                            (1)

size class:3                                        (3)
turn mode:d                                        (d)
move cost:1.3                                    (1.1)                                      
acceleration:9                                     (9)
het+2/nimble:1                                    (1)
het breakdown:4                                  (4)
explosion:22                                      (20)

sensors:7                                           (6)
special sensors: 6                               (5)
scanners:7                                         (6)
repair:1                                               (1)
damage control:8                                (6)                                  
probes:2                                             (2)

shield 1:    40                                     (40)
shield 2;6: 40                                     (40)
shield 3;5: 40                                     (40)
shield 4:    40                                     (40)

+hull/shuttle/crew

forward hull: 12                                   (10)
center hull:8                                       (10)
rear hull 8                                           (4)
armor:2                                              (2)
excess damage:8                                (6)

regular crew:44                                   (42)
minimum:5                                          (5)
boarding parties base: 5                       (5)
boarding parties:        10                      (10)
shuttle bay size:         6                        (4)
max shuttles:             6                        (4)
base shuttles:            6                        (4)
launch rate:4                                        (1)

+weapons:

primary weapons
hp:11:4 ph2 fa                                 (4 ph2 fa)
hp:12:4 ph2 frr                                 (4 ph2 frr)
hp:13:4 ph2 fll                                  (4 ph2 fll)
hp:16:1 phx fa                                 (4 ph2 all)
hp:17:1 phx fa                                 (4 ph2 ra)

heavy weapons
hp:1:2 phot fa                                  (2 phot fa)
hp:2:2 phot fa                                  (2 phot fa)
hp:3:2 phot fa
hp:4:2 phot fa

t-bombs base:0                                  (0)
t-bombs max:10                                 (10)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by ganymad »

Primus2003

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2004, 08:49:05 am »
Quote:

Maybe my constellationspecs will help u. i use it as a fcb. compared to my fca constitution specs (conny specs in brackets!)
(model:moonraker/nightstorm retextured with p81fca textures by hig hurtenflurst and the ducttapewonder)

Constellation                                      (Constitution Refit)

+general:

hull:ca                                                (ca)
special role:c
balance:1                                            (1)
ship cost:6                                          (5)

+power/systems

centerwarp: 40                                    (40)
impulse engines:10                              (5)
apr:2                                                   (2)
battery:2                                             (2)
 
bridge:7                                              (5)
lab:8                                                   (8)
transporters:4                                      (3)
tractors:2                                            (1)

size class:3                                        (3)
turn mode:d                                        (d)
move cost:1.3                                    (1.1)                                      
acceleration:9                                     (9)
het+2/nimble:1                                    (1)
het breakdown:4                                  (4)
explosion:22                                      (20)

sensors:7                                           (6)
special sensors: 6                               (5)
scanners:7                                         (6)
repair:1                                               (1)
damage control:8                                (6)                                  
probes:2                                             (2)

shield 1:    40                                     (40)
shield 2;6: 40                                     (40)
shield 3;5: 40                                     (40)
shield 4:    40                                     (40)

+hull/shuttle/crew

forward hull: 12                                   (10)
center hull:8                                       (10)
rear hull 8                                           (4)
armor:2                                              (2)
excess damage:8                                (6)

regular crew:44                                   (42)
minimum:5                                          (5)
boarding parties base: 5                       (5)
boarding parties:        10                      (10)
shuttle bay size:         6                        (4)
max shuttles:             6                        (4)
base shuttles:            6                        (4)
launch rate:4                                        (1)

+weapons:

primary weapons
hp:11:4 ph2 fa                                 (4 ph2 fa)
hp:12:4 ph2 frr                                 (4 ph2 frr)
hp:13:4 ph2 fll                                  (4 ph2 fll)
hp:16:1 phx fa                                 (4 ph2 all)
hp:17:1 phx fa                                 (4 ph2 ra)

heavy weapons
hp:1:2 phot fa                                  (2 phot fa)
hp:2:2 phot fa                                  (2 phot fa)
hp:3:2 phot fa
hp:4:2 phot fa

t-bombs base:0                                  (0)
t-bombs max:10                                 (10)  




Thank you Ganymad for putting up the stats for SFC.  I have been looking for those for a while to make my own Constellation class ship.    I also have the skin from DTW for the Constellation class and I am looking forward to using her.Just why did you rebraket some of the stats such as 2 phot fa and some only once?  I admit it is probably nothing but simply curious nevertheless.

ganymad

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2004, 09:17:36 am »
the specs in the brackets show the constitution refit specs for comparisom. on some points the constellation has some funtions and systems the conny refit dont have so there is no need to put something into brackets.
if u like your specs close to canon(most important fact that klingons use disruptors and not phasers) and u want it a little more balanced u should change the left and right phaser arcs from frr and fll to sfbr and sfb left( that doesnt work in ship edit , u have to do it manualy in the shiplist). and u should change the phx to ph1.

have fun.

jimkirk

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2004, 04:55:51 am »
W odpowiedzi na:

Yes, Picard did say she was underpowered. But, at the same time, why would an underpowered ship still be in use in TNG?




Just guess. The ships hull was old and not as so efficient as modern ships hulls. The Starfleet Command decided that it would be to expensive to upgrade Constellation class vessels with new type of more efficient Warpcore (The same situation was with USS Lakota B-type Excelsior which was the only vessel so far being refitted. Unfortunately such refits left her still inferior to USS Defiant - logically Starfleet Command decided to abandon this project. Reference: DS9 "Paradise Lost - 4x13 or 4x12). Nevertheless I don't remember when but someone mentioned in TNG that there are only few Constellation class vessels in use. The Hathaway was brought into servise for battle simulations in TNG: Peak Performance.
Other Constellation class vessels were brought again into service because of the lack of vessels after and during Wolf 359 battle with the Borg.
I know there are many concerns about those ships, but they're out of date in TNG and served only for a purpose of sustaining Starfleet's power after Wolf 359 event and during DominionWar. It takes some time to produce new Starships to assemble a new fleet after such losses which happened to Starfleet.
I now what kind of episode you are talking about. This episode, rather two episodes are called "Redemption". And in this episode Constellation class vessel was used because of the lack of vessels near Klingon border. Picard needed to assemble a fleet really fast (Even USS Shutterland - Nebula class Starship was not fully operational).
So this is the only reasonable answer for your question.  

jimkirk

  • Guest
Re: USS Stargazer load out
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2004, 05:00:34 am »
BTW here another good site: grab the links:

http://www.asdb.net/asdb/publications.htm

http://www.asdb.net/asdb/datasheets.htm

You will find there some data of Constellation class. Rather true one.
I want to appologise for spoiling TNG episodes in my last post It wont happen again