Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8734 times)

FireSoul · « **Reply #40 on:** December 27, 2003, 12:18:38 pm »

Quote:

Found it in R5:Battleships. Of all places?

The description for the L-CVA marks it as conjectural. One was never built.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 27, 2003, 07:50:29 pm »

Indeed! I never could understand why TFG were affraid of making "Conjectural" designs offical? Was it due too Gameplay Balance issues or due too the fact they might have had to rewrite some SFB history which means higher chance of rule conflicts?

NannerSlug · « **Reply #44 on:** December 27, 2003, 08:59:16 pm »

some of my favorite ships are conjectual. the fed BB, the KCR, the Fed DNH, etc.. etc..

(fed pfs are conjectual too from what i understand)

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #45 on:** December 27, 2003, 10:39:47 pm »

It was for historical purposes, from what I understand. They had them available for player's campaigns. Lots of people complained that without competitive ships that certain races couldn't compete on level footing. Besides, it's cool to be able to fly all the designs regardless of what race you prefered.

There are lots of ships in SFC that are conjectural. Some have already been mentioned. The Klingon B10 is the only BB that's not and it wasn't completed until 2286, IIRC. Well after the date (about 20yrs) that the BBs are introduced in SFC. There were also very few of some of the Capitol ships ever produced. Only 3 Fed CVAs and 1 SCS. The SCS was also in 2286, or so.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:17:33 am »

That was one thing that I couldn't understand also. In SFB, their are really not all that many ships in the entire known region of the Galaxy. I mean, Capitol ships where few and far between and so where Crusiers. Wasn't an F&E Hex something like 500 Parcecs in Diameter? That just seem like waaaaay too large of an are of space for this time period. Even are Max Warp (which is like Warp 7 or 8 in TNG scale) it would take years still too even reach the Neutral Zones.

Don't get me wrong, I always have and always will like SFB, but wouldn't it be a little more logical (maybe even more realistic) if they made each F&E Hex more like 10 or 20 Light years or something? At least with such smaller areas of space you are dealing with (at least in Galactic terms) the low number of ships would have made a little better sense.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #50 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:35:32 am »

Ah, I see! I didn't know that they meant AREA. I thought they were saying Diameter of a F&E hex which just didn't make any sense too me. but you may be right that the actual distance has too be much shorter for the diameter of a F&E Hex. Heck, and we are not even considering 3 Dimensions in all this. The Milky Way does have some thickness (even at the edges of the Galaxy) and even though it is a fairly small percentage, I bet that 500 Area of Parsecs is probaby acounting for Y-Axis area as well.

And I agree aswell about the Parcecs. Although 22 Parcecs does make a lot better sense then 500 for diameter, I bet each Hex is actually more like 10 Parcecs in diameter. That would make Travel within the Federation much more practical.

Oh, and thanks for the link to the Warp Calculator. Very useful tool.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #51 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:52:30 am »

Actually, I just calculated that a Box Area (Length, Width, Height) of a cube that was 500 Parsecs in Area would mean that each side of the Cube would be roughly 8 Parsecs in length. If this is true, then each Strategic Hex in F&E/SFC must be more like 35 to 40 (20 would be ideal) Light years across Max! This makes much better sense for not only simple travel within Empires, but also makes sense when talking about early SFB wars. Like for example, the Fed-Romulan war was in Y40 to 46. Although the Original SFB Manual indicates that these warships used Sublight Engines, we all know here that this is just not feasable. I bet that these early warships must have been equiped with some type of Early Warp Engines much like we see on Enterprise where their top speed is something like Warp 4 or Warp 5 in TNG scale. Since the Fed-Rom War lasted like 6 years with lots of losses, I can't imagine the Hex's being any larger then 40 lightyears.

If people think F&E/SFC Strategic Hexes actually represent 500 Parsecs in Diameter, then they are freaken loons! It must be more like 35 or 40 Light years or something.

mathcubeguy · « **Reply #52 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:05:35 am »

Area is 2D though. Volume is 3D.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #53 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:07:57 am »

Not if you are talking about "Cubic Area". Etheir way, you know what I mean.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #54 on:** December 29, 2003, 12:38:13 pm »

I'm surprised that ADB hasn't changed that as the general rules have gone under some revision in the past few years. If they can add all those sub-rules, surely they can check their arithmetic, as it were. I would have thought someone would have pointed out the problem to them some time ago.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #55 on:** December 29, 2003, 01:53:51 pm »

Ya, but I think someone did in a Captains Log once. I can't remember what issue, but I recall that in one of the issues, someone discussed why a Fighter/PF couldn't move move beyond 1 hex distance (or was it that they were contained in the same Hex? Can't remember). ADB explained that each Hex was 500 Parsecs and that it would be too much space for a Fighter or PF too transverse with their limited Speed and Fuel Supply. But if I recall, ADB never did explain clearly in that Captains Log if a Hex was 500 parsecs in Diameter or Cubic Area. After going through the numbers and comparing with Warp Speed calculations, I just can not except that Each F&E/SFC hex is any larger then 40 Light Years across.

RazalYllib · « **Reply #56 on:** December 29, 2003, 06:32:45 pm »

This FnE vet chimes in--

Yes Virginia, Federation and Empire Hexes are 500 parsec from point to point on the Hex Map.

Each Turn in FnE a ship could move 6 hexes max in a 6 month time period 1 hex per month.

If memory serves, my buddy who introduced me to SFB many long years ago, made a written inquiry to ADB,
they never responded.

I received a nice letter from Steven Cole once on my term paper submission.
He would have printed it but it was not in the correct format, he also said the 'tactic' would
only work if the Fed was stupid.

It referanced a fleet engagement, Rom vs Fed. Big BPV, human players and a Neutral Ref.
Fed build around a CVA group.
Rom had forces built around RegalHawk and a single PF tender, they had a Falcon though.

Fed Player decides to Launch Fighters, Fighters release Drones, Fighters Rearm, repeat. Basically Drone platform.

Any way several ships started cloaked, including the Falcon, Flying backwards.
Was able to work may way close to CVA with the Cloaked Falcon and SpHa's, SkyHa's, stock.
Lost a couple on the way in though, but was able to manuver so the mauler was right in front of the CVA a couple of hexes, flying in reverse pointed straight at the CVA (with all the Fighters in the same space). I droped an NSM (gave the Ref the hex number, moved a couple hexes and uncloaked.

I used the Batteries to absorb the Fed Crunch and Lived, the Fed moved into NSM, which killed the Fighters and dented the Forward Shield. This was at the end of the Turn also.
Next Turn I charged Batteries and Mauled the CVA.
Needless to say the Feds were quite upset, but it worked.

Back to Topic:

Yes, Lyran experimented with Carriers, until the fateful day when the Captain was too quick to activate the ESG catching his own fighters in the ESG. If my synapses are firing correctly, I belive they used Klingon Fighters.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #57 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:03:09 pm »

With all deference to your F&E vet status, we both know it is says 500 parsecs. I for one looked it up in my own set of the rules or otherwise I'd be talking out my ass, right? Our conversation is that 500 parsecs is ridiculous and obviously wrong.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #58 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:08:59 pm »

BAH! ADB/Steve Cole is crazy if a F&E/SFC Hex is 500 Parsecs. I mean, if a ship goes at absolute Maximum Warp (Warp 9.2 TNG scale) it would still take the ship almost 2 years too travel that one hex. The ships Warp engines couldn't take that kind of punishment at max Warp so that means the ships must move around the Region at a "Cruise Warp" Speed (which would obviously be much slower). If the average "Cruise Warp" in the TOS era is something like Warp 7 (TOS scale, not TNG) then it would make sense for a ship moving in one of these hexes in about a Months time (if we were too assume that the Hexes are between 20 to 40 Light years across). It just doesn't work if these Hexes are anymore then 40 Light years across.

As for the Lyran CVA and Lyrans using fighters, I recall that the Lyrans do use Fighters, but not as much as other races (ESG made it a problem for Tactical uses). I also remember that someone once brought up the idea that Lyrans could have made Disruptor Armed Fighters so that they would be easier too use them with ESG's. ADB said it would have been not practical for the Lyrans because their was no real benefit out of it. I've come to think the reason why didn't allow the Disruptor Armed Fighters is because they didn't want too rewrite a lot of SSD's and SFB material. I think Disruptor armed fighters could be very useful too Lyrans.

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #59 on:** December 30, 2003, 10:05:17 pm »

I can remember the reason for not using Disruptor armed fighters was because the Lyran ships were already energy starved with E.S.G.s' that it wasn't feasible for them to have to power up fighters dizzies as well, so drones worked best. They just didn't jive well with the E.S.G.'s.

As for the 500 parsec hex thing.....of course it don't make sense it's Science Fiction not Science Non-Fiction.

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Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8734 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

FireSoul

DH123

Magnum357

jimmi7769

NannerSlug

Rod O'neal

Magnum357

DH123

jimmi7769

Lepton1

Magnum357

Magnum357

mathcubeguy

Magnum357

Lepton1

Magnum357

RazalYllib

Lepton1

Magnum357

jimmi7769

Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8734 times)