Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8735 times)

Lepton1 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:03:09 pm »

With all deference to your F&E vet status, we both know it is says 500 parsecs. I for one looked it up in my own set of the rules or otherwise I'd be talking out my ass, right? Our conversation is that 500 parsecs is ridiculous and obviously wrong.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:08:59 pm »

BAH! ADB/Steve Cole is crazy if a F&E/SFC Hex is 500 Parsecs. I mean, if a ship goes at absolute Maximum Warp (Warp 9.2 TNG scale) it would still take the ship almost 2 years too travel that one hex. The ships Warp engines couldn't take that kind of punishment at max Warp so that means the ships must move around the Region at a "Cruise Warp" Speed (which would obviously be much slower). If the average "Cruise Warp" in the TOS era is something like Warp 7 (TOS scale, not TNG) then it would make sense for a ship moving in one of these hexes in about a Months time (if we were too assume that the Hexes are between 20 to 40 Light years across). It just doesn't work if these Hexes are anymore then 40 Light years across.

As for the Lyran CVA and Lyrans using fighters, I recall that the Lyrans do use Fighters, but not as much as other races (ESG made it a problem for Tactical uses). I also remember that someone once brought up the idea that Lyrans could have made Disruptor Armed Fighters so that they would be easier too use them with ESG's. ADB said it would have been not practical for the Lyrans because their was no real benefit out of it. I've come to think the reason why didn't allow the Disruptor Armed Fighters is because they didn't want too rewrite a lot of SSD's and SFB material. I think Disruptor armed fighters could be very useful too Lyrans.

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2003, 10:05:17 pm »

I can remember the reason for not using Disruptor armed fighters was because the Lyran ships were already energy starved with E.S.G.s' that it wasn't feasible for them to have to power up fighters dizzies as well, so drones worked best. They just didn't jive well with the E.S.G.'s.

As for the 500 parsec hex thing.....of course it don't make sense it's Science Fiction not Science Non-Fiction.

762 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 31, 2003, 09:14:15 am »

Quote:

With all deference to your F&E vet status, we both know it is says 500 parsecs. I for one looked it up in my own set of the rules or otherwise I'd be talking out my ass, right? Our conversation is that 500 parsecs is ridiculous and obviously wrong.

Not to get all trek-nerdy but warp drive does not work according to linear distance from point a to point b. It "warps" the space to allow the starship to actually travel a shorter distance than would be possible in normal space, so using D = R*T for warp travel goes out the window somewhat.

Franz Josef's Tech Manual had the Federation proper as taking up most of the distance from the galactic rim to the core. Since ADB borrowed heavily from FJ's manual you can bet when Mr Cole says 500 parsecs he means it.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 31, 2003, 02:30:51 pm »

BAH! I still don't buy it. Ya, Warp Drive is suppose too shorten the distance between points, but Distance is not the problem here, its time. So what you are saying is that in this distance of 500 Parsecs, is that the Warp engines actually shorten the distance so that its easier too transverse. So if we use TOS scale velocities, a Contitution Class ship's Maximum Warp Capability of Warp 11.8 (Warp 9.2 in TNG scale) which results in a Velocity of 1649 c (c = Speed of Light). Now granted, The Ship isn't really going faster then the Speed of light, its just warping space too make distance short (or maybe its stretching the ships length much longer, depends on your preception), but this is still a problem with the 500 Parsecs idea.

So if Constitution Class ship's Max Velocity is 1649 c (Warp 11.8 TOS scale), and if one of these Hex's is roughly 2500 Light years across (assuming the 500 Parsec distance, it would still take the the Constitution over two years too transverse that distance. Now, you say that the Warp Engines actually shorten that distance soo it really isn't over 2500 Light years. Ok, if that is the Case then you would take 1649 c / 2500+ LY = 0.6596 Light Year Distance. So at Warp Speed, the Distance for the ship is suppose too be 0.6596 Light Years in Distance instead of 2500+ Light years in distance. Now that the Constitution has shorten the Length of the Distance of the 2 points, it would need too engage its Impulse Engines in order to cover that Minimized Distance. Even if the Constitution Engaged its Impulse Engines at 50% of the Speed of Light (and we already know that the closer you get to the speed of light, the more Time gets distorted (slows down) which in turn means the Impulse Engines would consume less fuel and force less thrust foo move) it would still take the Constitution over 2 years of time too transverse that kind of distance under this theory. And this is if the Constitution was at Maximum Possible Warp, I thought I heard that a Consitutions Cruise Warp Speed is something like Warp 7 maybe Warp 8 which are only a Fraction of the ships Max Speed. And this situation becomes even worse when dealing with Early Warp designs or god forbid the old debate about the Romulans and their "sub-light" ships (which still doesn't make any sense).

I'm sorry, but this is just another inconsistancy that Steve Cole didn't want too mess with and wanted too keep as close too the Starfleet Technical Manual as possible. Maybe he did this for legal reasons, I don't know. But I can't imagine anybody would sue him if he just Made the F&E Hexes a distance somewhere between 20 to 40 Light Years. Anymore and it just doesn't make any sense.

762 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 31, 2003, 02:41:06 pm »

You guys are thinking about this way too hard. It's 60's science fiction for pete's sake.

Toten · « **Reply #26 on:** December 31, 2003, 04:16:07 pm »

Wasnt this a game ?

mathcubeguy · « **Reply #27 on:** December 31, 2003, 06:31:31 pm »

At least its not using Parsec as a measurement of time...

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #30 on:** January 01, 2004, 10:06:10 pm »

I'd be willing to bet that when Cole and Petrick first came up with the size of a hex, 500 parsecs, they didn't even know how big that was. They just used the data that they had at hand. They actually are pretty concerned with the "science" in science fiction. I believe that SFB is where the explanation that the early Roms were Impulse powered only vessels applied to tactical warp capability, not strategic warp. Thus allowing them to make the trek across the neutral zone. Which, of course, was impossible at sublight speeds. I'm not 100% sure about that. It's just where I first remember seeing the explanation.

To get back to the origin of the post, ESGs and ftrs/drones are very difficult to employ in SFB. In SFC it's no prob at all since ESGs ignore friendlies. Lyrans with ftrs are pretty nasty, actually.

Potemkin · « **Reply #31 on:** January 02, 2004, 12:37:17 am »

In SFB ESG is friendly to no one. Ship, fighter, PF, station, planet, asteroid, or another ESG field.

You touch, you burn.

SFC made playing Lyrans very easy.

Po~

Magnum357 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 02, 2004, 02:35:48 am »

Ya, I'm suprised Taldern didn't try too put these stipulations in SFC because with my experience in playing against Lyrans in SFC, the best tactic is too just set the ESG to overload and ram the target too death. I suppose it would be too difficult too program this into an OP patch. Too bad.

Potemkin · « **Reply #33 on:** January 04, 2004, 11:47:30 pm »

I personnally like the Hellbore/ESG interaction. It is a good thing for the Lyrans! The ESG can provide a great deal of protection with it set at range zero!

What other weapon can give you a 5 to 1 increase in power (save phasers)?

And you can actually Ram your opponent!

Po~

762 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 06, 2004, 08:12:26 am »

It depends on what you read bruthuh Frey. I took that from an article in The Best of Trek which admittedly is not canon, although I believe I read something to the same effect in the TNG Tech Manual, which most definitely IS canon, having been used as a tech reference for the writers of that series.

I remember seeing something about that "time" thing that Pike said and IIRC the Great Bird himself said it was kind of a goof, written before anything regarding warp drive had been fleshed out.

DH123 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 27, 2003, 10:50:06 am »

Did the Lyrans ever build a CVA? I'm rummaging through my SSDs and cannot find one for it.

DH123 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 27, 2003, 11:11:11 am »

Found it in R5:Battleships. Of all places?

Toten · « **Reply #39 on:** December 27, 2003, 11:24:02 am »

DH,

I think with some checking everyone made pretty much everything. If not make one up. The C8Vk would be a fair comparison for whtat gets stripped to put the fighters on it.

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Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8735 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Lepton1

Magnum357

jimmi7769

762

Magnum357

762

Toten

mathcubeguy

Potemkin

jimmi7769

Rod O'neal

Potemkin

Magnum357

Potemkin

DH123

AdmiralFrey_XC

762

DH123

DH123

Toten

Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8735 times)