Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8733 times)

DH123 · « **on:** December 27, 2003, 10:50:06 am »

Did the Lyrans ever build a CVA? I'm rummaging through my SSDs and cannot find one for it.

DH123 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2003, 11:11:11 am »

Found it in R5:Battleships. Of all places?

Toten · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2003, 11:24:02 am »

DH,

I think with some checking everyone made pretty much everything. If not make one up. The C8Vk would be a fair comparison for whtat gets stripped to put the fighters on it.

FireSoul · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2003, 12:18:38 pm »

Quote:

Found it in R5:Battleships. Of all places?

The description for the L-CVA marks it as conjectural. One was never built.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2003, 07:50:29 pm »

Indeed! I never could understand why TFG were affraid of making "Conjectural" designs offical? Was it due too Gameplay Balance issues or due too the fact they might have had to rewrite some SFB history which means higher chance of rule conflicts?

NannerSlug · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2003, 08:59:16 pm »

some of my favorite ships are conjectual. the fed BB, the KCR, the Fed DNH, etc.. etc..

(fed pfs are conjectual too from what i understand)

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2003, 10:39:47 pm »

It was for historical purposes, from what I understand. They had them available for player's campaigns. Lots of people complained that without competitive ships that certain races couldn't compete on level footing. Besides, it's cool to be able to fly all the designs regardless of what race you prefered.

There are lots of ships in SFC that are conjectural. Some have already been mentioned. The Klingon B10 is the only BB that's not and it wasn't completed until 2286, IIRC. Well after the date (about 20yrs) that the BBs are introduced in SFC. There were also very few of some of the Capitol ships ever produced. Only 3 Fed CVAs and 1 SCS. The SCS was also in 2286, or so.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:17:33 am »

That was one thing that I couldn't understand also. In SFB, their are really not all that many ships in the entire known region of the Galaxy. I mean, Capitol ships where few and far between and so where Crusiers. Wasn't an F&E Hex something like 500 Parcecs in Diameter? That just seem like waaaaay too large of an are of space for this time period. Even are Max Warp (which is like Warp 7 or 8 in TNG scale) it would take years still too even reach the Neutral Zones.

Don't get me wrong, I always have and always will like SFB, but wouldn't it be a little more logical (maybe even more realistic) if they made each F&E Hex more like 10 or 20 Light years or something? At least with such smaller areas of space you are dealing with (at least in Galactic terms) the low number of ships would have made a little better sense.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:35:32 am »

Ah, I see! I didn't know that they meant AREA. I thought they were saying Diameter of a F&E hex which just didn't make any sense too me. but you may be right that the actual distance has too be much shorter for the diameter of a F&E Hex. Heck, and we are not even considering 3 Dimensions in all this. The Milky Way does have some thickness (even at the edges of the Galaxy) and even though it is a fairly small percentage, I bet that 500 Area of Parsecs is probaby acounting for Y-Axis area as well.

And I agree aswell about the Parcecs. Although 22 Parcecs does make a lot better sense then 500 for diameter, I bet each Hex is actually more like 10 Parcecs in diameter. That would make Travel within the Federation much more practical.

Oh, and thanks for the link to the Warp Calculator. Very useful tool.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:52:30 am »

Actually, I just calculated that a Box Area (Length, Width, Height) of a cube that was 500 Parsecs in Area would mean that each side of the Cube would be roughly 8 Parsecs in length. If this is true, then each Strategic Hex in F&E/SFC must be more like 35 to 40 (20 would be ideal) Light years across Max! This makes much better sense for not only simple travel within Empires, but also makes sense when talking about early SFB wars. Like for example, the Fed-Romulan war was in Y40 to 46. Although the Original SFB Manual indicates that these warships used Sublight Engines, we all know here that this is just not feasable. I bet that these early warships must have been equiped with some type of Early Warp Engines much like we see on Enterprise where their top speed is something like Warp 4 or Warp 5 in TNG scale. Since the Fed-Rom War lasted like 6 years with lots of losses, I can't imagine the Hex's being any larger then 40 lightyears.

If people think F&E/SFC Strategic Hexes actually represent 500 Parsecs in Diameter, then they are freaken loons! It must be more like 35 or 40 Light years or something.

mathcubeguy · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:05:35 am »

Area is 2D though. Volume is 3D.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:07:57 am »

Not if you are talking about "Cubic Area". Etheir way, you know what I mean.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 29, 2003, 12:38:13 pm »

I'm surprised that ADB hasn't changed that as the general rules have gone under some revision in the past few years. If they can add all those sub-rules, surely they can check their arithmetic, as it were. I would have thought someone would have pointed out the problem to them some time ago.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2003, 01:53:51 pm »

Ya, but I think someone did in a Captains Log once. I can't remember what issue, but I recall that in one of the issues, someone discussed why a Fighter/PF couldn't move move beyond 1 hex distance (or was it that they were contained in the same Hex? Can't remember). ADB explained that each Hex was 500 Parsecs and that it would be too much space for a Fighter or PF too transverse with their limited Speed and Fuel Supply. But if I recall, ADB never did explain clearly in that Captains Log if a Hex was 500 parsecs in Diameter or Cubic Area. After going through the numbers and comparing with Warp Speed calculations, I just can not except that Each F&E/SFC hex is any larger then 40 Light Years across.

RazalYllib · « **Reply #19 on:** December 29, 2003, 06:32:45 pm »

This FnE vet chimes in--

Yes Virginia, Federation and Empire Hexes are 500 parsec from point to point on the Hex Map.

Each Turn in FnE a ship could move 6 hexes max in a 6 month time period 1 hex per month.

If memory serves, my buddy who introduced me to SFB many long years ago, made a written inquiry to ADB,
they never responded.

I received a nice letter from Steven Cole once on my term paper submission.
He would have printed it but it was not in the correct format, he also said the 'tactic' would
only work if the Fed was stupid.

It referanced a fleet engagement, Rom vs Fed. Big BPV, human players and a Neutral Ref.
Fed build around a CVA group.
Rom had forces built around RegalHawk and a single PF tender, they had a Falcon though.

Fed Player decides to Launch Fighters, Fighters release Drones, Fighters Rearm, repeat. Basically Drone platform.

Any way several ships started cloaked, including the Falcon, Flying backwards.
Was able to work may way close to CVA with the Cloaked Falcon and SpHa's, SkyHa's, stock.
Lost a couple on the way in though, but was able to manuver so the mauler was right in front of the CVA a couple of hexes, flying in reverse pointed straight at the CVA (with all the Fighters in the same space). I droped an NSM (gave the Ref the hex number, moved a couple hexes and uncloaked.

I used the Batteries to absorb the Fed Crunch and Lived, the Fed moved into NSM, which killed the Fighters and dented the Forward Shield. This was at the end of the Turn also.
Next Turn I charged Batteries and Mauled the CVA.
Needless to say the Feds were quite upset, but it worked.

Back to Topic:

Yes, Lyran experimented with Carriers, until the fateful day when the Captain was too quick to activate the ESG catching his own fighters in the ESG. If my synapses are firing correctly, I belive they used Klingon Fighters.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:03:09 pm »

With all deference to your F&E vet status, we both know it is says 500 parsecs. I for one looked it up in my own set of the rules or otherwise I'd be talking out my ass, right? Our conversation is that 500 parsecs is ridiculous and obviously wrong.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:08:59 pm »

BAH! ADB/Steve Cole is crazy if a F&E/SFC Hex is 500 Parsecs. I mean, if a ship goes at absolute Maximum Warp (Warp 9.2 TNG scale) it would still take the ship almost 2 years too travel that one hex. The ships Warp engines couldn't take that kind of punishment at max Warp so that means the ships must move around the Region at a "Cruise Warp" Speed (which would obviously be much slower). If the average "Cruise Warp" in the TOS era is something like Warp 7 (TOS scale, not TNG) then it would make sense for a ship moving in one of these hexes in about a Months time (if we were too assume that the Hexes are between 20 to 40 Light years across). It just doesn't work if these Hexes are anymore then 40 Light years across.

As for the Lyran CVA and Lyrans using fighters, I recall that the Lyrans do use Fighters, but not as much as other races (ESG made it a problem for Tactical uses). I also remember that someone once brought up the idea that Lyrans could have made Disruptor Armed Fighters so that they would be easier too use them with ESG's. ADB said it would have been not practical for the Lyrans because their was no real benefit out of it. I've come to think the reason why didn't allow the Disruptor Armed Fighters is because they didn't want too rewrite a lot of SSD's and SFB material. I think Disruptor armed fighters could be very useful too Lyrans.

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2003, 10:05:17 pm »

I can remember the reason for not using Disruptor armed fighters was because the Lyran ships were already energy starved with E.S.G.s' that it wasn't feasible for them to have to power up fighters dizzies as well, so drones worked best. They just didn't jive well with the E.S.G.'s.

As for the 500 parsec hex thing.....of course it don't make sense it's Science Fiction not Science Non-Fiction.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 31, 2003, 02:30:51 pm »

BAH! I still don't buy it. Ya, Warp Drive is suppose too shorten the distance between points, but Distance is not the problem here, its time. So what you are saying is that in this distance of 500 Parsecs, is that the Warp engines actually shorten the distance so that its easier too transverse. So if we use TOS scale velocities, a Contitution Class ship's Maximum Warp Capability of Warp 11.8 (Warp 9.2 in TNG scale) which results in a Velocity of 1649 c (c = Speed of Light). Now granted, The Ship isn't really going faster then the Speed of light, its just warping space too make distance short (or maybe its stretching the ships length much longer, depends on your preception), but this is still a problem with the 500 Parsecs idea.

So if Constitution Class ship's Max Velocity is 1649 c (Warp 11.8 TOS scale), and if one of these Hex's is roughly 2500 Light years across (assuming the 500 Parsec distance, it would still take the the Constitution over two years too transverse that distance. Now, you say that the Warp Engines actually shorten that distance soo it really isn't over 2500 Light years. Ok, if that is the Case then you would take 1649 c / 2500+ LY = 0.6596 Light Year Distance. So at Warp Speed, the Distance for the ship is suppose too be 0.6596 Light Years in Distance instead of 2500+ Light years in distance. Now that the Constitution has shorten the Length of the Distance of the 2 points, it would need too engage its Impulse Engines in order to cover that Minimized Distance. Even if the Constitution Engaged its Impulse Engines at 50% of the Speed of Light (and we already know that the closer you get to the speed of light, the more Time gets distorted (slows down) which in turn means the Impulse Engines would consume less fuel and force less thrust foo move) it would still take the Constitution over 2 years of time too transverse that kind of distance under this theory. And this is if the Constitution was at Maximum Possible Warp, I thought I heard that a Consitutions Cruise Warp Speed is something like Warp 7 maybe Warp 8 which are only a Fraction of the ships Max Speed. And this situation becomes even worse when dealing with Early Warp designs or god forbid the old debate about the Romulans and their "sub-light" ships (which still doesn't make any sense).

I'm sorry, but this is just another inconsistancy that Steve Cole didn't want too mess with and wanted too keep as close too the Starfleet Technical Manual as possible. Maybe he did this for legal reasons, I don't know. But I can't imagine anybody would sue him if he just Made the F&E Hexes a distance somewhere between 20 to 40 Light Years. Anymore and it just doesn't make any sense.

762 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 31, 2003, 02:41:06 pm »

You guys are thinking about this way too hard. It's 60's science fiction for pete's sake.

Toten · « **Reply #26 on:** December 31, 2003, 04:16:07 pm »

Wasnt this a game ?

mathcubeguy · « **Reply #27 on:** December 31, 2003, 06:31:31 pm »

At least its not using Parsec as a measurement of time...

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #30 on:** January 01, 2004, 10:06:10 pm »

I'd be willing to bet that when Cole and Petrick first came up with the size of a hex, 500 parsecs, they didn't even know how big that was. They just used the data that they had at hand. They actually are pretty concerned with the "science" in science fiction. I believe that SFB is where the explanation that the early Roms were Impulse powered only vessels applied to tactical warp capability, not strategic warp. Thus allowing them to make the trek across the neutral zone. Which, of course, was impossible at sublight speeds. I'm not 100% sure about that. It's just where I first remember seeing the explanation.

To get back to the origin of the post, ESGs and ftrs/drones are very difficult to employ in SFB. In SFC it's no prob at all since ESGs ignore friendlies. Lyrans with ftrs are pretty nasty, actually.

Potemkin · « **Reply #31 on:** January 02, 2004, 12:37:17 am »

In SFB ESG is friendly to no one. Ship, fighter, PF, station, planet, asteroid, or another ESG field.

You touch, you burn.

SFC made playing Lyrans very easy.

Po~

Magnum357 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 02, 2004, 02:35:48 am »

Ya, I'm suprised Taldern didn't try too put these stipulations in SFC because with my experience in playing against Lyrans in SFC, the best tactic is too just set the ESG to overload and ram the target too death. I suppose it would be too difficult too program this into an OP patch. Too bad.

Potemkin · « **Reply #33 on:** January 04, 2004, 11:47:30 pm »

I personnally like the Hellbore/ESG interaction. It is a good thing for the Lyrans! The ESG can provide a great deal of protection with it set at range zero!

What other weapon can give you a 5 to 1 increase in power (save phasers)?

And you can actually Ram your opponent!

Po~

762 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 06, 2004, 08:12:26 am »

It depends on what you read bruthuh Frey. I took that from an article in The Best of Trek which admittedly is not canon, although I believe I read something to the same effect in the TNG Tech Manual, which most definitely IS canon, having been used as a tech reference for the writers of that series.

I remember seeing something about that "time" thing that Pike said and IIRC the Great Bird himself said it was kind of a goof, written before anything regarding warp drive had been fleshed out.

DH123 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 27, 2003, 10:50:06 am »

Did the Lyrans ever build a CVA? I'm rummaging through my SSDs and cannot find one for it.

DH123 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 27, 2003, 11:11:11 am »

Found it in R5:Battleships. Of all places?

Toten · « **Reply #39 on:** December 27, 2003, 11:24:02 am »

DH,

I think with some checking everyone made pretty much everything. If not make one up. The C8Vk would be a fair comparison for whtat gets stripped to put the fighters on it.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 27, 2003, 07:50:29 pm »

Indeed! I never could understand why TFG were affraid of making "Conjectural" designs offical? Was it due too Gameplay Balance issues or due too the fact they might have had to rewrite some SFB history which means higher chance of rule conflicts?

NannerSlug · « **Reply #44 on:** December 27, 2003, 08:59:16 pm »

some of my favorite ships are conjectual. the fed BB, the KCR, the Fed DNH, etc.. etc..

(fed pfs are conjectual too from what i understand)

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #45 on:** December 27, 2003, 10:39:47 pm »

It was for historical purposes, from what I understand. They had them available for player's campaigns. Lots of people complained that without competitive ships that certain races couldn't compete on level footing. Besides, it's cool to be able to fly all the designs regardless of what race you prefered.

There are lots of ships in SFC that are conjectural. Some have already been mentioned. The Klingon B10 is the only BB that's not and it wasn't completed until 2286, IIRC. Well after the date (about 20yrs) that the BBs are introduced in SFC. There were also very few of some of the Capitol ships ever produced. Only 3 Fed CVAs and 1 SCS. The SCS was also in 2286, or so.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #46 on:** December 28, 2003, 01:17:33 am »

That was one thing that I couldn't understand also. In SFB, their are really not all that many ships in the entire known region of the Galaxy. I mean, Capitol ships where few and far between and so where Crusiers. Wasn't an F&E Hex something like 500 Parcecs in Diameter? That just seem like waaaaay too large of an are of space for this time period. Even are Max Warp (which is like Warp 7 or 8 in TNG scale) it would take years still too even reach the Neutral Zones.

Don't get me wrong, I always have and always will like SFB, but wouldn't it be a little more logical (maybe even more realistic) if they made each F&E Hex more like 10 or 20 Light years or something? At least with such smaller areas of space you are dealing with (at least in Galactic terms) the low number of ships would have made a little better sense.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #50 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:35:32 am »

Ah, I see! I didn't know that they meant AREA. I thought they were saying Diameter of a F&E hex which just didn't make any sense too me. but you may be right that the actual distance has too be much shorter for the diameter of a F&E Hex. Heck, and we are not even considering 3 Dimensions in all this. The Milky Way does have some thickness (even at the edges of the Galaxy) and even though it is a fairly small percentage, I bet that 500 Area of Parsecs is probaby acounting for Y-Axis area as well.

And I agree aswell about the Parcecs. Although 22 Parcecs does make a lot better sense then 500 for diameter, I bet each Hex is actually more like 10 Parcecs in diameter. That would make Travel within the Federation much more practical.

Oh, and thanks for the link to the Warp Calculator. Very useful tool.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #51 on:** December 29, 2003, 02:52:30 am »

Actually, I just calculated that a Box Area (Length, Width, Height) of a cube that was 500 Parsecs in Area would mean that each side of the Cube would be roughly 8 Parsecs in length. If this is true, then each Strategic Hex in F&E/SFC must be more like 35 to 40 (20 would be ideal) Light years across Max! This makes much better sense for not only simple travel within Empires, but also makes sense when talking about early SFB wars. Like for example, the Fed-Romulan war was in Y40 to 46. Although the Original SFB Manual indicates that these warships used Sublight Engines, we all know here that this is just not feasable. I bet that these early warships must have been equiped with some type of Early Warp Engines much like we see on Enterprise where their top speed is something like Warp 4 or Warp 5 in TNG scale. Since the Fed-Rom War lasted like 6 years with lots of losses, I can't imagine the Hex's being any larger then 40 lightyears.

If people think F&E/SFC Strategic Hexes actually represent 500 Parsecs in Diameter, then they are freaken loons! It must be more like 35 or 40 Light years or something.

mathcubeguy · « **Reply #52 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:05:35 am »

Area is 2D though. Volume is 3D.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #53 on:** December 29, 2003, 03:07:57 am »

Not if you are talking about "Cubic Area". Etheir way, you know what I mean.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #54 on:** December 29, 2003, 12:38:13 pm »

I'm surprised that ADB hasn't changed that as the general rules have gone under some revision in the past few years. If they can add all those sub-rules, surely they can check their arithmetic, as it were. I would have thought someone would have pointed out the problem to them some time ago.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #55 on:** December 29, 2003, 01:53:51 pm »

Ya, but I think someone did in a Captains Log once. I can't remember what issue, but I recall that in one of the issues, someone discussed why a Fighter/PF couldn't move move beyond 1 hex distance (or was it that they were contained in the same Hex? Can't remember). ADB explained that each Hex was 500 Parsecs and that it would be too much space for a Fighter or PF too transverse with their limited Speed and Fuel Supply. But if I recall, ADB never did explain clearly in that Captains Log if a Hex was 500 parsecs in Diameter or Cubic Area. After going through the numbers and comparing with Warp Speed calculations, I just can not except that Each F&E/SFC hex is any larger then 40 Light Years across.

RazalYllib · « **Reply #56 on:** December 29, 2003, 06:32:45 pm »

This FnE vet chimes in--

Yes Virginia, Federation and Empire Hexes are 500 parsec from point to point on the Hex Map.

Each Turn in FnE a ship could move 6 hexes max in a 6 month time period 1 hex per month.

If memory serves, my buddy who introduced me to SFB many long years ago, made a written inquiry to ADB,
they never responded.

I received a nice letter from Steven Cole once on my term paper submission.
He would have printed it but it was not in the correct format, he also said the 'tactic' would
only work if the Fed was stupid.

It referanced a fleet engagement, Rom vs Fed. Big BPV, human players and a Neutral Ref.
Fed build around a CVA group.
Rom had forces built around RegalHawk and a single PF tender, they had a Falcon though.

Fed Player decides to Launch Fighters, Fighters release Drones, Fighters Rearm, repeat. Basically Drone platform.

Any way several ships started cloaked, including the Falcon, Flying backwards.
Was able to work may way close to CVA with the Cloaked Falcon and SpHa's, SkyHa's, stock.
Lost a couple on the way in though, but was able to manuver so the mauler was right in front of the CVA a couple of hexes, flying in reverse pointed straight at the CVA (with all the Fighters in the same space). I droped an NSM (gave the Ref the hex number, moved a couple hexes and uncloaked.

I used the Batteries to absorb the Fed Crunch and Lived, the Fed moved into NSM, which killed the Fighters and dented the Forward Shield. This was at the end of the Turn also.
Next Turn I charged Batteries and Mauled the CVA.
Needless to say the Feds were quite upset, but it worked.

Back to Topic:

Yes, Lyran experimented with Carriers, until the fateful day when the Captain was too quick to activate the ESG catching his own fighters in the ESG. If my synapses are firing correctly, I belive they used Klingon Fighters.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #57 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:03:09 pm »

With all deference to your F&E vet status, we both know it is says 500 parsecs. I for one looked it up in my own set of the rules or otherwise I'd be talking out my ass, right? Our conversation is that 500 parsecs is ridiculous and obviously wrong.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #58 on:** December 30, 2003, 06:08:59 pm »

BAH! ADB/Steve Cole is crazy if a F&E/SFC Hex is 500 Parsecs. I mean, if a ship goes at absolute Maximum Warp (Warp 9.2 TNG scale) it would still take the ship almost 2 years too travel that one hex. The ships Warp engines couldn't take that kind of punishment at max Warp so that means the ships must move around the Region at a "Cruise Warp" Speed (which would obviously be much slower). If the average "Cruise Warp" in the TOS era is something like Warp 7 (TOS scale, not TNG) then it would make sense for a ship moving in one of these hexes in about a Months time (if we were too assume that the Hexes are between 20 to 40 Light years across). It just doesn't work if these Hexes are anymore then 40 Light years across.

As for the Lyran CVA and Lyrans using fighters, I recall that the Lyrans do use Fighters, but not as much as other races (ESG made it a problem for Tactical uses). I also remember that someone once brought up the idea that Lyrans could have made Disruptor Armed Fighters so that they would be easier too use them with ESG's. ADB said it would have been not practical for the Lyrans because their was no real benefit out of it. I've come to think the reason why didn't allow the Disruptor Armed Fighters is because they didn't want too rewrite a lot of SSD's and SFB material. I think Disruptor armed fighters could be very useful too Lyrans.

jimmi7769 · « **Reply #59 on:** December 30, 2003, 10:05:17 pm »

I can remember the reason for not using Disruptor armed fighters was because the Lyran ships were already energy starved with E.S.G.s' that it wasn't feasible for them to have to power up fighters dizzies as well, so drones worked best. They just didn't jive well with the E.S.G.'s.

As for the 500 parsec hex thing.....of course it don't make sense it's Science Fiction not Science Non-Fiction.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #61 on:** December 31, 2003, 02:30:51 pm »

BAH! I still don't buy it. Ya, Warp Drive is suppose too shorten the distance between points, but Distance is not the problem here, its time. So what you are saying is that in this distance of 500 Parsecs, is that the Warp engines actually shorten the distance so that its easier too transverse. So if we use TOS scale velocities, a Contitution Class ship's Maximum Warp Capability of Warp 11.8 (Warp 9.2 in TNG scale) which results in a Velocity of 1649 c (c = Speed of Light). Now granted, The Ship isn't really going faster then the Speed of light, its just warping space too make distance short (or maybe its stretching the ships length much longer, depends on your preception), but this is still a problem with the 500 Parsecs idea.

So if Constitution Class ship's Max Velocity is 1649 c (Warp 11.8 TOS scale), and if one of these Hex's is roughly 2500 Light years across (assuming the 500 Parsec distance, it would still take the the Constitution over two years too transverse that distance. Now, you say that the Warp Engines actually shorten that distance soo it really isn't over 2500 Light years. Ok, if that is the Case then you would take 1649 c / 2500+ LY = 0.6596 Light Year Distance. So at Warp Speed, the Distance for the ship is suppose too be 0.6596 Light Years in Distance instead of 2500+ Light years in distance. Now that the Constitution has shorten the Length of the Distance of the 2 points, it would need too engage its Impulse Engines in order to cover that Minimized Distance. Even if the Constitution Engaged its Impulse Engines at 50% of the Speed of Light (and we already know that the closer you get to the speed of light, the more Time gets distorted (slows down) which in turn means the Impulse Engines would consume less fuel and force less thrust foo move) it would still take the Constitution over 2 years of time too transverse that kind of distance under this theory. And this is if the Constitution was at Maximum Possible Warp, I thought I heard that a Consitutions Cruise Warp Speed is something like Warp 7 maybe Warp 8 which are only a Fraction of the ships Max Speed. And this situation becomes even worse when dealing with Early Warp designs or god forbid the old debate about the Romulans and their "sub-light" ships (which still doesn't make any sense).

I'm sorry, but this is just another inconsistancy that Steve Cole didn't want too mess with and wanted too keep as close too the Starfleet Technical Manual as possible. Maybe he did this for legal reasons, I don't know. But I can't imagine anybody would sue him if he just Made the F&E Hexes a distance somewhere between 20 to 40 Light Years. Anymore and it just doesn't make any sense.

762 · « **Reply #62 on:** December 31, 2003, 02:41:06 pm »

You guys are thinking about this way too hard. It's 60's science fiction for pete's sake.

Toten · « **Reply #63 on:** December 31, 2003, 04:16:07 pm »

Wasnt this a game ?

mathcubeguy · « **Reply #64 on:** December 31, 2003, 06:31:31 pm »

At least its not using Parsec as a measurement of time...

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #67 on:** January 01, 2004, 10:06:10 pm »

I'd be willing to bet that when Cole and Petrick first came up with the size of a hex, 500 parsecs, they didn't even know how big that was. They just used the data that they had at hand. They actually are pretty concerned with the "science" in science fiction. I believe that SFB is where the explanation that the early Roms were Impulse powered only vessels applied to tactical warp capability, not strategic warp. Thus allowing them to make the trek across the neutral zone. Which, of course, was impossible at sublight speeds. I'm not 100% sure about that. It's just where I first remember seeing the explanation.

To get back to the origin of the post, ESGs and ftrs/drones are very difficult to employ in SFB. In SFC it's no prob at all since ESGs ignore friendlies. Lyrans with ftrs are pretty nasty, actually.

Potemkin · « **Reply #68 on:** January 02, 2004, 12:37:17 am »

In SFB ESG is friendly to no one. Ship, fighter, PF, station, planet, asteroid, or another ESG field.

You touch, you burn.

SFC made playing Lyrans very easy.

Po~

Magnum357 · « **Reply #69 on:** January 02, 2004, 02:35:48 am »

Ya, I'm suprised Taldern didn't try too put these stipulations in SFC because with my experience in playing against Lyrans in SFC, the best tactic is too just set the ESG to overload and ram the target too death. I suppose it would be too difficult too program this into an OP patch. Too bad.

Potemkin · « **Reply #70 on:** January 04, 2004, 11:47:30 pm »

I personnally like the Hellbore/ESG interaction. It is a good thing for the Lyrans! The ESG can provide a great deal of protection with it set at range zero!

What other weapon can give you a 5 to 1 increase in power (save phasers)?

And you can actually Ram your opponent!

Po~

762 · « **Reply #73 on:** January 06, 2004, 08:12:26 am »

It depends on what you read bruthuh Frey. I took that from an article in The Best of Trek which admittedly is not canon, although I believe I read something to the same effect in the TNG Tech Manual, which most definitely IS canon, having been used as a tech reference for the writers of that series.

I remember seeing something about that "time" thing that Pike said and IIRC the Great Bird himself said it was kind of a goof, written before anything regarding warp drive had been fleshed out.

News:

Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8733 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

DH123

DH123

Toten

FireSoul

DH123

Magnum357

jimmi7769

NannerSlug

Rod O'neal

Magnum357

DH123

jimmi7769

Lepton1

Magnum357

Magnum357

mathcubeguy

Magnum357

Lepton1

Magnum357

RazalYllib

Lepton1

Magnum357

jimmi7769

762

Magnum357

762

Toten

mathcubeguy

Potemkin

jimmi7769

Rod O'neal

Potemkin

Magnum357

Potemkin

DH123

AdmiralFrey_XC

762

DH123

DH123

Toten

FireSoul

DH123

Magnum357

jimmi7769

NannerSlug

Rod O'neal

Magnum357

DH123

jimmi7769

Lepton1

Magnum357

Magnum357

mathcubeguy

Magnum357

Lepton1

Magnum357

RazalYllib

Lepton1

Magnum357

jimmi7769

762

Magnum357

762

Toten

mathcubeguy

Potemkin

jimmi7769

Rod O'neal

Potemkin

Magnum357

Potemkin

DH123

AdmiralFrey_XC

762

Topic: SFB Gurus: Lyran CVA? (Read 8733 times)